(01-20-2023 07:17 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(01-20-2023 07:08 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:58 PM)ken d Wrote:  On forums like this we tend to portray the NCAA as some sort of villain standing in the way of progress in college sports. I'm not sure we always realize what a massive and complicated task they have. I for one was very surprised to learn that in the NCAA alone (excluding NAIA and JUCOs) almost half a million athletes participate in intercollegiate sports.
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Thanks. A welcome appreciation for an organization that does much good and remains (ever more refreshingly) non-profit.

The NCAA takes care of thousands of student athletes. Much of this work goes unappreciated by most sports writers as it involves (1) sports that generate little readership for them, (2) schools that lack 'rabid' fan bases, and (3) the occasional need to safeguard student wellbeing at the expense of sports writers' fun.

Sports writers have the bullhorn, so their prejudices tend to become ours. Clemson University football players interest them; Castleton University women's ice hockey players, not so much. The NCAA, however, must meet obligations to all these students.

Agreed.

But looking at everything, I think college football, or at the very least fbs football, is showing signs that it has outgrown the ncaa.

And I think if it isn't able or allowed to move on from the ncaa, all the other sports are likely to be negatively affected.

I agree. I've argued for years that the NCAA should get out of the football business because of its outsized impact on all other sports.

The B1G and SEC might be the two biggest conferences but they are polar opposites philosophically. The SEC is a true athletic conference where sports is the focus and anything else is secondary. On the other hand the B1G is as much an academic alliance as it is an athletic conference. There is no way that the B1G presidents would want to be associated with most of the SEC schools because they aren't AAU. The people that think those two will break off don't understand the behind the scenes politics that goes into these types of decisions.

Yes, the Big 10 and SEC have it so bad, now is definitely time for them to break away.

(01-18-2023 04:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it’s time for the SEC and Big 10 to partner and plot their breakaway from the NCAA. Working together, as opposed to against each other, they can maximize the value of their revenue sports and cut the NCAA’s grubby fingers from the pot. As partners, they can work together to strategically add other members to the consortium rather than battle for commonly sought prizes. Together they have the greatest leverage of the networks.

The NCAA is insular protection to the SEC and Big Ten and it bends its will to keep them satisfied.

There is no need yet to breakaway

(01-18-2023 09:02 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 08:38 PM)goofus Wrote:  The SEC is probably thinking...

Why don't we just invite Ohio St, PSU, Mich, USC, ND, and UNC to the SEC and forget everybody else.

That would be a weird carve-out, but I suppose less odd than USC/UCLA to the B1G. And they'd have to rename the SEC (or rebrand it to stand for something other than "Southeastern"), which would signal the end of days for many. At some point, it just makes college athletics an increasingly niche pastime with no regional tradition and painful scheduling/logistics. But, hey, let's jump that shark baby!

I still don’t think a lot of people internalize how (to put it bluntly) snobby several of these schools are, particularly Michigan, USC and ND.

A true break-off Super League that solely takes the top football brands is unlikely to me, but that at least addresses their snobbery issue and would obviously make a ton of money. So, I can’t totally discount that from happening.

In contrast, there’s absolutely no world where the University of Michigan joins the SEC as-is where it still has schools like Mississippi State. The bottom of the Big Ten like Rutgers and Northwestern are massive market alumni centers that serve the interests of Michigan/OSU/PSU much more than the bottom of the SEC. No one is questioning the value of the top SEC schools like Alabama, Florida, Texas and Oklahoma, but there’s no inherent reason why any of the top Big Ten schools want to be associated with, say, the Mississippi schools, South Carolina, or Missouri or find them any more valuable than the bottom Big Ten schools. The fact that the Big Ten still has signed a larger TV contract than the SEC every single time over the past 25 years reflects this.

(01-18-2023 08:38 PM)goofus Wrote:  The SEC is probably thinking...

Why don't we just invite Ohio St, PSU, Mich, USC, ND, and UNC to the SEC and forget everybody else.

Give it 10 years and it'll be on the table.

(01-20-2023 08:35 AM)CFBLurker Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 04:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it’s time for the SEC and Big 10 to partner and plot their breakaway from the NCAA. Working together, as opposed to against each other, they can maximize the value of their revenue sports and cut the NCAA’s grubby fingers from the pot. As partners, they can work together to strategically add other members to the consortium rather than battle for commonly sought prizes. Together they have the greatest leverage of the networks.

The NCAA is insular protection to the SEC and Big Ten and it bends its will to keep them satisfied.

There is no need yet to breakaway

The SEC and Big Ten don't need to break away. It's most of the rest of FBS that need for it to happen. But their egos cause them to hang on desperately, even if they could compete better without them.

Muskie what could work is for the two to simply make a scheduling agreement. The SEC won't be boxed in by Big 10 standards for membership and the Big 10 isn't giving up a central tenet of its image.

In brainstorming a year or so ago about where all of this would lead it is this concept that led me to talk about the Big 10 eventually absorbing the 9 AAU members of the PAC 12 and adding Notre Dame. Why was obvious. The two had the most in common and academics are a priority in each. In my consideration the Rose Bowl was a nice contributing factor but not the cruxt of the association which aligns much of the PAC 12 more academically and somewhat more politically (though certainly there are exceptions in each) where even in their diversity politically they are more similar than dissimilar.

The SEC could more naturally expand out of its old first cousins of the Southern Conference. There is history, continued scheduling with, and a common culture socially with much of the ACC. Schools like Kansas might be of interest.

The obstacle to this was always equal revenue sharing. I think that obstacle will be removed. A coalescing of the rest into a new Big 12 or another conference then covers the upper tier. These additions, if they do not have to be paid equally, could balance the schedules of the SEC and Big 10 and allow for a better concentration of power in the new expanded playoffs.

I think the delay right now is over pending pushes by the NCAA with Congress, the coming issues with collective bargaining, pay for play, and unions. Basketball could be in the balance as well.

Once the more professional option is in place it should give smaller schools the legal cover they need to keep amateur sports in some form. We'll see.

(01-18-2023 04:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it’s time for the SEC and Big 10 to partner and plot their breakaway from the NCAA. Working together, as opposed to against each other, they can maximize the value of their revenue sports and cut the NCAA’s grubby fingers from the pot. As partners, they can work together to strategically add other members to the consortium rather than battle for commonly sought prizes. Together they have the greatest leverage of the networks.

Why? Is the way it is now so bad?

(01-18-2023 04:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it’s time for the SEC and Big 10 to partner and plot their breakaway from the NCAA. Working together, as opposed to against each other, they can maximize the value of their revenue sports and cut the NCAA’s grubby fingers from the pot. As partners, they can work together to strategically add other members to the consortium rather than battle for commonly sought prizes. Together they have the greatest leverage of the networks.

No.

The fun of the NCAA Tourn and College Football is all the other schools - I could care less to watch Ohio St vs SEC in every FB championship and care even less to watch B1G teams sludge through 55-47 basketball games.