Rice lost 2 of their first 3 and looked horrible on the road in the losses and many folks here were losing their $h!t. Then Rice won 10 of 11 with only a narrow loss to nationally-ranked UT and people were feeling all giddy about the team. Now they lost 2 close games to teams in the same general tier of KenPom rankings (MTSU 132, LaTech 142, Rice 180 after the recent games but surely more closely ranked before those games).

Yes, these losses were disappointing. It was tough to watch defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. But progress is not usually a straight line. The team is still 11-5 overall, 2-3 in CUSA. You think more people would have learned to not overreact to a couple rough results in a 30ish game season. I'm not being pollyanna here, but I think there is a bit of overreacting going on after 2 tough losses. I mean, in Rice's last 13 straight games, they were in the game until the final minute and won 10 of those games. Maybe just take a few deep breaths and see how the team responds in the next few games before you all bust out the torches, pitchforks, tar, and feathers?

FTR, my comment wasn't intended to support the idea that the team was bad or anything else... I was just noting that even good teams can be described as 'dismal' if they can't get an open look or even hand the ball off. That wasn't a description of 'dismal'... but a comment from someone 'complaining' about the 'dismal' description.

(01-12-2023 04:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  FTR, my comment wasn't intended to support the idea that the team was bad or anything else... I was just noting that even good teams can be described as 'dismal' if they can't get an open look or even hand the ball off. That wasn't a description of 'dismal'... but a comment from someone 'complaining' about the 'dismal' description.

Yes, Bones, and my point was you have no basis for calling a team's effort "dismal" if you didn't attend or even watch the game, but only responded with negativity after reading the game thread.

BTW, my comment about not getting open looks was NOT in response to the "dismal" post, but rather a different post from someone who said that Oliveri appeared to have no confidence in his outside shot last night.

(01-12-2023 04:02 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Rice lost 2 of their first 3 and looked horrible on the road in the losses and many folks here were losing their $h!t. Then Rice won 10 of 11 with only a narrow loss to nationally-ranked UT and people were feeling all giddy about the team. Now they lost 2 close games to teams in the same general tier of KenPom rankings (MTSU 132, LaTech 142, Rice 180 after the recent games but surely more closely ranked before those games).

Yes, these losses were disappointing. It was tough to watch defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. But progress is not usually a straight line. The team is still 11-5 overall, 2-3 in CUSA. You think more people would have learned to not overreact to a couple rough results in a 30ish game season. I'm not being pollyanna here, but I think there is a bit of overreacting going on after 2 tough losses. I mean, in Rice's last 13 straight games, they were in the game until the final minute and won 10 of those games. Maybe just take a few deep breaths and see how the team responds in the next few games before you all bust out the torches, pitchforks, tar, and feathers?

agree-these last two were just heartbreaking.

Honestly, I just enjoy crapping on Rice athletics. It makes me feel good. That's what a school gets when they give their fans nothing but disappointment over a very long period of time.

While some of it may be uncalled for in basketball, it's completely warranted in football, but I don't want to change the focus here. It's a basketball thread.

(01-12-2023 04:46 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-12-2023 04:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  FTR, my comment wasn't intended to support the idea that the team was bad or anything else... I was just noting that even good teams can be described as 'dismal' if they can't get an open look or even hand the ball off. That wasn't a description of 'dismal'... but a comment from someone 'complaining' about the 'dismal' description.

Yes, Bones, and my point was you have no basis for calling a team's effort "dismal" if you didn't attend or even watch the game, but only responded with negativity after reading the game thread.

BTW, my comment about not getting open looks was NOT in response to the "dismal" post, but rather a different post from someone who said that Oliveri appeared to have no confidence in his outside shot last night.

Walt... I agreed with you on the general level of negativity... I am sometimes guilty of it myself... and although your comment may not have been directed at that response, it was certainly written within the same period of time and very much spoke to the issue that was likely reflected in the game thread.

I could look at a football box score and see 9 punts, 3 TOs, 3 first downs and 78 yards total offense and wouldn't have to have watched to know that was dismal. If we have IDK, 9 points, 7 TOs and give up 30 in a quarter of basketball, I think 'dismal' is a reasonable description of that quarter. I just made up those numbers... may not be realistic at all.

I suppose my point is that it is in some ways 'fair' to fault someone for their comments about how people feel or act, or what their goals are if they were not there and don't know the people etc.... and that is what you are generally doing.... but I don't think you need to be present to make SOME general comments about the quality of play based on results.

I just found it ironic (may not be the right word...) that you were chastising him for saying they played poorly, while at the same time describing some pretty poor play.

(01-13-2023 10:11 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(01-12-2023 04:46 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(01-12-2023 04:39 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  FTR, my comment wasn't intended to support the idea that the team was bad or anything else... I was just noting that even good teams can be described as 'dismal' if they can't get an open look or even hand the ball off. That wasn't a description of 'dismal'... but a comment from someone 'complaining' about the 'dismal' description.

Yes, Bones, and my point was you have no basis for calling a team's effort "dismal" if you didn't attend or even watch the game, but only responded with negativity after reading the game thread.

BTW, my comment about not getting open looks was NOT in response to the "dismal" post, but rather a different post from someone who said that Oliveri appeared to have no confidence in his outside shot last night.

Walt... I agreed with you on the general level of negativity... I am sometimes guilty of it myself... and although your comment may not have been directed at that response, it was certainly written within the same period of time and very much spoke to the issue that was likely reflected in the game thread.

I could look at a football box score and see 9 punts, 3 TOs, 3 first downs and 78 yards total offense and wouldn't have to have watched to know that was dismal. If we have IDK, 9 points, 7 TOs and give up 30 in a quarter of basketball, I think 'dismal' is a reasonable description of that quarter. I just made up those numbers... may not be realistic at all.

I suppose my point is that it is in some ways 'fair' to fault someone for their comments about how people feel or act, or what their goals are if they were not there and don't know the people etc.... and that is what you are generally doing.... but I don't think you need to be present to make SOME general comments about the quality of play based on results.

I just found it ironic (may not be the right word...) that you were chastising him for saying they played poorly, while at the same time describing some pretty poor play.

Based on results? We lost by 3 points and just missed tying the game at the buzzer with a 3-point shot banging off the rim after we stole the inbound pass. Thursday night's game was anything but a "dismal" performance. Disappointing, yes, because we had the double digit half time lead. However, that lead was all but erased at the halfway point of the second half. We could have folded at that point, but we didn't.

Also, my second post was not describing "pretty poor play" on our part, but rather VERY good play (tight defense) on MTSU's part. There's a difference. Let's not forget that this same MTSU team beat us by over 30 points last month.

(01-13-2023 10:21 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Based on results? We lost by 3 points and just missed tying the game at the buzzer with a 3-point shot banging off the rim after we stole the inbound pass. Thursday night's game was anything but a "dismal" performance. Disappointing, yes, because we had the double digit half time lead. However, that lead was all but erased at the halfway point of the second half. We could have folded at that point, but we didn't.

Also, my second post was not describing "pretty poor play" on our part, but rather VERY good play (tight defense) on MTSU's part. There's a difference. Let's not forget that this same MTSU team beat us by over 30 points last month.

I haven't made any comments about the game... I wasn't there... I didn't even read the box score. I merely noted your comments... and found it a bit ironic.

What you said above is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DESCRIPTION than what you previously wrote... where you said... about the same game...

Quote:In fairness, there was NO outside shot to take. MTSU totally took away the perimeter game, giving no one any space to shoot. Their perimeter D was so tight that on many occassions Max had a difficult time simply handing the ball off to one of the guards.

Yes, you spoke about the defense, but if we can't even hand the ball off or get open for ANY outside shot, then I don't think 'pretty poor play' on our part is an unreasonable description.... just the other side of the same coin. The team forcing 9 punts also likely played great defense. I suspect some MTSU fans were talking about how dismal their performance was, being down by 10+ to a team they beat by 30 a month ago... and needing to survive a buzzer beater to win in the end.

My entire point was and still is that much can be gained just by looking at a box score. Had I done so, I probably would have seen just what you described above.... or combining the two... great overall effort, doomed by a dismal stretch where we couldn't even hand the ball off.

I think when I used the adjective 'dismal,' it was more a prognosis of Rice's chances of ever doing anything meaningful in basketball. The proper term for losing two home games in a row, after two big road wins and an 11-3 start is 'deflating.'

I'm exhausted with men's athletics at Rice. Every damn year I hope that 'this is the year,' but it's not. I'm sick of investing energy, hope, and money for nothing. In the end I'm exhausted. I'm sick of the losing. Something is very wrong with a school that can't at least get a basketball team into the NCAA Tournament once every fifteen years. Something is wrong when football has seven straight losing seasons. I can't handle it. Who here can really blame me and Numbers for being sick of it all?

Rice deserves it.

(01-12-2023 04:02 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Rice lost 2 of their first 3 and looked horrible on the road in the losses and many folks here were losing their $h!t. Then Rice won 10 of 11 with only a narrow loss to nationally-ranked UT and people were feeling all giddy about the team. Now they lost 2 close games to teams in the same general tier of KenPom rankings (MTSU 132, LaTech 142, Rice 180 after the recent games but surely more closely ranked before those games).

Yes, these losses were disappointing. It was tough to watch defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. But progress is not usually a straight line. The team is still 11-5 overall, 2-3 in CUSA. You think more people would have learned to not overreact to a couple rough results in a 30ish game season. I'm not being pollyanna here, but I think there is a bit of overreacting going on after 2 tough losses. I mean, in Rice's last 13 straight games, they were in the game until the final minute and won 10 of those games. Maybe just take a few deep breaths and see how the team responds in the next few games before you all bust out the torches, pitchforks, tar, and feathers?

well said

You knew Middle would start making some shots. And the way the refs called the entire game, I'm shocked they didn't kill us by 35 again. Two of those three refs (sorry don't remember their names - just their faces) are as bad as Lynn Shortnacy in his heyday. Even when we wanted to foul at the end of the game, the older guy didn't want to make a call.

But that doesn't excuse the fact that we were out-coached in the 2nd half (again, our substitution pattern was brutal), and that some of our players were very much intimidated by Middle's physical style of play.

Small complaint, but with the way the game transpired in the 2nd half, there's no way Huseinovic should have finished with only 14 minutes. His mere presence on the perimeter gives us better spacing because every scouting report on him in the conference is a variant of "do not give him an inch of separation." And on a team with Evee and Olivari, who are both extremely confident, Huseinovic looks by far the guy who is least scared to pull the trigger (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse). Do we magically score more points in the 2nd half if he gets more minutes? Not necessarily. But Pera should have recognized after the first 5 or 10 minutes of the second half that an adjustment was needed. I get that our bench hasn't been overly impressive this year. But when you're in the midst of blowing a 15-point lead, there's no harm in a little experimentation. Maybe somebody like Huseinovic, Lieppert, or Akuchie gives you a little energy boost.

We’re still going to win the conference tourney in Frisco and the auto ncaa bid

I am afraid this team has a very low ceiling until it learns how to play defense. And it's looking like Pera is not the guy to teach them that. He needs to hire an assistant with strong defense and recruiting (because you always need recruiting) chops.