https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/s...g-football

"The very name of flag football might well summon up memories of gym class activities in the autumn — or, if you prefer, star-studded affairs in which athletes and celebrities compete to benefit charitable causes. It’s not difficult to see why flag football is popular in more informal competitions like these — playing it features some of the same strategy as tackle football, but without many of the collision risks that haunted the game in recent years.

This year’s Pro Bowl is also venturing into flag football territory, which seems like a wise move — fans get a fun exhibition and players don’t have to worry about risking their health for an all-star game...."

Its not bad for 12 and under. But for older people? Nah.

(01-16-2023 04:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/s...g-football
....
This year’s Pro Bowl is also venturing into flag football territory, which seems like a wise move — fans get a fun exhibition and players don’t have to worry about risking their health for an all-star game...."
....

We may well see American football move in time to flag or touch, with electronic sensors registering the 'tackle.'

I think we'd see it at the collegiate level first. SEC will be the last League to adopt it. We'll see it in the ACC and the PAC first. By late 2030s...

(01-17-2023 12:16 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I think we'd see it at the collegiate level first. SEC will be the last League to adopt it. We'll see it in the ACC and the PAC first. By late 2030s...

All of college football would need to shift together, I expect. As with any rules change.

I hope the thing that tips it isn't a particularly devastating concussion case. Better that it's simply newly empowered athletes working with health experts.

Two-hand touch rules...

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/3543...ke-zone-23
The electronic strike zone will be used in all 30 Class AAA parks in 2023, sources told ESPN, seemingly another significant step toward the implementation of the technology at the big league level in the near future.

The Automatic Balls and Strikes system, commonly referred to as ABS, will be deployed in two different ways. Half of the Class AAA games will be played with all of the calls determined by an electronic strike zone, and the other half will be played with an ABS challenge system similar to that used in professional tennis.

If baseball can be ruined, so can football.
Instant replay has replaced arguments. Can you imagine the Orioles without Earl Weaver kicking dirt?
With more passing and replays football games now take 4 hours instead of three. Changes in the game will come in the name of speeding up the game (people under 35 no longer have the attention span to watch a three and a half hour sporting event).

(01-17-2023 05:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/3543...ke-zone-23
The electronic strike zone will be used in all 30 Class AAA parks in 2023, sources told ESPN, seemingly another significant step toward the implementation of the technology at the big league level in the near future.

The Automatic Balls and Strikes system, commonly referred to as ABS, will be deployed in two different ways. Half of the Class AAA games will be played with all of the calls determined by an electronic strike zone, and the other half will be played with an ABS challenge system similar to that used in professional tennis.

If baseball can be ruined, so can football.
Instant replay has replaced arguments. Can you imagine the Orioles without Earl Weaver kicking dirt?
With more passing and replays football games now take 4 hours instead of three. Changes in the game will come in the name of speeding up the game (people under 35 no longer have the attention span to watch a three and a half hour sporting event).

So it's bad if games slow down and bad if they speed up. Got it. All the same, thanks for sharing this link!

I'm not as grumpy as you about the changes in store. I've met too many 20-somethings who walk with limps because football. But nostalgia can romanticize anything.

People pull and sprain things playing flag football. Accidental collisions do not have the protection of traditional gear.

This experiment will end this year if someone gets hurt.

(01-17-2023 01:34 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 12:16 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I think we'd see it at the collegiate level first. SEC will be the last League to adopt it. We'll see it in the ACC and the PAC first. By late 2030s...

All of college football would need to shift together, I expect. As with any rules change.

I hope the thing that tips it isn't a particularly devastating concussion case. Better that it's simply newly empowered athletes working with health experts.

I'm expecting a split... at some point. Maybe not for another 15-20 years though.

Want safer American football? That's why they'd go to flag. I can do it in three rule changes.

1. No molded plastic anywhere in the uniform (exceptions: bottom of shoe, protective "cup"). Helmets have become aggressive weapons, not protection.

2. Metal in uniform only for snaps, rivets, or simple "D-ring" belt buckles. Largest single piece of metal must be less than 0.25 ounces. (Yes, that means plastic zippers.)

3. Wrap-up-to-the-ground tackling like Aussie rules football and rugby. No more run through the guy and blow him up.

(01-17-2023 09:45 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  Want safer American football? That's why they'd go to flag. I can do it in three rule changes.

1. No molded plastic anywhere in the uniform (exceptions: bottom of shoe, protective "cup"). Helmets have become aggressive weapons, not protection.

2. Metal in uniform only for snaps, rivets, or simple "D-ring" belt buckles. Largest single piece of metal must be less than 0.25 ounces. (Yes, that means plastic zippers.)

3. Wrap-up-to-the-ground tackling like Aussie rules football and rugby. No more run through the guy and blow him up.

Helmets have got to go.

The big issue is that helmets are so central to the aesthetics of the game. A safer game will look a lot different than the current game.

Sort of like the photos of the old bare-knuckle boxes and their stance with both hands held low. It looks stupid, but was highly effective in an era where you fought 2-3x per week, couldn’t afford the risk of busting your hand on a head shot, and so everything was focused on body blows to the abdomen.

(01-17-2023 10:04 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 09:45 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  Want safer American football? That's why they'd go to flag. I can do it in three rule changes.

1. No molded plastic anywhere in the uniform (exceptions: bottom of shoe, protective "cup"). Helmets have become aggressive weapons, not protection.

2. Metal in uniform only for snaps, rivets, or simple "D-ring" belt buckles. Largest single piece of metal must be less than 0.25 ounces. (Yes, that means plastic zippers.)

3. Wrap-up-to-the-ground tackling like Aussie rules football and rugby. No more run through the guy and blow him up.

Helmets have got to go.

The big issue is that helmets are so central to the aesthetics of the game. A safer game will look a lot different than the current game.
....

If contact is reduced, it's not hard to imagine football headgear evolving more in the direction of lacrosse helmets. Lacrosse players wear protective gear, not weapons. (They carry the weapons.)

My goodness, it's amazing how people get all hysterical.

Flag football can both be increasingly popular and have absolutely no impact on the top levels of tackle football (and I say that as someone that won't be letting his son play tackle football in high school... as he actually got a concussion this year in FLAG football).

Look at the top 100 most watched TV shows of 2022:

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/01...en-ratings

82 of the 100 most watched TV shows last year were NFL games.

5 more were college football games.

This means 87 of the 100 most watched TV shows were football games.

Meanwhile, not a single scripted TV program was on that list.

Football is MORE powerful in our culture than ever. It is literally the ONE thing that Americans still almost universally watch (which wasn't the case even in 2010).

As a result, top athletes will continue to play football because that's the where the money is (and that's accelerating). Those top athletes are the ones that matter for the continued performance of NFL football and top level college football. Whether the more "casual players" stop playing football doesn't really matter at that front - the overall participation rate in football is less relevant than whether *top* athletes are still participating in football (and I don't see a slowdown on that front at all).

(And note that a misperception that I often see on this forum is that somehow the North will watch football less than people in the South because their kids aren't playing football. That's simply not true. When you look at the NFL, which dwarfs the viewership of college football, it's the *Northern* markets that dominate - Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, etc. High school football participation rates in those markets have pretty much zero correlation with the TV viewership of football in those same markets. We ALL want to WATCH football whether we'd let our kids play or not.)

(01-17-2023 10:50 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  My goodness, it's amazing how people get all hysterical.

Flag football can both be increasingly popular and have absolutely no impact on the top levels of tackle football (and I say that as someone that won't be letting his son play tackle football in high school... as he actually got a concussion this year in FLAG football).

Look at the top 100 most watched TV shows of 2022:

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/01...en-ratings

82 of the 100 most watched TV shows last year were NFL games.

5 more were college football games.

This means 87 of the 100 most watched TV shows were football games.

Meanwhile, not a single scripted TV program was on that list.

Football is MORE powerful in our culture than ever. It is literally the ONE thing that Americans still almost universally watch (which wasn't the case even in 2010).

As a result, top athletes will continue to play football because that's the where the money is (and that's accelerating). Those top athletes are the ones that matter for the continued performance of NFL football and top level college football. Whether the more "casual players" stop playing football doesn't really matter at that front - the overall participation rate in football is less relevant than whether *top* athletes are still participating in football (and I don't see a slowdown on that front at all).

(And note that a misperception that I often see on this forum is that somehow the North will watch football less than people in the South because their kids aren't playing football. That's simply not true. When you look at the NFL, which dwarfs the viewership of college football, it's the *Northern* markets that dominate - Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, etc. High school football participation rates in those markets have pretty much zero correlation with the TV viewership of football in those same markets. We ALL want to WATCH football whether we'd let our kids play or not.)

In Rome, people came out in large numbers to watch gladiators, even though none of them wanted to be gladiators or wanted their kids to be either. Football is our combat sport.

I love flag football, and I plan on tuning in to the Pro Bowl to see how this goes.

JK/NM. Too many sensitive people around these days. Deleted post.

(01-17-2023 11:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 10:50 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  My goodness, it's amazing how people get all hysterical.

Flag football can both be increasingly popular and have absolutely no impact on the top levels of tackle football (and I say that as someone that won't be letting his son play tackle football in high school... as he actually got a concussion this year in FLAG football).

Look at the top 100 most watched TV shows of 2022:

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/01...en-ratings

82 of the 100 most watched TV shows last year were NFL games.

5 more were college football games.

This means 87 of the 100 most watched TV shows were football games.

Meanwhile, not a single scripted TV program was on that list.

Football is MORE powerful in our culture than ever. It is literally the ONE thing that Americans still almost universally watch (which wasn't the case even in 2010).

As a result, top athletes will continue to play football because that's the where the money is (and that's accelerating). Those top athletes are the ones that matter for the continued performance of NFL football and top level college football. Whether the more "casual players" stop playing football doesn't really matter at that front - the overall participation rate in football is less relevant than whether *top* athletes are still participating in football (and I don't see a slowdown on that front at all).

(And note that a misperception that I often see on this forum is that somehow the North will watch football less than people in the South because their kids aren't playing football. That's simply not true. When you look at the NFL, which dwarfs the viewership of college football, it's the *Northern* markets that dominate - Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, etc. High school football participation rates in those markets have pretty much zero correlation with the TV viewership of football in those same markets. We ALL want to WATCH football whether we'd let our kids play or not.)

In Rome, people came out in large numbers to watch gladiators, even though none of them wanted to be gladiators or wanted their kids to be either. Football is our combat sport.

Exactly. Bread and circuses.

(01-17-2023 11:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I love flag football, and I plan on tuning in to the Pro Bowl to see how this goes.

I mean yeah - people were already complaining about the pro bowl and how no one was actually trying in the game (especially on D). They were basically playing Flag Football already, but while fully padded up.

I like that they're emphasizing the skills competition this time as well. Just let them show off, have fun, and enjoy their time. This is basically a vacation for them to show why they enjoy the game so much.

(01-17-2023 11:08 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 10:50 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  My goodness, it's amazing how people get all hysterical.

Flag football can both be increasingly popular and have absolutely no impact on the top levels of tackle football (and I say that as someone that won't be letting his son play tackle football in high school... as he actually got a concussion this year in FLAG football).

Look at the top 100 most watched TV shows of 2022:

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/01...en-ratings

82 of the 100 most watched TV shows last year were NFL games.

5 more were college football games.

This means 87 of the 100 most watched TV shows were football games.

Meanwhile, not a single scripted TV program was on that list.

Football is MORE powerful in our culture than ever. It is literally the ONE thing that Americans still almost universally watch (which wasn't the case even in 2010).

As a result, top athletes will continue to play football because that's the where the money is (and that's accelerating). Those top athletes are the ones that matter for the continued performance of NFL football and top level college football. Whether the more "casual players" stop playing football doesn't really matter at that front - the overall participation rate in football is less relevant than whether *top* athletes are still participating in football (and I don't see a slowdown on that front at all).

(And note that a misperception that I often see on this forum is that somehow the North will watch football less than people in the South because their kids aren't playing football. That's simply not true. When you look at the NFL, which dwarfs the viewership of college football, it's the *Northern* markets that dominate - Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, etc. High school football participation rates in those markets have pretty much zero correlation with the TV viewership of football in those same markets. We ALL want to WATCH football whether we'd let our kids play or not.)

In Rome, people came out in large numbers to watch gladiators, even though none of them wanted to be gladiators or wanted their kids to be either. Football is our combat sport.

Did Gladiators get paid? So, my main point is, is there a difference between gladiators and football players? Were gladiators forced to play??

I’m not saying you’re wrong. In fact, your (and others’) answers might be interesting. I for one think the word “forced” can mean things like not in a direct, but rather systemic, way. And even “systemic” may not be the intention, yet we don’t try and amend the system because we have been told not to.

(01-17-2023 01:34 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(01-17-2023 12:16 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  I think we'd see it at the collegiate level first. SEC will be the last League to adopt it. We'll see it in the ACC and the PAC first. By late 2030s...

All of college football would need to shift together, I expect. As with any rules change.

I hope the thing that tips it isn't a particularly devastating concussion case. Better that it's simply newly empowered athletes working with health experts.

Football is Football bc it's our modern answer to Gladiators. If you take away the physical aspect of the game, it will wither on the vine and be replaced by Rugby. People who are afraid of contact already have a sport to watch, it's called Soccer.