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Kent State vs. Akron
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 08:48 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Right. Nothing has changed. If Kent State makes the finals thats 27 wins and probably not a breath a hope. That takes nothing away from the season because it really is no surprise. But the real kick in the nards would be if the Flashes reach 26 or 27 wins and get locked out of the NIT

Right, I don't see then getting in the NIT, either. It would be one of those other tournaments and it would be OK with me if they passed on that. Of course, let's just hope they make the whole discussion moot by winning the MAC tournament. They have as good a chance as anyone and better than most to do that, especially if their focus is on defense, defense and more defense.
03-04-2023 10:28 AM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-03-2023 09:11 PM)ksu315 Wrote:  That ref is named Jon Floyd. played at BG and is an awful ref. His arrogance gets in the way and he believes the 6k there tonight were there to see him.

Go watch last 10 seconds of regulation of last nights CSU- Robert Morris game. At buzzer with game tied and the ball 80 feet away from basketball he call a foul on a heave. would have been 3 shots. thankfully they went to replay and the play was after the buzzer.

Well 6000 people last night let him know that he sucks at his job.
03-04-2023 11:21 AM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
A few thoughts:

1) The refs sucked. It was the worst reffed game I've seen in a long time. It was bad before the Jacobs non-foul and the Jacobs non-foul was just the highlight. They regularly flipped by any touch is a foul to you had to murder someone to get a call and they frankly almost lost total control of the game in OT when they swallowed their whistles on an Akron possession with 3 minutes left. Payton got run over (no call), so Payton gets up and lunges at an Akron player jacking a shot and knocks him over (no call) and then loose ball fouls on both times under the basket (no call). Then back to the touch fouls. It was amazing. By the end of the game, Akron players were trying to force any touch on their shots to try to get a call to a comical point.

2) Which goes to Senderoff's T. Frankly, he had a right to be pissed because it didn't look like Jacobs committed a foul, but the other thing was Carry was being fouled all the way up the court and fouled on his shot as the buzzer expired. If Jacobs committeed a foul, Carry was fouled as well. Now, I will give Coach Sullinger credit for keeping Sendy away from the refs and keeping a cool head to keep things from getting worse. Sullinger said after the game, his dad always said "the whistles are the reality" and I think his calm presence helped the team focus. I will also point out that the Akron coach was freaking out over calls in OT and didn't get himself a T, so you take that for what it is.

3) I will also say that Akron got bounces in this game that Kent did not. Just luck. For example, Hornbeak in the closing minutes made a nice move and shot to see it dribble off the rim (90% of the time that falls in), meanwhile, Akron got a few rolls.

4) Carry was determined to win and that was great to see. It was as if he wanted to cement his legacy as one of the great Kent players last night.

5) Payton was practicing foul shots before the start of the second half as if he knew the game would come down to free throws. 4 for 4 from the line and we needed everyone of them.

6) Way for the entire team to fight back against **** reffing and to win the game. They could have easily folded at the end of regulation and they instead came out to win. I was really impressed with the intensity.

Possibly Dumb question: Payton wasn't honored on Senior Night, but he is a senior, right? Anyone know why?
03-04-2023 11:37 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
This is Payton's 4th year playing college ball, but if I understand correctly, he gets another year if he wants it because of the "free" COVID year. I assume he plans to come back, or else he would have been honored.
03-04-2023 11:47 AM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 11:47 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  This is Payton's 4th year playing college ball, but if I understand correctly, he gets another year if he wants it because of the "free" COVID year. I assume he plans to come back, or else he would have been honored.

Well that would be awesome because he has turned into quite the star. Obviously the team will miss Carry, Jacobs and Thomas, but a core of Gio, Sullinger, Rollins, Hornbeak and Payton would be fun to watch.
03-04-2023 11:52 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 11:52 AM)bopol Wrote:  
(03-04-2023 11:47 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  This is Payton's 4th year playing college ball, but if I understand correctly, he gets another year if he wants it because of the "free" COVID year. I assume he plans to come back, or else he would have been honored.

Well that would be awesome because he has turned into quite the star. Obviously the team will miss Carry, Jacobs and Thomas, but a core of Gio, Sullinger, Rollins, Hornbeak and Payton would be fun to watch.

Jacobs and Carry will definitely be sorely missed, but the cupboard will by no means be completely bare. In addition to those names mentioned above there is also Davis, and Carpenter is intriguing. I have no idea what to think about Odusipe.
03-04-2023 12:00 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Good post bopol. I agree with pretty much everything you said. The comment on Sullinger's dad is interesting to me. I sat near JJ at a particularly poorly officiated game last year. He was very quiet through the whole game until Jalen got hammered for no call and was visibly upset. That's when JJ got up and started yelling but he was yelling encouragement like "Can't do anything about it, move on, stay focused". I'm not sure I've ever witnessed a parent take that mature approach to their kid getting screwed by the refs. It was pretty cool.

Your point about the T is spot on. Not only on that last drive by Carry but for the last 5 or 6 minutes of regulation Castenada had 4 fouls and they were letting him get away with hand checking Carry on every damn play. You certainly argue that you don't want to let a touch foul remove a star from the game or decide the game on a last second play... But that all goes out the window on that last play because they had literally just fouled Jacobs out and decided the end of regulation on a (no) touch foul.

You're also right that it wasn't just the last call it was a terrible job all night. Akron was in the double bonus somewhere around 10 to go in the second half. We didn't get into the double bonus until 2 minutes into OT. There were many absurd calls. A charge on Jacobs. A loose ball foul on Payton for falling on top of the guy who pulled him down from behind on a box out. A goaltend on Thomas that was very much not a goaltend. The scoreboard operator was clearly upset about that one because they played it like 5 times haha.

Lastly the thing that still irks me the most is the fact that the ref that made the call refused to look up at the scoreboard or go over to the monitor. He just stood at mid court with a smug-ass look on his face. If he saw the replay I'd like to believe he would realize he needs to give Sendy an extremely long leash because he just absolutely effed him. Instead he compounded his mistake by giving a T.

But hey, it feels like we beat Akron twice last night. So I'll take that.
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2023 12:23 PM by anti-zip.)
03-04-2023 12:23 PM
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
What’s especially frightening is an officiating crew of Bill Ek (NCAA Tournament and MAC veteran), Chris Beaver (NCAA Sweet 16) and John Floyd (Big Ten, MAC) is as good as Kent State/Akron on a Friday night on ESPNU are ever going to get.
03-04-2023 12:50 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 12:23 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  That's when JJ got up and started yelling but he was yelling encouragement like "Can't do anything about it, move on, stay focused". I'm not sure I've ever witnessed a parent take that mature approach to their kid getting screwed by the refs. It was pretty cool.

That is awesome, thank you for sharing. If I was teaching a how to be a fan in the stands course to parents, I would ask to use this example.

In another life my dad and I had our moments at the MAC Center, the Q and other venues in which the Flashes played. But now that I have some young fans in tote, I try to practice what I preach.

Go Flashes!
03-04-2023 02:01 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 11:52 AM)bopol Wrote:  
(03-04-2023 11:47 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  This is Payton's 4th year playing college ball, but if I understand correctly, he gets another year if he wants it because of the "free" COVID year. I assume he plans to come back, or else he would have been honored.

Well that would be awesome because he has turned into quite the star. Obviously the team will miss Carry, Jacobs and Thomas, but a core of Gio, Sullinger, Rollins, Hornbeak and Payton would be fun to watch.

Of course no one knows who stays and goes with he current state of college basketball, but if Payton and Sullinger both stick around they could become an extremely fun duo to watch. Last night in the second half when we were seemingly needing a spark there was three possessions (it felt like consecutive possessions but I could be wrong on that) where Sully hit a three (his first shot attempt of the game I believe) then he drove twice and flipped alley-oops to Payton. Crushed Akron's momentum and got the place absolutely jacked.

I'll be curious if either of them wind up as MAC 6th man of the year. Huge advantage to have two guys like that coming off the bench.
03-04-2023 03:18 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
One other thing I meant to mention. Props to everyone involved in dealing with the ticket fiasco. I expected yesterday to be a total s#itshow but it really wasn't. Got in real quick, didn't witness any issues with people being in other people's seats. Really seems like they had a mess to deal with and they handled it well.
03-04-2023 08:27 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 11:47 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  This is Payton's 4th year playing college ball, but if I understand correctly, he gets another year if he wants it because of the "free" COVID year. I assume he plans to come back, or else he would have been honored.

Sounds right ... same with Gio!!!
03-05-2023 04:54 AM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Just to add a few thoughts:

Muskrat: Great. I think if one aspect of VCD's game improves he could be a threat. He is a great athlete that works hard, but I can't think of anything he really excels at yet. The other guys are a bit wait and see. Did any of the redshirts improve enough to be contributors, wait and see?

anti-zip: Yep, those were other bad calls. Also, Hornbeak's 3rd at the end of regulation stuck out as well. As far as I'm concerned, Sullingers are basketball royalty in Ohio.

JimJoyce: maybe it was a bad mix of a crew. The problem was the massive inconsistency in the calls. Carry was getting handchecked the entire game, but tickytack stuff was being called on the other end.

Finally, the crowd seemed to have Akron legit intimidated in OT. When it turned from cheering and razzing to pissed off, the anger was affected Akron and forced a TO in OT to calm their nerves.
03-05-2023 11:23 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 10:28 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(03-04-2023 08:48 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Right. Nothing has changed. If Kent State makes the finals thats 27 wins and probably not a breath a hope. That takes nothing away from the season because it really is no surprise. But the real kick in the nards would be if the Flashes reach 26 or 27 wins and get locked out of the NIT

Right, I don't see then getting in the NIT, either. It would be one of those other tournaments and it would be OK with me if they passed on that. Of course, let's just hope they make the whole discussion moot by winning the MAC tournament. They have as good a chance as anyone and better than most to do that, especially if their focus is on defense, defense and more defense.

Frankly, I believe they have a GREAT shot at making the NIT ... and would be shocked if they didn't.
03-05-2023 01:08 PM
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luckyflash Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 12:00 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(03-04-2023 11:52 AM)bopol Wrote:  
(03-04-2023 11:47 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  This is Payton's 4th year playing college ball, but if I understand correctly, he gets another year if he wants it because of the "free" COVID year. I assume he plans to come back, or else he would have been honored.

Well that would be awesome because he has turned into quite the star. Obviously the team will miss Carry, Jacobs and Thomas, but a core of Gio, Sullinger, Rollins, Hornbeak and Payton would be fun to watch.

Jacobs and Carry will definitely be sorely missed, but the cupboard will by no means be completely bare. In addition to those names mentioned above there is also Davis, and Carpenter is intriguing. I have no idea what to think about Odusipe.

Moss is the one who you will be most impressed with next year.
03-05-2023 08:48 PM
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luckyflash Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-04-2023 12:50 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  What’s especially frightening is an officiating crew of Bill Ek (NCAA Tournament and MAC veteran), Chris Beaver (NCAA Sweet 16) and John Floyd (Big Ten, MAC) is as good as Kent State/Akron on a Friday night on ESPNU are ever going to get.

+1
03-05-2023 08:49 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-05-2023 01:08 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(03-04-2023 10:28 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(03-04-2023 08:48 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Right. Nothing has changed. If Kent State makes the finals thats 27 wins and probably not a breath a hope. That takes nothing away from the season because it really is no surprise. But the real kick in the nards would be if the Flashes reach 26 or 27 wins and get locked out of the NIT

Right, I don't see then getting in the NIT, either. It would be one of those other tournaments and it would be OK with me if they passed on that. Of course, let's just hope they make the whole discussion moot by winning the MAC tournament. They have as good a chance as anyone and better than most to do that, especially if their focus is on defense, defense and more defense.

Frankly, I believe they have a GREAT shot at making the NIT ... and would be shocked if they didn't.

I hope you are right, but I hope even more so that we never find out.
03-06-2023 07:02 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
I do want to say one more thing about the head scratching 3 point foul call because it hasn't been sitting well with me. So the shot went up, missed, was rebounded, then the foul was called. Because it came so late they had to go to the monitor to figure out how much time to add back. The review took longer than you'd expect, probably because they were having a hard time figuring out when the foul occured since there was no contact (which of course makes it weirder that the ref who called it wasn't consulted at the monitor). Had the call not been made, Kent likely gets fouled and has two free throws to try to push it out to a 5 point lead with somewhere around 1 or 2 seconds left.

Maybe I'm just getting cynical with age, or maybe being a baseball fan through the steroid era, Astros, then the sticky stuff has made me that way... But anymore when I'm watching sports I constantly have the question in the back of my head "Is what I'm watching actually legitimate?". Now with sports gambling being so big, it's made it impossible for everyone to not be aware of the spread... Which in this case was Kent by 4.5. So if that whistle doesn't happen we likely have 2 free throws to decide if we cover. Since the call was so inexplicably it's hard to not raise an eyebrow at that. Then the same guy immediately hits Sendy with a tech after the buzzer meaning Kent has to outscore Akron by 7 in OT to cover (we did).

I decided to dig through the play logs of the last 10 minutes and OT tonight.

Over the course of the last 10 minutes, the average score diff was +3.1 Kent. The average score when Kent was called for a foul was +4.25 Kent. The average score when Akron was called for a foul was +2.67 Kent.

In OT the average diff was +2.1 Kent. The average score when Kent was called for a foul was +3.25 Kent. The average score when Akron was called for a foul was +2.0 Kent (+1.4 Kent if you take out the intentional take foul with us up 5 at the end).

So the picture here is pretty clear. For the last 15 minutes of the game, Kent fouls came when the lead was near the spread. Akron fouls came when Kent was further away from the spread. Over the last 15 minutes, only 1 of Kent's 8 fouls came when we were NOT within 2 points of covering. On the other hand, 5 of Akron's 9 fouls came when we were NOT within 2 points of covering (5 of 8 if you remove the intentional foul at the end).

Sure you could make the obvious statement that we ended up covering. We did get a foul call at 0:38 seconds to put us up 5. And Akron did not get a foul on their next possession. However, as I recall there was no possibility for them to because that possession was the one where Castaneda shot a three way off balance trying to jump into a guy but still didn't get near him. Calling that would've been more egregious than the one at the end of regulation. Also, with Kent up 6 we were called for a foul with 10 seconds left and had Akron not split the pair we wouldn't have covered. I can't remember that call at all, so I can't remember if it was a good call or not.

Anyways, I acknowledge this could be nothing. I could be reading too much into nothing. I should add I'm not a betting man and had no money on this game. I just find it impossible to not think about this stuff now, especially when I see something really hard to explain (like how a man who is paid money to officiate basketball calls that foul in that spot). The sad reality is s#it is definitely going to happen if it isn't already. There are 363 D1 basketball teams. No way they can closely police all the games. Hell, the NBA couldn't even keep a ref from fixing games. And at this level it's going to be much more possible because the refs and players make much less money, and there's little media coverage. Hell, look at the XFL. I watched the first game and was pretty surprised to see how poorly Paxton Lynch did against a bunch of defenders I'd never heard of. Then a week later we find out his backup gave the playbook to the other team. A couple months ago I had the idea of building an algorithm to look for red flags in play logs and come up with some sort of 'suspicion rating' for each game. I don't have time for that, but someone should definitely do it. That would be such an interesting website...until the NCAA pays you a bunch of money to shut it down haha.
03-06-2023 11:50 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
Interesting, anti-zip. All I can say is that fixing college basketball games has happened before, so it's not impossible for it to happen again. Obviously, officials can fairly easily determine whether a team does or does not beat the point spread. It is more difficult for a player. It is more difficult than one may think for a player to intentionally mess up without it looking like he intentionally messed up.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2023 08:56 AM by Muskrat.)
03-07-2023 07:07 AM
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Post: #80
RE: Kent State vs. Akron
(03-07-2023 07:07 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Interesting, anti-zip. All I can say is that fixing college basketball games has happened before, so it's not impossible for it to happen again. Obviously, officials can fairly easily determine whether a team does or does not beat the point spread. It is more difficult for a player. It is more difficult than one may think for a player to intentionally mess up without it looking like he intentionally messed up.
Years ago if a player was involved in fixing a game it was probably due to no having any access to $$$ as a "student-athlete". Not that they couldn't or wouldn't do it today, they can pull some money legitimately via the NILs and not have to dip into the underworld for $$$.
03-07-2023 09:50 AM
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