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The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
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mvfcfan Offline
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The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
Which school is it and why? Most of us I think would agree that CSU is the worst, and many of us are a little surprised that their doors are still open. Not sure who would be 2nd worse though.
01-24-2023 08:04 PM
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
Savannah St. was there for a while before they dropped down. South Carolina St. was having trouble keeping its doors open, but seems to be stable now.

Not sure who would be second worst.
01-24-2023 08:28 PM
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-24-2023 08:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  Savannah St. was there for a while before they dropped down. South Carolina St. was having trouble keeping its doors open, but seems to be stable now.

Not sure who would be second worst.

Cal State Northridge is pretty bad.
01-24-2023 08:31 PM
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darkdragon99 Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
What about the Rice Owls ?

Football program went 5-7. Only 7 bowl wins all time.
Only 4 NCAA basketball tournament appearances in history.
Baseball program, no longer a powerhouse and has been under .500 since Wayne Graham retired. Probably wont get back to being a powerhouse again.
No softball team
Women's basketball only 3 NCAA tournament appearances.

I dont know about soccer, volleyball, golf, and tennis but it doesnt appear they are powerhouses in those sports. Basically, the baseball program was carrying the entire athletic dept. but thats no longer the case.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2023 09:09 PM by darkdragon99.)
01-24-2023 09:03 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
The answer would be a school that's never talked about along the lines of a Maryland Eastern Shore or St Francis-Brooklyn. A case could be made for MVSU or Coppin St but Jerry Rice and the 15-2 upset probably disqualifies those schools.
01-24-2023 09:50 PM
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-24-2023 09:03 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What about the Rice Owls ?

It seems to me all FBS schools get a pass. Especially Rice. This is a small school with amazing academics, and they are still making FBS work somehow.
01-24-2023 10:23 PM
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-24-2023 09:03 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What about the Rice Owls ?

Football program went 5-7. Only 7 bowl wins all time.
Only 4 NCAA basketball tournament appearances in history.
Baseball program, no longer a powerhouse and has been under .500 since Wayne Graham retired. Probably wont get back to being a powerhouse again.
No softball team
Women's basketball only 3 NCAA tournament appearances.

I dont know about soccer, volleyball, golf, and tennis but it doesnt appear they are powerhouses in those sports. Basically, the baseball program was carrying the entire athletic dept. but thats no longer the case.

Rice is one of the healthiest athletic departments. They have plenty of money to support the level they choose. They did win a CWS. Lots of schools have no titles of any sort. There are P5 schools with fewer NCAA tourney appearances. Northwestern has 1. While Nebraska has 7, they have never won a game, unlike Rice.
01-24-2023 10:27 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-24-2023 10:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-24-2023 09:03 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What about the Rice Owls ?

Football program went 5-7. Only 7 bowl wins all time.
Only 4 NCAA basketball tournament appearances in history.
Baseball program, no longer a powerhouse and has been under .500 since Wayne Graham retired. Probably wont get back to being a powerhouse again.
No softball team
Women's basketball only 3 NCAA tournament appearances.

I dont know about soccer, volleyball, golf, and tennis but it doesnt appear they are powerhouses in those sports. Basically, the baseball program was carrying the entire athletic dept. but thats no longer the case.

Rice is one of the healthiest athletic departments. They have plenty of money to support the level they choose. They did win a CWS. Lots of schools have no titles of any sort. There are P5 schools with fewer NCAA tourney appearances. Northwestern has 1. While Nebraska has 7, they have never won a game, unlike Rice.

Yeah, the CWS Champs + 7 bowl wins + 4 NCAAT appearances alone would clear Rice from the bottom-100 D1 athletic departments.
01-24-2023 10:33 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
Presbyterian is probably down there.

Since moving up to the FCS in 2008, they've had 2 winning seasons, a 6-5 record in 2014 and a 4-3 record in the shortened 2020 season. They recently dropped scholarships and moved to the Pioneer league. They drew all of 1,300 fans for their homecoming game, and often have under 1,000.

Men's basketball has 1 winning season since moving up to D1. Their best attended game this season drew 635 people, and the last time they cracked 1,000 people was February 2019.

Women's team has 4 winning seasons in D1 (one of those being the pandemic season).

Their other sports are mostly the same. Softball is maybe on the upswing, they went 36-15 last year, their first non-pandemic season with a winning record since 2011.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2023 10:53 PM by TDenverFan.)
01-24-2023 10:53 PM
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
Western Illinois seems bad.
01-24-2023 11:28 PM
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unalions Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
Mississippi Valley State. Ongoing issues including their football stadium being closed down. Low enrollment, etc.

Neighboring D2 Delta State is also having enrollment issues.

They need to merge those two into a more competitive D1/FCS program. Might be a good addition to the Southland.
01-25-2023 12:06 AM
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-25-2023 12:06 AM)unalions Wrote:  Mississippi Valley State. Ongoing issues including their football stadium being closed down. Low enrollment, etc.

Neighboring D2 Delta State is also having enrollment issues.

They need to merge those two into a more competitive D1/FCS program. Might be a good addition to the Southland.

Mississippi Valley is tiny. Merging them would help both schools. And perhaps Alcorn and Jackson St. as well. Does Mississippi really need 3 state HBCUs?
01-25-2023 12:40 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-24-2023 08:31 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(01-24-2023 08:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  Savannah St. was there for a while before they dropped down. South Carolina St. was having trouble keeping its doors open, but seems to be stable now.

Not sure who would be second worst.

Cal State Northridge is pretty bad.

Not sure. UC-Riverside, Grambling State and Bethune-Cookman are pretty bad. UC-Riverside was considering dropping some sports or all sports for awhile.
01-25-2023 12:57 AM
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-24-2023 10:53 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Presbyterian is probably down there.

Since moving up to the FCS in 2008, they've had 2 winning seasons, a 6-5 record in 2014 and a 4-3 record in the shortened 2020 season. They recently dropped scholarships and moved to the Pioneer league. They drew all of 1,300 fans for their homecoming game, and often have under 1,000.

Men's basketball has 1 winning season since moving up to D1. Their best attended game this season drew 635 people, and the last time they cracked 1,000 people was February 2019.

Women's team has 4 winning seasons in D1 (one of those being the pandemic season).

Their other sports are mostly the same. Softball is maybe on the upswing, they went 36-15 last year, their first non-pandemic season with a winning record since 2011.

That choice seems reasonable. I'm not sure if they've been D1 long enough to count tho if it's only been since 2008.

I agree FBS schools s/b excluded. Especially b/c if they're bad at football, they're usually good at another sport like basketball, baseball, or soccer. Plus 'only 7 bowl wins' excludes Rice b/c 1/2 the MAC doesn't even have 5.
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-24-2023 09:03 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What about the Rice Owls ?

Football program went 5-7. Only 7 bowl wins all time.
Only 4 NCAA basketball tournament appearances in history.
Baseball program, no longer a powerhouse and has been under .500 since Wayne Graham retired. Probably wont get back to being a powerhouse again.
No softball team
Women's basketball only 3 NCAA tournament appearances.

I dont know about soccer, volleyball, golf, and tennis but it doesnt appear they are powerhouses in those sports. Basically, the baseball program was carrying the entire athletic dept. but thats no longer the case.

Correction: Football program went 5-8

Fun fact: Rice has more losses in the NCAA basketball tournament than appearances, going 2-5 in four appearances.

Note: Volleyball has made the NCAA tournament five consecutive years now. Ranked in the top 20 last season.
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
I have to guess that the worst is not Chicago State at all, but some SWAC or MEAC school with a similar athletic budget to Chicago State, or not much higher, WHILE supporting FCS football.

In addition, women’s sports carry so little weight to most people, unless a school is really having a lot of success in some women’s sports that somehow translates into money, it doesn’t really matter if women’s basketball is 0-30 or 15-15, or if women’s track was 8th or 3rd in the conference. Few us know or care.

In the sport that matters to non FB schools, Men’s Basketball, Chicago State may have a poor record but they are nowhere near the worst out there. Here’s how many members some conferences currently have below Chicago State in the NET rankings-

SWAC-9 schools currently below Chicago State
NEC-8
Southland-6
Colonial-5
OVC-5
ASun-5
MAC-4
Summit-3
Am East-3
MVC-2
Horizon-2
Big Sky-2
Sunbelt-2
WAC-2
MEAC-2
7 more conferences have 1, including the ACC, AAC and PAC 12.

Only 7 conferences out of 32 don’t have a team below Chicago State.

Chicago State seems to be a genuine fixation on here, partly because of their conference situation, but don’t over estimate other schools just because they are in a part of the country where there are enough bad athletic programs to form an entire conference and to fly under the radar.

If many other schools faced the scrutiny Chicago State has lately, people would see that they have plenty of company. Entire conferences full of company.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 08:48 AM by Todor.)
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
Don't forget UMass!!!02-13-banana01-lauramac2
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ZooMass84 Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-25-2023 12:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-25-2023 12:06 AM)unalions Wrote:  Mississippi Valley State. Ongoing issues including their football stadium being closed down. Low enrollment, etc.

Neighboring D2 Delta State is also having enrollment issues.

They need to merge those two into a more competitive D1/FCS program. Might be a good addition to the Southland.

Mississippi Valley is tiny. Merging them would help both schools. And perhaps Alcorn and Jackson St. as well. Does Mississippi really need 3 state HBCUs?
Didn't Jerry Rice go there?
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Just Joe Offline
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
(01-25-2023 12:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-25-2023 12:06 AM)unalions Wrote:  Mississippi Valley State. Ongoing issues including their football stadium being closed down. Low enrollment, etc.

Neighboring D2 Delta State is also having enrollment issues.

They need to merge those two into a more competitive D1/FCS program. Might be a good addition to the Southland.

Mississippi Valley is tiny. Merging them would help both schools. And perhaps Alcorn and Jackson St. as well. Does Mississippi really need 3 state HBCUs?

That exact proposal (merging all 3 FCS HBCUs) was discussed 10-15 years ago. There was a ton of pushback and it went nowhere.
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RE: The 2nd worst D1 Athletic Dept behind Chicago State?
The thing that makes Chicago State so unique isn't that their primary sports are pretty bad. Todor is right, Chicago State basketball has plenty of company among low majors for basketball futility. I don't think there's a huge difference between Cougar basketball over the last six years and like, a bad NEC, AEC or Ivy team.

What sets them apart is the administrative chaos. Not many schools have had to cancel games because of improperly filed compliance paperwork like CSU has. Not many schools have hired a new AD like, every three years, like CSU has. Not many D1 schools were flirting with outright closure over the last decade, or have struggled to staff key internal roles, like CSU.

I don't know if it is the most dysfunctional department in D1, but it's probably close, and that's for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with what you see in a box score or on the NET.

I wouldn't put Rice anywhere close to the worst athletic department list. FIU under Pete Garcia might have been in that conversation, but I can't think of any FBS school in that world right now.
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