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Ideal FCS realignment
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EKUSteve Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(01-24-2023 09:33 AM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 07:30 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 03:53 PM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 07:43 AM)Blue76 Wrote:  To start bring all the HBCU’s together under one umbrella conference

Split into three divisions:
Atlantic: Del State, Hampton, Howard, Morgan, Norfolk, NC AT, NC Central
Southwest: Bama AM, Bama State, B-C, Fla AM, Miss Valley, SC State, Tenn State
Southeast: Alcorn, Pine Bluff, Grambling, Jackson St, PVAMU, Southern, Texas Sthn

Three champs plus best other play in semi and winners play in Celebration Bowl.

Next assume ASUN-WAC stay at FCS and join them with Big Sky, CAA & MVFL

upper tier playoff

After Hampton & NC AT are gone we have:
CAA 13 Big Sky 12 MVFL 12 ASUN_WAC 10 (with UTRGV)

Move Campbell or Elon to ASUN-WAC or both and switch EKU to CAA, you could also juggle others like Utah Tech/SUU and NAU/UNC but not essential.

Finally add SEMO to ASUN-WAC and you get 4 conferences of 12 teams

Champions get 1st Round bye, next 8 seeded for 12 team playoff (or a simple 16/24 team playoff)

Then for lower tier play off:

NEC (8), OVC (8) (minus TSU & SEMO), Patriot (7), SoCon (9), Southland (8)
Move VMI to Patriot for 5 conferences of 8 plus Pioneer (11)

5 champions get 1st Round bye, Pioneer champion plus next 5 seeded for 11 team playoff (or a simple 16/24 team playoff)

Ivy stays outside post season

ASUN/WAC is a bottom feeder league. Southland is a stronger league, even with the moves you mention.

Nope...

How did the ASUN/WAC do in the playoffs this year?

We sucked in our playoff game as out defense was non-existent at the end of the season.
01-29-2023 07:43 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(01-24-2023 03:20 PM)Illinoisking91 Wrote:  Here is the thing. The WACsun is trying to go FBS because THEY WANT IT. I'm sure if the Big Sky or the CAA or MVFC wanted it they would have attempted it. They aren't saying hey we are better than everyone so please let us be FBS or anything special. They think they have a shot so they are taking it.

True, but here's the other side of the coin: none of the current G5 conferences want the A/W to move up, and I would say that interest is lukewarm at best from the P5. It’s like me saying that I want to date Mariah Carey, but if she doesn't want to date me, why should I want to pursue that anyway???
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2023 08:03 AM by DawgNBama.)
01-30-2023 08:02 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
Boot all the non-football and schools that don't offered football scholarships out of D1, and bring in schools from D2 that have football. If you want to stay in D1? You must have to offer scholarship footballs. Then you will get rid of freeloaders like the Big East, WCC, ETC that don't have football.
01-30-2023 11:35 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(01-30-2023 11:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boot all the non-football and schools that don't offered football scholarships out of D1, and bring in schools from D2 that have football. If you want to stay in D1? You must have to offer scholarship footballs. Then you will get rid of freeloaders like the Big East, WCC, ETC that don't have football.

I say boot all schools that don't offer the full compliment of cross-country scholarships out of Division I. Get rid of those free-loaders.




Newsflash - every single one of the Big East schools are more valuable to Division I then the entire DII, DIII and NAIA combined.
01-30-2023 12:05 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
If I could create my "ideal but still somewhat realistic" conference for W&M, it would look something like this:

Full members:

W&M
Delaware
Towson
Howard
Stony Brook
Holy Cross
Elon
VMI

Football only:
Richmond
Nova

Non football:
UNCW
College of Charleston
Northeastern
Hofstra

Some of the programs (Holy Cross/VMI/Hofstra/Northeastern I'm kinda iffy on, and you could kick them out or add in schools like NC A&T/Hampton/UNCG/Fairfield/Siena/Albany/Monmouth/etc)

Should be a generally pretty competitive conference at the FCS level that features a fair amount of regional rivals, strong academic programs, bigger markets (good for alumni/recruiting purposes, obviously this league isn't getting a massive TV deal), and schools with solid fan bases.

By somewhat-realistic I made the assumption that no G5 teams would move down, and no teams currently in the A10 would want to join. Obviously something like the old CAA, with ODU/VCU/JMU/Mason, is a better conference for W&M.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2023 02:44 PM by TDenverFan.)
01-30-2023 02:41 PM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(01-30-2023 02:41 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  If I could create my "ideal but still somewhat realistic" conference for W&M, it would look something like this:

Full members:

W&M
Delaware
Towson
Howard
Stony Brook
Holy Cross
Elon
VMI

Football only:
Richmond
Nova

Non football:
UNCW
College of Charleston
Northeastern
Hofstra

Some of the programs (Holy Cross/VMI/Hofstra/Northeastern I'm kinda iffy on, and you could kick them out or add in schools like NC A&T/Hampton/UNCG/Fairfield/Siena/Albany/Monmouth/etc)

Should be a generally pretty competitive conference at the FCS level that features a fair amount of regional rivals, strong academic programs, bigger markets (good for alumni/recruiting purposes, obviously this league isn't getting a massive TV deal), and schools with solid fan bases.

By somewhat-realistic I made the assumption that no G5 teams would move down, and no teams currently in the A10 would want to join. Obviously something like the old CAA, with ODU/VCU/JMU/Mason, is a better conference for W&M.

I disagree with your last comment. I have heard it before but the facts are on the basketball side - the interest, success and attendance of W&M basketball all increased - somewhat dramatically - when those schools left the CAA. I don’t mind OOC games, particularly ODU, but that old CAA was not a golden period for W&M. Plus, as a national University, I think a grouping of more academic schools in an extended region is a better home.

The current CAA is as good as it gets right now for all sports. I like your tweaked line-up though not a fan of Howard. I would replace since we are just playing with UNH or Lehigh.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2023 03:17 PM by Sitting bull.)
01-30-2023 03:13 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(01-30-2023 11:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Boot all the non-football and schools that don't offered football scholarships out of D1, and bring in schools from D2 that have football.

West Point, we hardly knew ye.
01-30-2023 03:20 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(01-30-2023 03:13 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 02:41 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  (Cut out my post to save space)

I disagree with your last comment. I have heard it before but the facts are on the basketball side - the interest, success and attendance of W&M basketball all increased - somewhat dramatically - when those schools left the CAA. I don’t mind OOC games, particularly ODU, but that old CAA was not a golden period for W&M. Plus, as a national University, I think a grouping of more academic schools in an extended region is a better home.

The current CAA is as good as it gets right now for all sports. I like your tweaked line-up though not a fan of Howard. I would replace since we are just playing with UNH or Lehigh.

Yeah, that's fair. The CAA gets us games in cities where we recruit our undergrad student body from, and where our alums live. That's partly why I like Howard, gets us games in DC against a well respected university.

If Campbell were located like 20 miles north and in the Raleigh metro, I'd like their inclusion a lot more.
01-30-2023 06:25 PM
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andybible1995 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
Here's another conference that I've come up with. It consists of teams only in North and South Carolina. Since the name Conference Carolinas exists at the D2 level, I've reversed the name and instead will call it the Carolina Conference

The teams in this conference are:

Campbell
Charleston Southern
Citadel
Davidson
Elon
Furman
Gardner-Webb
Presbyterian
Western Carolina
Wofford

Both states have enough non-football schools to form a separate conference just for them.

The teams in the no name non-football conference are:

College of Charleston
High Point
Queens
UNC-Asheville
UNC-Greensboro
UNC-Wilmington
USC-Upstate
Winthrop
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2023 09:37 AM by andybible1995.)
01-31-2023 04:48 AM
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eku05 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
Quote:True, but here's the other side of the coin: none of the current G5 conferences want the A/W to move up, and I would say that interest is lukewarm at best from the P5. It’s like me saying that I want to date Mariah Carey, but if she doesn't want to date me, why should I want to pursue that anyway???

This isn't dating. It's competing. The whole problem with the current system is that schools are often in position to gatekeep who they do and do not have to compete with. If you want to date someone then, presumably, you care about them on some level. You wouldn't want to negatively affect that person.

I could not care less if we negatively affect G5 schools by doing what we're attempting to do. Frankly...I kind of hope we negatively affect them to some degree. I'm tired of other schools being able to maintain some perceived leg up on us by just refusing to compete on even terms.

Either let us into the current system, or we'll try our best to blow that system up. It may or may not work. This post is not an attempt to comment on that aspect of things. But bowing out just because other schools don't want us there? Give me a break.

I really like the WACSUN group and our opportunity to grow together whether we're doing it at the FCS or FBS level. *If* we manage to get the group to really stick together, then I think some good things will happen one way or another. We'll see.
02-01-2023 11:59 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(02-01-2023 11:59 AM)eku05 Wrote:  
Quote:True, but here's the other side of the coin: none of the current G5 conferences want the A/W to move up, and I would say that interest is lukewarm at best from the P5. It’s like me saying that I want to date Mariah Carey, but if she doesn't want to date me, why should I want to pursue that anyway???

This isn't dating. It's competing. The whole problem with the current system is that schools are often in position to gatekeep who they do and do not have to compete with. If you want to date someone then, presumably, you care about them on some level. You wouldn't want to negatively affect that person.

I could not care less if we negatively affect G5 schools by doing what we're attempting to do. Frankly...I kind of hope we negatively affect them to some degree. I'm tired of other schools being able to maintain some perceived leg up on us by just refusing to compete on even terms.

Either let us into the current system, or we'll try our best to blow that system up. It may or may not work. This post is not an attempt to comment on that aspect of things. But bowing out just because other schools don't want us there? Give me a break.

I really like the WACSUN group and our opportunity to grow together whether we're doing it at the FCS or FBS level. *If* we manage to get the group to really stick together, then I think some good things will happen one way or another. We'll see.

I hear ya, but if you guys want that CFP $$$, then you will need approval from either the G5 (very unlikely) or the P5 (not very likely either, IMO). The whole point of WACSUN going FBS is to get that CFP $$'s, correct? What's the point in going FBS if you're only getting FCS sized shares?? Wouldn't it be better just to stay in FCS??
02-01-2023 12:57 PM
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Blue76 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(02-01-2023 12:57 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(02-01-2023 11:59 AM)eku05 Wrote:  
Quote:True, but here's the other side of the coin: none of the current G5 conferences want the A/W to move up, and I would say that interest is lukewarm at best from the P5. It’s like me saying that I want to date Mariah Carey, but if she doesn't want to date me, why should I want to pursue that anyway???

This isn't dating. It's competing. The whole problem with the current system is that schools are often in position to gatekeep who they do and do not have to compete with. If you want to date someone then, presumably, you care about them on some level. You wouldn't want to negatively affect that person.

I could not care less if we negatively affect G5 schools by doing what we're attempting to do. Frankly...I kind of hope we negatively affect them to some degree. I'm tired of other schools being able to maintain some perceived leg up on us by just refusing to compete on even terms.

Either let us into the current system, or we'll try our best to blow that system up. It may or may not work. This post is not an attempt to comment on that aspect of things. But bowing out just because other schools don't want us there? Give me a break.

I really like the WACSUN group and our opportunity to grow together whether we're doing it at the FCS or FBS level. *If* we manage to get the group to really stick together, then I think some good things will happen one way or another. We'll see.

I hear ya, but if you guys want that CFP $$$, then you will need approval from either the G5 (very unlikely) or the P5 (not very likely either, IMO). The whole point of WACSUN going FBS is to get that CFP $$'s, correct? What's the point in going FBS if you're only getting FCS sized shares?? Wouldn't it be better just to stay in FCS??

I think that is the big question for fans of ASUN/WAC schools, without the CFP money would you still want FBS?

Are there any signs of a TV contract?

Will you rely on P5 bodybag games?

Or do the schools believe that just being FBS increases their profile and also allows them to be more attractive for the next round of realignment?
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andybible1995 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
Here's another conference I've come up with. This one will cover a little more area as it will consist of teams in Delaware, Maryland and Virginia. I call this one the Beltway Conference.

The teams in this conference are:

Delaware
Georgetown
Richmond
Towson
VMI
William and Mary

In this conference, Georgetown is a football only member as they are still a member of the Big East for basketball.

Also, something that I forgot to mention in this conference that I didn't in the last one, the HBCU schools are separated from the rest of the schools. Meaning, they are in a conference consisting only of other HBCU members.

The non-football members for this conference would be:

American University
George Mason
George Washington
Longwood
Loyola (MD)
Moun Saint Mary's
Radford
UMBC
VCU
Yesterday 09:33 AM
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eku05 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
Quote:I hear ya, but if you guys want that CFP $$$, then you will need approval from either the G5 (very unlikely) or the P5 (not very likely either, IMO). The whole point of WACSUN going FBS is to get that CFP $$'s, correct? What's the point in going FBS if you're only getting FCS sized shares?? Wouldn't it be better just to stay in FCS??

I wouldn't call it the whole point so much as a (probably) necessary component. Anyone who thinks an FBS move is primarily about the athletic department's bottom line really doesn't understand much about this. It's about visibility for the university and who you have the potential to compete with. You see institutional benefits that don't show up in an athletics department spreadsheet.

Now...can you do any of that effectively without CFP money? Maybe not. It would certainly be a lot harder. But again, I would call the CFP money a means to an end more than the end itself. There's a cost to just sitting where we are right now competing against up-and-comers instead of our formers peers as well. For a lot of these WACSUN schools everyone wants to talk about the cost of moving. No one ever mentions the cost of not-moving which is substantial in its own variant way.

Also, I wouldn't bet against the P5 schools being totally cool with this. The amount of money it would cost them is like the change they lose in their metaphorical couches. The G5s would hate it, but the P5 schools would just have more G5s, and probably weakened ones at that, to beat up on and get bowl eligibility without having to dip into the FCS pool which you can only do once a season. It would probably drive down the price of FBS-buyout games as well, supply-and-demand working as it does.

And we all know the G5s aren't driving the bus. They concede to nearly every demand just to get the chance to stay along for the ride.
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andybible1995 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
If I realigned the FCS conferences using the teams for next season, here's what they would look like:

Big Sky

Cal Poly
Eastern Washington
Idaho
Idaho State
Montana
Montana State
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Portland State
Sacramento State
San Diego
Southern Utah
UC Davis
Utah Tech
Weber State

Big South

Campbell
Charleston Southern
Gardner Webb
Mercer
Presbyterian
Stetson

CAA

Delaware
Duquesne
Fordham
Georgetown
Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Richmond
Towson
Villanova
William & Mary

Ivy League

Brown
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Penn
Princeton
Yale

MEAC

Bethune-Cookman
Delaware State
Florida A&M
Hampton
Howard
Morgan State
North Carolina A&T
North Carolina Central
Norfolk State
South Carolina State

MVFC

Butler
Dayton
Eastern Illinois
Illinois State
Indiana State
Lindenwood
Missouri State
Southeast Missouri State
Southern Illinois
Valparaiso
Western Illinois
Youngstown State

NEC

Albany
Bryant
Central Connecticut
LIU
Merrimack
Monmouth
Robert Morris
Sacred Heart
Saint Francis (PA)
Stone Hill
Stony Brook
Wagner

OVC

Austin Peay
Eastern Kentucky
Morehead State
Murray State
North Alabama
Samford
Tennessee Tech
UT Martin

Patriot League

Bucknell
Colgate
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Marist

SoCon

Chattanooga
The Citadel
Davidson
East Tennessee State
Elon
Furman
VMI
Western Carolina
Wofford

Southland

Abilene Christian
Central Arkansas
Houston Christian
Incarnate Word
Lamar
McNeese
Nicholls
Northwestern State
Stephen F. Austin
Southeastern Louisiana
Tarleton State
Texas A&M Commerce

Summit League

Drake
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
St. Thomas (MN)
South Dakota
South Dakota State

SWAC

Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Alcorn State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Grambling State
Jackson State
Mississippi Valley State
Prairie View A&M
Southern
Tennessee State
Texas Southern

FCS Independents

Kennesaw State

Also with this lineup, the Ivy League, MEAC, and SWAC participate in the FCS playoffs.

I know some of these lineups are old, but I prefer throwback lineups to the current ones.
(This post was last modified: Today 09:14 AM by andybible1995.)
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jcohen42 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
This is really all an argument for not tying football conferences to all-sports conferences. It would make so many things easier.
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
The most ideal FCS realignment involves the MAC moving down to that division. Many of the schools can no longer sustain the AD fiscal issues and they are completely non-competitive at the FBS in any sport at this point.
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inutech Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Ideal FCS realignment
(Today 02:44 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  The most ideal FCS realignment involves the MAC moving down to that division. Many of the schools can no longer sustain the AD fiscal issues and they are completely non-competitive at the FBS in any sport at this point.

They're fine. If they want to play at the FBS level, and they can meet the current requirements - then they're at the right level.
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