(03-03-2023 07:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 06:42 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 06:27 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 07:29 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 05:29 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Doesn't understand we don't have a wealth tax.

Doesn't have a goal for a wealth tax other than free money for other people.

I understand it quite well and know plenty of people living on a Buy, Borrow, Die cycle to avoid capital gains tax. If we broke that cycle and forced capital gains on the ultra wealth (with a step up basis exemption of say $50M) we generate more tax revenue.

You have real issues. If these so called wealthy pull all of their money and put everything into trusts then large swathes of Americans are out of work. Only a clueless clown would want our Government running our economy.

Better be ready to live like the Chinese stacked upon one another. Equal sharing of misery is the dream of the Progressives like UofE

Bottom line is if you want to Robinhood the Wealthy you better be ready to live in squalor.

Once again if you took every penny the Wealthy had as you stated and gave it to our Government they would squander it within in a year and then who are going to tax BoyWonder?

Who said take every penny?

I said two things - Capital gains taxes with no step up basis on estate transfers of more than 50M. Force a capital gains event at the original cost basis. This doesn't take "every penny", it taxes capital gains before passing estates worth over $50M to their kids, which would take away the reason for the "buy, borrow, die".

And I asked for a flat 8% tax rate for companies who want to bring foreign cash back into the US, which is lower than the current rate. This encourages cash to come back from overseas. The horror.

Forcing a gains event on it then de facto in most cases forces a sale of the asset to pay the now newly defined gains event.

Easiest way around that is to buy the asset in the confines of an LLC or LLP with, say, a 1% voting interest, 95% profit interest, and veto power held by the patriarch, with the 99% voting interest and 5% profit interest held by the heir, with a strict transfer restriction.

Asset never moves in transfer -- what does move in the ownership interest in the entity that has essentially a death pill in it, which devalues the beejus it of the interest.

Sorry Elvis, there are ways around just about everything.

No just that (i.e. avoidance issues), think of the following --

Trying to manufacture a gains event many times (most times probably) will force a transfer to a 3rd party at death -- do you really want that to be the set policy goal? If you die, do you want to almost require that the pool of assets be liquidated out to third parties, that is have to have all your stuff sold, first?

Kind of the new estate sale. Someone dies, come on out and bid at the auction on the stuff that has to be sold to pay the taxes the government wants to claw out. Fun, fun, fun.

Family farm is gonna get transferred -- we are going to de facto force a sale of it since no one can gin up the now imposed faux capital gains event?

With a $50M exemption allowing step up basis under that amount protects the small family farm.

(03-03-2023 08:20 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 07:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 06:42 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 06:27 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 07:29 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  I understand it quite well and know plenty of people living on a Buy, Borrow, Die cycle to avoid capital gains tax. If we broke that cycle and forced capital gains on the ultra wealth (with a step up basis exemption of say $50M) we generate more tax revenue.

You have real issues. If these so called wealthy pull all of their money and put everything into trusts then large swathes of Americans are out of work. Only a clueless clown would want our Government running our economy.

Better be ready to live like the Chinese stacked upon one another. Equal sharing of misery is the dream of the Progressives like UofE

Bottom line is if you want to Robinhood the Wealthy you better be ready to live in squalor.

Once again if you took every penny the Wealthy had as you stated and gave it to our Government they would squander it within in a year and then who are going to tax BoyWonder?

Who said take every penny?

I said two things - Capital gains taxes with no step up basis on estate transfers of more than 50M. Force a capital gains event at the original cost basis. This doesn't take "every penny", it taxes capital gains before passing estates worth over $50M to their kids, which would take away the reason for the "buy, borrow, die".

And I asked for a flat 8% tax rate for companies who want to bring foreign cash back into the US, which is lower than the current rate. This encourages cash to come back from overseas. The horror.

Forcing a gains event on it then de facto in most cases forces a sale of the asset to pay the now newly defined gains event.

Easiest way around that is to buy the asset in the confines of an LLC or LLP with, say, a 1% voting interest, 95% profit interest, and veto power held by the patriarch, with the 99% voting interest and 5% profit interest held by the heir, with a strict transfer restriction.

Asset never moves in transfer -- what does move in the ownership interest in the entity that has essentially a death pill in it, which devalues the beejus it of the interest.

Sorry Elvis, there are ways around just about everything.

No just that (i.e. avoidance issues), think of the following --

Trying to manufacture a gains event many times (most times probably) will force a transfer to a 3rd party at death -- do you really want that to be the set policy goal? If you die, do you want to almost require that the pool of assets be liquidated out to third parties, that is have to have all your stuff sold, first?

Kind of the new estate sale. Someone dies, come on out and bid at the auction on the stuff that has to be sold to pay the taxes the government wants to claw out. Fun, fun, fun.

Family farm is gonna get transferred -- we are going to de facto force a sale of it since no one can gin up the now imposed faux capital gains event?

With a $50M exemption allowing step up basis under that amount protects the small family farm.

Why should the government promote with a heavy hand a de facto sale at *any* level?

(03-03-2023 10:02 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 08:20 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 07:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 06:42 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 06:27 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  You have real issues. If these so called wealthy pull all of their money and put everything into trusts then large swathes of Americans are out of work. Only a clueless clown would want our Government running our economy.

Better be ready to live like the Chinese stacked upon one another. Equal sharing of misery is the dream of the Progressives like UofE

Bottom line is if you want to Robinhood the Wealthy you better be ready to live in squalor.

Once again if you took every penny the Wealthy had as you stated and gave it to our Government they would squander it within in a year and then who are going to tax BoyWonder?

Who said take every penny?

I said two things - Capital gains taxes with no step up basis on estate transfers of more than 50M. Force a capital gains event at the original cost basis. This doesn't take "every penny", it taxes capital gains before passing estates worth over $50M to their kids, which would take away the reason for the "buy, borrow, die".

And I asked for a flat 8% tax rate for companies who want to bring foreign cash back into the US, which is lower than the current rate. This encourages cash to come back from overseas. The horror.

Forcing a gains event on it then de facto in most cases forces a sale of the asset to pay the now newly defined gains event.

Easiest way around that is to buy the asset in the confines of an LLC or LLP with, say, a 1% voting interest, 95% profit interest, and veto power held by the patriarch, with the 99% voting interest and 5% profit interest held by the heir, with a strict transfer restriction.

Asset never moves in transfer -- what does move in the ownership interest in the entity that has essentially a death pill in it, which devalues the beejus it of the interest.

Sorry Elvis, there are ways around just about everything.

No just that (i.e. avoidance issues), think of the following --

Trying to manufacture a gains event many times (most times probably) will force a transfer to a 3rd party at death -- do you really want that to be the set policy goal? If you die, do you want to almost require that the pool of assets be liquidated out to third parties, that is have to have all your stuff sold, first?

Kind of the new estate sale. Someone dies, come on out and bid at the auction on the stuff that has to be sold to pay the taxes the government wants to claw out. Fun, fun, fun.

Family farm is gonna get transferred -- we are going to de facto force a sale of it since no one can gin up the now imposed faux capital gains event?

With a $50M exemption allowing step up basis under that amount protects the small family farm.

Why should the government promote with a heavy hand a de facto sale at *any* level?

Eliminating the step up basis doesn’t force them to sell, it just means that when they do sell they owe cap gains on the original cost basis. Eliminates the major benefit of buy, borrow, die which is paying low interest now to reset the cost basis for your heirs.

Another in a long line of reasons we need to END withholding taxation and move toward a consumption paradigm. Somehow people thing Billionaires don't spend money. They just have vaults of cash in their homes and they stand there all day wringing their hands and admiring it with maniacal laughter. Eliminate the loopholes by eliminating the system that allows them. Make it simple. You buy something...you pay. End of story.

(03-04-2023 08:21 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:02 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 08:20 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 07:17 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 06:42 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  Who said take every penny?

I said two things - Capital gains taxes with no step up basis on estate transfers of more than 50M. Force a capital gains event at the original cost basis. This doesn't take "every penny", it taxes capital gains before passing estates worth over $50M to their kids, which would take away the reason for the "buy, borrow, die".

And I asked for a flat 8% tax rate for companies who want to bring foreign cash back into the US, which is lower than the current rate. This encourages cash to come back from overseas. The horror.

Forcing a gains event on it then de facto in most cases forces a sale of the asset to pay the now newly defined gains event.

Easiest way around that is to buy the asset in the confines of an LLC or LLP with, say, a 1% voting interest, 95% profit interest, and veto power held by the patriarch, with the 99% voting interest and 5% profit interest held by the heir, with a strict transfer restriction.

Asset never moves in transfer -- what does move in the ownership interest in the entity that has essentially a death pill in it, which devalues the beejus it of the interest.

Sorry Elvis, there are ways around just about everything.

No just that (i.e. avoidance issues), think of the following --

Trying to manufacture a gains event many times (most times probably) will force a transfer to a 3rd party at death -- do you really want that to be the set policy goal? If you die, do you want to almost require that the pool of assets be liquidated out to third parties, that is have to have all your stuff sold, first?

Kind of the new estate sale. Someone dies, come on out and bid at the auction on the stuff that has to be sold to pay the taxes the government wants to claw out. Fun, fun, fun.

Family farm is gonna get transferred -- we are going to de facto force a sale of it since no one can gin up the now imposed faux capital gains event?

With a $50M exemption allowing step up basis under that amount protects the small family farm.

Why should the government promote with a heavy hand a de facto sale at *any* level?

Eliminating the step up basis doesn’t force them to sell, it just means that when they do sell they owe cap gains on the original cost basis. Eliminates the major benefit of buy, borrow, die which is paying low interest now to reset the cost basis for your heirs.

I didnt say it would 'force' a sale. But 90% of the time it will.

Again, should the government *promote* with a heavy hand what will end up having to be a de facto sale at *any* level? Why should that be the default?

(03-04-2023 09:44 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Another in a long line of reasons we need to END withholding taxation and move toward a consumption paradigm. Somehow people thing Billionaires don't spend money. They just have vaults of cash in their homes and they stand there all day wringing their hands and admiring it with maniacal laughter. Eliminate the loopholes by eliminating the system that allows them. Make it simple. You buy something...you pay. End of story.

That's because Liberals are childish idiots who've seen too many superhero movies to come up with such a description as you mentioned. Yet in reality, conservatives are the bad guys because we don't want our taxes going to fund abortion on demand or transgender surgeries for minors.

(03-04-2023 11:01 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 09:44 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Another in a long line of reasons we need to END withholding taxation and move toward a consumption paradigm. Somehow people thing Billionaires don't spend money. They just have vaults of cash in their homes and they stand there all day wringing their hands and admiring it with maniacal laughter. Eliminate the loopholes by eliminating the system that allows them. Make it simple. You buy something...you pay. End of story.

That's because Liberals are childish idiots who've seen too many superhero movies to come up with such a description as you mentioned. Yet in reality, conservatives are the bad guys because we don't want our taxes going to fund abortion on demand or transgender surgeries for minors.

Social issues withstanding...I have not really seen much of an attempt by the right to do anything about this either. Both gangs LOVE withholding. It allows them to reach directly into your pocket each paycheck and gives them collateral to borrow the cash they use to fund the things they support. Nothing really is different between the gangs other than what they spend the money they steal from us on.