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A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #21
RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-19-2023 08:17 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Nice read. I think UCF is a solid example of what making and following through with the right decisions can do for a school.

That may be true, but let's not kid ourselves here. The huge demographic shifts in favor of Florida in general created a very favorable situation for UCF to tap into. You put the exact same admin in place at a similar-sized directional school in the Rust Belt a few decades ago and you wouldn't get nearly the same success that we've seen in Orlando (as an athletic department or university). UCF still made it happen and they deserve credit for tapping into it, but they aren't where they are today without the State of Florida growing to where it is now.
01-23-2023 09:07 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #22
RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-23-2023 09:07 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(01-19-2023 08:17 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Nice read. I think UCF is a solid example of what making and following through with the right decisions can do for a school.

That may be true, but let's not kid ourselves here. The huge demographic shifts in favor of Florida in general created a very favorable situation for UCF to tap into. You put the exact same admin in place at a similar-sized directional school in the Rust Belt a few decades ago and you wouldn't get nearly the same success that we've seen in Orlando (as an athletic department or university). UCF still made it happen and they deserve credit for tapping into it, but they aren't where they are today without the State of Florida growing to where it is now.

And at the same time, USF, FAU, and FIU did not take advantage the way UCF did. If Rutgers were in Maine instead of greater NYC, they'd still be in the AAC. If Texas had the same population density as New Mexico, there would be just a few mediocre football programs in the state. Heck, why isn't North Texas entering the Big 12 instead of Houston? They've been around just as long with the same demographic opportunities.

Due to the nature of the conference system, which artificially stifles growth and competition, it is very difficult to build a program beyond the constraints of where the program finds itself without some sort of demographic or financial changes that accrue to an advantage. It's doubtful that anyone could have made Kent State into a P5 program under conditions, but it's also equally likely that the schools that took advantage of opportunities could have ended up failing.

Boise, clearly, has outperformed what any metric suggests that it should accomplish. They are a tremendous outlier, and it sucks for them that competitiveness on the field isn't the only thing that matters in realignment. But everyone that has moved up from the non-AQ/G5 has had changing conditions or a competitive advantage, which coupled with the right decision making, afforded them the opportunity.* TCU had financial and demographic resources coupled with a great FB hire and aggressive realignment moves. Louisville had a major metropolitan area without pro sports and was able to build up support over the years, especially through basketball and the amount of money it brings in for them. Utah similarly had growing demographics along with the PAC-10 having relatively few candidates in their geographic area.

Boise is clearly the best example of building an elite program without any advantages, and it's pretty much the only one. Could UCF have built itself without Florida's population growing and the tremendous student enrollment? No, I don't think so. We've never had an AD of that quality until Danny White, who is ultimately responsible for getting us over the top. But programs should learn from Boise and from North Dakota State, which reminds me a lot of Boise. Commit to a system and hire coaches who are familiar with the system and culture to keep it going when people leave. Always be developing assistants who can be the future HC. Have a great culture where coaches and players want to stay and are committed to the enterprise.

*Except Rutgers. They didn't do anything except found a university right near NYC. Even Maryland at least had success in FB and BB from time to time. There's not a luckier, less deserving P5 program than Rutgers, though a few come close through historical accident.
(This post was last modified: 01-23-2023 01:45 PM by CitrusUCF.)
01-23-2023 01:44 PM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-19-2023 08:17 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Nice read. I think UCF is a solid example of what making and following through with the right decisions can do for a school.

As long as you're in a major TV market, yes.
01-23-2023 03:08 PM
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RobUCF Offline
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RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-21-2023 06:55 PM)No Bull Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 12:25 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 11:35 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  Good article here by Marc Daniels and Scott Harris about UCF's path to joining the MAC in 2002 and how it helped get them to where they are today.

On a "Final Note," are the authors teasing the current price of eggs or perhaps providing a clue to the future intentions of the Delaware Blue Hens?

https://969thegame.iheart.com/content/20...o-the-mac/

Great Read, love Marc Daniels.

Never knew the Horizon league made such an impact in the UCF's trajectory.

Most UCF fans consider the MAC years the Dark Age of UCF athletics. I can see how it was an essential period in our history. The Marshall rivalry was a nice development for a time.

///

His final notes are always random factoids.

From his Tua article:
"Final note: Orange juice is the top selling juice in the world. Apple and cranberry sit second and third."

From his transfer portal article:
"Final note: Eggnog dates back to the 1770's and was also called Eggflip by the British."

I enjoyed the MAC years. It was a thrill to join a conference with programs like Marshall and Toledo. We quickly found out the MAC played some big time football. Good times for sure. I still watch all the MACTION I can

I have family up in northeast Ohio so I enjoyed the MAC years as well. Well, with one exception - the 2004 season, and specifically the OT loss to Ohio in the Citrus Bowl where Matt Prater (who just finished up his 16th season kicking in the NFL and has been to multiple Pro Bowls) missed an extra point after a TD at the end of OT that would have tied the game. Another side note is that season another future NFL Pro Bowler, WR Brandon Marshall, started 7 games for us that season - at safety.
01-23-2023 05:13 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #25
RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-23-2023 09:07 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  That may be true, but let's not kid ourselves here. The huge demographic shifts in favor of Florida in general created a very favorable situation for UCF to tap into. You put the exact same admin in place at a similar-sized directional school in the Rust Belt a few decades ago and you wouldn't get nearly the same success that we've seen in Orlando (as an athletic department or university). UCF still made it happen and they deserve credit for tapping into it, but they aren't where they are today without the State of Florida growing to where it is now.

(01-23-2023 03:08 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  As long as you're in a major TV market, yes.

To both of you don't get me wrong as I've also talked about one of UCF's advantages. But I firmly believe that if they had past leadership similar to what Memphis has had they wouldn't be going to the Big 12 right now.

Louisville is another example of making the right decisions and following through with them. They have been conference mates with Memphis at varying times. They have a similar DMA size and enrollment as Memphis. Yet here they are in the ACC and a top 20 program in revenue and Memphis isn't even close.
01-23-2023 07:04 PM
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jimrtex Online
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RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-23-2023 01:44 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Boise is clearly the best example of building an elite program without any advantages, and it's pretty much the only one. Could UCF have built itself without Florida's population growing and the tremendous student enrollment? No, I don't think so. We've never had an AD of that quality until Danny White, who is ultimately responsible for getting us over the top. But programs should learn from Boise and from North Dakota State, which reminds me a lot of Boise. Commit to a system and hire coaches who are familiar with the system and culture to keep it going when people leave. Always be developing assistants who can be the future HC. Have a great culture where coaches and players want to stay and are committed to the enterprise.
Boise is a pretty substantial city that it fast growing. The metro area is larger than Spokane, and much much larger than Pocatello or Moscow. It is the largest city in an almost 300 mile radius.
01-24-2023 01:17 AM
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ArmoredUpKnight Offline
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Post: #27
RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-23-2023 07:04 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 09:07 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  That may be true, but let's not kid ourselves here. The huge demographic shifts in favor of Florida in general created a very favorable situation for UCF to tap into. You put the exact same admin in place at a similar-sized directional school in the Rust Belt a few decades ago and you wouldn't get nearly the same success that we've seen in Orlando (as an athletic department or university). UCF still made it happen and they deserve credit for tapping into it, but they aren't where they are today without the State of Florida growing to where it is now.

(01-23-2023 03:08 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  As long as you're in a major TV market, yes.

To both of you don't get me wrong as I've also talked about one of UCF's advantages. But I firmly believe that if they had past leadership similar to what Memphis has had they wouldn't be going to the Big 12 right now.

Louisville is another example of making the right decisions and following through with them. They have been conference mates with Memphis at varying times. They have a similar DMA size and enrollment as Memphis. Yet here they are in the ACC and a top 20 program in revenue and Memphis isn't even close.

“It’s too painful”
- Tommy West
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2023 01:26 AM by ArmoredUpKnight.)
01-24-2023 01:25 AM
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RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-18-2023 04:07 PM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 12:51 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  I started at UCF when we were in the MAC. It's amazing what has happened from the days of shoestring budgets playing Eastern Michigan versus heading into the Big 12. The growth has been exponential.

In a state as large and football rich as Florida, it was inevitable that another program (or two) would spring up. There are a number of football rich states that could handle an additional P5 school in their borders, Ohio, Tennessee, Louisiana, all come to mind.

UCF has a lot of potential, I hope they can realize it in the Big 12.

UCF already has football program equal in strength as the average Big12, ACC or PAC team. Makes them kinda scary with the additional “potential” you’ve noted.
01-24-2023 10:49 AM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #29
RE: A Former SEC Commish, Marshall, The Need For $250K: How UCF Got To The MAC
(01-24-2023 01:25 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 07:04 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(01-23-2023 09:07 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  That may be true, but let's not kid ourselves here. The huge demographic shifts in favor of Florida in general created a very favorable situation for UCF to tap into. You put the exact same admin in place at a similar-sized directional school in the Rust Belt a few decades ago and you wouldn't get nearly the same success that we've seen in Orlando (as an athletic department or university). UCF still made it happen and they deserve credit for tapping into it, but they aren't where they are today without the State of Florida growing to where it is now.

(01-23-2023 03:08 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  As long as you're in a major TV market, yes.

To both of you don't get me wrong as I've also talked about one of UCF's advantages. But I firmly believe that if they had past leadership similar to what Memphis has had they wouldn't be going to the Big 12 right now.

Louisville is another example of making the right decisions and following through with them. They have been conference mates with Memphis at varying times. They have a similar DMA size and enrollment as Memphis. Yet here they are in the ACC and a top 20 program in revenue and Memphis isn't even close.

“It’s too painful”
- Tommy West

Yeah. And it's sad he had to do that rant just to get a fire lit to get more effort into football. But we're so behind the others that as I have learned more about realignment over the years it feels surprising that Memphis is even getting considered. In one of our many discussions about an OCS someone asked how many schools moved from a decent-sized off-campus stadium to playing on campus. I looked it up going back to 1990 and two of the five schools were Louisville and UCF.
01-25-2023 09:47 PM
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