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Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-21-2023 07:56 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oregon, Oklahoma, Utah, Iowa, Mississippi, and Kansas are all smaller and support 2 programs but somehow the Rocky Mountain State can’t.

To be fair, it was said the Big XII did approach Air Force about potential membership with a group of others like Pitt and Arkansas. All of them turned down the Big XII. How legit that rumor was...take it or leave it.

AFA football *could* probably hang in several of the major conferences. But, football only. They aren't playing in any CCG's though. It's the other sports, especially basketball, where they may as well be in the Patriot.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2023 04:44 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
01-21-2023 04:43 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-21-2023 04:43 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-21-2023 07:56 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oregon, Oklahoma, Utah, Iowa, Mississippi, and Kansas are all smaller and support 2 programs but somehow the Rocky Mountain State can’t.

To be fair, it was said the Big XII did approach Air Force about potential membership with a group of others like Pitt and Arkansas. All of them turned down the Big XII. How legit that rumor was...take it or leave it.

AFA football *could* probably hang in several of the major conferences. But, football only. They aren't playing in any CCG's though. It's the other sports, especially basketball, where they may as well be in the Patriot.

To clarify, the story was "potential membership," not an offer. There was never any decision by the Big 12 that they would even vote on Air Force membership if interested, just a feeling out for exploration of the idea. Air Force decided it didn't make sense for them.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2023 05:57 PM by bullet.)
01-21-2023 05:56 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-21-2023 07:56 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Colorado/Colorado St is an enigma. Colorado is the 21st largest state by population

South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oregon, Oklahoma, Utah, Iowa, Mississippi, and Kansas are all smaller and support 2 programs but somehow the Rocky Mountain State can’t.

I think it stems from the fact that Colorado wasn’t required to take care of Colorado St by the state legislature. The Buffalos got to the Big 6 without them all the way back in the 40s so the Rams didn’t have the state’s #1 school advocating for them and bringing them along for the ride.

Colorado St’s program was in such a weak condition, they weren’t even invited to be part of the original WAC in the early 60s.

Being the land grant as opposed to the flagship also hurt because Colorado ended up in the Big 12, where academics were important but not a deal breaker. For a conference like the PAC 10, where academics WERE a deal breaker, they weren’t going to try and carve out a presence with the state’s #2 academic school—they wanted #1.

Had Colorado St’s athletics been stronger, maybe they could have been the no brainer replacement for the Buffalos, but since they weren’t, there was no impetus to try and hang on to a presence in the state.
Colorado wasn't always so populated. They were tied with Kansas in population in 1970. The locals will tell you they got hammered with white flight from California, but I don't know how true that is. I do know bringing in a bunch of people from outside the state doesn't help the local college's fanbase get any bigger, especially when the teams are way down the list of sports options like CSU athletics is.

(01-21-2023 04:43 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-21-2023 07:56 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oregon, Oklahoma, Utah, Iowa, Mississippi, and Kansas are all smaller and support 2 programs but somehow the Rocky Mountain State can’t.

To be fair, it was said the Big XII did approach Air Force about potential membership with a group of others like Pitt and Arkansas. All of them turned down the Big XII. How legit that rumor was...take it or leave it.

AFA football *could* probably hang in several of the major conferences. But, football only. They aren't playing in any CCG's though. It's the other sports, especially basketball, where they may as well be in the Patriot.
I thought the story was the Big 8 went to offer Arkansas in the late 70s or early 80s, and it fell apart, likely due to Nebraska not wanting them. Really shortsighted on the Huskers' part if true. I'd imagine them offering an SEC-affiliated Arkansas would end with a belly laugh and Arkansas hanging up.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2023 02:27 AM by Mav.)
01-22-2023 02:23 AM
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Post: #24
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-20-2023 11:43 AM)World Wide Swag Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 11:35 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 09:00 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 06:30 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed? Although Colorado State wouldn't bring anything that Colorado already hasn't, a San Diego State/Colorado State pairing to the PAC would make more sense than a San Diego State/SMU pairing. In addition, the Washington State legislature recently put forward a resolution that if passed, would force Washington and Washington State have to go to the same conference together. If that happens, whose to say Oregon, Arizona, and potentially Colorado wouldn't do the same?

The bolded statement seems self-contradictory to me. The first part of the sentence is the reason the second part isn't true.

I used the first pairing as a more geographical approach to realignment. A San Diego State/SMU combo doesn't make sense. SMU is a small private Christian school in Dallas Texas. Aside from their media market presence, they don't have much else to offer.
SMU is not a “Christian” school. Despite its Methodist roots, it is now no more of a religious school than USC, Vanderbilt, Rice, or Wake Forest.

A few more adds. SMU actually seems to have a lot in common with Duke & Wake Forest.
01-22-2023 03:25 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-21-2023 05:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  To clarify, the story was "potential membership," not an offer. There was never any decision by the Big 12 that they would even vote on Air Force membership if interested, just a feeling out for exploration of the idea. Air Force decided it didn't make sense for them.

I just found that AFA being in the same company as Arkansas and Pitt as intriguing. Like, it wasn’t Colorado State with whom they wanted to connect. AFA’s entire athletic department may not be P5-worthy, but its football is/was.

Quote:I'd imagine them offering an SEC-affiliated Arkansas would end with a belly laugh and Arkansas hanging up.

That’s what I thought, as well as a Pitt newly situated within the ACC with many familiar faces. I do get why the conference would approach Arkansas; the Nebraska issue was now the Big Ten’s problem, and, who knows…Arkansas was tight with many in that conference, old SWC obviously and Big 8 schools alike. Kind of like a right of first refusal thing. The Big XII won’t know where it stands if it doesn’t ask.
01-22-2023 07:14 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-22-2023 07:14 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  ... Arkansas was tight with many in that conference, old SWC obviously and Big 8 schools alike. Kind of like a right of first refusal thing. The Big XII won’t know where it stands if it doesn’t ask.

Yeah, a feeler after the Arkansas to the SEC move probably would have gone like,

Big8 person w/relationship: "So, ... you good in the SEC?"

Arkansas person: "Yea, we're good. {realizing what is being asked} {chuckles} ... yeah, really, we're good."
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2023 09:46 AM by BruceMcF.)
01-22-2023 09:45 AM
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Gamenole Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
Not unless the PAC lost Colorado to another conference. Unless that happens, CO State's best chance is to hope for a Big XII invitation someday.
01-22-2023 10:12 AM
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Big Frog II Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
Colorado State has a lot of positives. Sadly athletics is not one of them. They do not seem to have the support of the school or alums to make the jump currently.
01-22-2023 10:38 AM
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RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
What if Tom Jurich had stayed at Colorado State instead of going to Louisville?

Would they be in the Pac-12 with Colorado instead of Utah or would they be in the Big XII as Colorado’s replacement?
01-22-2023 01:48 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-20-2023 02:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 09:04 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Colorado State is kind of like USF ..... lots of potential, unrealized potential.

So "no".

Colorado St. "looks like" a P5 program, but they have one of the historically worst football programs in FBS, not far above NMSU and UTEP. And so nobody outside CSU fans watches them. Plus, Colorado the state doesn't pay much attention to football. Despite CU's success, the Big 12 was told they were a drag on the Big 12's value when they left. Coloradans do things other than watch football on Saturdays.

Coloradans do pay attention to football but not to the college kind. The Denver Broncos rule most of the Mountain West (the region not the conference). The same applies to other Western cities. Look at the Seahawks, 49ers, Raiders and Cardinals. The Lakers and Dodgers rule L.A. but still the Rams and Chargers get good fan support.

You’re absolutely right, Coloradans and people in the West do enjoy the outdoors and have better things to do on a Saturday morning and afternoon than watch college football. As a native Californian, I’ve been saying exactly the same thing for years on this board on the reason why the Pac-12 doesn’t have the rabid fan bases that the SEC, Big Ten and most of the Big XII have. That and they don’t have the number of t-shirt fans other conferences have. Most fans have a real connection to the school….. not through Walmart or Target.
01-22-2023 01:59 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-21-2023 07:56 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Colorado/Colorado St is an enigma. Colorado is the 21st largest state by population

South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oregon, Oklahoma, Utah, Iowa, Mississippi, and Kansas are all smaller and support 2 programs but somehow the Rocky Mountain State can’t.

I think it stems from the fact that Colorado wasn’t required to take care of Colorado St by the state legislature. The Buffalos got to the Big 6 without them all the way back in the 40s so the Rams didn’t have the state’s #1 school advocating for them and bringing them along for the ride.

Colorado St’s program was in such a weak condition, they weren’t even invited to be part of the original WAC in the early 60s.

Being the land grant as opposed to the flagship also hurt because Colorado ended up in the Big 12, where academics were important but not a deal breaker. For a conference like the PAC 10, where academics WERE a deal breaker, they weren’t going to try and carve out a presence with the state’s #2 academic school—they wanted #1.

Had Colorado St’s athletics been stronger, maybe they could have been the no brainer replacement for the Buffalos, but since they weren’t, there was no impetus to try and hang on to a presence in the state.

Oklahoma, Utah, Iowa, Mississippi, and Kansas are all smaller than the San Joaquin Valley which has zero P5 teams and zero pro teams.

If you think about the success of the PAC-12 and Big-12 it has been the result of passionate fan bases in areas that largely don’t compete with the NFL. Fresno fits that model more than any other.
01-22-2023 05:29 PM
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No Bull Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-20-2023 06:30 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed? Although Colorado State wouldn't bring anything that Colorado already hasn't, a San Diego State/Colorado State pairing to the PAC would make more sense than a San Diego State/SMU pairing. In addition, the Washington State legislature recently put forward a resolution that if passed, would force Washington and Washington State have to go to the same conference together. If that happens, whose to say Oregon, Arizona, and potentially Colorado wouldn't do the same?

I lived in between Boulder Colorado and Ft Collins for about 6 years. I feel like I can speak to this. I will make some quick points.

1. Colorado is a pro football state. Every sport as well as college athletics take a back seat to the Denver Broncos. There is no close second. Every other sports team lags behind the Broncos.

2. The University of Colorado is the state flagship. Colorado State is not respected in Colorado. CU is the left leaning flagship in an increasingly liberal state. It is the school of the front range. CSU is right leaning and the school of the rural plains.

3. Outside of Ft Collins you won’t see a lot of CSU gear for sale. U won’t see people wearing much CSU garb.

In short CSU is light years from being PAC 12 material and I am not even bringing up attendance or the Rams football history.

Ft Collins is a great town and CSU is a fine University but they simply are not PAC 12 material.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2023 08:37 PM by No Bull.)
01-22-2023 08:16 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-22-2023 08:16 PM)No Bull Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 06:30 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed? Although Colorado State wouldn't bring anything that Colorado already hasn't, a San Diego State/Colorado State pairing to the PAC would make more sense than a San Diego State/SMU pairing. In addition, the Washington State legislature recently put forward a resolution that if passed, would force Washington and Washington State have to go to the same conference together. If that happens, whose to say Oregon, Arizona, and potentially Colorado wouldn't do the same?

I lived in between Boulder Colorado and Ft Collins for about 6 years. I feel like I can speak to this. I will make some quick points.

1. Colorado is a pro football state. Every sport as well as college athletics take a back seat to the Denver Broncos. There is no close second. Every other sports team lags behind the Broncos.

2. The University of Colorado is the state flagship. Colorado State is not respected in Colorado. CU is the left leaning flagship in an increasingly liberal state. It is the school of the front range. CSU is right leaning and the school of the rural plains.

3. Outside of Ft Collins you won’t see a lot of CSU gear for sale. U won’t see people wearing much CSU garb.

In short CSU is light years from being PAC 12 material and I am not even bringing up attendance or the Rams football history.

Ft Collins is a great town and CSU is a fine University but they simply are not PAC 12 material.

I have been here three decades now, this is pretty much spot on, including the Broncos comment, they dominate, only the Avalanche if winning can grab some attention away from Bronco talk.

I would argue Wyoming gets more attention than CSU since a lot of Wyoming alumni end up in the Denver metro. CSU is not PAC12 or Big 12 material. They just aren't.
01-23-2023 04:32 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
I do believe Colorado State is in a relatively small cluster of “high potential” schools that could be upwardly mobile into a major athletic conference, but isn’t for any number of reasons. To me, they are probably sitting in the same boat as Stony Brook, only CSU got their stadium built through “backdoor” means. Both of them made a go of things with a big athletics giving campaign. Success would have outwardly shown both schools had money behind them to push athletics to that next desired level. But the money never showed up. Not as much as what was wanted/needed, for sure. Those “cultures” aren’t there.

The community saw it. I think the respective results speak for themselves. Colorado State is still in the MWC, but it got its stadium. Stony didn’t get its stadium, but it got some kind of win getting the full CAA membership. Neither met expectations, but they got something.
01-24-2023 12:46 PM
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Sicembear11 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-22-2023 07:14 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-21-2023 05:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  To clarify, the story was "potential membership," not an offer. There was never any decision by the Big 12 that they would even vote on Air Force membership if interested, just a feeling out for exploration of the idea. Air Force decided it didn't make sense for them.

I just found that AFA being in the same company as Arkansas and Pitt as intriguing. Like, it wasn’t Colorado State with whom they wanted to connect. AFA’s entire athletic department may not be P5-worthy, but its football is/was.

Quote:I'd imagine them offering an SEC-affiliated Arkansas would end with a belly laugh and Arkansas hanging up.

That’s what I thought, as well as a Pitt newly situated within the ACC with many familiar faces. I do get why the conference would approach Arkansas; the Nebraska issue was now the Big Ten’s problem, and, who knows…Arkansas was tight with many in that conference, old SWC obviously and Big 8 schools alike. Kind of like a right of first refusal thing. The Big XII won’t know where it stands if it doesn’t ask.

The Big 12 has explored that on and off for over a decade. Arkansas is not interested in giving up their SEC affiliation and take on a risk of joining the Big 12 with Texas and OU.

I think if those two schools committed long term, there may have been an outside shot of Arkansas returning, but that ship is long since sailed.
01-24-2023 01:06 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
Responding to the OP question: Colorado State is certainly a candidate for PAC attention. The institution has a lot of upside, but they're better suited to a second wave of PAC expansion than a first.

A first expansion wave would establish identity and intent. Maybe the call will be for a deep pass to establish the far edge of a new footprint (Texas tech, Kansas State, Kansas, OK State) or a more conservative run up the middle that reinforces the league's Pacific identity (San Diego, Fresno, Boise). Either way, doubling up in Colorado or Utah wouldn't be likely in the first play from scrimmage. It could make perfect sense in the next wave, though.

Colorado State seems to be paying a dear price for its build-a-stadium-now-build-a-winning-staff-later strategy. If so, it has company in USF, another program having cart-first-horse-later headaches.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2023 09:11 PM by Gitanole.)
01-24-2023 01:47 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-23-2023 04:32 PM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 08:16 PM)No Bull Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 06:30 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed? Although Colorado State wouldn't bring anything that Colorado already hasn't, a San Diego State/Colorado State pairing to the PAC would make more sense than a San Diego State/SMU pairing. In addition, the Washington State legislature recently put forward a resolution that if passed, would force Washington and Washington State have to go to the same conference together. If that happens, whose to say Oregon, Arizona, and potentially Colorado wouldn't do the same?

I lived in between Boulder Colorado and Ft Collins for about 6 years. I feel like I can speak to this. I will make some quick points.

1. Colorado is a pro football state. Every sport as well as college athletics take a back seat to the Denver Broncos. There is no close second. Every other sports team lags behind the Broncos.

2. The University of Colorado is the state flagship. Colorado State is not respected in Colorado. CU is the left leaning flagship in an increasingly liberal state. It is the school of the front range. CSU is right leaning and the school of the rural plains.

3. Outside of Ft Collins you won’t see a lot of CSU gear for sale. U won’t see people wearing much CSU garb.

In short CSU is light years from being PAC 12 material and I am not even bringing up attendance or the Rams football history.

Ft Collins is a great town and CSU is a fine University but they simply are not PAC 12 material.

I have been here three decades now, this is pretty much spot on, including the Broncos comment, they dominate, only the Avalanche if winning can grab some attention away from Bronco talk.

I would argue Wyoming gets more attention than CSU since a lot of Wyoming alumni end up in the Denver metro. CSU is not PAC12 or Big 12 material. They just aren't.

They are loved on this board because a lot of the posters are infatuated with the fact they are named Colorado State. If they were the University of Northern Colorado the same people would be posting they are a directional school with no fan base and they need to get bent.
01-24-2023 01:51 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-22-2023 01:59 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 02:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 09:04 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Colorado State is kind of like USF ..... lots of potential, unrealized potential.

So "no".

Colorado St. "looks like" a P5 program, but they have one of the historically worst football programs in FBS, not far above NMSU and UTEP. And so nobody outside CSU fans watches them. Plus, Colorado the state doesn't pay much attention to football. Despite CU's success, the Big 12 was told they were a drag on the Big 12's value when they left. Coloradans do things other than watch football on Saturdays.

Coloradans do pay attention to football but not to the college kind. The Denver Broncos rule most of the Mountain West (the region not the conference). The same applies to other Western cities. Look at the Seahawks, 49ers, Raiders and Cardinals. The Lakers and Dodgers rule L.A. but still the Rams and Chargers get good fan support.

You’re absolutely right, Coloradans and people in the West do enjoy the outdoors and have better things to do on a Saturday morning and afternoon than watch college football. As a native Californian, I’ve been saying exactly the same thing for years on this board on the reason why the Pac-12 doesn’t have the rabid fan bases that the SEC, Big Ten and most of the Big XII have. That and they don’t have the number of t-shirt fans other conferences have. Most fans have a real connection to the school….. not through Walmart or Target.

I think the “other things to do” misses the mark a little. Lots of places have “other things to do”. Where college football thrives is where there are fewer people out doing those “other things”, so lots of people watch CFB because that’s sort of the default.

What changes the dynamic I think is migration (referring to domestic migration here). When you have a lot of transplants, those transplants are out doing those “other things” while the local game is on. There no longer is a CFB default, and people who just want to tag along have friends providing different options. It’s also much easier for transplants to adopt a pro team because the only fandom requirement is to be from that area. There is no NFL fandom gatekeeping like what we see in CFB (real fan with personal or often familial ties vs a lowly “T shirt fan”).

If you plot percent of people who migrated to a region versus attendance for every CFB region, you’d see an inverse correlation that is something close to linear.

The Western US and especially CA and AZ but also CO are very transplant heavy. Outside of major urban areas, the US South has very few transplants. Same for the Midwest. And those stable/low migration suburban/rural areas are sort of the cradle of CFB fandom.
01-24-2023 02:07 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
(01-24-2023 01:51 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 04:32 PM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  
(01-22-2023 08:16 PM)No Bull Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 06:30 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed? Although Colorado State wouldn't bring anything that Colorado already hasn't, a San Diego State/Colorado State pairing to the PAC would make more sense than a San Diego State/SMU pairing. In addition, the Washington State legislature recently put forward a resolution that if passed, would force Washington and Washington State have to go to the same conference together. If that happens, whose to say Oregon, Arizona, and potentially Colorado wouldn't do the same?

I lived in between Boulder Colorado and Ft Collins for about 6 years. I feel like I can speak to this. I will make some quick points.

1. Colorado is a pro football state. Every sport as well as college athletics take a back seat to the Denver Broncos. There is no close second. Every other sports team lags behind the Broncos.

2. The University of Colorado is the state flagship. Colorado State is not respected in Colorado. CU is the left leaning flagship in an increasingly liberal state. It is the school of the front range. CSU is right leaning and the school of the rural plains.

3. Outside of Ft Collins you won’t see a lot of CSU gear for sale. U won’t see people wearing much CSU garb.

In short CSU is light years from being PAC 12 material and I am not even bringing up attendance or the Rams football history.

Ft Collins is a great town and CSU is a fine University but they simply are not PAC 12 material.

I have been here three decades now, this is pretty much spot on, including the Broncos comment, they dominate, only the Avalanche if winning can grab some attention away from Bronco talk.

I would argue Wyoming gets more attention than CSU since a lot of Wyoming alumni end up in the Denver metro. CSU is not PAC12 or Big 12 material. They just aren't.

They are loved on this board because a lot of the posters are infatuated with the fact they are named Colorado State. If they were the University of Northern Colorado the same people would be posting they are a directional school with no fan base and they need to get bent.
This is true, but the land grant status and being agriculturally focused puts them on par with several legacy B12 schools (OSU, KSU, OSU, TTU, to name a few).

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01-24-2023 02:20 PM
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jrj84105 Offline
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RE: Is Colorado State a viable option for the PAC? If so, why haven't they been discussed
Also, I feel bad for Utah State. They never get a mention despite outperforming CSU on the field. From a research perspective, they’re behind CSU but by NSF metrics are still ahead of Oregon State, Oregon, Hawaii, and SDSU not to mention TTU, KSU, OKSU, Baylor, TCU, and Houston as well as other P5 publics like TN, Neb, LSU, Ark, Bama, SCar, etc. They’ll probably pass ISU and WSU up in the next 5 years as well.

If the PAC12 had formed in different order, CSU and USU would have just as much a place at the table as OrSU and WSU.
01-24-2023 02:24 PM
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