Looks like this is likely in the women's race and maybe the men's.

This says it's the Men's procedures, but it's where the link on the women's page (https://getsomemaction.com/tournaments/?...ath=wbball) takes you, so they're likely the same for men's and women's.

Quote:MAC Basketball Tiebreakers
Tiebreaker Procedure
Ties in winning percentage, and thus for Tournament seeding positions shall be broken according to the following.

Between TWO teams:
A. Head-to-head competition
B. Winning percentage* vs. ranked conference teams (top to bottom vs. common opponents regardless of the number of times played)
C. Coin flip
* - Winning percentage is used instead of record because of situations where teams do not play each other the same number of times. Therefore, a team that is 1-0 (1.000) would win the tiebreaker over a team that is 1-1 (.500).

For MULTIPLE (3 or more) team ties
E. Total won-lost record of games played among the tied teams
F. Two (2)-team tie-breaker procedure goes into effect (refer to A).

NOTE: Once a three-team tie has been reduced to two teams, the two-team tiebreaker will go into effect.

* - Winning percentage is used instead of record because of situations where teams do not play each other the same number of times. Therefore, a team that is 1-0 (1.000) would win the tiebreaker over a team that is 1-1 (.500)

https://getsomemaction.com/sports/2023/2...32059.aspx

Now, can anyone explain how the "Winning percentage* vs. ranked conference teams" tiebreaker is calculated?

Does it look at the winning percentage vs. the best team first and if one team has that tiebreaker it ends...or does it look at the winning percentage of all the teams played in totality?

So for the women's side, say TU beats BG and BG and Ball State are tied for second...head to head is thrown out as they each one once...so do they then look at each teams winning percentage against TU alone...BG would be 1-1 or .500 while Ball State would be 0-2 or .000...so BG would get the second seed? Or is it something else entirely involving all the teams??

(03-02-2023 07:35 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Now, can anyone explain how the "Winning percentage* vs. ranked conference teams" tiebreaker is calculated?

Does it look at the winning percentage vs. the best team first and if one team has that tiebreaker it ends...or does it look at the winning percentage of all the teams played in totality? ...

Don't know, but that's what "top to bottom" reads like.

That would explain why there's not any other tie breakers after that, because they'd need to have identical performance against each ranked opponent or group of opponents in order for it to get past the "top to bottom" process.

(03-02-2023 07:22 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This says it's the Men's procedures, but it's where the link on the women's page (https://getsomemaction.com/tournaments/?...ath=wbball) takes you, so they're likely the same for men's and women's.

Quote:MAC Basketball Tiebreakers
Tiebreaker Procedure
Ties in winning percentage, and thus for Tournament seeding positions shall be broken according to the following.

Between TWO teams:
A. Head-to-head competition
B. Winning percentage* vs. ranked conference teams (top to bottom vs. common opponents regardless of the number of times played)
C. Coin flip
* - Winning percentage is used instead of record because of situations where teams do not play each other the same number of times. Therefore, a team that is 1-0 (1.000) would win the tiebreaker over a team that is 1-1 (.500).

For MULTIPLE (3 or more) team ties
E. Total won-lost record of games played among the tied teams
F. Two (2)-team tie-breaker procedure goes into effect (refer to A).

NOTE: Once a three-team tie has been reduced to two teams, the two-team tiebreaker will go into effect.

* - Winning percentage is used instead of record because of situations where teams do not play each other the same number of times. Therefore, a team that is 1-0 (1.000) would win the tiebreaker over a team that is 1-1 (.500)

https://getsomemaction.com/sports/2023/2...32059.aspx

Thanks for the information.

(03-02-2023 07:35 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Now, can anyone explain how the "Winning percentage* vs. ranked conference teams" tiebreaker is calculated?

Does it look at the winning percentage vs. the best team first and if one team has that tiebreaker it ends.

Yes, that's precisely how it's calculated. If both teams have the same record against the top seed then it moves to record against the 2nd seed and so on.

Question? if you have a 4 way tie with these results A 3-1 B 3-3 C 2-2 D 1-4 would team A get the top spot, and team D get the last spot and then you would go to the 2 team tiebreaker for teams B and C?

or Would A get the top spot and then you would go to the 3 team tiebreaker which might now be C 2-1 B 2-2 D 1-2 so that now team C would get top spot of these 3 and then you would go to the two team tiebreaker?

(03-02-2023 11:19 AM)DICK Wrote:  Question? if you have a 4 way tie with these results A 3-1 B 3-3 C 2-2 D 1-4 would team A get the top spot, and team D get the last spot and then you would go to the 2 team tiebreaker for teams B and C?

or Would A get the top spot and then you would go to the 3 team tiebreaker which might now be C 2-1 B 2-2 D 1-2 so that now team C would get top spot of these 3 and then you would go to the two team tiebreaker?

From my experience in researching how you determine tiebreakers among multiple teams when I was a fantasy football commissioner, when one of the teams wins that tiebreaker, they usually throw the remaining teams back in the tiebreaker and start back at tiebreaker #1. Not sure if the MAC follows this.

(03-02-2023 11:34 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 11:19 AM)DICK Wrote:  Question? if you have a 4 way tie with these results A 3-1 B 3-3 C 2-2 D 1-4 would team A get the top spot, and team D get the last spot and then you would go to the 2 team tiebreaker for teams B and C?

or Would A get the top spot and then you would go to the 3 team tiebreaker which might now be C 2-1 B 2-2 D 1-2 so that now team C would get top spot of these 3 and then you would go to the two team tiebreaker?

From my experience in researching how you determine tiebreakers among multiple teams when I was a fantasy football commissioner, when one of the teams wins that tiebreaker, they usually throw the remaining teams back in the tiebreaker and start back at tiebreaker #1. Not sure if the MAC follows this.

I seem to remember it being applied the way Tom describes in previous seasons as well.

(03-02-2023 12:22 PM)Eagle66 Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 11:34 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 11:19 AM)DICK Wrote:  Question? if you have a 4 way tie with these results A 3-1 B 3-3 C 2-2 D 1-4 would team A get the top spot, and team D get the last spot and then you would go to the 2 team tiebreaker for teams B and C?

or Would A get the top spot and then you would go to the 3 team tiebreaker which might now be C 2-1 B 2-2 D 1-2 so that now team C would get top spot of these 3 and then you would go to the two team tiebreaker?

From my experience in researching how you determine tiebreakers among multiple teams when I was a fantasy football commissioner, when one of the teams wins that tiebreaker, they usually throw the remaining teams back in the tiebreaker and start back at tiebreaker #1. Not sure if the MAC follows this.

I seem to remember it being applied the way Tom describes in previous seasons as well.

Thanks again.

(03-02-2023 12:22 PM)Eagle66 Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 11:34 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 11:19 AM)DICK Wrote:  Question? if you have a 4 way tie with these results A 3-1 B 3-3 C 2-2 D 1-4 would team A get the top spot, and team D get the last spot and then you would go to the 2 team tiebreaker for teams B and C?

or Would A get the top spot and then you would go to the 3 team tiebreaker which might now be C 2-1 B 2-2 D 1-2 so that now team C would get top spot of these 3 and then you would go to the two team tiebreaker?

From my experience in researching how you determine tiebreakers among multiple teams when I was a fantasy football commissioner, when one of the teams wins that tiebreaker, they usually throw the remaining teams back in the tiebreaker and start back at tiebreaker #1. Not sure if the MAC follows this.

I seem to remember it being applied the way Tom describes in previous seasons as well.

Yeah, because if you have 3 teams tied and Team 1 wins the tiebreaker, you can't leave the others at 2 and 3 because Team 3 might have actually beaten Team 2 in a head to head matchup. So you go back to that being the first tiebreaker.

Actually, the first tiebreaker scenario that I laid out is what the MAC used for the women's tournament. There was a 4 way tie for spots 7-10. EMU went 4-1, Miami 2-2,
Buffalo 3-3, and WM 1-4. So they gave Eastern the 7 spot and Western the #10 spot. Since Miami and Buffalo were both had the same winning percentage, they went through the two team tiebreaker. Both teams were 1-1 vs each other. So then you look to see who had the best win. Miami's best win was against #4 Kent. Buffalo's best win was against #2 Bowling Green. So the Bulls got the valuable #8 seed and Miami got the worthless #9 seed.

Thanks for your responses, but they were wrong, lol.

(03-05-2023 05:05 PM)DICK Wrote:  Actually, the first tiebreaker scenario that I laid out is what the MAC used for the women's tournament. There was a 4 way tie for spots 7-10. EMU went 4-1, Miami 2-2,
Buffalo 3-3, and WM 1-4. So they gave Eastern the 7 spot and Western the #10 spot. Since Miami and Buffalo were both had the same winning percentage, they went through the two team tiebreaker. Both teams were 1-1 vs each other. So then you look to see who had the best win. Miami's best win was against #4 Kent. Buffalo's best win was against #2 Bowling Green. So the Bulls got the valuable #8 seed and Miami got the worthless #9 seed.

Thanks for your responses, but they were wrong, lol.

So, in other words, they followed the rules as they are written down, not an additional rule people speculated might be in force.