Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
Author Message
AllTideUp Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,754
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 348
I Root For: Alabama
Location:
Post: #41
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.
01-22-2023 09:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
HawaiiMongoose Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,067
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 260
I Root For: Hawaii
Location: Honolulu
Post: #42
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
Wilner's update yesterday, republished on Tuscon.com (not behind a paywall):

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat...48671.html

It's basically just a summary of everything we know to date. The one new tidbit is that if there's money to be paid back, Wilner asserts USC and UCLA will have to pay their share.

P.S. It wasn't behind a paywall the first time I accessed it, but when I want back a second time the paywall appeared. So it may or may not be instantly viewable for everyone.
(This post was last modified: 01-23-2023 01:34 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
01-23-2023 01:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jrj84105 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,904
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 127
I Root For: Utes
Location:
Post: #43
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

The PAC hasn’t become a raging dumpster fire. It was a raging dumpster fire.

I guess that was one surprise when joining the conference. The member institutions we knew were fantastic, but I don’t think we were prepared to find out how insanely dysfunctional the conference was and is.

I know UW is still holding out for a B1G invite and wants to keep its options open, but I would jump at the chance to join the ACC until 2035 and kill off this garbage conference.
01-23-2023 02:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jrj84105 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,904
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 127
I Root For: Utes
Location:
Post: #44
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-22-2023 09:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.

What’s left of the PAC is mostly the schools that DO have good penetration in their markets. They just don’t have big markets.
01-23-2023 02:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jrj84105 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,904
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 127
I Root For: Utes
Location:
Post: #45
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-22-2023 03:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

03-lmfao I'm such a doofas at times, I wrote that on my phone at the barber shop. Thank you for the correction 04-cheers

The BigXII's strength has come from the ineptitude of the PAC and ACC to strengthen their positions. The ACC much like the PAC is living in the past. Neither conference seems to understand how to become viable long-term. The PAC has looked down on the academics of the schools in the BigXII for many years, this mentality will be the conferences downfall. Adapt or die.

The decision makers of the PAC and ACC suffered from the same complacency.

I still argue that the failure of forming the PAC16 wasn’t what did the PAC in. It was the failure to launch a joint network with the ACC. That has always been the money move for these conferences.
01-23-2023 02:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Captain Bearcat Offline
All-American in Everything
*

Posts: 8,984
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 676
I Root For: UC
Location: IL & Cincinnati, USA
Post: #46
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-23-2023 02:28 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 09:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.

What’s left of the PAC is mostly the schools that DO have good penetration in their markets. They just don’t have big markets.

Other than Utah and Oregon (and maybe WSU and Arizona), I fail to see which PAC school has better penetration in its market than, say, USF or Houston.

(and Houston is a market of 7.1 million; about as big as the state of Washington and growing at 25% per decade)
01-23-2023 11:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SoCalBobcat78 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,343
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 217
I Root For: TXST, UCLA, CBU
Location:
Post: #47
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-23-2023 11:49 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 02:28 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 09:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.

What’s left of the PAC is mostly the schools that DO have good penetration in their markets. They just don’t have big markets.

Other than Utah and Oregon (and maybe WSU and Arizona), I fail to see which PAC school has better penetration in its market than, say, USF or Houston.

(and Houston is a market of 7.1 million; about as big as the state of Washington and growing at 25% per decade)

Houston does not have penetration in their own market. Texas A&M, Texas, Oklahoma, other SEC schools, Pac-12 schools. They are more productive when it comes to recruiting in the Houston area market for football than the Cougars.

Seattle loves their Seahawks and Huskies. In 2019, the last year before Covid, the Huskies averaged 68,238 fans per game and the Seahawks 68,990 fans per game. That same year, the Houston Cougars averaged 25,518 fans and the Houston Texans averaged 71,793 fans per game. When it comes to TV, the Huskies will be No. 1 in their market and the whole region, including Alaska. The Houston Cougars are at best No. 3 in their market.
01-24-2023 02:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ArmoredUpKnight Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,663
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 336
I Root For: UCF Knights
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Post: #48
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media




- $50M is the claimed amount, might change
- "Just the tip of the iceberg"
- Thompson believes its Dish Network due to the recent legal issues
- Dish might have found the overpayment inadvertently
- Thompson doesn't believe this impacts the Media Deal negotiation
- Safe to assume Larry Scott knew
- PAC Network President Mark Shuken was hired in 2017 and was only around for a couple months before the 2017 audit was completed. He should have been the most vocal at the time, shouldn't have sat on it.
- Too unusual to be negligence
- Larry Scott might be protected by separation agreement
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2023 02:58 AM by ArmoredUpKnight.)
01-24-2023 02:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Alanda Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,435
Joined: May 2019
Reputation: 277
I Root For: Memphis
Location:
Post: #49
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
More from Wilner.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/01/23/p...-timeline/

Continues to say it might be Comcast.
01-24-2023 03:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Chicklets Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 5
Joined: Sep 2022
Reputation: 0
I Root For: Houston
Location:
Post: #50
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-24-2023 02:57 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  



- Safe to assume Larry Scott knew
- PAC Network President Mark Shuken was hired in 2017 and was only around for a couple months before the 2017 audit was completed. He should have been the most vocal at the time, shouldn't have sat on it.
- Too unusual to be negligence
- Larry Scott might be protected by separation agreement

The audit came out in April 2017, the same month as Shuken's predecessor Lydia Murphy-Stephans resigned. Shuken was hired in September and became aware of the audit in December.

This has Larry Scott all over it.
01-24-2023 03:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,075
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 499
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #51
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-22-2023 03:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

03-lmfao I'm such a doofas at times, I wrote that on my phone at the barber shop. Thank you for the correction 04-cheers

The BigXII's strength has come from the ineptitude of the PAC and ACC to strengthen their positions. The ACC much like the PAC is living in the past. Neither conference seems to understand how to become viable long-term. The PAC has looked down on the academics of the schools in the BigXII for many years, this mentality will be the conferences downfall. Adapt or die.

The difference, or course, is that the ACC is owned by ESPN and can only make moves that ESPN agrees to pay for. Living in the past .....perhaps, but a past that will provide a steady paycheck for years to come.
The PAC on the other hand decided to back themselves financially and through a series of bad hires and questionable decisions finds themselves up the creek with no paddle and no one willing to rescue them.
01-24-2023 06:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gitanole Offline
Bartender
*

Posts: 1,516
Joined: May 2016
Reputation: 315
I Root For: Florida State
Location: Speared Turf
Post: #52
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
Shared in another thread but worth adding here: Jon Wilner, in what is likely the most detailed published report so far, says no plausible reason exists to suspect malice on the part of specific individuals. The overpayment, by Comcast to the PAC, is a case of 'mismanagement' stemming from conference officials lacking access to Comcast's subscriber data. The financial officers weren't sure of the protocols that exist for adjusting to that blind spot.

The remedy looks pretty straightforward: 'Sources believe the [media] company will simply withhold payments totaling $50 million (approximately) over the remaining two years of the carriage contract—about $2 million per school per year.'

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-h...h-comcast/
01-25-2023 11:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sactowndog Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,461
Joined: Dec 2010
Reputation: 52
I Root For: Fresno State
Location:
Post: #53
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-22-2023 09:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.

No it’s their fault. When you only accept 16% of applicants in the state that makes up over half your population it’s your own fault. Stanford and Cal are the elite of the elite. Make them play a Fresno and SDSU every year and you have a contest you can market. But that will not happen.
01-26-2023 12:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sactowndog Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,461
Joined: Dec 2010
Reputation: 52
I Root For: Fresno State
Location:
Post: #54
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-23-2023 02:28 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 09:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.

What’s left of the PAC is mostly the schools that DO have good penetration in their markets. They just don’t have big markets.

True of Utah, Oregon and Washington…. But what is your opinion of Cal and Stanford?
01-26-2023 12:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SouthEastAlaska Online
1st String
*

Posts: 1,674
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 158
I Root For: UW
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-24-2023 06:07 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

03-lmfao I'm such a doofas at times, I wrote that on my phone at the barber shop. Thank you for the correction 04-cheers

The BigXII's strength has come from the ineptitude of the PAC and ACC to strengthen their positions. The ACC much like the PAC is living in the past. Neither conference seems to understand how to become viable long-term. The PAC has looked down on the academics of the schools in the BigXII for many years, this mentality will be the conferences downfall. Adapt or die.

The difference, or course, is that the ACC is owned by ESPN and can only make moves that ESPN agrees to pay for. Living in the past .....perhaps, but a past that will provide a steady paycheck for years to come.
The PAC on the other hand decided to back themselves financially and through a series of bad hires and questionable decisions finds themselves up the creek with no paddle and no one willing to rescue them.

Oh I absolutely agree with you Lance, the PAC has screwed themselves over in numerous ways over the past 15 years. I could make the argument that in the 2000s when USC was winning under coach Carroll, the PAC was the 3rd most powerful and influential conference in college athletics. Then they hired Larry "the cable guy" Scott and he took a swing at becoming number 2. Swung for the fences ala "Willie May's Hays" and legged out a single with the additions of Colorado and Utah. Ever since its been a one strike out after another. The PAC is now clearly number 5 and when you include basketball number 6. It's absolutely embarrassing considering the advantages we had at the beginning of this century.

Every conference and commissioner has ran the business of college athletics differently over the last 20 years but the PAC has clearly done it the worst. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2023 12:43 AM by SouthEastAlaska.)
01-26-2023 12:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sactowndog Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,461
Joined: Dec 2010
Reputation: 52
I Root For: Fresno State
Location:
Post: #56
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-26-2023 12:42 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-24-2023 06:07 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

03-lmfao I'm such a doofas at times, I wrote that on my phone at the barber shop. Thank you for the correction 04-cheers

The BigXII's strength has come from the ineptitude of the PAC and ACC to strengthen their positions. The ACC much like the PAC is living in the past. Neither conference seems to understand how to become viable long-term. The PAC has looked down on the academics of the schools in the BigXII for many years, this mentality will be the conferences downfall. Adapt or die.

The difference, or course, is that the ACC is owned by ESPN and can only make moves that ESPN agrees to pay for. Living in the past .....perhaps, but a past that will provide a steady paycheck for years to come.
The PAC on the other hand decided to back themselves financially and through a series of bad hires and questionable decisions finds themselves up the creek with no paddle and no one willing to rescue them.

Oh I absolutely agree with you Lance, the PAC has screwed themselves over in numerous ways over the past 15 years. I could make the argument that in the 2000s when USC was winning under coach Carroll, the PAC was the 3rd most powerful and influential conference in college athletics. Then they hired Larry "the cable guy" Scott and he took a swing at becoming number 2. Swung for the fences ala "Willie May's Hays" and legged out a single with the additions of Colorado and Utah. Ever since its been a one strike out after another. The PAC is now clearly number 5 and when you include basketball number 6. It's absolutely embarrassing considering the advantages we had at the beginning of this century.

Every conference and commissioner has ran the business of college athletics differently over the last 20 years but the PAC has clearly done it the worst. 04-cheers

The PAC’s problem is in California.

Ohio State acceptance rate: 57.2%
Penn State acceptance rate: 51.0%
Illinois acceptance rate: 59.7%

Cal acceptance rate: 14.4%

That **** isn’t going to work if you want a broadly watched athletic conference….. when you tell 8.5 out of 10 applicants they aren’t good enough to attend your school it doesn’t make you a TV must watch.

Oh btw… I did get into Cal in the 80’s. Of course their acceptance rate then was around 50%
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2023 01:18 AM by Sactowndog.)
01-26-2023 01:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Poster Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,126
Joined: Sep 2018
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Auburn
Location:
Post: #57
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-23-2023 11:49 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 02:28 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 09:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.

What’s left of the PAC is mostly the schools that DO have good penetration in their markets. They just don’t have big markets.

Other than Utah and Oregon (and maybe WSU and Arizona), I fail to see which PAC school has better penetration in its market than, say, USF or Houston.

(and Houston is a market of 7.1 million; about as big as the state of Washington and growing at 25% per decade)

Houston has never drawn well in the Houston market, and contrary to what some people claim they didn't even draw well in Houston in the SWC days. Check out this article about how poor attendance in the SWC was, and this was actually written before SMU's death penalty.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-x...story.html
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2023 01:57 AM by Poster.)
01-26-2023 01:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Poster Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,126
Joined: Sep 2018
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Auburn
Location:
Post: #58
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-26-2023 12:42 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-24-2023 06:07 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 01:46 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The PAC has become a raging dumpster fire. Kliavkoff knew he was taking over a leaking boat but I don't think he realized the extent of the damage. I don't believe anyone here or anywhere else understood how bad it was either.

The failure to expand in 2010, resistance on multiple occasions to partner with ESPN on the Pac-12 Network, inability to strike and absorb the remainder of the BigXII when OUT declared they were leaving, the defections of USCLA, and now this. The PAC is for all intensive purposes a dead conference walking. It pains me greatly to see what has happened but it's over.

That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

03-lmfao I'm such a doofas at times, I wrote that on my phone at the barber shop. Thank you for the correction 04-cheers

The BigXII's strength has come from the ineptitude of the PAC and ACC to strengthen their positions. The ACC much like the PAC is living in the past. Neither conference seems to understand how to become viable long-term. The PAC has looked down on the academics of the schools in the BigXII for many years, this mentality will be the conferences downfall. Adapt or die.

The difference, or course, is that the ACC is owned by ESPN and can only make moves that ESPN agrees to pay for. Living in the past .....perhaps, but a past that will provide a steady paycheck for years to come.
The PAC on the other hand decided to back themselves financially and through a series of bad hires and questionable decisions finds themselves up the creek with no paddle and no one willing to rescue them.

Oh I absolutely agree with you Lance, the PAC has screwed themselves over in numerous ways over the past 15 years. I could make the argument that in the 2000s when USC was winning under coach Carroll, the PAC was the 3rd most powerful and influential conference in college athletics. Then they hired Larry "the cable guy" Scott and he took a swing at becoming number 2. Swung for the fences ala "Willie May's Hays" and legged out a single with the additions of Colorado and Utah. Ever since its been a one strike out after another. The PAC is now clearly number 5 and when you include basketball number 6. It's absolutely embarrassing considering the advantages we had at the beginning of this century.

Every conference and commissioner has ran the business of college athletics differently over the last 20 years but the PAC has clearly done it the worst. 04-cheers



The PAC has actually been at the bottom of conference revenue rankings for almost this entire century. The only exception was early in Larry Scott's tenure (roughly 2011-13) when the PAC was benefitting from having signed the most recent TV contract.

Of course, getting Texas and Oklahoma into the PAC would have done wonders for the conference's revenues.
01-26-2023 07:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,075
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 499
I Root For: Carolina
Location: Greensboro, NC
Post: #59
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-26-2023 01:14 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(01-26-2023 12:42 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-24-2023 06:07 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

03-lmfao I'm such a doofas at times, I wrote that on my phone at the barber shop. Thank you for the correction 04-cheers

The BigXII's strength has come from the ineptitude of the PAC and ACC to strengthen their positions. The ACC much like the PAC is living in the past. Neither conference seems to understand how to become viable long-term. The PAC has looked down on the academics of the schools in the BigXII for many years, this mentality will be the conferences downfall. Adapt or die.

The difference, or course, is that the ACC is owned by ESPN and can only make moves that ESPN agrees to pay for. Living in the past .....perhaps, but a past that will provide a steady paycheck for years to come.
The PAC on the other hand decided to back themselves financially and through a series of bad hires and questionable decisions finds themselves up the creek with no paddle and no one willing to rescue them.

Oh I absolutely agree with you Lance, the PAC has screwed themselves over in numerous ways over the past 15 years. I could make the argument that in the 2000s when USC was winning under coach Carroll, the PAC was the 3rd most powerful and influential conference in college athletics. Then they hired Larry "the cable guy" Scott and he took a swing at becoming number 2. Swung for the fences ala "Willie May's Hays" and legged out a single with the additions of Colorado and Utah. Ever since its been a one strike out after another. The PAC is now clearly number 5 and when you include basketball number 6. It's absolutely embarrassing considering the advantages we had at the beginning of this century.

Every conference and commissioner has ran the business of college athletics differently over the last 20 years but the PAC has clearly done it the worst. 04-cheers

The PAC’s problem is in California.

Ohio State acceptance rate: 57.2%
Penn State acceptance rate: 51.0%
Illinois acceptance rate: 59.7%

Cal acceptance rate: 14.4%

That **** isn’t going to work if you want a broadly watched athletic conference….. when you tell 8.5 out of 10 applicants they aren’t good enough to attend your school it doesn’t make you a TV must watch.

Oh btw… I did get into Cal in the 80’s. Of course their acceptance rate then was around 50%

14.4% is pretty low, is Cal the lowest in the PAC?

A quick sampling of the ACC publics:
Carolina-20.4%
UVa-20.7%
Georgia Tech-16%
Florida State-37.1%
NC State-47.5%
Virginia Tech-56.5%
Clemson-49.2%

Duke has the lowest acceptance rate in the ACC-5.9%

BTW the ACC average is 33.09%

https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/co...tance-rate
01-26-2023 08:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Frank the Tank Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,798
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 1245
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #60
RE: Pac12 fires two senior executives for failing to report overpayments by media
(01-26-2023 01:14 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(01-26-2023 12:42 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-24-2023 06:07 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:47 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

03-lmfao I'm such a doofas at times, I wrote that on my phone at the barber shop. Thank you for the correction 04-cheers

The BigXII's strength has come from the ineptitude of the PAC and ACC to strengthen their positions. The ACC much like the PAC is living in the past. Neither conference seems to understand how to become viable long-term. The PAC has looked down on the academics of the schools in the BigXII for many years, this mentality will be the conferences downfall. Adapt or die.

The difference, or course, is that the ACC is owned by ESPN and can only make moves that ESPN agrees to pay for. Living in the past .....perhaps, but a past that will provide a steady paycheck for years to come.
The PAC on the other hand decided to back themselves financially and through a series of bad hires and questionable decisions finds themselves up the creek with no paddle and no one willing to rescue them.

Oh I absolutely agree with you Lance, the PAC has screwed themselves over in numerous ways over the past 15 years. I could make the argument that in the 2000s when USC was winning under coach Carroll, the PAC was the 3rd most powerful and influential conference in college athletics. Then they hired Larry "the cable guy" Scott and he took a swing at becoming number 2. Swung for the fences ala "Willie May's Hays" and legged out a single with the additions of Colorado and Utah. Ever since its been a one strike out after another. The PAC is now clearly number 5 and when you include basketball number 6. It's absolutely embarrassing considering the advantages we had at the beginning of this century.

Every conference and commissioner has ran the business of college athletics differently over the last 20 years but the PAC has clearly done it the worst. 04-cheers

The PAC’s problem is in California.

Ohio State acceptance rate: 57.2%
Penn State acceptance rate: 51.0%
Illinois acceptance rate: 59.7%

Cal acceptance rate: 14.4%

That **** isn’t going to work if you want a broadly watched athletic conference….. when you tell 8.5 out of 10 applicants they aren’t good enough to attend your school it doesn’t make you a TV must watch.

Oh btw… I did get into Cal in the 80’s. Of course their acceptance rate then was around 50%

Eh - I don’t buy that as being the factor.

Some acceptance rates of blue blood football schools:

USC: 12%
Notre Dame: 15%
Michigan: 20%
Florida: 30%
Texas: 31% (greatly inflated by the state’s top 6% auto-admit rule; acceptance rate is LESS than 10% outside of that group!)

I don’t see fans of those schools being bothered by academic elitism. What they care about is that they’re athletically elite. THAT is Cal’s issue. If they had Michigan or USC’s athletic success, then they’d draw fans. USC and UCLA (acceptance rate of 9%) have even lower acceptance rates than Cal, but no one would (or should) be seriously suggesting that their sports fandom is somehow capped because of that fact. If USC and UCLA football and basketball are playing to their historical norms, then their acceptance rate could be 1% and still draw fans.

Plus, it’s a supply and demand factor for spots at the top UC schools along with the sheer size of California.

Cal received 128,000 applications last year. UCLA received nearly 150,000 applications. By comparison, their public peer schools of Michigan received 80,000 applications, Florida received 60,000 applications and Texas received 57,000 applications. UCLA is the most applied to school in the country while Cal is #5. (The others in the top 5 are also UC schools - UCSD, UCI and UCSB.)

At the same time, those application figures are actually intentionally *deflated* compared to what they could be because the UC System uses its own quirky college application as opposed to the Common App.

As a reference point, Illinois had its own similar school specific application without the ability to use the Common App up until this past year. That 59% acceptance rate reflects the Class of 2025 rate with the old app. In just one year switching to Common App, applications for the Class of 2026 went up by 34% and the overall acceptance rate dropped nearly 15 points to under 45% (and the acceptance rate getting into the applicant’s first choice major went down to 37%). So, the “real” demand for spots at Cal and UCLA compared to its national peers is even larger - they’d be easily receiving over 200,000 applications each if they were on the Common App.

Cal would need to essentially to have an undergrad enrollment of over 150,000 on campus to even be in the ballpark of the current still-low acceptance rate of Florida. That wouldn’t be a good educational experience for anyone. Cal’s problem isn’t somehow having a lack of popularity, but rather it’s *too* popular among high school students that want to go to college.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2023 10:15 AM by Frank the Tank.)
01-26-2023 08:36 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2023 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2023 MyBB Group.