(02-24-2023 03:34 PM)U-C-FKnights Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:53 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Looks like that 120M is for the exit fee. Until the GOR is a year or two away where it effectively become an overlap with the exit fee (see TXOU) it will remain a separate problem with added cost.

I think you are right about that 120M just being the exit fee. which would likely be negotiated down to 60M or so.

About the GOR.... I found the OUT situation interesting. I'm no expert and don't really know the details of the deal, but it seems to me they paid the exit fee and then there was no real mention of a GOR penalty. I started thinking easiest explanation is they simply didn't pay any GOR penalty.

I started to wonder why because it made no sense to me. I don't think it was out of the goodness of their heart. My suspicion is that they didn't owe anything as a GOR penalty because the conference ended up not suffering any financial loss due to their early exit. Fox got made whole, and ESPN probably just agreed to pay the Big 12 the same as they would in 2024 if OUT stayed. Which is practically the same as the Big12 keeping the contracted value of OUT's media rights for 2024 anyway.

So it makes me wonder if teams in the ACC pay exit fees, and ESPN agrees to continue to pay the same per school rate would there even be a legally enforceable GOR penalty for the ACC since there would be no financial harm.

Of course the circumstances aren't exactly the same. There is a big difference between 1 year and 13 years. The Big 12 may be more willing to release the rights in exchange for the same pay since it was only a year and they are ready to move on. The ACC may not be as willing to make that same type of deal and be more inclined to fight it in court.

It feels like to me the Big 12 wanting to get a new TV deal before the PAC and not having another 2024 being another lame duck year gave them incentive to get a deal done, even if it meant leaving money on the table.

(02-24-2023 02:10 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 01:58 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  He at first gave a conservative 10-12% estimate in a recent interview. I don’t like unequal revenue sharing while conference re-alignment hanging over everyone’s head and should be done after every revenue generating opportunity is exhausted. After that, you increase the revenue of the 5-6 schools that have realignment value; FSU, UM, Clem, UNC, GT, (Pitt?). Figure out how much is just enough for them to extend the GoR another 5 years (as a gesture of good faith). The ACC office could also chip in out of their own pocket so the other schools getting less are not hit as hard.

Absolutely, for many of us there is no amount of money that would make remaining in the ACC a day longer than necessary worthwhile. If FSU doesn't get out by or before 6/30/36, it's going to cause major issues with donors and fans.

It's encouraging that the price of freedom is being mentioned at all, which means there is even more discussion and strategizing going on behind the scenes.

(02-24-2023 02:48 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:29 PM)Boots Wrote:  https://www.tampabay.com/sports/seminole...alignment/

So legal counsel just told the FSU board that they would roughly have to pay $120mm buyout to get out of the ACC GOR.

Yea ... that is not going to keep Florida State from leaving.

JRsec, where are you buddy?

I've been tied up with other fascinating developments. To date no school has had to pay more than 1 year's withheld media money as an exit fee. That doesn't mean that a higher figure can't be agreed to and paid, just that the courts have found no great way to force payments so withheld money (which can only be 1 years' worth) is all that can be seized and that by not paying the last year's media distribution.

GOR's usually come down to actual damages. If ESPN keeps the contracted amount paid to the ACC then there are essentially no damages. IF ESPN allows them to add three schools to replace one and increase inventory and they give them a slight bump in pay, then absolutely no damages have occurred to either ESPN or the ACC.

And unlike Texas and Oklahoma where FOX was involved ESPN can make this happen in house and not lose access to any departing school or even loose a percentage of their rights if they head to the SEC.

Remember how the incoming four to the Big 12 plus the agreed upon exit fees help keep their payouts level? Well, if FSU departs it could pave the way for N.D. to exit to the Big 10, or just exit and that clears up log jams in the PAC 12 and Big 12 because it allows the PAC 12 raid by the Big 10 to be completed. N.D. was likely a key component to making those valuations work. If they agreed to join the Big 10 when they extricated themselves from the ACC GOR, which they thought was likely to happen sooner than later, then the FSU move takes on another possible interpretation. Free FSU and you potentially free up a lot of movement which is currently on hold. Just my opinion, based on things I'm hearing.

(02-24-2023 04:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:48 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:29 PM)Boots Wrote:  https://www.tampabay.com/sports/seminole...alignment/

So legal counsel just told the FSU board that they would roughly have to pay $120mm buyout to get out of the ACC GOR.

Yea ... that is not going to keep Florida State from leaving.

JRsec, where are you buddy?

I've been tied up with other fascinating developments. To date no school has had to pay more than 1 year's withheld media money as an exit fee. That doesn't mean that a higher figure can't be agreed to and paid, just that the courts have found no great way to force payments so withheld money (which can only be 1 years' worth) is all that can be seized and that by not paying the last year's media distribution.

GOR's usually come down to actual damages. If ESPN keeps the contracted amount paid to the ACC then there are essentially no damages. IF ESPN allows them to add three schools to replace one and increase inventory and they give them a slight bump in pay, then absolutely no damages have occurred to either ESPN or the ACC.

And unlike Texas and Oklahoma where FOX was involved ESPN can make this happen in house and not lose access to any departing school or even loose a percentage of their rights if they head to the SEC.

Remember how the incoming four to the Big 12 plus the agreed upon exit fees help keep their payouts level? Well, if FSU departs it could pave the way for N.D. to exit to the Big 10, or just exit and that clears up log jams in the PAC 12 and Big 12 because it allows the PAC 12 raid by the Big 10 to be completed. N.D. was likely a key component to making those valuations work. If they agreed to join the Big 10 when they extricated themselves from the ACC GOR, which they thought was likely to happen sooner than later, then the FSU move takes on another possible interpretation. Free FSU and you potentially free up a lot of movement which is currently on hold. Just my opinion, based on things I'm hearing.

Wouldn't decreased viewership and TV ratings be damage? If you no longer play the highest rated schools, the decrease in ratings would be damage even though that damage might not be monetized until the next contract negotiation.

(02-24-2023 04:17 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:48 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:29 PM)Boots Wrote:  https://www.tampabay.com/sports/seminole...alignment/

So legal counsel just told the FSU board that they would roughly have to pay $120mm buyout to get out of the ACC GOR.

Yea ... that is not going to keep Florida State from leaving.

JRsec, where are you buddy?

I've been tied up with other fascinating developments. To date no school has had to pay more than 1 year's withheld media money as an exit fee. That doesn't mean that a higher figure can't be agreed to and paid, just that the courts have found no great way to force payments so withheld money (which can only be 1 years' worth) is all that can be seized and that by not paying the last year's media distribution.

GOR's usually come down to actual damages. If ESPN keeps the contracted amount paid to the ACC then there are essentially no damages. IF ESPN allows them to add three schools to replace one and increase inventory and they give them a slight bump in pay, then absolutely no damages have occurred to either ESPN or the ACC.

And unlike Texas and Oklahoma where FOX was involved ESPN can make this happen in house and not lose access to any departing school or even loose a percentage of their rights if they head to the SEC.

Remember how the incoming four to the Big 12 plus the agreed upon exit fees help keep their payouts level? Well, if FSU departs it could pave the way for N.D. to exit to the Big 10, or just exit and that clears up log jams in the PAC 12 and Big 12 because it allows the PAC 12 raid by the Big 10 to be completed. N.D. was likely a key component to making those valuations work. If they agreed to join the Big 10 when they extricated themselves from the ACC GOR, which they thought was likely to happen sooner than later, then the FSU move takes on another possible interpretation. Free FSU and you potentially free up a lot of movement which is currently on hold. Just my opinion, based on things I'm hearing.

Wouldn't decreased viewership and TV ratings be damage? If you no longer play the highest rated schools, the decrease in ratings would be damage even though that damage might not be monetized until the next contract negotiation.

Hello! Damages can only be claimed for the existing contract. FSU is not a party to a contract that occurs after the present one, and it may not be assumed that FSU, or any other member would be either. And the GOR? It runs for the contracted period in most of these cases.

If I hire you as contracted skilled labor to lay tile and finish rooms and you are excellent at it. Do you owe me damages when your contract is up and can find more pay elsewhere?

(02-24-2023 04:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:48 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:29 PM)Boots Wrote:  https://www.tampabay.com/sports/seminole...alignment/

So legal counsel just told the FSU board that they would roughly have to pay $120mm buyout to get out of the ACC GOR.

Yea ... that is not going to keep Florida State from leaving.

JRsec, where are you buddy?

I've been tied up with other fascinating developments. To date no school has had to pay more than 1 year's withheld media money as an exit fee. That doesn't mean that a higher figure can't be agreed to and paid, just that the courts have found no great way to force payments so withheld money (which can only be 1 years' worth) is all that can be seized and that by not paying the last year's media distribution.

GOR's usually come down to actual damages. If ESPN keeps the contracted amount paid to the ACC then there are essentially no damages. IF ESPN allows them to add three schools to replace one and increase inventory and they give them a slight bump in pay, then absolutely no damages have occurred to either ESPN or the ACC.

And unlike Texas and Oklahoma where FOX was involved ESPN can make this happen in house and not lose access to any departing school or even loose a percentage of their rights if they head to the SEC.

Remember how the incoming four to the Big 12 plus the agreed upon exit fees help keep their payouts level? Well, if FSU departs it could pave the way for N.D. to exit to the Big 10, or just exit and that clears up log jams in the PAC 12 and Big 12 because it allows the PAC 12 raid by the Big 10 to be completed. N.D. was likely a key component to making those valuations work. If they agreed to join the Big 10 when they extricated themselves from the ACC GOR, which they thought was likely to happen sooner than later, then the FSU move takes on another possible interpretation. Free FSU and you potentially free up a lot of movement which is currently on hold. Just my opinion, based on things I'm hearing.

When this goes to court in NC District court in Greensboro (the Federal Government has already awarded jurisdiction) FSU is in deep do-do and is liable to cost them much more than the $500-$600 Million that they will owe if they want to leave early.

(02-24-2023 04:23 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:48 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:29 PM)Boots Wrote:  https://www.tampabay.com/sports/seminole...alignment/

So legal counsel just told the FSU board that they would roughly have to pay $120mm buyout to get out of the ACC GOR.

Yea ... that is not going to keep Florida State from leaving.

JRsec, where are you buddy?

I've been tied up with other fascinating developments. To date no school has had to pay more than 1 year's withheld media money as an exit fee. That doesn't mean that a higher figure can't be agreed to and paid, just that the courts have found no great way to force payments so withheld money (which can only be 1 years' worth) is all that can be seized and that by not paying the last year's media distribution.

GOR's usually come down to actual damages. If ESPN keeps the contracted amount paid to the ACC then there are essentially no damages. IF ESPN allows them to add three schools to replace one and increase inventory and they give them a slight bump in pay, then absolutely no damages have occurred to either ESPN or the ACC.

And unlike Texas and Oklahoma where FOX was involved ESPN can make this happen in house and not lose access to any departing school or even loose a percentage of their rights if they head to the SEC.

Remember how the incoming four to the Big 12 plus the agreed upon exit fees help keep their payouts level? Well, if FSU departs it could pave the way for N.D. to exit to the Big 10, or just exit and that clears up log jams in the PAC 12 and Big 12 because it allows the PAC 12 raid by the Big 10 to be completed. N.D. was likely a key component to making those valuations work. If they agreed to join the Big 10 when they extricated themselves from the ACC GOR, which they thought was likely to happen sooner than later, then the FSU move takes on another possible interpretation. Free FSU and you potentially free up a lot of movement which is currently on hold. Just my opinion, based on things I'm hearing.

When this goes to court in NC District court in Greensboro (the Federal Government has already awarded jurisdiction) FSU is in deep do-do and is liable to cost them much more than the $500-$600 Million that they will owe if they want to leave early.

B.S.! They can rule for an amount larger than a year's media revenue, but they can't collect it for you. And that would be for the exit fee. The GOR is about actual damages. If you are paid the contracted amount for the duration of your contract you have no damages.

(02-24-2023 03:10 PM)ouflak Wrote:  (OU and UT) were on the hook for approximately an $80 million each exit fee no matter what. That's not GOR related or anything like that. That's just the basic deal that was signed. Plus, leaving early or not, the Big XII had our media rights through 2025 via the GOR. So what actually happened is that we were simply released from the GOR - it was in effect broken, and we negotiated that 80 million down to 40 million each to the conference and 10 million each to Fox ...

The ACC is in a different boat. For one thing, ESPN is already the major customer for their media rights. That's against the backdrop of the fact they will be the sole purveyor of SEC rights starting 2024. So the only negotiations from their perspective is what makes them the most money. If paying FSU that bump up distributions is worth more to ESPN in the long run, then that's what they will support and they are easily in a position to make the ACC happy with whatever deal makes that happen.

(02-24-2023 03:34 PM)U-C-FKnights Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:53 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Looks like that 120M is for the exit fee. Until the GOR is a year or two away where it effectively become an overlap with the exit fee (see TXOU) it will remain a separate problem with added cost.

I think you are right about that 120M just being the exit fee. which would likely be negotiated down to 60M or so.

About the GOR.... I found the OUT situation interesting. I'm no expert and don't really know the details of the deal, but it seems to me they paid the exit fee and then there was no real mention of a GOR penalty. I started thinking easiest explanation is they simply didn't pay any GOR penalty.

I started to wonder why because it made no sense to me. I don't think it was out of the goodness of their heart. My suspicion is that they didn't owe anything as a GOR penalty because the conference ended up not suffering any financial loss due to their early exit. Fox got made whole, and ESPN probably just agreed to pay the Big 12 the same as they would in 2024 if OUT stayed. Which is practically the same as the Big12 keeping the contracted value of OUT's media rights for 2024 anyway.

So it makes me wonder if teams in the ACC pay exit fees, and ESPN agrees to continue to pay the same per school rate would there even be a legally enforceable GOR penalty for the ACC since there would be no financial harm.

Of course the circumstances aren't exactly the same. There is a big difference between 1 year and 13 years. The Big 12 may be more willing to release the rights in exchange for the same pay since it was only a year and they are ready to move on. The ACC may not be as willing to make that same type of deal and be more inclined to fight it in court.

IIRC Oklahoma and Texas agreed to pay $80M to the conference in “exit fees” plus $20M to Fox for leaving the GOR one year early. Each school pays $50M total.

(02-24-2023 02:10 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 01:58 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  He at first gave a conservative 10-12% estimate in a recent interview. I don’t like unequal revenue sharing while conference re-alignment hanging over everyone’s head and should be done after every revenue generating opportunity is exhausted. After that, you increase the revenue of the 5-6 schools that have realignment value; FSU, UM, Clem, UNC, GT, (Pitt?). Figure out how much is just enough for them to extend the GoR another 5 years (as a gesture of good faith). The ACC office could also chip in out of their own pocket so the other schools getting less are not hit as hard.

Absolute insanity.

(02-24-2023 04:23 PM)XLance Wrote:  

When this goes to court in NC District court in Greensboro (the Federal Government has already awarded jurisdiction) FSU is in deep do-do and is liable to cost them much more than the $500-$600 Million that they will owe if they want to leave early.

(02-24-2023 04:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:23 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:48 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:29 PM)Boots Wrote:  https://www.tampabay.com/sports/seminole...alignment/

So legal counsel just told the FSU board that they would roughly have to pay $120mm buyout to get out of the ACC GOR.

Yea ... that is not going to keep Florida State from leaving.

JRsec, where are you buddy?

I've been tied up with other fascinating developments. To date no school has had to pay more than 1 year's withheld media money as an exit fee. That doesn't mean that a higher figure can't be agreed to and paid, just that the courts have found no great way to force payments so withheld money (which can only be 1 years' worth) is all that can be seized and that by not paying the last year's media distribution.

GOR's usually come down to actual damages. If ESPN keeps the contracted amount paid to the ACC then there are essentially no damages. IF ESPN allows them to add three schools to replace one and increase inventory and they give them a slight bump in pay, then absolutely no damages have occurred to either ESPN or the ACC.

And unlike Texas and Oklahoma where FOX was involved ESPN can make this happen in house and not lose access to any departing school or even loose a percentage of their rights if they head to the SEC.

Remember how the incoming four to the Big 12 plus the agreed upon exit fees help keep their payouts level? Well, if FSU departs it could pave the way for N.D. to exit to the Big 10, or just exit and that clears up log jams in the PAC 12 and Big 12 because it allows the PAC 12 raid by the Big 10 to be completed. N.D. was likely a key component to making those valuations work. If they agreed to join the Big 10 when they extricated themselves from the ACC GOR, which they thought was likely to happen sooner than later, then the FSU move takes on another possible interpretation. Free FSU and you potentially free up a lot of movement which is currently on hold. Just my opinion, based on things I'm hearing.

When this goes to court in NC District court in Greensboro (the Federal Government has already awarded jurisdiction) FSU is in deep do-do and is liable to cost them much more than the $500-$600 Million that they will owe if they want to leave early.

B.S.! They can rule for an amount larger than a year's media revenue, but they can't collect it for you. And that would be for the exit fee. The GOR is about actual damages. If you are paid the contracted amount for the duration of your contract you have no damages.

We'll see........... that contract is tighter than Dick's hatband.

From the updated story in the Tampa Bay Times:

Egan said the ACC’s exit fee is three times its annual operating budget. That equals about $120 million.

If FSU could make up $30 million per year, a trustee asked, does that mean the Seminoles would break even in about four years?

“Hypothetically,” FSU athletic director Alford said.

The full answer hinges on the grant of rights. ACC schools have granted the TV rights for their home games to the conference until 2036. The ACC then distributes that revenue back to teams. If FSU can’t find a legal escape valve, the Seminoles stand to lose out hundreds of millions of dollars.

The grant of rights itself was not discussed during the meeting, and it’s unclear how, or if, FSU would challenge it



No need to show your hand.

It is, however, clear that TV revenue is a major topic of conversation at the highest levels of FSU, including Alford, VP for legal affairs and general counsel Carolyn Egan and president Richard McCullough.

“We have to do something,” board chairperson Peter Collins said.

(02-24-2023 04:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:23 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:48 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 02:29 PM)Boots Wrote:  https://www.tampabay.com/sports/seminole...alignment/

So legal counsel just told the FSU board that they would roughly have to pay $120mm buyout to get out of the ACC GOR.

Yea ... that is not going to keep Florida State from leaving.

JRsec, where are you buddy?

I've been tied up with other fascinating developments. To date no school has had to pay more than 1 year's withheld media money as an exit fee. That doesn't mean that a higher figure can't be agreed to and paid, just that the courts have found no great way to force payments so withheld money (which can only be 1 years' worth) is all that can be seized and that by not paying the last year's media distribution.

GOR's usually come down to actual damages. If ESPN keeps the contracted amount paid to the ACC then there are essentially no damages. IF ESPN allows them to add three schools to replace one and increase inventory and they give them a slight bump in pay, then absolutely no damages have occurred to either ESPN or the ACC.

And unlike Texas and Oklahoma where FOX was involved ESPN can make this happen in house and not lose access to any departing school or even loose a percentage of their rights if they head to the SEC.

Remember how the incoming four to the Big 12 plus the agreed upon exit fees help keep their payouts level? Well, if FSU departs it could pave the way for N.D. to exit to the Big 10, or just exit and that clears up log jams in the PAC 12 and Big 12 because it allows the PAC 12 raid by the Big 10 to be completed. N.D. was likely a key component to making those valuations work. If they agreed to join the Big 10 when they extricated themselves from the ACC GOR, which they thought was likely to happen sooner than later, then the FSU move takes on another possible interpretation. Free FSU and you potentially free up a lot of movement which is currently on hold. Just my opinion, based on things I'm hearing.

When this goes to court in NC District court in Greensboro (the Federal Government has already awarded jurisdiction) FSU is in deep do-do and is liable to cost them much more than the $500-$600 Million that they will owe if they want to leave early.

B.S.! They can rule for an amount larger than a year's media revenue, but they can't collect it for you. And that would be for the exit fee. The GOR is about actual damages. If you are paid the contracted amount for the duration of your contract you have no damages.

[/quote] = XLance

365sports: Does Florida State Want Out of the ACC?
David Smoak and Paul Catalina discuss their thoughts on what will happen in the ACC, FSU's AD comments about unequal revenue sharing, what FSU will do, and more.

Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7bnz9wnosA

What exactly does ESPN gain by facilitating the movement of FSU out of The ACC? FSU is worth more to the four letter network in The ACC then they would be in The SEC.

Even if ESPN agrees to keep payments the same for The ACC, they would still have to increase The SEC’s payout to compensate for moving FSU to the conference.

It doesn’t make good business sense to reduce the value of a commodity and increase your costs doing it.

(02-24-2023 05:30 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  What exactly does ESPN gain by facilitating the movement of FSU out of The ACC? FSU is worth more to the four letter network in The ACC then they would be in The SEC.

Even if ESPN agrees to keep payments the same for The ACC, they would still have to increase The SEC’s payout to compensate for moving FSU to the conference.

It doesn’t make good business sense to reduce the value of a commodity and increase your costs doing it.

The only thing I can think of is that ESPN would be "protecting" Florida State by moving them from the ACC into the SEC, rather than risk keeping them in the ACC unhappy until the 2030s with FSU, in frustration against ESPN, pursuing a B1G membership with Fox.

ESPN cannot allow the B1G to get access into their SEC territory IMO. It could afford to lose UNC to the B1G; it could afford to lose Virginia; same with Oregon, Washington, Stanford, etc. But it cannot let the B1G get FSU, Georgia Tech, Miami or Clemson. The potential lost value of those programs to the B1G/Fox would be greater, IMO, than moving them (or a number of them) to the SEC (and hurting the ACC value). Sharing any of those markets/states would be harmful against the SEC.

(02-24-2023 03:42 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 03:32 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 03:22 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  I’m pretty sure FSU can claim Sovereign Immunity and avoid any of the GOR financial penalties.

GOR isn't financial penalties. they own your games. You want to join a different conference, you have to persuade ESPN and the ACC to sell you the game rights back.

No, you sell them twice. ACC sues FSU for selling the rights that the ACC allegedly owns, that creates a financial penalty. Then the State of Florida says this is covered under Sovereign Immunity and nullify it.

Problem solved.

GOR only applies to Private Schools.

What if the ACC sues the media company that buys this second set of rights, on the grounds that, well, they already own the rights?

I am not a lawyer so I don't know. But you are raising interesting issues around the GOR.

(02-24-2023 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  $120M to break a GOR longer than a decade?

Texas and OU paid $50M each for one year

Exactly, it'll be closer to $250-$350m.