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It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
I think it’s time for the SEC and Big 10 to partner and plot their breakaway from the NCAA. Working together, as opposed to against each other, they can maximize the value of their revenue sports and cut the NCAA’s grubby fingers from the pot. As partners, they can work together to strategically add other members to the consortium rather than battle for commonly sought prizes. Together they have the greatest leverage of the networks.
01-18-2023 04:39 PM
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bryanw1995 Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-18-2023 04:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it’s time for the SEC and Big 10 to partner and plot their breakaway from the NCAA. Working together, as opposed to against each other, they can maximize the value of their revenue sports and cut the NCAA’s grubby fingers from the pot. As partners, they can work together to strategically add other members to the consortium rather than battle for commonly sought prizes. Together they have the greatest leverage of the networks.

This sounds good in theory, and I too would like for that to happen, but the B1G and SEC would have a whole lot of issues to hash out. And that's assuming that there's desire among either of the Conference offices or any of the 32 schools.

1. Role of Academics in potential future invitees?
2. NIL Rules?
3. Pay for Play?
4. Players Unions?

All the issues are complicated, but #1 might prove insurmountable. We'd want Clemson and FSU, UW and Oregon are ok too. But what about the rest of the Pac? What do you do with the ACC? A full breakaway of the entire P5, led by a collaboration between the SEC and B1G, seems much more feasible. Possibly include the BE and AAC, maybe even a few others that show potential. Jeez, I've been thinking about this for years, and I can't even come up with something without changing my mind 3 times in 1 paragraph, how are you going to get 32 schools to agree on the right format.

What a mess. Should be fun seeing how they sort things out over time.
01-18-2023 04:57 PM
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Skyhawk Offline
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Post: #3
RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-18-2023 04:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it’s time for the SEC and Big 10 to partner and plot their breakaway from the NCAA. Working together, as opposed to against each other, they can maximize the value of their revenue sports and cut the NCAA’s grubby fingers from the pot. As partners, they can work together to strategically add other members to the consortium rather than battle for commonly sought prizes. Together they have the greatest leverage of the networks.

If you're talking football-only, sure, I think that's probably a good idea.

And really the top end of FBS could make the trip. Just set some benchmarks, and move on.

But I think if they try more than one sport (and not "all"), then it could be problematic.

The other way to do this would be to just follow the example of boxing, and just have the NCAA no longer support football.

It would probably simplify a lot of things if that happened.
01-18-2023 05:04 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
It would no doubt be challenging, but together they’d have the power to make the decisions they want, rather letting the NCAA and 30 other conferences steer the ship.
01-18-2023 05:06 PM
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RutgersMike Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
I believe they are already partnering. The only point of contention was the current FB playoff. The B1G would not agree to an early expansion under the current ESPN contract. The expanded playoff benefits both conferences and having multiple networks carry the playoff benefits everyone.
01-18-2023 06:21 PM
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goofus Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
The SEC is probably thinking...

Why don't we just invite Ohio St, PSU, Mich, USC, ND, and UNC to the SEC and forget everybody else.
01-18-2023 08:38 PM
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DavidSt Online
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
Not going to happened as college sports from all levels are faced with the same rules and all that.
01-18-2023 08:52 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-18-2023 08:38 PM)goofus Wrote:  The SEC is probably thinking...

Why don't we just invite Ohio St, PSU, Mich, USC, ND, and UNC to the SEC and forget everybody else.

I think that the SEC may have thought that in the past, Goofus, but abandoned due to potential legal hassles. That and the fact that we all know that ND will remain indy indefinitely.
The biggest point of contention I see is academics. The SEC wants a lot more of its members in the AAU. The B1G would prefer to keep their monopoly on the AAU. So, we have a Mexican standoff.
01-18-2023 08:52 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-18-2023 04:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it’s time for the SEC and Big 10 to partner and plot their breakaway from the NCAA. Working together, as opposed to against each other, they can maximize the value of their revenue sports and cut the NCAA’s grubby fingers from the pot. As partners, they can work together to strategically add other members to the consortium rather than battle for commonly sought prizes. Together they have the greatest leverage of the networks.

On forums like this we tend to portray the NCAA as some sort of villain standing in the way of progress in college sports. I'm not sure we always realize what a massive and complicated task they have. I for one was very surprised to learn that in the NCAA alone (excluding NAIA and JUCOs) almost half a million athletes participate in intercollegiate sports.

About 670 schools (more than two thirds of the NCAA membership) in the NCAA play football, and that number is now increasing by 5 or 6 schools a year. The rate of growth in the number of NCAA football teams isn't slowing - it is accelerating. And at any given time it appears that more and more of those schools are trying or considering to move up in class to a more costly level of competition.

The 900 or more NCAA member schools don't think of themselves as subordinates of the NCAA president. Think of it as if the NCAA president has 900 bosses he is simultaneously trying to satisfy. That's just not workable, and hasn't been for a long time.

Now imagine what it will be like if all of a sudden 600,000 or more athletes are deemed to be employees by legislation or court rulings. If you think things are chaotic today, hold on to your hats. We ain't seen nuthin' yet.
01-18-2023 08:58 PM
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GarnetAndBlue Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-18-2023 08:38 PM)goofus Wrote:  The SEC is probably thinking...

Why don't we just invite Ohio St, PSU, Mich, USC, ND, and UNC to the SEC and forget everybody else.

That would be a weird carve-out, but I suppose less odd than USC/UCLA to the B1G. And they'd have to rename the SEC (or rebrand it to stand for something other than "Southeastern"), which would signal the end of days for many. At some point, it just makes college athletics an increasingly niche pastime with no regional tradition and painful scheduling/logistics. But, hey, let's jump that shark baby!
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2023 08:36 AM by GarnetAndBlue.)
01-18-2023 09:02 PM
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Fanofreason Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
They need to no longer be collegiate sports to kill off title 9
01-18-2023 09:10 PM
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-18-2023 09:10 PM)Fanofreason Wrote:  They need to no longer be collegiate sports to kill off title 9

The university presidents of these schools are very liberal and love Title IX. Killing off Title IX is not on their agenda.
01-18-2023 09:15 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-18-2023 08:38 PM)goofus Wrote:  The SEC is probably thinking...

Why don't we just invite Ohio St, PSU, Mich, USC, ND, and UNC to the SEC and forget everybody else.

If there were any chance those schools would accept, I think the SEC could go much bigger. I would propose going to 30 teams, but with Vanderbilt accepting a buyout rather than getting beat up every week.

I see a League with two conferences of 3 divisions each.

The Southeast Conference has:

Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Mississippi St, Ole Miss
Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky
Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech, NC State

The Northwest Conference consists of:

Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State
Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Texas, Missouri, Arkansas
Notre Dame, Oregon, Washington, Southern Cal, UCLA

Schedule is 4 game round robin within division, 5 OOD games within conference, and 3 games against the other conference. No games outside the League.


10 team Conference Championship Tournament (CCT). The 6 division champs get a first round bye. The 4 best records among non-champs play first round at home field of the teams with the 2 best records in Week 14. Quarterfinals played at home field of best 4 records among division champs. Semifinals at neutral site on New Years Day, and Finals 2nd Monday in January.

The League Champion would generally be recognized as National Champion and the League wouldn't have to share the revenue from the CCT with anyone else.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2023 08:15 AM by ken d.)
01-19-2023 09:07 PM
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CardinalJim Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
I’m sure The SEC would be excited to partner with The Big Ten. They just watched The Big Ten stab its 120 plus year partner, The PAC, in the back and take two of its most valuable schools.
01-19-2023 09:13 PM
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Skyhawk Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-19-2023 09:07 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 08:38 PM)goofus Wrote:  The SEC is probably thinking...

Why don't we just invite Ohio St, PSU, Mich, USC, ND, and UNC to the SEC and forget everybody else.

If there were any chance those schools would accept, I think the SEC could go much bigger. I would propose going to 30 teams, but with Vanderbilt accepting a buyout rather than getting beat up every week.

I see a League with two conferences of 3 divisions each.

The Southeast Conference has:

Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Mississippi St, Ole Miss
Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky
Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech, NC State

The Northwest Conference consists of:

Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State
Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Texas, Missouri, Arkansas
Notre Dame, Oregon, Washington, Southern Cal, UCLA

Schedule is 4 game round robin within division, 5 OOD games within conference, and 3 games against the other division. No games outside the League.


10 team Conference Championship Tournament (CCT). The 6 division champs get a first round bye. The 4 best records among non-champs play first round at home field of the teams with the 2 best records in Week 14. Quarterfinals played at home field of best 4 records among division champs. Semifinals at neutral site on New Years Day, and Finals 2nd Monday in January.

The League Champion would generally be recognized as National Champion and the League wouldn't have to share the revenue from the CCT with anyone else.

interesting idea, though some of the school choices are curious when I think about "why this one and not that one?"
01-19-2023 09:16 PM
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Skyhawk Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-19-2023 09:13 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I’m sure The SEC would be excited to partner with The Big Ten. They just watched The Big Ten stab its 120 plus year partner, The PAC, in the back and take two of its most valuable schools.

and if the ACC was like the PAC and had no exit fee or GoR to be concerned about, would the SEC blink at raiding the ACC? : )

But I agree, I don't think this will happen, at least not in this way, they'll want more than just 32+ schools, if for no other reason to try to have some cover against claims of unfairness and inclusion/exclusion.
01-19-2023 09:19 PM
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Gitanole Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-18-2023 08:58 PM)ken d Wrote:  On forums like this we tend to portray the NCAA as some sort of villain standing in the way of progress in college sports. I'm not sure we always realize what a massive and complicated task they have. I for one was very surprised to learn that in the NCAA alone (excluding NAIA and JUCOs) almost half a million athletes participate in intercollegiate sports.
....

Thanks. A welcome appreciation for an organization that does much good and remains (ever more refreshingly) non-profit.

The NCAA takes care of thousands of student athletes. Much of this work goes unappreciated by most sports writers as it involves (1) sports that generate little readership for them, (2) schools that lack 'rabid' fan bases, and (3) the occasional need to safeguard student wellbeing at the expense of sports writers' fun.

Sports writers have the bullhorn, so their prejudices tend to become ours. Clemson University football players interest them; Castleton University women's ice hockey players, not so much. The NCAA, however, must meet obligations to all these students.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2023 07:10 AM by Gitanole.)
01-20-2023 07:08 AM
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Skyhawk Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-20-2023 07:08 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 08:58 PM)ken d Wrote:  On forums like this we tend to portray the NCAA as some sort of villain standing in the way of progress in college sports. I'm not sure we always realize what a massive and complicated task they have. I for one was very surprised to learn that in the NCAA alone (excluding NAIA and JUCOs) almost half a million athletes participate in intercollegiate sports.
....

Thanks. A welcome appreciation for an organization that does much good and remains (ever more refreshingly) non-profit.

The NCAA takes care of thousands of student athletes. Much of this work goes unappreciated by most sports writers as it involves (1) sports that generate little readership for them, (2) schools that lack 'rabid' fan bases, and (3) the occasional need to safeguard student wellbeing at the expense of sports writers' fun.

Sports writers have the bullhorn, so their prejudices tend to become ours. Clemson University football players interest them; Castleton University women's ice hockey players, not so much. The NCAA, however, must meet obligations to all these students.

Agreed.

But looking at everything, I think college football, or at the very least fbs football, is showing signs that it has outgrown the ncaa.

And I think if it isn't able or allowed to move on from the ncaa, all the other sports are likely to be negatively affected.
01-20-2023 07:17 AM
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Gitanole Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-19-2023 09:13 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I’m sure The SEC would be excited to partner with The Big Ten. They just watched The Big Ten stab its 120 plus year partner, The PAC, in the back and take two of its most valuable schools.

Yeah, that kind of thing tends to be a behavior modifier. No one wants to be the next commissioner standing at a mike to announce an 'alliance' with the Big Ten.
01-20-2023 07:17 AM
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Gitanole Offline
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RE: It’s time the Big 10 and SEC partnered
(01-20-2023 07:17 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(01-20-2023 07:08 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 08:58 PM)ken d Wrote:  On forums like this we tend to portray the NCAA as some sort of villain standing in the way of progress in college sports. I'm not sure we always realize what a massive and complicated task they have. I for one was very surprised to learn that in the NCAA alone (excluding NAIA and JUCOs) almost half a million athletes participate in intercollegiate sports.
....

Thanks. A welcome appreciation for an organization that does much good and remains (ever more refreshingly) non-profit.

The NCAA takes care of thousands of student athletes. Much of this work goes unappreciated by most sports writers as it involves (1) sports that generate little readership for them, (2) schools that lack 'rabid' fan bases, and (3) the occasional need to safeguard student wellbeing at the expense of sports writers' fun.

Sports writers have the bullhorn, so their prejudices tend to become ours. Clemson University football players interest them; Castleton University women's ice hockey players, not so much. The NCAA, however, must meet obligations to all these students.

Agreed.

But looking at everything, I think college football, or at the very least fbs football, is showing signs that it has outgrown the ncaa.

And I think if it isn't able or allowed to move on from the ncaa, all the other sports are likely to be negatively affected.

For-profit enterprises do tend to chafe under the supervision of non-profit organizations.
01-20-2023 07:20 AM
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