The issues:

1. Basketball is undervalued under the NCAA

2. Your football depth needs to be strengthened.

3. Your GOR needs to be opened through additions and renegotiated.

4. You don't need the PAC schools. Their numbers are weaker than your own.

5. You need an agreement between member schools as to placing Revenue as your top priority in considering additions.

6. You should look to grow in ways which are not typical of the SEC and Big 10 and do so before the Big 12 or PAC 12 explores these options.

7. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia either need to be central to the identity of the ACC or jettisoned for a new identity.

8. If Florida State cannot be satisfied you should let them go. They have strong options. Clemson does not have as strong of a bargaining position vis a vie the SEC and has none with the Big 10. The ACC needs Clemson to anchor your football value. Florida State is important as well, but not at the price of unity.

Suggestions:

Look for schools with a higher valuations, better attendance, and better viewership numbers than your own. There are more than a few among the Big 12. It is not time for academic snobbery if you want to keep your conference together. Like it or not Louisville truly adds to your value. Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas State, and even Iowa State all add markets. So too does WVU which fits nicely with Pitt, Syracuse, and B.C. If the Big 12 picks up any PAC schools incorporate those 2 or 4 with your raid or merge. You are adding hoops power there as well as football gravitas.

Think a maximum of 24 football schools, but as many divisions for hoops to dominate that sport and the new tournament's revenue as you can add if they are hoops only. You could have a Big East Division, a Big 12 division and an ACC division for hoops. Take the top 2 from each of those divisional tournaments and 2 at large, or ever how many is profitable, for the ACC tourney. Make a mint in house in what you do best. The market synergy on this kind of hoops move would pay in terms of the ACCN and in negotiations on value as you would bargaining as a collective.

If Duke, UNC, and Virginia can't live with the Big 12 schools, or Big East hoops teams, let them leave. If Duke, UNC and Virginia are behind these moves they stay. The SEC would likely appease ESPN if they simply added Kansas and Florida State to move to 18.

Build leverage for basketball through the adding of these schools. Incorporate the Big East before the Big 12 does. There are a lot of rumors that those two are in talks for a basketball only arrangement. This is still a struggle for survival between the ACC and Big 12. Once you increase your inventory for basketball push for separation from the NCAA and a breakaway in a pay for play league and more than double your revenue in hoops (think x 2.25). The SEC will back this.

Partner your football in a scheduling alliance in house with the SEC. ESPN would be amenable. It works for bowls as well and the fans would like the distances. SEC schools raise your viewership and value. We both should have 3 OOC games to be played against other P5's, let's dedicate 2 of them with each other and keep that money in house.

The ACC would still offer quite the mix of competition for Notre Dame to carve out a nice schedule. The total sports package should suit them. They could remain independent or join fully when something else could unfold to entice them. Something I'll mention below.

Now for the long game. If the SEC locks down the football recruiting states, shares them naturally with the ACC, and the ACC locks down East Coast basketball and adds SW basketball to it as well as other SW football brands, you become the #1 basketball product in terms of quality and with the depth of inventory for the Winter programming you can begin with the new contract to piece out your inventory for basketball as the Big 10 does for football. Only you have a better product in hoops than they have in football so for basketball prices you should command the #1 contract for that sport.

With less ability to access Southern recruits the Big 10 schools married to the PAC schools would both suffer the same slow slide in competitive ability. Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, and possibly Michigan and Wisconsin may have to rethink their associations. Toss those schools into the mix 13 years down the line to receive access to Southern recruiting without having to slog through an SEC schedule and ESPN now has the two power conferences for all sports without the laggards in the PAC and Big 10. Remember if you don't go to them, eventually they have to come to you. This is how a well-funded through hoops ACC moves from #3 to #2, possibly #1 if the SEC becomes complacent.

Recruiting, Money and publicity would be your tools. Hoops enhances your exposure tremendously with the array of schools you would represent. With the right football adds from the North you become at least an equal player with the SEC.

Whether you get to such a position or not isn't as relevant as striving to get there. You will see improvement across the board just by knowing what you are trying to achieve.

You may criticize my suggestions, but the one knock I have on the ACC in its entire realignment history, is that it never acted outside of its comfort zone and never took a big risk.

Delaney launched a network without ESPN's help. Roy Kramer began divisional play with a Conference Championship game. It could have flopped. The ACC stockpiled a few Big East schools with which they were comfortable in hoops fit. You grafted in a couple of football brands and hoped that would preserve what you had. It didn't. And it didn't because hoops paid less, but remained your emphasis.

Well, the worm will turn in favor of basketball again. Circle the wagons and beef it up now. Then use your recruiting grounds to bring in big time names in football when they get locked out of the South and need exposure to Deep South recruiting to remain viable. They have 100,000 seat stadia which need filling. Be a little ruthless and aggressive. Right now, you are Conference #3 in revenue. Act like it instead of waiting for the inevitable, which will only happen if you do nothing to prevent it.

The SEC almost has the conference it wants. Use what you do best, basketball, and your native soil to grow your football. You can't get them now, they would laugh. In 2034 if the SEC is locked down they won't be laughing, they'll be worried. You are already better in basketball. Take away their options in the NE in that sport, grow your network, and lure what you want in when the time is right.

In the meantime, selling the ACCN in most of the NE states for hoops and in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virgina for football, and perhaps in any PAC states the Big 12 picks up is your ticket to closing that gap. Remember the Big 12 still doesn't have a network. You do.

But none of it will happen if you don't try, or you just wait for your fate. If Phillips won't pull the trigger get somebody else, hopefully someone with a personal stake in the ACC. And since it can't happen in a house divided. Let the opposition go. Build again in unity.

JR

(02-15-2023 02:08 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The issues:

1. Basketball is undervalued under the NCAA

2. Your football depth needs to be strengthened.

3. Your GOR needs to be opened through additions and renegotiated.

4. You don't need the PAC schools. Their numbers are weaker than your own.

5. You need an agreement between member schools as to placing Revenue as your top priority in considering additions.

6. You should look to grow in ways which are not typical of the SEC and Big 10 and do so before the Big 12 or PAC 12 explores these options.

7. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia either need to be central to the identity of the ACC or jettisoned for a new identity.

8. If Florida State cannot be satisfied you should let them go. They have strong options. Clemson does not have as strong of a bargaining position vis a vie the SEC and has none with the Big 10. The ACC needs Clemson to anchor your football value. Florida State is important as well, but not at the price of unity.

Suggestions:

Look for schools with a higher valuations, better attendance, and better viewership numbers than your own. There are more than a few among the Big 12. It is not time for academic snobbery if you want to keep your conference together. Like it or not Louisville truly adds to your value. Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas State, and even Iowa State all add markets. So too does WVU which fits nicely with Pitt, Syracuse, and B.C. If the Big 12 picks up any PAC schools incorporate those 2 or 4 with your raid or merge. You are adding hoops power there as well as football gravitas.

Think a maximum of 24 football schools, but as many divisions for hoops to dominate that sport and the new tournament's revenue as you can add if they are hoops only. You could have a Big East Division, a Big 12 division and an ACC division for hoops. Take the top 2 from each of those divisional tournaments and 2 at large, or ever how many is profitable, for the ACC tourney. Make a mint in house in what you do best. The market synergy on this kind of hoops move would pay in terms of the ACCN and in negotiations on value as you would bargaining as a collective.

If Duke, UNC, and Virginia can't live with the Big 12 schools, or Big East hoops teams, let them leave. If Duke, UNC and Virginia are behind these moves they stay. The SEC would likely appease ESPN if they simply added Kansas and Florida State to move to 18.

Build leverage for basketball through the adding of these schools. Incorporate the Big East before the Big 12 does. There are a lot of rumors that those two are in talks for a basketball only arrangement. This is still a struggle for survival between the ACC and Big 12. Once you increase your inventory for basketball push for separation from the NCAA and a breakaway in a pay for play league and more than double your revenue in hoops (think x 2.25). The SEC will back this.

Partner your football in a scheduling alliance in house with the SEC. ESPN would be amenable. It works for bowls as well and the fans would like the distances. SEC schools raise your viewership and value. We both should have 3 OOC games to be played against other P5's, let's dedicate 2 of them with each other and keep that money in house.

The ACC would still offer quite the mix of competition for Notre Dame to carve out a nice schedule. The total sports package should suit them. They could remain independent or join fully when something else could unfold to entice them. Something I'll mention below.

Now for the long game. If the SEC locks down the football recruiting states, shares them naturally with the ACC, and the ACC locks down East Coast basketball and adds SW basketball to it as well as other SW football brands, you become the #1 basketball product in terms of quality and with the depth of inventory for the Winter programming you can begin with the new contract to piece out your inventory for basketball as the Big 10 does for football. Only you have a better product in hoops than they have in football so for basketball prices you should command the #1 contract for that sport.

With less ability to access Southern recruits the Big 10 schools married to the PAC schools would both suffer the same slow slide in competitive ability. Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, and possibly Michigan and Wisconsin may have to rethink their associations. Toss those schools into the mix 13 years down the line to receive access to Southern recruiting without having to slog through an SEC schedule and ESPN now has the two power conferences for all sports without the laggards in the PAC and Big 10. Remember if you don't go to them, eventually they have to come to you. This is how a well-funded through hoops ACC moves from #3 to #2, possibly #1 if the SEC becomes complacent.

Recruiting, Money and publicity would be your tools. Hoops enhances your exposure tremendously with the array of schools you would represent. With the right football adds from the North you become at least an equal player with the SEC.

Whether you get to such a position or not isn't as relevant as striving to get there. You will see improvement across the board just by knowing what you are trying to achieve.

You may criticize my suggestions, but the one knock I have on the ACC in its entire realignment history, is that it never acted outside of its comfort zone and never took a big risk.

Delaney launched a network without ESPN's help. Roy Kramer began divisional play with a Conference Championship game. It could have flopped. The ACC stockpiled a few Big East schools with which they were comfortable in hoops fit. You grafted in a couple of football brands and hoped that would preserve what you had. It didn't. And it didn't because hoops paid less, but remained your emphasis.

Well, the worm will turn in favor of basketball again. Circle the wagons and beef it up now. Then use your recruiting grounds to bring in big time names in football when they get locked out of the South and need exposure to Deep South recruiting to remain viable. They have 100,000 seat stadia which need filling. Be a little ruthless and aggressive. Right now, you are Conference #3 in revenue. Act like it instead of waiting for the inevitable, which will only happen if you do nothing to prevent it.

The SEC almost has the conference it wants. Use what you do best, basketball, and your native soil to grow your football. You can't get them now, they would laugh. In 2034 if the SEC is locked down they won't be laughing, they'll be worried. You are already better in basketball. Take away their options in the NE in that sport, grow your network, and lure what you want in when the time is right.

In the meantime, selling the ACCN in most of the NE states for hoops and in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virgina for football, and perhaps in any PAC states the Big 12 picks up is your ticket to closing that gap. Remember the Big 12 still doesn't have a network. You do.

But none of it will happen if you don't try, or you just wait for your fate. If Phillips won't pull the trigger get somebody else, hopefully someone with a personal stake in the ACC. And since it can't happen in a house divided. Let the opposition go. Build again in unity.

JR

Excellent thoughts on this, JR. However, I'd lean more towards the ACC adding PAC members for the simple reason that adding Big12 teams doesn't give ESPN anything that they don't already have (i.e. TX, OK). A 5 team western pod plus one of WV, Cincinnati, or (gag) UConn/Temple gets the ACC to 20 in 4 nice, neat, manageable pods.

The bigger driver here is that ESPN isn't lacking in inventory in the east and central time zones with the rights they already have.

NCAA Basketball needs more national importance, but the ACC can at least capitalize on its regional importance. I suggest the ACC go to a 16 team, 4 pods of 4 system with a heavy emphasis on the Tobacco Road teams playing each other twice a season and another in a end of season pod tournament. This strengthens the importance of regional games and with the #1 seeded team acting as the host of the pod tournament, this rewards basketball success and there is a small revenue windwall for the host team. I suppose the point would be cut back in travel expenses and increase regional interest, and a forging of current and potential rivalries.

(02-15-2023 07:28 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:08 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The issues:

1. Basketball is undervalued under the NCAA

2. Your football depth needs to be strengthened.

3. Your GOR needs to be opened through additions and renegotiated.

4. You don't need the PAC schools. Their numbers are weaker than your own.

5. You need an agreement between member schools as to placing Revenue as your top priority in considering additions.

6. You should look to grow in ways which are not typical of the SEC and Big 10 and do so before the Big 12 or PAC 12 explores these options.

7. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia either need to be central to the identity of the ACC or jettisoned for a new identity.

8. If Florida State cannot be satisfied you should let them go. They have strong options. Clemson does not have as strong of a bargaining position vis a vie the SEC and has none with the Big 10. The ACC needs Clemson to anchor your football value. Florida State is important as well, but not at the price of unity.

Suggestions:

Look for schools with a higher valuations, better attendance, and better viewership numbers than your own. There are more than a few among the Big 12. It is not time for academic snobbery if you want to keep your conference together. Like it or not Louisville truly adds to your value. Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas State, and even Iowa State all add markets. So too does WVU which fits nicely with Pitt, Syracuse, and B.C. If the Big 12 picks up any PAC schools incorporate those 2 or 4 with your raid or merge. You are adding hoops power there as well as football gravitas.

Think a maximum of 24 football schools, but as many divisions for hoops to dominate that sport and the new tournament's revenue as you can add if they are hoops only. You could have a Big East Division, a Big 12 division and an ACC division for hoops. Take the top 2 from each of those divisional tournaments and 2 at large, or ever how many is profitable, for the ACC tourney. Make a mint in house in what you do best. The market synergy on this kind of hoops move would pay in terms of the ACCN and in negotiations on value as you would bargaining as a collective.

If Duke, UNC, and Virginia can't live with the Big 12 schools, or Big East hoops teams, let them leave. If Duke, UNC and Virginia are behind these moves they stay. The SEC would likely appease ESPN if they simply added Kansas and Florida State to move to 18.

Build leverage for basketball through the adding of these schools. Incorporate the Big East before the Big 12 does. There are a lot of rumors that those two are in talks for a basketball only arrangement. This is still a struggle for survival between the ACC and Big 12. Once you increase your inventory for basketball push for separation from the NCAA and a breakaway in a pay for play league and more than double your revenue in hoops (think x 2.25). The SEC will back this.

Partner your football in a scheduling alliance in house with the SEC. ESPN would be amenable. It works for bowls as well and the fans would like the distances. SEC schools raise your viewership and value. We both should have 3 OOC games to be played against other P5's, let's dedicate 2 of them with each other and keep that money in house.

The ACC would still offer quite the mix of competition for Notre Dame to carve out a nice schedule. The total sports package should suit them. They could remain independent or join fully when something else could unfold to entice them. Something I'll mention below.

Now for the long game. If the SEC locks down the football recruiting states, shares them naturally with the ACC, and the ACC locks down East Coast basketball and adds SW basketball to it as well as other SW football brands, you become the #1 basketball product in terms of quality and with the depth of inventory for the Winter programming you can begin with the new contract to piece out your inventory for basketball as the Big 10 does for football. Only you have a better product in hoops than they have in football so for basketball prices you should command the #1 contract for that sport.

With less ability to access Southern recruits the Big 10 schools married to the PAC schools would both suffer the same slow slide in competitive ability. Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, and possibly Michigan and Wisconsin may have to rethink their associations. Toss those schools into the mix 13 years down the line to receive access to Southern recruiting without having to slog through an SEC schedule and ESPN now has the two power conferences for all sports without the laggards in the PAC and Big 10. Remember if you don't go to them, eventually they have to come to you. This is how a well-funded through hoops ACC moves from #3 to #2, possibly #1 if the SEC becomes complacent.

Recruiting, Money and publicity would be your tools. Hoops enhances your exposure tremendously with the array of schools you would represent. With the right football adds from the North you become at least an equal player with the SEC.

Whether you get to such a position or not isn't as relevant as striving to get there. You will see improvement across the board just by knowing what you are trying to achieve.

You may criticize my suggestions, but the one knock I have on the ACC in its entire realignment history, is that it never acted outside of its comfort zone and never took a big risk.

Delaney launched a network without ESPN's help. Roy Kramer began divisional play with a Conference Championship game. It could have flopped. The ACC stockpiled a few Big East schools with which they were comfortable in hoops fit. You grafted in a couple of football brands and hoped that would preserve what you had. It didn't. And it didn't because hoops paid less, but remained your emphasis.

Well, the worm will turn in favor of basketball again. Circle the wagons and beef it up now. Then use your recruiting grounds to bring in big time names in football when they get locked out of the South and need exposure to Deep South recruiting to remain viable. They have 100,000 seat stadia which need filling. Be a little ruthless and aggressive. Right now, you are Conference #3 in revenue. Act like it instead of waiting for the inevitable, which will only happen if you do nothing to prevent it.

The SEC almost has the conference it wants. Use what you do best, basketball, and your native soil to grow your football. You can't get them now, they would laugh. In 2034 if the SEC is locked down they won't be laughing, they'll be worried. You are already better in basketball. Take away their options in the NE in that sport, grow your network, and lure what you want in when the time is right.

In the meantime, selling the ACCN in most of the NE states for hoops and in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virgina for football, and perhaps in any PAC states the Big 12 picks up is your ticket to closing that gap. Remember the Big 12 still doesn't have a network. You do.

But none of it will happen if you don't try, or you just wait for your fate. If Phillips won't pull the trigger get somebody else, hopefully someone with a personal stake in the ACC. And since it can't happen in a house divided. Let the opposition go. Build again in unity.

JR

Excellent thoughts on this, JR. However, I'd lean more towards the ACC adding PAC members for the simple reason that adding Big12 teams doesn't give ESPN anything that they don't already have (i.e. TX, OK). A 5 team western pod plus one of WV, Cincinnati, or (gag) UConn/Temple gets the ACC to 20 in 4 nice, neat, manageable pods.

The bigger driver here is that ESPN isn't lacking in inventory in the east and central time zones with the rights they already have.

Another consideration is that if the ACC takes pac teams and locks them into a grant of rights, then the Big 10 would be somewhat weakened by only having two teams on the west coast island.

(02-15-2023 08:22 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 07:28 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:08 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The issues:

1. Basketball is undervalued under the NCAA

2. Your football depth needs to be strengthened.

3. Your GOR needs to be opened through additions and renegotiated.

4. You don't need the PAC schools. Their numbers are weaker than your own.

5. You need an agreement between member schools as to placing Revenue as your top priority in considering additions.

6. You should look to grow in ways which are not typical of the SEC and Big 10 and do so before the Big 12 or PAC 12 explores these options.

7. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia either need to be central to the identity of the ACC or jettisoned for a new identity.

8. If Florida State cannot be satisfied you should let them go. They have strong options. Clemson does not have as strong of a bargaining position vis a vie the SEC and has none with the Big 10. The ACC needs Clemson to anchor your football value. Florida State is important as well, but not at the price of unity.

Suggestions:

Look for schools with a higher valuations, better attendance, and better viewership numbers than your own. There are more than a few among the Big 12. It is not time for academic snobbery if you want to keep your conference together. Like it or not Louisville truly adds to your value. Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas State, and even Iowa State all add markets. So too does WVU which fits nicely with Pitt, Syracuse, and B.C. If the Big 12 picks up any PAC schools incorporate those 2 or 4 with your raid or merge. You are adding hoops power there as well as football gravitas.

Think a maximum of 24 football schools, but as many divisions for hoops to dominate that sport and the new tournament's revenue as you can add if they are hoops only. You could have a Big East Division, a Big 12 division and an ACC division for hoops. Take the top 2 from each of those divisional tournaments and 2 at large, or ever how many is profitable, for the ACC tourney. Make a mint in house in what you do best. The market synergy on this kind of hoops move would pay in terms of the ACCN and in negotiations on value as you would bargaining as a collective.

If Duke, UNC, and Virginia can't live with the Big 12 schools, or Big East hoops teams, let them leave. If Duke, UNC and Virginia are behind these moves they stay. The SEC would likely appease ESPN if they simply added Kansas and Florida State to move to 18.

Build leverage for basketball through the adding of these schools. Incorporate the Big East before the Big 12 does. There are a lot of rumors that those two are in talks for a basketball only arrangement. This is still a struggle for survival between the ACC and Big 12. Once you increase your inventory for basketball push for separation from the NCAA and a breakaway in a pay for play league and more than double your revenue in hoops (think x 2.25). The SEC will back this.

Partner your football in a scheduling alliance in house with the SEC. ESPN would be amenable. It works for bowls as well and the fans would like the distances. SEC schools raise your viewership and value. We both should have 3 OOC games to be played against other P5's, let's dedicate 2 of them with each other and keep that money in house.

The ACC would still offer quite the mix of competition for Notre Dame to carve out a nice schedule. The total sports package should suit them. They could remain independent or join fully when something else could unfold to entice them. Something I'll mention below.

Now for the long game. If the SEC locks down the football recruiting states, shares them naturally with the ACC, and the ACC locks down East Coast basketball and adds SW basketball to it as well as other SW football brands, you become the #1 basketball product in terms of quality and with the depth of inventory for the Winter programming you can begin with the new contract to piece out your inventory for basketball as the Big 10 does for football. Only you have a better product in hoops than they have in football so for basketball prices you should command the #1 contract for that sport.

With less ability to access Southern recruits the Big 10 schools married to the PAC schools would both suffer the same slow slide in competitive ability. Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, and possibly Michigan and Wisconsin may have to rethink their associations. Toss those schools into the mix 13 years down the line to receive access to Southern recruiting without having to slog through an SEC schedule and ESPN now has the two power conferences for all sports without the laggards in the PAC and Big 10. Remember if you don't go to them, eventually they have to come to you. This is how a well-funded through hoops ACC moves from #3 to #2, possibly #1 if the SEC becomes complacent.

Recruiting, Money and publicity would be your tools. Hoops enhances your exposure tremendously with the array of schools you would represent. With the right football adds from the North you become at least an equal player with the SEC.

Whether you get to such a position or not isn't as relevant as striving to get there. You will see improvement across the board just by knowing what you are trying to achieve.

You may criticize my suggestions, but the one knock I have on the ACC in its entire realignment history, is that it never acted outside of its comfort zone and never took a big risk.

Delaney launched a network without ESPN's help. Roy Kramer began divisional play with a Conference Championship game. It could have flopped. The ACC stockpiled a few Big East schools with which they were comfortable in hoops fit. You grafted in a couple of football brands and hoped that would preserve what you had. It didn't. And it didn't because hoops paid less, but remained your emphasis.

Well, the worm will turn in favor of basketball again. Circle the wagons and beef it up now. Then use your recruiting grounds to bring in big time names in football when they get locked out of the South and need exposure to Deep South recruiting to remain viable. They have 100,000 seat stadia which need filling. Be a little ruthless and aggressive. Right now, you are Conference #3 in revenue. Act like it instead of waiting for the inevitable, which will only happen if you do nothing to prevent it.

The SEC almost has the conference it wants. Use what you do best, basketball, and your native soil to grow your football. You can't get them now, they would laugh. In 2034 if the SEC is locked down they won't be laughing, they'll be worried. You are already better in basketball. Take away their options in the NE in that sport, grow your network, and lure what you want in when the time is right.

In the meantime, selling the ACCN in most of the NE states for hoops and in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virgina for football, and perhaps in any PAC states the Big 12 picks up is your ticket to closing that gap. Remember the Big 12 still doesn't have a network. You do.

But none of it will happen if you don't try, or you just wait for your fate. If Phillips won't pull the trigger get somebody else, hopefully someone with a personal stake in the ACC. And since it can't happen in a house divided. Let the opposition go. Build again in unity.

JR

Excellent thoughts on this, JR. However, I'd lean more towards the ACC adding PAC members for the simple reason that adding Big12 teams doesn't give ESPN anything that they don't already have (i.e. TX, OK). A 5 team western pod plus one of WV, Cincinnati, or (gag) UConn/Temple gets the ACC to 20 in 4 nice, neat, manageable pods.

The bigger driver here is that ESPN isn't lacking in inventory in the east and central time zones with the rights they already have.

Another consideration is that if the ACC takes pac teams and locks them into a grant of rights, then the Big 10 would be somewhat weakened by only having two teams on the west coast island.

I'm sure the B1G deeply considered the risk of the remaining PAC schools going elsewhere (and likely under a GoR). And they're okay with it. If they wanted them, the B1G could have had them. And still can. In fact, I'm sure they'll get a last chance before any of the other PAC schools sign on the line to go elsewhere.

I don't think that the Big Ten wants additional Pac 10 schools.

I also don't think that USC wants additional Pac schools in the Big Ten.

(02-15-2023 02:08 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The issues:

1. Basketball is undervalued under the NCAA

2. Your football depth needs to be strengthened.

3. Your GOR needs to be opened through additions and renegotiated.

4. You don't need the PAC schools. Their numbers are weaker than your own.

5. You need an agreement between member schools as to placing Revenue as your top priority in considering additions.

6. You should look to grow in ways which are not typical of the SEC and Big 10 and do so before the Big 12 or PAC 12 explores these options.

7. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia either need to be central to the identity of the ACC or jettisoned for a new identity.

8. If Florida State cannot be satisfied you should let them go. They have strong options. Clemson does not have as strong of a bargaining position vis a vie the SEC and has none with the Big 10. The ACC needs Clemson to anchor your football value. Florida State is important as well, but not at the price of unity.

Suggestions:

Look for schools with a higher valuations, better attendance, and better viewership numbers than your own. There are more than a few among the Big 12. It is not time for academic snobbery if you want to keep your conference together. Like it or not Louisville truly adds to your value. Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas State, and even Iowa State all add markets. So too does WVU which fits nicely with Pitt, Syracuse, and B.C. If the Big 12 picks up any PAC schools incorporate those 2 or 4 with your raid or merge. You are adding hoops power there as well as football gravitas.

Think a maximum of 24 football schools, but as many divisions for hoops to dominate that sport and the new tournament's revenue as you can add if they are hoops only. You could have a Big East Division, a Big 12 division and an ACC division for hoops. Take the top 2 from each of those divisional tournaments and 2 at large, or ever how many is profitable, for the ACC tourney. Make a mint in house in what you do best. The market synergy on this kind of hoops move would pay in terms of the ACCN and in negotiations on value as you would bargaining as a collective.

If Duke, UNC, and Virginia can't live with the Big 12 schools, or Big East hoops teams, let them leave. If Duke, UNC and Virginia are behind these moves they stay. The SEC would likely appease ESPN if they simply added Kansas and Florida State to move to 18.

Build leverage for basketball through the adding of these schools. Incorporate the Big East before the Big 12 does. There are a lot of rumors that those two are in talks for a basketball only arrangement. This is still a struggle for survival between the ACC and Big 12. Once you increase your inventory for basketball push for separation from the NCAA and a breakaway in a pay for play league and more than double your revenue in hoops (think x 2.25). The SEC will back this.

Partner your football in a scheduling alliance in house with the SEC. ESPN would be amenable. It works for bowls as well and the fans would like the distances. SEC schools raise your viewership and value. We both should have 3 OOC games to be played against other P5's, let's dedicate 2 of them with each other and keep that money in house.

The ACC would still offer quite the mix of competition for Notre Dame to carve out a nice schedule. The total sports package should suit them. They could remain independent or join fully when something else could unfold to entice them. Something I'll mention below.

Now for the long game. If the SEC locks down the football recruiting states, shares them naturally with the ACC, and the ACC locks down East Coast basketball and adds SW basketball to it as well as other SW football brands, you become the #1 basketball product in terms of quality and with the depth of inventory for the Winter programming you can begin with the new contract to piece out your inventory for basketball as the Big 10 does for football. Only you have a better product in hoops than they have in football so for basketball prices you should command the #1 contract for that sport.

With less ability to access Southern recruits the Big 10 schools married to the PAC schools would both suffer the same slow slide in competitive ability. Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, and possibly Michigan and Wisconsin may have to rethink their associations. Toss those schools into the mix 13 years down the line to receive access to Southern recruiting without having to slog through an SEC schedule and ESPN now has the two power conferences for all sports without the laggards in the PAC and Big 10. Remember if you don't go to them, eventually they have to come to you. This is how a well-funded through hoops ACC moves from #3 to #2, possibly #1 if the SEC becomes complacent.

Recruiting, Money and publicity would be your tools. Hoops enhances your exposure tremendously with the array of schools you would represent. With the right football adds from the North you become at least an equal player with the SEC.

Whether you get to such a position or not isn't as relevant as striving to get there. You will see improvement across the board just by knowing what you are trying to achieve.

You may criticize my suggestions, but the one knock I have on the ACC in its entire realignment history, is that it never acted outside of its comfort zone and never took a big risk.

Delaney launched a network without ESPN's help. Roy Kramer began divisional play with a Conference Championship game. It could have flopped. The ACC stockpiled a few Big East schools with which they were comfortable in hoops fit. You grafted in a couple of football brands and hoped that would preserve what you had. It didn't. And it didn't because hoops paid less, but remained your emphasis.

Well, the worm will turn in favor of basketball again. Circle the wagons and beef it up now. Then use your recruiting grounds to bring in big time names in football when they get locked out of the South and need exposure to Deep South recruiting to remain viable. They have 100,000 seat stadia which need filling. Be a little ruthless and aggressive. Right now, you are Conference #3 in revenue. Act like it instead of waiting for the inevitable, which will only happen if you do nothing to prevent it.

The SEC almost has the conference it wants. Use what you do best, basketball, and your native soil to grow your football. You can't get them now, they would laugh. In 2034 if the SEC is locked down they won't be laughing, they'll be worried. You are already better in basketball. Take away their options in the NE in that sport, grow your network, and lure what you want in when the time is right.

In the meantime, selling the ACCN in most of the NE states for hoops and in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virgina for football, and perhaps in any PAC states the Big 12 picks up is your ticket to closing that gap. Remember the Big 12 still doesn't have a network. You do.

But none of it will happen if you don't try, or you just wait for your fate. If Phillips won't pull the trigger get somebody else, hopefully someone with a personal stake in the ACC. And since it can't happen in a house divided. Let the opposition go. Build again in unity.

JR

Another thought...The ACC's greatest need is more brand names. Oregon and Washington are two of the best available, so I'd find a way to make it work.

Take the best 5 PAC brand/market: Oregon, Washington, Utah, Arizona State, Stanford. I'd pass on Cal. They stink at everything and they're bankrupt.

(02-15-2023 01:04 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:08 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The issues:

1. Basketball is undervalued under the NCAA

2. Your football depth needs to be strengthened.

3. Your GOR needs to be opened through additions and renegotiated.

4. You don't need the PAC schools. Their numbers are weaker than your own.

5. You need an agreement between member schools as to placing Revenue as your top priority in considering additions.

6. You should look to grow in ways which are not typical of the SEC and Big 10 and do so before the Big 12 or PAC 12 explores these options.

7. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia either need to be central to the identity of the ACC or jettisoned for a new identity.

8. If Florida State cannot be satisfied you should let them go. They have strong options. Clemson does not have as strong of a bargaining position vis a vie the SEC and has none with the Big 10. The ACC needs Clemson to anchor your football value. Florida State is important as well, but not at the price of unity.

Suggestions:

Look for schools with a higher valuations, better attendance, and better viewership numbers than your own. There are more than a few among the Big 12. It is not time for academic snobbery if you want to keep your conference together. Like it or not Louisville truly adds to your value. Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas State, and even Iowa State all add markets. So too does WVU which fits nicely with Pitt, Syracuse, and B.C. If the Big 12 picks up any PAC schools incorporate those 2 or 4 with your raid or merge. You are adding hoops power there as well as football gravitas.

Think a maximum of 24 football schools, but as many divisions for hoops to dominate that sport and the new tournament's revenue as you can add if they are hoops only. You could have a Big East Division, a Big 12 division and an ACC division for hoops. Take the top 2 from each of those divisional tournaments and 2 at large, or ever how many is profitable, for the ACC tourney. Make a mint in house in what you do best. The market synergy on this kind of hoops move would pay in terms of the ACCN and in negotiations on value as you would bargaining as a collective.

If Duke, UNC, and Virginia can't live with the Big 12 schools, or Big East hoops teams, let them leave. If Duke, UNC and Virginia are behind these moves they stay. The SEC would likely appease ESPN if they simply added Kansas and Florida State to move to 18.

Build leverage for basketball through the adding of these schools. Incorporate the Big East before the Big 12 does. There are a lot of rumors that those two are in talks for a basketball only arrangement. This is still a struggle for survival between the ACC and Big 12. Once you increase your inventory for basketball push for separation from the NCAA and a breakaway in a pay for play league and more than double your revenue in hoops (think x 2.25). The SEC will back this.

Partner your football in a scheduling alliance in house with the SEC. ESPN would be amenable. It works for bowls as well and the fans would like the distances. SEC schools raise your viewership and value. We both should have 3 OOC games to be played against other P5's, let's dedicate 2 of them with each other and keep that money in house.

The ACC would still offer quite the mix of competition for Notre Dame to carve out a nice schedule. The total sports package should suit them. They could remain independent or join fully when something else could unfold to entice them. Something I'll mention below.

Now for the long game. If the SEC locks down the football recruiting states, shares them naturally with the ACC, and the ACC locks down East Coast basketball and adds SW basketball to it as well as other SW football brands, you become the #1 basketball product in terms of quality and with the depth of inventory for the Winter programming you can begin with the new contract to piece out your inventory for basketball as the Big 10 does for football. Only you have a better product in hoops than they have in football so for basketball prices you should command the #1 contract for that sport.

With less ability to access Southern recruits the Big 10 schools married to the PAC schools would both suffer the same slow slide in competitive ability. Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, and possibly Michigan and Wisconsin may have to rethink their associations. Toss those schools into the mix 13 years down the line to receive access to Southern recruiting without having to slog through an SEC schedule and ESPN now has the two power conferences for all sports without the laggards in the PAC and Big 10. Remember if you don't go to them, eventually they have to come to you. This is how a well-funded through hoops ACC moves from #3 to #2, possibly #1 if the SEC becomes complacent.

Recruiting, Money and publicity would be your tools. Hoops enhances your exposure tremendously with the array of schools you would represent. With the right football adds from the North you become at least an equal player with the SEC.

Whether you get to such a position or not isn't as relevant as striving to get there. You will see improvement across the board just by knowing what you are trying to achieve.

You may criticize my suggestions, but the one knock I have on the ACC in its entire realignment history, is that it never acted outside of its comfort zone and never took a big risk.

Delaney launched a network without ESPN's help. Roy Kramer began divisional play with a Conference Championship game. It could have flopped. The ACC stockpiled a few Big East schools with which they were comfortable in hoops fit. You grafted in a couple of football brands and hoped that would preserve what you had. It didn't. And it didn't because hoops paid less, but remained your emphasis.

Well, the worm will turn in favor of basketball again. Circle the wagons and beef it up now. Then use your recruiting grounds to bring in big time names in football when they get locked out of the South and need exposure to Deep South recruiting to remain viable. They have 100,000 seat stadia which need filling. Be a little ruthless and aggressive. Right now, you are Conference #3 in revenue. Act like it instead of waiting for the inevitable, which will only happen if you do nothing to prevent it.

The SEC almost has the conference it wants. Use what you do best, basketball, and your native soil to grow your football. You can't get them now, they would laugh. In 2034 if the SEC is locked down they won't be laughing, they'll be worried. You are already better in basketball. Take away their options in the NE in that sport, grow your network, and lure what you want in when the time is right.

In the meantime, selling the ACCN in most of the NE states for hoops and in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa and West Virgina for football, and perhaps in any PAC states the Big 12 picks up is your ticket to closing that gap. Remember the Big 12 still doesn't have a network. You do.

But none of it will happen if you don't try, or you just wait for your fate. If Phillips won't pull the trigger get somebody else, hopefully someone with a personal stake in the ACC. And since it can't happen in a house divided. Let the opposition go. Build again in unity.

JR

Another thought...The ACC's greatest need is more brand names. Oregon and Washington are two of the best available, so I'd find a way to make it work.

Take the best 5 PAC brand/market: Oregon, Washington, Utah, Arizona State, Stanford. I'd pass on Cal. They stink at everything and they're bankrupt.

I would think the Big 10 is about to be able to passively take who they wish from the those schools. Washington will be at the top of that list as the most valuable. They already have 2 & 3. They would already have had Washington if there wasn't division internal the Big 10 over Oregon's academic standing in spite of them being AAU. Academics in the Big 10 would prefer Stanford, though they are less valuable.

If two more head to the Big 10 that makes any remaining schools of value an Island for the ACC and raises travel. Colorado? Arizona and Arizona State with Utah to the Big 12 makes sense with BYU already there and at that point perhaps Colorado follows suit, or pairs with Kansas to move elsewhere. As I said they may look valuable but look at their actual numbers. Of that remaining group ASU has the best numbers and revenue production. They just aren't AAU. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Big 10 take 3 for a West Coast division of 5. That cuts their travel but gives them the markets they want.

Travel costs will remain high. It will be a consideration. You need schools which have a higher average attendance, a higher % of viewers to population, and which represent new markets and which exceed the MEAN revenue of the ACC even before the move. 32 valuable pieces are off the board in the SEC and Big 10. Any school other than Notre Dame is already outside of the top 20 in the nation. When Washington is taken that removes the remaining top 25 school in metrics. To put that in perspective Clemson was 26th last year in revenue generation.

What is untapped are basketball schools with an upside. Pay for play eventually opens that up. Right now it is 20% of the revenue equation. Double that and it becomes a gap closer. Build that up before it doubles and the Big 10 and SEC's lack of foresight to cover that base helps you catch up quicker. Meanwhile, you get the football schools with remaining value while you can.

If Yormark is able to siphon the 4 corners schools the Big 12 becomes an issue again for the ACC. Check out the SBJ podcast on the main forum. It paints a dire picture for the PAC 12.

These sound like intermediate chess moves. It feels like a P2 is where we are headed. Where each one is under a different media banner.

(02-15-2023 02:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  These sound like intermediate chess moves. It feels like a P2 is where we are headed. Where each one is under a different media banner.

The money indicates this, but only until 2036. When the Boomers have passed statistically (the youngest will be 74 in 2036) the two clusters will no longer be driven by football money and even hoops money will begin to fade. Culturally the trailing generations have less disposable income, and different interests when you get past the X'ers.

In the meantime, if the ACC becomes the #3 conference in a 3 conference world their schools enhance their bargaining position moving forward in relation to the other two. I think when we are only down to two it will be for survival, not for power projection.

As a former SC season ticket holder I believe it’s a mistake to throw away your PAC identity for The Big Ten. It won’t be said for a few years but it will happen. Nebraska hasn’t been the same since joining The Big Ten and I expect the same from SC

(02-15-2023 02:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  These sound like intermediate chess moves. It feels like a P2 is where we are headed. Where each one is under a different media banner.

The problem for most schools is, they can't assume they are part of the "we" that's headed to the P2. If you're not planning for a P3 future, you're not doing you job!

(02-15-2023 02:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  These sound like intermediate chess moves. It feels like a P2 is where we are headed. Where each one is under a different media banner.

The problem for most schools is, they can't assume they are part of the "we" that's headed to the P2. If you're not planning for a P3 future, you're not doing you job!

Exactly!

On a more somber note this morning, Yormark said in an interview that the Big 12 has signed a new GOR. Looks like the ACC's best prospect for moving forward with additions and hopefully a renegotiation is now the PAC 12. Unless you just decided to add South Florida or someone else.

This means Kansas is off the board for anyone in the immediate future, unless they have some kind of assurance to the contrary. We'll see. There's always a merger possibility. It would tie in with unequal revenue sharing.

(02-16-2023 02:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  These sound like intermediate chess moves. It feels like a P2 is where we are headed. Where each one is under a different media banner.

The problem for most schools is, they can't assume they are part of the "we" that's headed to the P2. If you're not planning for a P3 future, you're not doing you job!

Exactly!

On a more somber note this morning, Yormark said in an interview that the Big 12 has signed a new GOR. Looks like the ACC's best prospect for moving forward with additions and hopefully a renegotiation is now the PAC 12. Unless you just decided to add South Florida or someone else.

This means Kansas is off the board for anyone in the immediate future, unless they have some kind of assurance to the contrary. We'll see. There's always a merger possibility. It would tie in with unequal revenue sharing.

I don’t believe half of what Yormark says. He says something and Big 12 fans dissect every word trying to figure out what he means. If The Big 12 had signed a GOR extension wouldn’t it be everywhere in the media? That would be another opportunity for him to pump up his conference and he doesn’t miss an opportunity to cheerlead for The Big 12.

If all schools have signed a GOR extension you can bet it’s for a short 5-7 years. Kansas, even WVU, isn’t going to tie itself to The Big 12 with another chance to join The Big Ten or The SEC come 2032 or so.

(02-16-2023 02:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  These sound like intermediate chess moves. It feels like a P2 is where we are headed. Where each one is under a different media banner.

The problem for most schools is, they can't assume they are part of the "we" that's headed to the P2. If you're not planning for a P3 future, you're not doing you job!

Exactly!

On a more somber note this morning, Yormark said in an interview that the Big 12 has signed a new GOR. Looks like the ACC's best prospect for moving forward with additions and hopefully a renegotiation is now the PAC 12. Unless you just decided to add South Florida or someone else.

This means Kansas is off the board for anyone in the immediate future, unless they have some kind of assurance to the contrary. We'll see. There's always a merger possibility. It would tie in with unequal revenue sharing.

The ACC's future has been in ESPN's hands for quite some time.
From a business standpoint, ESPN and FOX are getting all of the content they want out of the Big 12 and only paying half-price since both networks share the content and the expense of the Big 12.

Merger with unequal revenue sharing would affect SEC teams just the same as their ACC counterparts. Even if both conferences kept the same pay structure they have now, the only savings would be in rent and staffing. If that were a possibility, why would the ACC be going to the expense of moving their headquarters from Greensboro to Charlotte (unless the SEC were to move to Charlotte, too). Leases have been signed in Charlotte so much of any merged savings have already evaporated.

It's possible that ESPN does absolutely nothing.
They have all of the content they need (with the exception of a late night window) under contract for the foreseeable future.

(02-16-2023 05:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-16-2023 02:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-15-2023 02:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  These sound like intermediate chess moves. It feels like a P2 is where we are headed. Where each one is under a different media banner.

The problem for most schools is, they can't assume they are part of the "we" that's headed to the P2. If you're not planning for a P3 future, you're not doing you job!

Exactly!

On a more somber note this morning, Yormark said in an interview that the Big 12 has signed a new GOR. Looks like the ACC's best prospect for moving forward with additions and hopefully a renegotiation is now the PAC 12. Unless you just decided to add South Florida or someone else.

This means Kansas is off the board for anyone in the immediate future, unless they have some kind of assurance to the contrary. We'll see. There's always a merger possibility. It would tie in with unequal revenue sharing.

The ACC's future has been in ESPN's hands for quite some time.
From a business standpoint, ESPN and FOX are getting all of the content they want out of the Big 12 and only paying half-price since both networks share the content and the expense of the Big 12.

Merger with unequal revenue sharing would affect SEC teams just the same as their ACC counterparts. Even if both conferences kept the same pay structure they have now, the only savings would be in rent and staffing. If that were a possibility, why would the ACC be going to the expense of moving their headquarters from Greensboro to Charlotte (unless the SEC were to move to Charlotte, too). Leases have been signed in Charlotte so much of any merged savings have already evaporated.

It's possible that ESPN does absolutely nothing.
They have all of the content they need (with the exception of a late night window) under contract for the foreseeable future.

The ACC can't be ruled by what ESPN wants. Consider it, sure, but then make your own plans - what's best for the ACC, not just for the Mouse!

The aggressive move is to work with top-end PAC programs and ESPN on synergies created by a 20+ member conference. The existing GOR, plus larger membership, provides flexibility to experiment with uneven scheduling and revenue sharing. The ACC has strong historical bonds with the SEC, and ESPN is financially incentivized to further leverage those relationships. Adding a PAC contingent would help build new rivalries with B1G schools. The B1G and SEC are gradually separating themselves financially…expansion ensures that the ACC is the best alternative for non-P2 programs that strive for national championships. Quit pretending that conference alignment is a 100 year decision and build a plan that works for the next 10 to 20 years.

1) invite 8 pac 12 schools, no WSU/OSU

2) invite 1 more school to get to 24 with 3 divisions of 8. If the big 12 signed a GOR than the pool is UConn, temple, SMU, Tulane, Georgetown, etc. I might go with a basketball only school, than run each division as a stand alone conference. For football, the 2 eastern divisions could run a 16 team format

3) change the name to American Coast conference.

(02-16-2023 01:14 PM)bluesox Wrote:  1) invite 8 pac 12 schools, no WSU/OSU

2) invite 1 more school to get to 24 with 3 divisions of 8. If the big 12 signed a GOR than the pool is UConn, temple, SMU, Tulane, Georgetown, etc. I might go with a basketball only school, than run each division as a stand alone conference. For football, the 2 eastern divisions could run a 16 team format

3) change the name to American Coast conference.

I like the aggressive move.
14 + 8 = 22, not 23 (can't count ND... yet)
Could grease the skids by making Klavkoff the new Commissioner once the B1G hires Phillips.

You could also just have a western division of 10 (8 pac schools + SD state and X) and an eastern division of 15 or maybe add 1 to get to 16. That probably is the better plan. First move is to invite the 8 pac schools and change the name to American coast conference. Also, get ND to play 6 games under the TV deal, BC, Miami, Stanford every year + 3 rotations