It was one day. A bad day.
The sky isn’t falling. Concerning? Sure but remember this team hasn’t played meaningful games for quite a while.

Relax. If we are seeing the same issues several games down the road then perhaps we need to have this discussion.

(02-10-2023 07:17 PM)JMU83 Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 07:12 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  I just read through this thread. Typical JMU fandom-type comments. Extrapolating the end of the world from an early slow start.

Give the over-analyzing a rest folks. Let’s see what happens as the season progresses.

I could agree with your statement except this is a continuation of below avg performance from last season.

The team started slow last year, but finished strong (on an 8 game winning streak), with the easiest part of the schedule to play when the season was cut short.

Finishing at .500 (21-21) in 2022 was disappointing for those expecting another 40+ win season, but had the season not been cut short there was a good chance the team would have posted a winning record. Keep things in perspective.

(02-10-2023 07:48 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 07:17 PM)JMU83 Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 07:12 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  I just read through this thread. Typical JMU fandom-type comments. Extrapolating the end of the world from an early slow start.

Give the over-analyzing a rest folks. Let’s see what happens as the season progresses.

I could agree with your statement except this is a continuation of below avg performance from last season.

The team started slow last year, but finished strong (on an 8 game winning streak), with the easiest part of the schedule to play when the season was cut short.

Finishing at .500 (21-21) in 2022 was disappointing for those expecting another 40+ win season, but had the season not been cut short there was a good chance the team would have posted a winning record. Keep things in perspective.

I would hope our goals are greater than playing for a winning record.

Seniors and having a stud on the mound, make a team great.

Bad start and it's definitely concerning after a down year last year, but as far as the 2023 results go it's one bad day. These girls and coaches have been through a lot and getting back out there might be pretty emotional for a while and take some time to get back to normal.

No need to get down on our girls right off the bat. We're in a much tougher softball conference now so if the concerns are legit then our record probably won't leave much doubt.

I see a lot of apologies.
Am I the only one that thinks our program should have steamrolled these two teams? Both were average to sub-average and we made the CWS two years ago. Where is our recruiting bump? At best, these two would have been run-ruled in the past. A bad outing would have been a 7 inning win by 3-4 runs. We lost both.

And before the apologists chime in, let's be reminded that EVERY SINGLE TEAM that made the CWS in 2021 made the NCAAs last year. I realize we lost a ton, but apparently, we are the exception and everyone else is the norm.

The apologists are predictable. Last year ended in tragedy, yes. It was horrible.

That being said....We had reached a point where we reloaded, not rebuilt. We're 2 years removed from the WCWS, wins over Oklahoma, Okie State, Mizzou. We had been in regionals or super regionals for the last decade. Our facility is first class, and getting better. I would expect those facts to lead to better recruiting/talent, and that doesn't seem to be happening.

Yes, the season is young, but JMU softball should never flirt with .500 and chalk it up to rebuilding. That mentality is what allowed our basketball to fade into obscurity, and you can look at Eagle field for another program allowed to mire itself in mediocrity. It is ok to have candid talks about issues that are borne out through results. College athletics at the D1 level is a results business. Softball and baseball might not ever be "revenue" sports at JMU, but they're far and away the most popular sports after Football and Men's/Women's BBall. We need our Spring diamond sports to step up in the SBC. The SBC is a top softball/baseball conference, and we'll have excellent competition and national attention.

I hope today was an aberration, but neither of those teams are anywhere NEAR the level we will compete against in conference. It is concerning.

(02-10-2023 06:08 PM)#YEEHAWDUKES Wrote:  How do you go from winning a game against Oklahoma in the college World Series to losing to Chattanooga and Indiana State two seasons later

Lose the entire starting lineup and a great pitcher. Why does this surprise anyone?

(02-10-2023 08:38 PM)JMU83 Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 07:48 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 07:17 PM)JMU83 Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 07:12 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  I just read through this thread. Typical JMU fandom-type comments. Extrapolating the end of the world from an early slow start.

Give the over-analyzing a rest folks. Let’s see what happens as the season progresses.

I could agree with your statement except this is a continuation of below avg performance from last season.

The team started slow last year, but finished strong (on an 8 game winning streak), with the easiest part of the schedule to play when the season was cut short.

Finishing at .500 (21-21) in 2022 was disappointing for those expecting another 40+ win season, but had the season not been cut short there was a good chance the team would have posted a winning record. Keep things in perspective.

I would hope our goals are greater than playing for a winning record.

Come on, you know what the ambitions are. That’s a silly post.

(02-10-2023 10:55 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I see a lot of apologies.
Am I the only one that thinks our program should have steamrolled these two teams? Both were average to sub-average and we made the CWS two years ago. Where is our recruiting bump? At best, these two would have been run-ruled in the past. A bad outing would have been a 7 inning win by 3-4 runs. We lost both.

And before the apologists chime in, let's be reminded that EVERY SINGLE TEAM that made the CWS in 2021 made the NCAAs last year. I realize we lost a ton, but apparently, we are the exception and everyone else is the norm.

I don’t believe I’m an apologist (whatever that’s supposed to be). I’m a realist. And JMU didn’t just “lose a ton” from the WCWS team, they lost the entire starting team, except for a sophomore catcher that decided to take her own life. Let’s get a little perspective here. If my realistic assessment amounts to being an “apologist” then I guess I’m guilty as charged. Getting exercised two games into a new season is a bit over the top.

So, please JMU faithful, take a deep breath. Stop projecting YOUR expectations about how the current team should blow-out every opponent. Alabama doesn’t win the NC in football every year. The Yankees don’t win the World Series every year. Tom Brady didn’t win every Super Bowl. The Dukes run to the WCWS was special. Making the post-season and ultimately playing again in the WCWS is still the goal, but let’s not become “that fan base” whose expectation make the joy of rooting unpleasant.

(02-11-2023 12:13 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 10:55 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I see a lot of apologies.
Am I the only one that thinks our program should have steamrolled these two teams? Both were average to sub-average and we made the CWS two years ago. Where is our recruiting bump? At best, these two would have been run-ruled in the past. A bad outing would have been a 7 inning win by 3-4 runs. We lost both.

And before the apologists chime in, let's be reminded that EVERY SINGLE TEAM that made the CWS in 2021 made the NCAAs last year. I realize we lost a ton, but apparently, we are the exception and everyone else is the norm.

I don’t believe I’m an apologist (whatever that’s supposed to be). I’m a realist. And JMU didn’t just “lose a ton” from the WCWS team, they lost the entire starting team, except for a sophomore catcher that decided to take her own life. Let’s get a little perspective here. If my realistic assessment amounts to being an “apologist” then I guess I’m guilty as charged. Getting exercised two games into a new season is a bit over the top.

So, please JMU faithful, take a deep breath. Stop projecting YOUR expectations about how the current team should blow-out every opponent. Alabama doesn’t win the NC in football every year. The Yankees don’t win the World Series every year. Tom Brady didn’t win every Super Bowl. The Dukes run to the WCWS was special. Making the post-season and ultimately playing again in the WCWS is still the goal, but let’s not become “that fan base” whose expectation make the joy of rooting unpleasant.

sanctimonious

(02-10-2023 10:55 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I see a lot of apologies.
Am I the only one that thinks our program should have steamrolled these two teams? Both were average to sub-average and we made the CWS two years ago. Where is our recruiting bump? At best, these two would have been run-ruled in the past. A bad outing would have been a 7 inning win by 3-4 runs. We lost both.

And before the apologists chime in, let's be reminded that EVERY SINGLE TEAM that made the CWS in 2021 made the NCAAs last year. I realize we lost a ton, but apparently, we are the exception and everyone else is the norm.

There is no doubt we had a magical run in 2021 and it's the greatest run by a mid-major in the history of college softball. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure none of the players on that team were top 30 or even top 50 talent when recruited. With the exception of Jubas, Gordon and Alexander, the rest of the team was pretty much average+ CAA talent and they steamrolled through the regular season without facing any top 25 team or, for that matter, any team that went to the tournament in 2021. Yet, managed to beat every postseason opponent, including #1 Oklahoma.


All of the freshman in the class of 2022 committed long before that world series run. The recruitment bump is now appearing this season with Berry, Mathis, Henzler and Nash. Next year we get Kirsten Fleet and Madison Edwards. Berry, Mathis and Fleet are top 20 players.

The teams that make the WCWS every year are replenished with the top 30 recruits every single year, by and large. Normally, we compete for the rest, with all of the other teams.

Here are the national recruiting rankings pulled from NSD press releases. As JMad stated, we are at the start of the second Supers and WCWS bump. Still a young team and unless you’re OU, Alabama, Florida, I don’t expect many dominant first year players. Today was concerning but there might be some hope looking at this breakdown of starters by graduating class.

2023 (HS senior): Kirsten Fleet (Top 20)
2022 (Freshmen): Bella Henzler (#67th), Kylah Berry (NCAA’s Top-55 freshmen to know), KK Mathis (NR)
—— WCWS Run ——
2021 (Sophomores): Isabelle Fishman (Top-100), Jasmine Hall (#74th), Kylee Gleason (NR)
2020: (Juniors): Alissa Humphrey (Transfer/NR)
—— Supers Run ——
2019: (Seniors): Reed Butler (NR)
2018 (Covid Seniors): Hannah Shifflett (NR), Hallie Hall (NR).

When you consider that our seniors signed even before our 2019 Supers Run, we didn’t have the recognition of our second Supers in 4 years. Our oldest players also sat for many years behind the 2021 starters, couple it with a shortened year last year and this is a team that doesn’t have much game experience. Still a very young team and I hope the 2021-23 classes can be stars.

(02-11-2023 01:48 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(02-11-2023 12:13 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 10:55 PM)olddawg Wrote:  I see a lot of apologies.
Am I the only one that thinks our program should have steamrolled these two teams? Both were average to sub-average and we made the CWS two years ago. Where is our recruiting bump? At best, these two would have been run-ruled in the past. A bad outing would have been a 7 inning win by 3-4 runs. We lost both.

And before the apologists chime in, let's be reminded that EVERY SINGLE TEAM that made the CWS in 2021 made the NCAAs last year. I realize we lost a ton, but apparently, we are the exception and everyone else is the norm.

I don’t believe I’m an apologist (whatever that’s supposed to be). I’m a realist. And JMU didn’t just “lose a ton” from the WCWS team, they lost the entire starting team, except for a sophomore catcher that decided to take her own life. Let’s get a little perspective here. If my realistic assessment amounts to being an “apologist” then I guess I’m guilty as charged. Getting exercised two games into a new season is a bit over the top.

So, please JMU faithful, take a deep breath. Stop projecting YOUR expectations about how the current team should blow-out every opponent. Alabama doesn’t win the NC in football every year. The Yankees don’t win the World Series every year. Tom Brady didn’t win every Super Bowl. The Dukes run to the WCWS was special. Making the post-season and ultimately playing again in the WCWS is still the goal, but let’s not become “that fan base” whose expectation make the joy of rooting unpleasant.

sanctimonious

Truthful.

(02-10-2023 11:36 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 06:08 PM)#YEEHAWDUKES Wrote:  How do you go from winning a game against Oklahoma in the college World Series to losing to Chattanooga and Indiana State two seasons later

Lose the entire starting lineup and a great pitcher. Why does this surprise anyone?

Starting the season 0-2 with losses to Chattanooga and Indiana State doesn’t surprise you?

Mettlen writes the Dukes offense is really powerful…

https://www.dnronline.com/sports/college...y's_sports

(02-10-2023 11:31 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  The apologists are predictable. Last year ended in tragedy, yes. It was horrible.

That being said....We had reached a point where we reloaded, not rebuilt. We're 2 years removed from the WCWS, wins over Oklahoma, Okie State, Mizzou. We had been in regionals or super regionals for the last decade. Our facility is first class, and getting better. I would expect those facts to lead to better recruiting/talent, and that doesn't seem to be happening.

Yes, the season is young, but JMU softball should never flirt with .500 and chalk it up to rebuilding. That mentality is what allowed our basketball to fade into obscurity, and you can look at Eagle field for another program allowed to mire itself in mediocrity. It is ok to have candid talks about issues that are borne out through results. College athletics at the D1 level is a results business. Softball and baseball might not ever be "revenue" sports at JMU, but they're far and away the most popular sports after Football and Men's/Women's BBall. We need our Spring diamond sports to step up in the SBC. The SBC is a top softball/baseball conference, and we'll have excellent competition and national attention.

I hope today was an aberration, but neither of those teams are anywhere NEAR the level we will compete against in conference. It is concerning.

Good post. I'm surprised Longhorn didn't call it silly!

(02-11-2023 07:58 AM)Bawlmer Duke Wrote:  Mettlen writes the Dukes offense is really powerful…

https://www.dnronline.com/sports/college...y's_sports

I read that article before the games yesterday. Have to say I was pleasantly surprised to hear such optimism, as last years bats were definitely lacking. Yesterday's performance came in at a blistering .167 average for both games though.

I started following JMU softball in 2015.
From 2015 through 2021, our team batting average was .325
Last year, we batted .277 as a team
That's a 48 point drop over the previous 7 year rolling average and is statistically significant.

the people on here saying "we lost a ton" from the WCWS team are proving exactly why some questions need to be asked.

that "ton" was recruited by the prior coach. it's fair to ask questions in Year 5 of the next coach after the one that brought in all that WCWS talent.

Softball isn't football or basketball, but the WCWS run showed exactly how it CAN bring lots of attention. it's a sport we want to do well in, not settle for mediocrity.

Both games cancelled today due to weather.