(01-18-2023 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:30 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:19 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:16 AM)gdunn Wrote:  You can't blame Trump or a Republican led House for this. Trump left office in 2021, the Dems had control of the House and Senate until a couple weeks ago when the GOP took over. Take off your rose colored glasses and admit that this is on them and move forward. The whataboutism isn't working on me slick.

Who approved the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, and how much did the deficit increase as a direct result from it

Who gave Ukraine billions?

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. If you can be made to believe that the U.S. is just dropping cash on Ukraine, I really don't know how to find common ground with you. We have multiple hundreds of reply threads explaining exactly why you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, but you just keep chugging along with the Fox News misinformation.

Please.. Show me where I don't know what I'm talking about cause Hoss right now you're clearly talking out of your depth.

We overspent. But you can't say it's both sides, you point to the GOP. I'm saying it's both. We have sent BILLIONS. We're out of money.. We agreed to an omnibus spending bill worth TRILLIONS and now the US is out of money, but please tell me about 2017 and Two Santas over and over when I'm telling you it's not one or the other it's both..

How much money have we sent to Ukraine? Not estimates, not valuations, not equipment. How much money? How much of that money has come from taxes? How much money will be made by defense contractors and jobs created by replenishing our outdated equipment with state of the art equipment? How much money will be saved in the future by eliminating Russia as a threat?

And now, finally, how much money is being sent to Ukraine versus how much was lost by Trump's tax cut with the support of then Republicans? Is one bad but not the other?

I'm interested to see how you deflect and delude and whatabout your way to ignoring my point again

(01-18-2023 11:36 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:30 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:19 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Who approved the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, and how much did the deficit increase as a direct result from it

Who gave Ukraine billions?

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. If you can be made to believe that the U.S. is just dropping cash on Ukraine, I really don't know how to find common ground with you. We have multiple hundreds of reply threads explaining exactly why you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, but you just keep chugging along with the Fox News misinformation.

Please.. Show me where I don't know what I'm talking about cause Hoss right now you're clearly talking out of your depth.

We overspent. But you can't say it's both sides, you point to the GOP. I'm saying it's both. We have sent BILLIONS. We're out of money.. We agreed to an omnibus spending bill worth TRILLIONS and now the US is out of money, but please tell me about 2017 and Two Santas over and over when I'm telling you it's not one or the other it's both..

How much money have we sent to Ukraine? Not estimates, not valuations, not equipment. How much money? How much of that money has come from taxes? How much money will be made by replenishing our outdated equipment with state of the art equipment? How much money will be saved in the future by eliminating Russia as a threat?

And now, finally, how much money is being sent to Ukraine versus how much was lost by Trump's tax cut with the support of then Republicans? Is one bad but not the other?

I'm interested to see how you deflect and discuss and whatabout your way to ignoring my point again

Where do you think the money the US operates off of comes from? Clearly you haven't a clue how our government works.

Let me type it slowly...

The US has a tax system. The American people pay taxes. The tax money is used to fund the government. When the government spends that, they borrow money from other countries.. To make this happen it means we've overspent and have to raise a debt ceiling to borrow money.

Tell me what do you think happens to our tax dollars?

As for Ukraine as of November we've sent $68 Billion. And Congress was trying to approve another $37 Billion.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukrain...six-charts

The most partisan hack on this board arguing for fiscal resposibility. And, he doesn't even realize it.

(01-18-2023 11:36 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:30 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:19 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Who approved the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, and how much did the deficit increase as a direct result from it

Who gave Ukraine billions?

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. If you can be made to believe that the U.S. is just dropping cash on Ukraine, I really don't know how to find common ground with you. We have multiple hundreds of reply threads explaining exactly why you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, but you just keep chugging along with the Fox News misinformation.

Please.. Show me where I don't know what I'm talking about cause Hoss right now you're clearly talking out of your depth.

We overspent. But you can't say it's both sides, you point to the GOP. I'm saying it's both. We have sent BILLIONS. We're out of money.. We agreed to an omnibus spending bill worth TRILLIONS and now the US is out of money, but please tell me about 2017 and Two Santas over and over when I'm telling you it's not one or the other it's both..

How much money have we sent to Ukraine? Not estimates, not valuations, not equipment. How much money? How much of that money has come from taxes? How much money will be made by defense contractors and jobs created by replenishing our outdated equipment with state of the art equipment? How much money will be saved in the future by eliminating Russia as a threat?

And now, finally, how much money is being sent to Ukraine versus how much was lost by Trump's tax cut with the support of then Republicans? Is one bad but not the other?

I'm interested to see how you deflect and delude and whatabout your way to ignoring my point again

enough to finish the wall at the southern border and fund the folk to protect such...

but yeah mayun, keep pining for war(s) and the residual impact of such ....ewe're almost in RINO-landia...

There is no reason for the Republicans to blink. Shut it down. It's two years until the next election. The public won't remember or care.

(01-18-2023 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Please.. Show me where I don't know what I'm talking about cause Hoss right now you're clearly talking out of your depth.

That's literally all he ever does.

Its one thing to have a position I disagree with, but he is always talking over his head and does not even understand even the most basic aspects of what he is posting about. He is always clearly lifting points and opinions from somewhere else and post there here, one question or point in response and he is lost every time. So he just tossed out some "muh fox news" response to cover up that he didn't have a clue what he was talking about and had no ability to discuss it on any level.

(01-18-2023 11:42 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  The most partisan hack on this board arguing for fiscal resposibility. And, he doesn't even realize it.

ya can't help but laugh when they open their pie-hole(s)...

(01-18-2023 11:19 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:16 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 10:56 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 10:53 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  The Republican led house sure did approve Trump's frivolous spending quickly. They'll do the same this time right?

Keep up.. This is two years into Biden's term and we ran out of money since we gave billions over to a foreign leader to fight a war... Keep up. This debt ceiling was raised under a total Dem banner and overspent.

To want some cuts and to reduce some spending can't be a bad thing, surely you can see that right?

You know, if the Republicans could be trusted to follow your out-of-touch-with-reality, rose-colored glasses interpretation of how they operate, sure that'd be just fine.

But as history tells us (because Republicans lack the motivation and creativity to be anything but predictable), Republicans want to take away Social Security and Medicare so they can pilfer the government from under your feet when they are in power again.

Look up the "Two Santa Clause Theory". Republicans spend spend spend while in power, funneling tax revenue to private businesses under the illusions of "jobs", and when they break the government from excessive spending, leaving the problem for Democrats to fix, they suddenly pivot and say "The deficit is the only thing that matters!" and quickly become obstructionist to any democrat program. Rinse, repeat, and the Republican base falls for it over and over again. This nonsense has been happening since the 1980's.

You can't blame Trump or a Republican led House for this. Trump left office in 2021, the Dems had control of the House and Senate until a couple weeks ago when the GOP took over. Take off your rose colored glasses and admit that this is on them and move forward. The whataboutism isn't working on me slick.

Who approved the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, and how much did the deficit increase as a direct result from it

Once again for the low iq economic morons:

This law caused receipts to the treasury to explode. Therefore it was not the cause of the deficit going up. Much of that was due to the stupid imbecile known as Obamacare which pushed much of the expenses out to when Obama would no longer be president so complete f*cknuts would be none the wiser.

(01-18-2023 11:42 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  The most partisan hack on this board arguing for fiscal resposibility. And, he doesn't even realize it.

Usually, when one only has talking points, they usually wind up talking themselves in circles.

(01-18-2023 11:42 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:36 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:30 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:24 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Who gave Ukraine billions?

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. If you can be made to believe that the U.S. is just dropping cash on Ukraine, I really don't know how to find common ground with you. We have multiple hundreds of reply threads explaining exactly why you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, but you just keep chugging along with the Fox News misinformation.

Please.. Show me where I don't know what I'm talking about cause Hoss right now you're clearly talking out of your depth.

We overspent. But you can't say it's both sides, you point to the GOP. I'm saying it's both. We have sent BILLIONS. We're out of money.. We agreed to an omnibus spending bill worth TRILLIONS and now the US is out of money, but please tell me about 2017 and Two Santas over and over when I'm telling you it's not one or the other it's both..

How much money have we sent to Ukraine? Not estimates, not valuations, not equipment. How much money? How much of that money has come from taxes? How much money will be made by replenishing our outdated equipment with state of the art equipment? How much money will be saved in the future by eliminating Russia as a threat?

And now, finally, how much money is being sent to Ukraine versus how much was lost by Trump's tax cut with the support of then Republicans? Is one bad but not the other?

I'm interested to see how you deflect and discuss and whatabout your way to ignoring my point again

Where do you think the money the US operates off of comes from? Clearly you haven't a clue how our government works.

Let me type it slowly...

The US has a tax system. The American people pay taxes. The tax money is used to fund the government. When the government spends that, they borrow money from other countries.. To make this happen it means we've overspent and have to raise a debt ceiling to borrow money.

Tell me what do you think happens to our tax dollars?

As for Ukraine as of November we've sent $68 Billion. And Congress was trying to approve another $37 Billion.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukrain...six-charts

From your own source:

Quote:Q3: What is in the military aid to Ukraine?

A3: Military aid in the three congressionally enacted packages consists of four elements.

Short-Term Military Support ($17 billion): This includes the transfer of weapons, both U.S. weapons and those purchased from allies, training of Ukrainian military personnel, and intelligence sharing. Much of this funding flows through the Ukrainian Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), which acts as a transfer account. Technically, the appropriations cover only the backfill equipment sent to Ukraine, not the equipment itself, but the two have been closely aligned.




Long-Term Military Support ($10.4 billion): This consists of money that Ukraine can use to buy new weapons, mostly from the United States but also elsewhere. The problem is that these need to be manufactured, so there is a long delay. As a result, this likely funds postwar rebuilding the Ukrainian military, not current operations. (Because the USIA funds both long term and short-term support, the split is an estimate.) Confusion sometimes arises because DOD announcements state that United States has “committed” certain amounts of military equipment to Ukraine― for example, a recent fact sheet stated that “in total, the United States has committed more than $18.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration.” This combines the short-term and long-term support.




U.S. Military Operations ($9.6 billion): In the spring, the United States sent about 18,000 troops to Europe to strengthen defenses and deter Russia. These deployments cost money above what was planned in the DOD budget.




DOD General Support ($1.2 billion): This covers a wide variety of activities, some only tangentially related to Ukraine, to prepare DOD for future conflicts.

Thanks for ignoring all of my questions, I'm sure you'll continue to think you're right

(01-18-2023 11:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:42 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:36 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:30 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  I'm really not sure how to respond to this. If you can be made to believe that the U.S. is just dropping cash on Ukraine, I really don't know how to find common ground with you. We have multiple hundreds of reply threads explaining exactly why you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, but you just keep chugging along with the Fox News misinformation.

Please.. Show me where I don't know what I'm talking about cause Hoss right now you're clearly talking out of your depth.

We overspent. But you can't say it's both sides, you point to the GOP. I'm saying it's both. We have sent BILLIONS. We're out of money.. We agreed to an omnibus spending bill worth TRILLIONS and now the US is out of money, but please tell me about 2017 and Two Santas over and over when I'm telling you it's not one or the other it's both..

How much money have we sent to Ukraine? Not estimates, not valuations, not equipment. How much money? How much of that money has come from taxes? How much money will be made by replenishing our outdated equipment with state of the art equipment? How much money will be saved in the future by eliminating Russia as a threat?

And now, finally, how much money is being sent to Ukraine versus how much was lost by Trump's tax cut with the support of then Republicans? Is one bad but not the other?

I'm interested to see how you deflect and discuss and whatabout your way to ignoring my point again

Where do you think the money the US operates off of comes from? Clearly you haven't a clue how our government works.

Let me type it slowly...

The US has a tax system. The American people pay taxes. The tax money is used to fund the government. When the government spends that, they borrow money from other countries.. To make this happen it means we've overspent and have to raise a debt ceiling to borrow money.

Tell me what do you think happens to our tax dollars?

As for Ukraine as of November we've sent $68 Billion. And Congress was trying to approve another $37 Billion.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukrain...six-charts

From your own source:

Quote:Q3: What is in the military aid to Ukraine?

A3: Military aid in the three congressionally enacted packages consists of four elements.

Short-Term Military Support ($17 billion): This includes the transfer of weapons, both U.S. weapons and those purchased from allies, training of Ukrainian military personnel, and intelligence sharing. Much of this funding flows through the Ukrainian Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), which acts as a transfer account. Technically, the appropriations cover only the backfill equipment sent to Ukraine, not the equipment itself, but the two have been closely aligned.




Long-Term Military Support ($10.4 billion): This consists of money that Ukraine can use to buy new weapons, mostly from the United States but also elsewhere. The problem is that these need to be manufactured, so there is a long delay. As a result, this likely funds postwar rebuilding the Ukrainian military, not current operations. (Because the USIA funds both long term and short-term support, the split is an estimate.) Confusion sometimes arises because DOD announcements state that United States has “committed” certain amounts of military equipment to Ukraine― for example, a recent fact sheet stated that “in total, the United States has committed more than $18.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration.” This combines the short-term and long-term support.




U.S. Military Operations ($9.6 billion): In the spring, the United States sent about 18,000 troops to Europe to strengthen defenses and deter Russia. These deployments cost money above what was planned in the DOD budget.




DOD General Support ($1.2 billion): This covers a wide variety of activities, some only tangentially related to Ukraine, to prepare DOD for future conflicts.

Thanks for ignoring all of my questions, I'm sure you'll continue to think you're right

Compared to you, I'm pretty sure I'm the smartest guy in the room...

I'm still waiting on receipts, because you ignored the other $30 billion already sent plus the other $37 billion requested.. What you've proven is you cherry pick and take things out of context.

But please tell me about two Santas and how things 6 years ago have made the problem worse today.

(01-18-2023 11:46 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:19 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:16 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 10:56 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Keep up.. This is two years into Biden's term and we ran out of money since we gave billions over to a foreign leader to fight a war... Keep up. This debt ceiling was raised under a total Dem banner and overspent.

To want some cuts and to reduce some spending can't be a bad thing, surely you can see that right?

You know, if the Republicans could be trusted to follow your out-of-touch-with-reality, rose-colored glasses interpretation of how they operate, sure that'd be just fine.

But as history tells us (because Republicans lack the motivation and creativity to be anything but predictable), Republicans want to take away Social Security and Medicare so they can pilfer the government from under your feet when they are in power again.

Look up the "Two Santa Clause Theory". Republicans spend spend spend while in power, funneling tax revenue to private businesses under the illusions of "jobs", and when they break the government from excessive spending, leaving the problem for Democrats to fix, they suddenly pivot and say "The deficit is the only thing that matters!" and quickly become obstructionist to any democrat program. Rinse, repeat, and the Republican base falls for it over and over again. This nonsense has been happening since the 1980's.

You can't blame Trump or a Republican led House for this. Trump left office in 2021, the Dems had control of the House and Senate until a couple weeks ago when the GOP took over. Take off your rose colored glasses and admit that this is on them and move forward. The whataboutism isn't working on me slick.

Who approved the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, and how much did the deficit increase as a direct result from it

Once again for the low iq economic morons:

This law caused receipts to the treasury to explode. Therefore it was not the cause of the deficit going up. Much of that was due to the stupid imbecile known as Obamacare which pushed much of the expenses out to when Obama would no longer be president so complete f*cknuts would be none the wiser.

No it didn't. The government reduced revenues by $135 Billion in FY2018 alone with no discernible impact on the economy.

(01-18-2023 11:52 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:42 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:36 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:32 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Please.. Show me where I don't know what I'm talking about cause Hoss right now you're clearly talking out of your depth.

We overspent. But you can't say it's both sides, you point to the GOP. I'm saying it's both. We have sent BILLIONS. We're out of money.. We agreed to an omnibus spending bill worth TRILLIONS and now the US is out of money, but please tell me about 2017 and Two Santas over and over when I'm telling you it's not one or the other it's both..

How much money have we sent to Ukraine? Not estimates, not valuations, not equipment. How much money? How much of that money has come from taxes? How much money will be made by replenishing our outdated equipment with state of the art equipment? How much money will be saved in the future by eliminating Russia as a threat?

And now, finally, how much money is being sent to Ukraine versus how much was lost by Trump's tax cut with the support of then Republicans? Is one bad but not the other?

I'm interested to see how you deflect and discuss and whatabout your way to ignoring my point again

Where do you think the money the US operates off of comes from? Clearly you haven't a clue how our government works.

Let me type it slowly...

The US has a tax system. The American people pay taxes. The tax money is used to fund the government. When the government spends that, they borrow money from other countries.. To make this happen it means we've overspent and have to raise a debt ceiling to borrow money.

Tell me what do you think happens to our tax dollars?

As for Ukraine as of November we've sent $68 Billion. And Congress was trying to approve another $37 Billion.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukrain...six-charts

From your own source:

Quote:Q3: What is in the military aid to Ukraine?

A3: Military aid in the three congressionally enacted packages consists of four elements.

Short-Term Military Support ($17 billion): This includes the transfer of weapons, both U.S. weapons and those purchased from allies, training of Ukrainian military personnel, and intelligence sharing. Much of this funding flows through the Ukrainian Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), which acts as a transfer account. Technically, the appropriations cover only the backfill equipment sent to Ukraine, not the equipment itself, but the two have been closely aligned.




Long-Term Military Support ($10.4 billion): This consists of money that Ukraine can use to buy new weapons, mostly from the United States but also elsewhere. The problem is that these need to be manufactured, so there is a long delay. As a result, this likely funds postwar rebuilding the Ukrainian military, not current operations. (Because the USIA funds both long term and short-term support, the split is an estimate.) Confusion sometimes arises because DOD announcements state that United States has “committed” certain amounts of military equipment to Ukraine― for example, a recent fact sheet stated that “in total, the United States has committed more than $18.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration.” This combines the short-term and long-term support.




U.S. Military Operations ($9.6 billion): In the spring, the United States sent about 18,000 troops to Europe to strengthen defenses and deter Russia. These deployments cost money above what was planned in the DOD budget.




DOD General Support ($1.2 billion): This covers a wide variety of activities, some only tangentially related to Ukraine, to prepare DOD for future conflicts.

Thanks for ignoring all of my questions, I'm sure you'll continue to think you're right

Compared to you, I'm pretty sure I'm the smartest guy in the room...

I'm still waiting on receipts, because you ignored the other $30 billion already sent plus the other $37 billion requested.. What you've proven is you cherry pick and take things out of context.

But please tell me about two Santas and how things 6 years ago have made the problem worse today.

I don't know how to explain to you in simpler terms that you fundamentally misunderstand the nature and role and history of the lend lease program, let alone the simple fact that equipment sent to Ukraine isn't the same as sending money straight from taxpayers pockets

(01-18-2023 11:58 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:52 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:42 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:36 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  How much money have we sent to Ukraine? Not estimates, not valuations, not equipment. How much money? How much of that money has come from taxes? How much money will be made by replenishing our outdated equipment with state of the art equipment? How much money will be saved in the future by eliminating Russia as a threat?

And now, finally, how much money is being sent to Ukraine versus how much was lost by Trump's tax cut with the support of then Republicans? Is one bad but not the other?

I'm interested to see how you deflect and discuss and whatabout your way to ignoring my point again

Where do you think the money the US operates off of comes from? Clearly you haven't a clue how our government works.

Let me type it slowly...

The US has a tax system. The American people pay taxes. The tax money is used to fund the government. When the government spends that, they borrow money from other countries.. To make this happen it means we've overspent and have to raise a debt ceiling to borrow money.

Tell me what do you think happens to our tax dollars?

As for Ukraine as of November we've sent $68 Billion. And Congress was trying to approve another $37 Billion.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukrain...six-charts

From your own source:

Quote:Q3: What is in the military aid to Ukraine?

A3: Military aid in the three congressionally enacted packages consists of four elements.

Short-Term Military Support ($17 billion): This includes the transfer of weapons, both U.S. weapons and those purchased from allies, training of Ukrainian military personnel, and intelligence sharing. Much of this funding flows through the Ukrainian Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), which acts as a transfer account. Technically, the appropriations cover only the backfill equipment sent to Ukraine, not the equipment itself, but the two have been closely aligned.




Long-Term Military Support ($10.4 billion): This consists of money that Ukraine can use to buy new weapons, mostly from the United States but also elsewhere. The problem is that these need to be manufactured, so there is a long delay. As a result, this likely funds postwar rebuilding the Ukrainian military, not current operations. (Because the USIA funds both long term and short-term support, the split is an estimate.) Confusion sometimes arises because DOD announcements state that United States has “committed” certain amounts of military equipment to Ukraine― for example, a recent fact sheet stated that “in total, the United States has committed more than $18.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration.” This combines the short-term and long-term support.




U.S. Military Operations ($9.6 billion): In the spring, the United States sent about 18,000 troops to Europe to strengthen defenses and deter Russia. These deployments cost money above what was planned in the DOD budget.




DOD General Support ($1.2 billion): This covers a wide variety of activities, some only tangentially related to Ukraine, to prepare DOD for future conflicts.

Thanks for ignoring all of my questions, I'm sure you'll continue to think you're right

Compared to you, I'm pretty sure I'm the smartest guy in the room...

I'm still waiting on receipts, because you ignored the other $30 billion already sent plus the other $37 billion requested.. What you've proven is you cherry pick and take things out of context.

But please tell me about two Santas and how things 6 years ago have made the problem worse today.

I don't know how to explain to you in simpler terms that you fundamentally misunderstand the nature and role and history of the lend lease program, let alone the simple fact that equipment sent to Ukraine isn't the same as sending money straight from taxpayers pockets

Actually it is. Imagine your neighbor has a kitchen fire and needs groceries. You send him what you have in your cabinets with no guarantees of repayment. You have to replenish your cabinets. You not only have already paid for what you gave the neighbor but also have to pay to replenish your food stocks.

(01-18-2023 11:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 10:56 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 10:53 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 10:50 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Last time there was a shutdown the things that closed were things that taxpayers needed. It's a shame we gave so much money to a foreign country and we're hitting the ceiling. This isn't totally to blame on the GOP led House, but there are some there that voted to spend spend spend.. Same with the Senate. Both at one point were Dem led that overspent.

The Republican led house sure did approve Trump's frivolous spending quickly. They'll do the same this time right?

Keep up.. This is two years into Biden's term and we ran out of money since we gave billions over to a foreign leader to fight a war... Keep up. This debt ceiling was raised under a total Dem banner and overspent.

To want some cuts and to reduce some spending can't be a bad thing, surely you can see that right?

You know, if the Republicans could be trusted to follow your out-of-touch-with-reality, rose-colored glasses interpretation of how they operate, sure that'd be just fine.

But as history tells us (because Republicans lack the motivation and creativity to be anything but predictable), Republicans want to take away Social Security and Medicare so they can pilfer the government from under your feet when they are in power again.

Look up the "Two Santa Clause Theory". Republicans spend spend spend while in power, funneling tax revenue to private businesses under the illusions of "jobs", and when they break the government from excessive spending, leaving the problem for Democrats to fix, they suddenly pivot and say "The deficit is the only thing that matters!" and quickly become obstructionist to any democrat program. Rinse, repeat, and the Republican base falls for it over and over again. This nonsense has been happening since the 1980's.

Stopped reading after you trotted out that unimaginative Democrat fictional troupe for the the 10,000th time this year. Please show where there is or ever was a Republican proposal to "take away" Social Security or Medicare from any citizens that were relying on those programs. Also--show us please where the Democrats have done anything to keep Social Security and Medicare solvent---even though it is a well known FACT both are programs that will cease being capable of financially meeting their promises to the American people in just few more years (essentially--both programs will meet the techinical definition of bankruptcy where an entity's revenue cannot meet its financial obligations). Instead---every Democrat proposal has suggested extending these safety net benefits to even more people---which would mean these key programs would reach insolvency even sooner.

So--rather than throw out ridiculous troupes----how about the two parties do something Nancy and Joe never bothered to even consider over the last 2 years---a real negotiation. Now that we know where each side stands---how about we put both sides into a room and make them go through the real compromise budget process---resulting in 12 separate responsible appropriations bills that are supposed to make up a normal Federal Budget. Heck---while they are in that room----how about they consider how they are going to keep Social Security and Medicare solvent---because without a solution to that problem----in a few years---an awful lot of people who count on those programs are going to be in big big trouble.

(01-18-2023 12:35 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:58 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:52 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:42 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Where do you think the money the US operates off of comes from? Clearly you haven't a clue how our government works.

Let me type it slowly...

The US has a tax system. The American people pay taxes. The tax money is used to fund the government. When the government spends that, they borrow money from other countries.. To make this happen it means we've overspent and have to raise a debt ceiling to borrow money.

Tell me what do you think happens to our tax dollars?

As for Ukraine as of November we've sent $68 Billion. And Congress was trying to approve another $37 Billion.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukrain...six-charts

From your own source:

Quote:Q3: What is in the military aid to Ukraine?

A3: Military aid in the three congressionally enacted packages consists of four elements.

Short-Term Military Support ($17 billion): This includes the transfer of weapons, both U.S. weapons and those purchased from allies, training of Ukrainian military personnel, and intelligence sharing. Much of this funding flows through the Ukrainian Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), which acts as a transfer account. Technically, the appropriations cover only the backfill equipment sent to Ukraine, not the equipment itself, but the two have been closely aligned.




Long-Term Military Support ($10.4 billion): This consists of money that Ukraine can use to buy new weapons, mostly from the United States but also elsewhere. The problem is that these need to be manufactured, so there is a long delay. As a result, this likely funds postwar rebuilding the Ukrainian military, not current operations. (Because the USIA funds both long term and short-term support, the split is an estimate.) Confusion sometimes arises because DOD announcements state that United States has “committed” certain amounts of military equipment to Ukraine― for example, a recent fact sheet stated that “in total, the United States has committed more than $18.5 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of the Biden Administration.” This combines the short-term and long-term support.




U.S. Military Operations ($9.6 billion): In the spring, the United States sent about 18,000 troops to Europe to strengthen defenses and deter Russia. These deployments cost money above what was planned in the DOD budget.




DOD General Support ($1.2 billion): This covers a wide variety of activities, some only tangentially related to Ukraine, to prepare DOD for future conflicts.

Thanks for ignoring all of my questions, I'm sure you'll continue to think you're right

Compared to you, I'm pretty sure I'm the smartest guy in the room...

I'm still waiting on receipts, because you ignored the other $30 billion already sent plus the other $37 billion requested.. What you've proven is you cherry pick and take things out of context.

But please tell me about two Santas and how things 6 years ago have made the problem worse today.

I don't know how to explain to you in simpler terms that you fundamentally misunderstand the nature and role and history of the lend lease program, let alone the simple fact that equipment sent to Ukraine isn't the same as sending money straight from taxpayers pockets

Actually it is. Imagine your neighbor has a kitchen fire and needs groceries. You send him what you have in your cabinets with no guarantees of repayment. You have to replenish your cabinets. You not only have already paid for what you gave the neighbor but also have to pay to replenish your food stocks.

let's also not forget at a higher price point in a fiat system ... again, it's the perpetual #wealthSiphon on it's path to @singularity-ism

talking fundamental 'growth economics' with a donk is as pointless as it gets ... honestly, I don't know why you guys even try...

globalism +muh blankey is all they know ... incentive + populism + nationalism be damned!

@OnlyMissedItByAdecade

Left - Shutdown is bad. Republicans are bad. Then they insure the shutdown happens so they can call the Republicans bad.

There will be a shutdown because the left needs one as a distraction and to keep their constituents riled up.

(01-18-2023 01:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  Left - Shutdown is bad. Republicans are bad. Then they insure the shutdown happens so they can call the Republicans bad.

There will be a shutdown because the left needs one as a distraction and to keep their constituents riled up.

Democrats had majorities in both houses until a few days ago. If they cared, they could have dealt with it then. But they don't care a bit about it.

(01-18-2023 12:57 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 12:35 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:58 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:52 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(01-18-2023 11:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  From your own source:


Thanks for ignoring all of my questions, I'm sure you'll continue to think you're right

Compared to you, I'm pretty sure I'm the smartest guy in the room...

I'm still waiting on receipts, because you ignored the other $30 billion already sent plus the other $37 billion requested.. What you've proven is you cherry pick and take things out of context.

But please tell me about two Santas and how things 6 years ago have made the problem worse today.

I don't know how to explain to you in simpler terms that you fundamentally misunderstand the nature and role and history of the lend lease program, let alone the simple fact that equipment sent to Ukraine isn't the same as sending money straight from taxpayers pockets

Actually it is. Imagine your neighbor has a kitchen fire and needs groceries. You send him what you have in your cabinets with no guarantees of repayment. You have to replenish your cabinets. You not only have already paid for what you gave the neighbor but also have to pay to replenish your food stocks.

let's also not forget at a higher price point in a fiat system ... again, it's the perpetual #wealthSiphon on it's path to @singularity-ism

talking fundamental 'growth economics' with a donk is as pointless as it gets ... honestly, I don't know why you guys even try...

globalism +muh blankey is all they know ... incentive + populism + nationalism be damned!

@OnlyMissedItByAdecade

Does seem to be an exercise in futility.