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Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
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CajunBlazer Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-20-2023 01:14 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  The wife and I are through the first 2 episodes of Full Swing and love it.

Been reading this thread, and honestly all the pearl-clutching about LIV humors me. I honestly don't have much interest in LIV, because I don't think it has or will ever have what the PGA tour has. A bunch of really good golfers in big time tournaments with a lot of drama. LIV has mostly a bunch of has-beens and never-weres, playing tournaments you never heard of because they didn't exist 2 years ago. The only thing on the line is money. A lot of money. But that just isn't going to generate interest.

That being said: all this "blood money" talk... Come on. I know I'm repeating what someone already said earlier, but the Saudis pale in comparison to what the Chinese Communist Party are doing. For as much as people throw around comparisons to certain historical people, parties and practices- the CCP is the closest to fitting the bill. Yes, it's terrible that some journalist was murdered and dismembered on the command of the Saudi government (a journalist most had likely never heard of before he was killed...). But the CCP has people stuffed into concentration camps. Literally, not figuratively. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of them. The ones not dying are being used as slave labor to build the iPhone components people are using to type on this forum. They own the cobalt mines in Africa where what is essentially slave labor is digging out the minerals that go into your Tesla. And yet nobody blinks an eye when the NBA, which is sacrosanct and immune from criticism, scrapes as much money in from them, while silencing anyone who dares speak out. And we all buy our iPhones, and our Teslas, and everything else churning out of a country of slaves, never batting and eye. And then excoriate Graeme McDowell, or Phil Mickelson, or some other golfer for taking "Blood Money." (And I won't even get into how much Saudi, and other Gulf region "blood money," is tied up in sponsorships both direct and indirect, based on the fact they're invested in everything, that exists...ON THE PGA TOUR!!!)

Bottom line, people need to quit being naïve and get off the high horse. This is the real world you live in.

Okay, let me get this straight. If serial killer shots 10 people and tortures 5 more to death, it is unreasonable according to you to condemn the actions of an @$$hole who killed only one person?
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2023 11:59 PM by CajunBlazer.)
02-22-2023 11:55 PM
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MAN4UAB Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-22-2023 11:55 PM)CajunBlazer Wrote:  
(02-20-2023 01:14 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  The wife and I are through the first 2 episodes of Full Swing and love it.

Been reading this thread, and honestly all the pearl-clutching about LIV humors me. I honestly don't have much interest in LIV, because I don't think it has or will ever have what the PGA tour has. A bunch of really good golfers in big time tournaments with a lot of drama. LIV has mostly a bunch of has-beens and never-weres, playing tournaments you never heard of because they didn't exist 2 years ago. The only thing on the line is money. A lot of money. But that just isn't going to generate interest.

That being said: all this "blood money" talk... Come on. I know I'm repeating what someone already said earlier, but the Saudis pale in comparison to what the Chinese Communist Party are doing. For as much as people throw around comparisons to certain historical people, parties and practices- the CCP is the closest to fitting the bill. Yes, it's terrible that some journalist was murdered and dismembered on the command of the Saudi government (a journalist most had likely never heard of before he was killed...). But the CCP has people stuffed into concentration camps. Literally, not figuratively. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of them. The ones not dying are being used as slave labor to build the iPhone components people are using to type on this forum. They own the cobalt mines in Africa where what is essentially slave labor is digging out the minerals that go into your Tesla. And yet nobody blinks an eye when the NBA, which is sacrosanct and immune from criticism, scrapes as much money in from them, while silencing anyone who dares speak out. And we all buy our iPhones, and our Teslas, and everything else churning out of a country of slaves, never batting and eye. And then excoriate Graeme McDowell, or Phil Mickelson, or some other golfer for taking "Blood Money." (And I won't even get into how much Saudi, and other Gulf region "blood money," is tied up in sponsorships both direct and indirect, based on the fact they're invested in everything, that exists...ON THE PGA TOUR!!!)

Bottom line, people need to quit being naïve and get off the high horse. This is the real world you live in.

Okay, let me get this straight. If serial killer shots 10 people and tortures 5 more to death, it is unreasonable according to you to condemn the actions of an @$$hole who killed only one person?

I don’t think that he is saying that at all.
02-23-2023 07:38 AM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-23-2023 07:38 AM)MAN4UAB Wrote:  
(02-22-2023 11:55 PM)CajunBlazer Wrote:  
(02-20-2023 01:14 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  The wife and I are through the first 2 episodes of Full Swing and love it.

Been reading this thread, and honestly all the pearl-clutching about LIV humors me. I honestly don't have much interest in LIV, because I don't think it has or will ever have what the PGA tour has. A bunch of really good golfers in big time tournaments with a lot of drama. LIV has mostly a bunch of has-beens and never-weres, playing tournaments you never heard of because they didn't exist 2 years ago. The only thing on the line is money. A lot of money. But that just isn't going to generate interest.

That being said: all this "blood money" talk... Come on. I know I'm repeating what someone already said earlier, but the Saudis pale in comparison to what the Chinese Communist Party are doing. For as much as people throw around comparisons to certain historical people, parties and practices- the CCP is the closest to fitting the bill. Yes, it's terrible that some journalist was murdered and dismembered on the command of the Saudi government (a journalist most had likely never heard of before he was killed...). But the CCP has people stuffed into concentration camps. Literally, not figuratively. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of them. The ones not dying are being used as slave labor to build the iPhone components people are using to type on this forum. They own the cobalt mines in Africa where what is essentially slave labor is digging out the minerals that go into your Tesla. And yet nobody blinks an eye when the NBA, which is sacrosanct and immune from criticism, scrapes as much money in from them, while silencing anyone who dares speak out. And we all buy our iPhones, and our Teslas, and everything else churning out of a country of slaves, never batting and eye. And then excoriate Graeme McDowell, or Phil Mickelson, or some other golfer for taking "Blood Money." (And I won't even get into how much Saudi, and other Gulf region "blood money," is tied up in sponsorships both direct and indirect, based on the fact they're invested in everything, that exists...ON THE PGA TOUR!!!)

Bottom line, people need to quit being naïve and get off the high horse. This is the real world you live in.

Okay, let me get this straight. If serial killer shots 10 people and tortures 5 more to death, it is unreasonable according to you to condemn the actions of an @$$hole who killed only one person?

I don’t think that he is saying that at all.

uh that's exactly what he said
02-23-2023 08:18 AM
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BlazintheAtl1 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
The reason I live in the Kingdom is because the US government feels the need to kiss some major Saudi ass, despite all of the political posturing. Most, if not all of us on this board are US citizens. So like Bates said, let's get off our high horse.
02-23-2023 09:46 AM
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BatesUAB Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-23-2023 08:18 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  
(02-23-2023 07:38 AM)MAN4UAB Wrote:  
(02-22-2023 11:55 PM)CajunBlazer Wrote:  
(02-20-2023 01:14 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  The wife and I are through the first 2 episodes of Full Swing and love it.

Been reading this thread, and honestly all the pearl-clutching about LIV humors me. I honestly don't have much interest in LIV, because I don't think it has or will ever have what the PGA tour has. A bunch of really good golfers in big time tournaments with a lot of drama. LIV has mostly a bunch of has-beens and never-weres, playing tournaments you never heard of because they didn't exist 2 years ago. The only thing on the line is money. A lot of money. But that just isn't going to generate interest.

That being said: all this "blood money" talk... Come on. I know I'm repeating what someone already said earlier, but the Saudis pale in comparison to what the Chinese Communist Party are doing. For as much as people throw around comparisons to certain historical people, parties and practices- the CCP is the closest to fitting the bill. Yes, it's terrible that some journalist was murdered and dismembered on the command of the Saudi government (a journalist most had likely never heard of before he was killed...). But the CCP has people stuffed into concentration camps. Literally, not figuratively. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of them. The ones not dying are being used as slave labor to build the iPhone components people are using to type on this forum. They own the cobalt mines in Africa where what is essentially slave labor is digging out the minerals that go into your Tesla. And yet nobody blinks an eye when the NBA, which is sacrosanct and immune from criticism, scrapes as much money in from them, while silencing anyone who dares speak out. And we all buy our iPhones, and our Teslas, and everything else churning out of a country of slaves, never batting and eye. And then excoriate Graeme McDowell, or Phil Mickelson, or some other golfer for taking "Blood Money." (And I won't even get into how much Saudi, and other Gulf region "blood money," is tied up in sponsorships both direct and indirect, based on the fact they're invested in everything, that exists...ON THE PGA TOUR!!!)

Bottom line, people need to quit being naïve and get off the high horse. This is the real world you live in.

Okay, let me get this straight. If serial killer shots 10 people and tortures 5 more to death, it is unreasonable according to you to condemn the actions of an @$$hole who killed only one person?

I don’t think that he is saying that at all.

uh that's exactly what he said

No, that isn't at all what I said. I'm saying that it's gotten a little ridiculous portraying professional golfers as being complicit in a murder, which is basically what's going on. These guys have an opportunity to make twice the money, do half the work, and spend more time with their families. It's easy for you to trash that decision, since you didn't have to make it. Are the Saudis a$$holes? Yes. So are a lot of other people. That's life. And that's why I brought up China. They're worse, but I'll be willing to bet you aren't going to quit buying stuff from them. Instead you'll just go onto an internet message board and virtue signal by saying Bubba Watson killed Jamal Khashoggi.
02-23-2023 01:08 PM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-23-2023 01:08 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  It's easy for you to trash that decision, since you didn't have to make it.

Actually, some of us have made similar decisions. I quit my job at UAB because of Ray Watts. I put my money where my mouth was. It actually led to me leaving Alabama completely (also, putting my money where my mouth is in terms of disagreeing with the direction of the state). Am I saying Ray Watts is as bad as a Saudi prince? Of course not

And, it was a lot harder for me to do all of that than a bunch of guys who a) have other ways to make money, b) will make a whole hell of a lot more money than I will even if they did something else besides golf, and c) are making a living playing a game

I've got zero sympathy for the "just trying to put food on my family's table" argument when that table is in a million dollar house in a country club. Graeme has an economics and engineering degree from UAB. Seems like he had offers to be a TV golf analyst before he decided to join LIV. He owns a very nice restaurant in Orlando.

His kids are not going to go hungry if he stops playing golf professionally. He does it because he wants to
02-23-2023 02:08 PM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-23-2023 09:46 AM)BlazintheAtl1 Wrote:  The reason I live in the Kingdom is because the US government feels the need to kiss some major Saudi ass, despite all of the political posturing. Most, if not all of us on this board are US citizens. So like Bates said, let's get off our high horse.

I disagree with almost everything the US Government does, so no, I don't think I will get off my high horse about this. I hold my government to a particularly high standard, even higher than that of the Saudis
02-23-2023 02:11 PM
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blazr Away
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Post: #48
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
Think my post got lost in the noise:

Graeme on LIV and his controversial year
02-23-2023 02:40 PM
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Desert_Blazer Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
Blatant sportswashing and an inferior product.
02-24-2023 10:59 AM
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blazr Away
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Post: #50
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
Streaming, format, and coverage has been great today on CW’s App/Website (and LIV trying to flex on PGA on Twitter all day). Obvious efforts to make it unique and fun have been mostly successful. Tomorrow and Sunday are on live CW tv.

McDowell is +3 and the Cleeks are pulling up the rear at +9 (top 3 player scores count toward team score)
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2023 04:31 PM by blazr.)
02-24-2023 04:30 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
Shipnuck's column this morning: https://firepitcollective.com/opening-salvo-liv-golf/

Making the teams profitable is a big part of the LIV business model, as it owns 75 percent of each franchise; the rest of the equity goes to the captain and perhaps another key player. The goal is to sell each franchise to a bored billionaire or a multinational company, generating a windfall for the tour and the players. LIV is currently running at a huge loss, and at some point the Saudis are going to turn off the tap given what it costs.

So why would a billionaire want to buy a franchise to get the income from the gate plus a split of that not-so-fat CW contract? They can go play any pro-am they want to if they want to rub elbows with the players.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2023 08:26 PM by UAB Band Dad.)
02-27-2023 08:25 PM
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KevMo4UAB Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-27-2023 08:25 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  Shipnuck's column this morning: https://firepitcollective.com/opening-salvo-liv-golf/

Making the teams profitable is a big part of the LIV business model, as it owns 75 percent of each franchise; the rest of the equity goes to the captain and perhaps another key player. The goal is to sell each franchise to a bored billionaire or a multinational company, generating a windfall for the tour and the players. LIV is currently running at a huge loss, and at some point the Saudis are going to turn off the tap given what it costs.

So why would a billionaire want to buy a franchise to get the income from the gate plus a split of that not-so-fat CW contract? They can go play any pro-am they want to if they want to rub elbows with the players.

The PGA Tour was probably happy to get rid of a few of those players.
02-27-2023 10:13 PM
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BatesUAB Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-27-2023 10:13 PM)KevMo4UAB Wrote:  The PGA Tour was probably happy to get rid of a few of those players.

They might say that publicly, or at least act like it, but they aren't happy. Several of those guys draw a lot of eyeballs. Bryson, Brooks, DJ, Phil, plus a lot of guys who are popular in Europe, like Sergio Garcia, Louis Oosthuizen, Ian Poulter. Even guys people love to hate, like Patrick Reed. They draw attention, which draws sponsors, which draws money. Losing these guys no doubt affects the bottom line. Which is why under the new PGA Tour format, the top players contractually bound themselves to the elevated events.

What is lost in all this is the fact that Phil Mickelson got exactly what he was wanting- to reshape the PGA. (And when I say PGA, I mean the PGA Tour) Love him or hate him, love LIV or hate it, love or hate the way it went down- Phil said in those widely criticized remarks that he wanted to reshape the way the PGA operated. And he did it.

What LIV did was empower the players. That's why when the players that stayed with PGA circled the wagons and made demands, they got them. The "elevated events" have bigger purses, and to get that the top players had to agree to play them all, because like I said above: top players=eyeballs=sponsors=money for the purse. But by agreeing to play those events, the players have to play less minor tournaments. Just like the LIV model- less play for the same money, more time at home. In a way, they players who stayed with the PGA should be thanking the players that left, because without LIV, it would be status quo.

Again, I'm not endorsing good, bad, right or wrong. It's just the cold, hard economic facts of what has gone down in the last year. It's been as interesting a time as I can remember in golf.
02-28-2023 10:15 AM
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KevMo4UAB Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(02-28-2023 10:15 AM)BatesUAB Wrote:  
(02-27-2023 10:13 PM)KevMo4UAB Wrote:  The PGA Tour was probably happy to get rid of a few of those players.

They might say that publicly, or at least act like it, but they aren't happy. Several of those guys draw a lot of eyeballs. Bryson, Brooks, DJ, Phil, plus a lot of guys who are popular in Europe, like Sergio Garcia, Louis Oosthuizen, Ian Poulter. Even guys people love to hate, like Patrick Reed. They draw attention, which draws sponsors, which draws money. Losing these guys no doubt affects the bottom line. Which is why under the new PGA Tour format, the top players contractually bound themselves to the elevated events.

What is lost in all this is the fact that Phil Mickelson got exactly what he was wanting- to reshape the PGA. (And when I say PGA, I mean the PGA Tour) Love him or hate him, love LIV or hate it, love or hate the way it went down- Phil said in those widely criticized remarks that he wanted to reshape the way the PGA operated. And he did it.

What LIV did was empower the players. That's why when the players that stayed with PGA circled the wagons and made demands, they got them. The "elevated events" have bigger purses, and to get that the top players had to agree to play them all, because like I said above: top players=eyeballs=sponsors=money for the purse. But by agreeing to play those events, the players have to play less minor tournaments. Just like the LIV model- less play for the same money, more time at home. In a way, they players who stayed with the PGA should be thanking the players that left, because without LIV, it would be status quo.

Again, I'm not endorsing good, bad, right or wrong. It's just the cold, hard economic facts of what has gone down in the last year. It's been as interesting a time as I can remember in golf.

I was specifically thinking of Reed, Poulter, and Garcia. Haha!
02-28-2023 12:09 PM
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KevMo4UAB Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour


03-08-2023 09:11 PM
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BatesUAB Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
Some of them finally said it...

https://www.si.com/golf/news/rory-mcilro...ur-changes

“Without LIV Golf, this wouldn’t have happened. To an extent we should be thankful this threat has made the PGA Tour want to change things. I wish it didn’t come to the PGA Tour being under fire from somebody else to make those changes and make things better for the players, but I guess it is what we needed. So yeah, it is because of LIV Golf, otherwise we wouldn’t have seen any of this.’’
03-09-2023 01:12 PM
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blazr Away
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Post: #57
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
I still just live the format and will watch, but if it ended now LIV has served the purpose I hoped it would in shaking up the PGAT stale format. I give honors on the tee, replace my divots, let groups play thru, won’t put with the flag in, don’t walk behind a shooter, etc., but the pro sport has needed a shock if it wants eyeballs.
03-10-2023 12:33 AM
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mixduptransistor Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
(03-09-2023 01:12 PM)BatesUAB Wrote:  Some of them finally said it...

https://www.si.com/golf/news/rory-mcilro...ur-changes

“Without LIV Golf, this wouldn’t have happened. To an extent we should be thankful this threat has made the PGA Tour want to change things. I wish it didn’t come to the PGA Tour being under fire from somebody else to make those changes and make things better for the players, but I guess it is what we needed. So yeah, it is because of LIV Golf, otherwise we wouldn’t have seen any of this.’’

I mean, there is no reason every single professional golfer couldn't have refused to play. It actually didn't have to take a competing tour. The issues they wanted fixed just wasn't enough for them to be willing to put their money where their mouth was. Millions of workers have gotten what they wanted by withholding their labor throughout history

Someone *else* put up the money and took on the risk, and no one seems to care it's blood money. Which is fine, but they should own it
03-11-2023 10:19 AM
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Post: #59
RE: Graeme McDowell & LIV golf tour
Saudi Arabia's golf case threatens to spill kingdom secrets

https://news.yahoo.com/saudi-arabias-gol...36208.html
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2023 06:23 PM by UAB Band Dad.)
03-13-2023 06:23 PM
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