(01-13-2023 02:45 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:33 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:28 PM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 12:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  Since the state did this all for the University, are we going to get to use the stadium rent-free now?

Since the state did all this for Nashville, are we going to get to use the new Titan's stadium for free now?

As Mama says, stupid is as stupid does.

Couldn't agree more. Still stupid and paying the city to play in the The Liberty Bowl after 50 years of that failing to help move us up the conference ladder.

We have a sweet heart deal when it comes to the stadium rental. If we could average over 40,000-45,000 a game it was be close to rent free.

Wish some of you could understand the cost of operating a stadium. The city loses over a million dollars every year operating the stadium but makes it back on taxes collected due to the economic impact of events held at stadium.

Considering the average attendances then not even the sweetheart deal is enough most of the time. And why shoot for "close to rent free" if it can be avoided completely?

I think most if not all posting here know at least the basics of operating a stadium. Some are just focused on how the school is impacted.

(01-13-2023 03:20 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:13 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:02 PM)msu35 Wrote:  Proof?

We are in the American Athletic Conference.

Do you need more proof?

Yes. Proof that lack of an OCS is the reason why [we aren't in a P5 conference] and has been for decades, as you stated. You also never addressed the eight additional disputed points.

We once had a bigger, better stadium than Tennessee, Ole Miss, Mississippi, and a number of other SEC schools. They moved their games to Memphis to use our stadium.

When their on-campus stadiums grew to the size of Crump Stadium, we built the Liberty Bowl to keep them coming here. Their stadiums grew to the size of the Liberty Bowl. We expanded the Liberty Bowl to seal the deal with the NFL. Once again, we had the biggest, best stadium in the South. The stadium aged. We put in Tiger Lane. We put in bigger scoreboards - two - maybe three times. New lights. New sound system. Renovated locker rooms.

We did all that and, never seemed to get that big break on a conference. 50 years of a half full stadium. Giving away tickets due to low demand. Terrible appearance on TV and to visiting conference management.

But, this time, this time it will be different. Some new stands. A halo. Food trucks. A band outside the stadium, and by God we're going to the big time. It can't miss. All you guys must have grown up Cubs fans.

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  We once had a bigger, better stadium than Tennessee, Ole Miss, Mississippi, and a number of other SEC schools. They moved their games to Memphis to use our stadium.

When their on-campus stadiums grew to the size of Crump Stadium, we built the Liberty Bowl to keep them coming here. Their stadiums grew to the size of the Liberty Bowl. We expanded the Liberty Bowl to seal the deal with the NFL. Once again, we had the biggest, best stadium in the South. The stadium aged. We put in Tiger Lane. We put in bigger scoreboards - two - maybe three times. New lights. New sound system. Renovated locker rooms.

We did all that and, never seemed to get that big break on a conference. 50 years of a half full stadium. Giving away tickets due to low demand. Terrible appearance on TV and to visiting conference management.

But, this time, this time it will be different. Some new stands. A halo. Food trucks. A band outside the stadium, and by God we're going to the big time. It can't miss. All you guys must have grown up Cubs fans.

None of that proves much of anything. Correlation does not imply causation. As far as empty stadiums go, Houston has a hard time getting anyone to show up to games. Again they've been lucky to average 25K a game. Tell me again how that kept them out of the P5.

(01-13-2023 03:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  We once had a bigger, better stadium than Tennessee, Ole Miss, Mississippi, and a number of other SEC schools. They moved their games to Memphis to use our stadium.

When their on-campus stadiums grew to the size of Crump Stadium, we built the Liberty Bowl to keep them coming here. Their stadiums grew to the size of the Liberty Bowl. We expanded the Liberty Bowl to seal the deal with the NFL. Once again, we had the biggest, best stadium in the South. The stadium aged. We put in Tiger Lane. We put in bigger scoreboards - two - maybe three times. New lights. New sound system. Renovated locker rooms.

We did all that and, never seemed to get that big break on a conference. 50 years of a half full stadium. Giving away tickets due to low demand. Terrible appearance on TV and to visiting conference management.

But, this time, this time it will be different. Some new stands. A halo. Food trucks. A band outside the stadium, and by God we're going to the big time. It can't miss. All you guys must have grown up Cubs fans.

None of that proves much of anything. Correlation does not imply causation. As far as empty stadiums go, Houston has a hard time getting anyone to show up to games. Again they've been lucky to average 25K a game. Tell me again how that kept them out of the P5.

We barely had a bigger crowd than Houston this year. 26,000 average to their 25,000.

At 40,000 seats, their 2022 average of 25,000 butts leaves Houston with 15,000 empty seats. 37% empty. With 58,000 seats and this year's average of 26,000 per game, we are leaving 32,000 empty seats. 45% empty. Over twice as many empty seats as Houston. It's not apples to apples there. Our situation LOOKS much worse even though the attendance numbers are similar.

And by the way, the XFL team PAYS HOUSTON to use their stadium. They have five games scheduled this spring.

(01-13-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  We once had a bigger, better stadium than Tennessee, Ole Miss, Mississippi, and a number of other SEC schools. They moved their games to Memphis to use our stadium.

When their on-campus stadiums grew to the size of Crump Stadium, we built the Liberty Bowl to keep them coming here. Their stadiums grew to the size of the Liberty Bowl. We expanded the Liberty Bowl to seal the deal with the NFL. Once again, we had the biggest, best stadium in the South. The stadium aged. We put in Tiger Lane. We put in bigger scoreboards - two - maybe three times. New lights. New sound system. Renovated locker rooms.

We did all that and, never seemed to get that big break on a conference. 50 years of a half full stadium. Giving away tickets due to low demand. Terrible appearance on TV and to visiting conference management.

But, this time, this time it will be different. Some new stands. A halo. Food trucks. A band outside the stadium, and by God we're going to the big time. It can't miss. All you guys must have grown up Cubs fans.

None of that proves much of anything. Correlation does not imply causation. As far as empty stadiums go, Houston has a hard time getting anyone to show up to games. Again they've been lucky to average 25K a game. Tell me again how that kept them out of the P5.

We barely had a bigger crowd than Houston this year. 26,000 average to their 25,000.

At 40,000 seats, their 2022 average of 25,000 butts leaves Houston with 15,000 empty seats. With 58,000 seats and this year's average of 26,000 per game, we are leaving 32,000 empty seats. Over twice as many empty seats as Houston. It's not apples to apples there. Our situation LOOKS much worse even though the attendance numbers are similar.

And by the way, the XFL team PAYS HOUSTON to use their stadium. They have five games scheduled this spring.

I disagree. They both would look empty. You're picking nits at this stage. Regarding the XFL paying Houston, if the university were to build the OCS, there is no guarantee the Showboats would elect to play there. Also, how long do you think these "alternative" football leagues will last? The track record isn't good and I wouldn't factor them to be a long-term revenue source.

I like how you're picking and choosing what you think you can argue around when you still haven't addressed the bulk of the points you made in your original post. You also still have shown zero proof that the lack of an OCS has prevented the Tigers from migrating to a P5 conference.

(01-13-2023 04:30 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  We once had a bigger, better stadium than Tennessee, Ole Miss, Mississippi, and a number of other SEC schools. They moved their games to Memphis to use our stadium.

When their on-campus stadiums grew to the size of Crump Stadium, we built the Liberty Bowl to keep them coming here. Their stadiums grew to the size of the Liberty Bowl. We expanded the Liberty Bowl to seal the deal with the NFL. Once again, we had the biggest, best stadium in the South. The stadium aged. We put in Tiger Lane. We put in bigger scoreboards - two - maybe three times. New lights. New sound system. Renovated locker rooms.

We did all that and, never seemed to get that big break on a conference. 50 years of a half full stadium. Giving away tickets due to low demand. Terrible appearance on TV and to visiting conference management.

But, this time, this time it will be different. Some new stands. A halo. Food trucks. A band outside the stadium, and by God we're going to the big time. It can't miss. All you guys must have grown up Cubs fans.

None of that proves much of anything. Correlation does not imply causation. As far as empty stadiums go, Houston has a hard time getting anyone to show up to games. Again they've been lucky to average 25K a game. Tell me again how that kept them out of the P5.

We barely had a bigger crowd than Houston this year. 26,000 average to their 25,000.

At 40,000 seats, their 2022 average of 25,000 butts leaves Houston with 15,000 empty seats. With 58,000 seats and this year's average of 26,000 per game, we are leaving 32,000 empty seats. Over twice as many empty seats as Houston. It's not apples to apples there. Our situation LOOKS much worse even though the attendance numbers are similar.

And by the way, the XFL team PAYS HOUSTON to use their stadium. They have five games scheduled this spring.

I disagree. They both would look empty. You're picking nits at this stage. Regarding the XFL paying Houston, if the university were to build the OCS, there is no guarantee the Showboats would elect to play there. Also, how long do you think these "alternative" football leagues will last? The track record isn't good and I wouldn't factor them to be a long-term revenue source.

I like how you're picking and choosing what you think you can argue around when you still haven't addressed the bulk of the points you made in your original post. You also still have shown zero proof that the lack of an OCS has prevented the Tigers from migrating to a P5 conference.

I have shown that renovating the Liberty Bowl does not get the Tigers into a P5 conference. I think that is quite clear from 50 years of history. Our state government has chosen to upgrade the Liberty Bowl to "help" the university get into a P5 conference. There is zero evidence that it will help. There is 50 years of evidence it will not.

(01-13-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  We once had a bigger, better stadium than Tennessee, Ole Miss, Mississippi, and a number of other SEC schools. They moved their games to Memphis to use our stadium.

When their on-campus stadiums grew to the size of Crump Stadium, we built the Liberty Bowl to keep them coming here. Their stadiums grew to the size of the Liberty Bowl. We expanded the Liberty Bowl to seal the deal with the NFL. Once again, we had the biggest, best stadium in the South. The stadium aged. We put in Tiger Lane. We put in bigger scoreboards - two - maybe three times. New lights. New sound system. Renovated locker rooms.

We did all that and, never seemed to get that big break on a conference. 50 years of a half full stadium. Giving away tickets due to low demand. Terrible appearance on TV and to visiting conference management.

But, this time, this time it will be different. Some new stands. A halo. Food trucks. A band outside the stadium, and by God we're going to the big time. It can't miss. All you guys must have grown up Cubs fans.

None of that proves much of anything. Correlation does not imply causation. As far as empty stadiums go, Houston has a hard time getting anyone to show up to games. Again they've been lucky to average 25K a game. Tell me again how that kept them out of the P5.

We barely had a bigger crowd than Houston this year. 26,000 average to their 25,000.

At 40,000 seats, their 2022 average of 25,000 butts leaves Houston with 15,000 empty seats. 37% empty. With 58,000 seats and this year's average of 26,000 per game, we are leaving 32,000 empty seats. 45% empty. Over twice as many empty seats as Houston. It's not apples to apples there. Our situation LOOKS much worse even though the attendance numbers are similar.

And by the way, the XFL team PAYS HOUSTON to use their stadium. They have five games scheduled this spring.

And by the way, the USFL Houston team PAYS MEMPHIS to use their stadium. They have five games scheduled this spring.

(01-13-2023 04:36 PM)Claw Wrote:  I have shown that renovating the Liberty Bowl does not get the Tigers into a P5 conference. I think that is quite clear from 50 years of history. Our state government has chosen to upgrade the Liberty Bowl to "help" the university get into a P5 conference. There is zero evidence that it will help. There is 50 years of evidence it will not.

Not really. I can show you that playing the lottery doesn't result in winning money, but that doesn't mean a person can't win. At this point it seems clear that this is almost a religious debate with you. There is no need for us to go around and around.

You have your opinion and that's okay. To say it proves anything is silly. We are not getting an OCS in the near future, and it is my opinion that it won't prevent us from upgrading to a P5 conference. If we do well in basketball and football, it is only a matter of time.

(01-13-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  We once had a bigger, better stadium than Tennessee, Ole Miss, Mississippi, and a number of other SEC schools. They moved their games to Memphis to use our stadium.

When their on-campus stadiums grew to the size of Crump Stadium, we built the Liberty Bowl to keep them coming here. Their stadiums grew to the size of the Liberty Bowl. We expanded the Liberty Bowl to seal the deal with the NFL. Once again, we had the biggest, best stadium in the South. The stadium aged. We put in Tiger Lane. We put in bigger scoreboards - two - maybe three times. New lights. New sound system. Renovated locker rooms.

We did all that and, never seemed to get that big break on a conference. 50 years of a half full stadium. Giving away tickets due to low demand. Terrible appearance on TV and to visiting conference management.

But, this time, this time it will be different. Some new stands. A halo. Food trucks. A band outside the stadium, and by God we're going to the big time. It can't miss. All you guys must have grown up Cubs fans.

None of that proves much of anything. Correlation does not imply causation. As far as empty stadiums go, Houston has a hard time getting anyone to show up to games. Again they've been lucky to average 25K a game. Tell me again how that kept them out of the P5.

We barely had a bigger crowd than Houston this year. 26,000 average to their 25,000.

At 40,000 seats, their 2022 average of 25,000 butts leaves Houston with 15,000 empty seats. 37% empty. With 58,000 seats and this year's average of 26,000 per game, we are leaving 32,000 empty seats. 45% empty. Over twice as many empty seats as Houston. It's not apples to apples there. Our situation LOOKS much worse even though the attendance numbers are similar.

And by the way, the XFL team PAYS HOUSTON to use their stadium. They have five games scheduled this spring.

Houston has never come close to averaging 25,000 actual attendance. Maybe 16,000 - 18,000 tops.

(01-13-2023 04:53 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 04:23 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Claw Wrote:  We once had a bigger, better stadium than Tennessee, Ole Miss, Mississippi, and a number of other SEC schools. They moved their games to Memphis to use our stadium.

When their on-campus stadiums grew to the size of Crump Stadium, we built the Liberty Bowl to keep them coming here. Their stadiums grew to the size of the Liberty Bowl. We expanded the Liberty Bowl to seal the deal with the NFL. Once again, we had the biggest, best stadium in the South. The stadium aged. We put in Tiger Lane. We put in bigger scoreboards - two - maybe three times. New lights. New sound system. Renovated locker rooms.

We did all that and, never seemed to get that big break on a conference. 50 years of a half full stadium. Giving away tickets due to low demand. Terrible appearance on TV and to visiting conference management.

But, this time, this time it will be different. Some new stands. A halo. Food trucks. A band outside the stadium, and by God we're going to the big time. It can't miss. All you guys must have grown up Cubs fans.

None of that proves much of anything. Correlation does not imply causation. As far as empty stadiums go, Houston has a hard time getting anyone to show up to games. Again they've been lucky to average 25K a game. Tell me again how that kept them out of the P5.

We barely had a bigger crowd than Houston this year. 26,000 average to their 25,000.

At 40,000 seats, their 2022 average of 25,000 butts leaves Houston with 15,000 empty seats. 37% empty. With 58,000 seats and this year's average of 26,000 per game, we are leaving 32,000 empty seats. 45% empty. Over twice as many empty seats as Houston. It's not apples to apples there. Our situation LOOKS much worse even though the attendance numbers are similar.

And by the way, the XFL team PAYS HOUSTON to use their stadium. They have five games scheduled this spring.

Houston has never come close to averaging 25,000 actual attendance. Maybe 16,000 - 18,000 tops.

Both calculations used the reported attendance. Have to go with something. I'm sure our numbers aren't padded.

(01-13-2023 04:43 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 04:36 PM)Claw Wrote:  I have shown that renovating the Liberty Bowl does not get the Tigers into a P5 conference. I think that is quite clear from 50 years of history. Our state government has chosen to upgrade the Liberty Bowl to "help" the university get into a P5 conference. There is zero evidence that it will help. There is 50 years of evidence it will not.

Not really. I can show you that playing the lottery doesn't result in winning money, but that doesn't mean a person can't win. At this point it seems clear that this is almost a religious debate with you. There is no need for us to go around and around.

You have your opinion and that's okay. To say it proves anything is silly. We are not getting an OCS in the near future, and it is my opinion that it won't prevent us from upgrading to a P5 conference. If we do well in basketball and football, it is only a matter of time.

I am jaded and opinionated after watching our football program fail to advance for 40 years. I'll admit that. I don't think anything will change unless we change what we are doing. I don't see that. I don't see it in the stadium or in any other aspect of the program either. I would love to be wrong. I would. I love my school.

(01-13-2023 04:57 PM)Claw Wrote:  I love my school.

We both love the Tigers and that's what's important at the end of the day.

(01-13-2023 05:03 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 04:57 PM)Claw Wrote:  I love my school.

We both love the Tigers and that's what's important at the end of the day.

Yes. I think I will just go play with my DeAngelo car now.

(01-13-2023 04:57 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 04:43 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 04:36 PM)Claw Wrote:  I have shown that renovating the Liberty Bowl does not get the Tigers into a P5 conference. I think that is quite clear from 50 years of history. Our state government has chosen to upgrade the Liberty Bowl to "help" the university get into a P5 conference. There is zero evidence that it will help. There is 50 years of evidence it will not.

Not really. I can show you that playing the lottery doesn't result in winning money, but that doesn't mean a person can't win. At this point it seems clear that this is almost a religious debate with you. There is no need for us to go around and around.

You have your opinion and that's okay. To say it proves anything is silly. We are not getting an OCS in the near future, and it is my opinion that it won't prevent us from upgrading to a P5 conference. If we do well in basketball and football, it is only a matter of time.

I am jaded and opinionated after watching our football program fail to advance for 40 years. I'll admit that. I don't think anything will change unless we change what we are doing. I don't see that. I don't see it in the stadium or in any other aspect of the program either. I would love to be wrong. I would. I love my school.

Agree. I've been watching my Tigers since I was 6 yrs old at Crump Stadium as a Tiger Cub. And I've been watching administration after administration defer or look to the city for it's revenue sports facilities for decades, even though the SEC, BE & B12 have all pointed to facility needs as a major shortcoming. In the 60s Cincy & Louisville were behind us with FSU, VaTech & South Carolina our peers. But we continue to allow the city to determine our future. Ironically at every step the decisions seem logical, certainly the easy path but we are arguably further behind now than we were in the 60s. Too bad each succeeding generation thinks this time it's different many think (go back and look at the accolades for the LB in '65) but it's not. It's doing the same thing over again (our university tying it's future to that of the city) & expecting different results.

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 02:45 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:33 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:28 PM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 12:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  Since the state did this all for the University, are we going to get to use the stadium rent-free now?

Since the state did all this for Nashville, are we going to get to use the new Titan's stadium for free now?

As Mama says, stupid is as stupid does.

Couldn't agree more. Still stupid and paying the city to play in the The Liberty Bowl after 50 years of that failing to help move us up the conference ladder.

We have a sweet heart deal when it comes to the stadium rental. If we could average over 40,000-45,000 a game it was be close to rent free.

Wish some of you could understand the cost of operating a stadium. The city loses over a million dollars every year operating the stadium but makes it back on taxes collected due to the economic impact of events held at stadium.

Considering the average attendances then not even the sweetheart deal is enough most of the time. And why shoot for "close to rent free" if it can be avoided completely?

I think most if not all posting here know at least the basics of operating a stadium. Some are just focused on how the school is impacted.

Whether you pay rent or a mortgage you're paying to occupy the facility.

With our current agreement we pay none of the operating cost.

Operating and up keep of a stadium is always a negative cash flow situation.

The city with 4 rent paying occupants loses almost $1 million a year operating the stadium.

But they recapture it through taxation created by the economic output of events held at the stadium.

The U of M would not have this revenue stream.

People like you only look at one item in a financial report such as rent but fail to look at everything else in the report.

You ignore the initial outlay of building. Then the annual operating loss. Then another outlay of funds every 5 or so years for upgrades to keep things updated. Then every 10-20 another major outlay for repairs due to daily wear and tear.

Why again are city officials lobbying the state right now? Oh year trying to get over $200 million in part to make needed upgrades to stadium. If the city cannot find funds to do this on its own, explain how the U of M would do it.

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 02:45 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:33 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:28 PM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 12:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  Since the state did this all for the University, are we going to get to use the stadium rent-free now?

Since the state did all this for Nashville, are we going to get to use the new Titan's stadium for free now?

As Mama says, stupid is as stupid does.

Couldn't agree more. Still stupid and paying the city to play in the The Liberty Bowl after 50 years of that failing to help move us up the conference ladder.

We have a sweet heart deal when it comes to the stadium rental. If we could average over 40,000-45,000 a game it was be close to rent free.

Wish some of you could understand the cost of operating a stadium. The city loses over a million dollars every year operating the stadium but makes it back on taxes collected due to the economic impact of events held at stadium.

Considering the average attendances then not even the sweetheart deal is enough most of the time. And why shoot for "close to rent free" if it can be avoided completely?

I think most if not all posting here know at least the basics of operating a stadium. Some are just focused on how the school is impacted.

because the alternative is like 300 million for a white elephant that will get used 6 times a year.

It took Memphis 20+ years to build an 11 million dollar IPF...just keep that in mind.

(01-13-2023 07:13 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 02:45 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:33 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:28 PM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  Since the state did all this for Nashville, are we going to get to use the new Titan's stadium for free now?

As Mama says, stupid is as stupid does.

Couldn't agree more. Still stupid and paying the city to play in the The Liberty Bowl after 50 years of that failing to help move us up the conference ladder.

We have a sweet heart deal when it comes to the stadium rental. If we could average over 40,000-45,000 a game it was be close to rent free.

Wish some of you could understand the cost of operating a stadium. The city loses over a million dollars every year operating the stadium but makes it back on taxes collected due to the economic impact of events held at stadium.

Considering the average attendances then not even the sweetheart deal is enough most of the time. And why shoot for "close to rent free" if it can be avoided completely?

I think most if not all posting here know at least the basics of operating a stadium. Some are just focused on how the school is impacted.

Whether you pay rent or a mortgage you're paying to occupy the facility.

With our current agreement we pay none of the operating cost.

Operating and up keep of a stadium is always a negative cash flow situation.

The city with 3 rent paying occupants loses almost $1 million a year operating the stadium.

But they recapture it through taxation created by the economic output of events held at the stadium.

The U of M would not have this revenue stream.

People like you only look at one item in a financial report such as rent but fail to look at everything else in the report.

You ignore the initial outlay of building. Then the annual operating loss. Then another outsy of funds every 5 or so years for upgrades to keep things updated. Then every 10-20 another major outlay for repairs due to daily wear and tear.

Why again are city officials lobbying the state right now? Oh year trying to get over $200 million in part to make needed upgrades to stadium. If the city cannot find funds to do this on its own, explain how the U of M would do it.

From the state just like the city. The same state that pays most of the costs for all other university facilities. I'm guessing you don't look at ROI in the same financial terms for libraries & classrooms - and they don't sell boxes & tickets. Further, I would have a lot more faith in university mgmt compared to the city. And who knows, there might be a fatcat that would pay a chunk to see his name on the facility somewhere. You're making the same reasonable but tired arguments that have been made since Crump Stadium & the Pyramid - and we're still falling farther behind.

(01-13-2023 07:44 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  From the state just like the city. The same state that pays most of the costs for all other university facilities. I'm guessing you don't look at ROI in the same financial terms for libraries & classrooms - and they don't sell boxes & tickets. Further, I would have a lot more faith in university mgmt compared to the city. And who knows, there might be a fatcat that would pay a chunk to see his name on the facility somewhere. You're making the same reasonable but tired arguments that have been made since Crump Stadium & the Pyramid - and we're still falling farther behind.

The same people you have no faith in because they can't/won't lobby the state and fire the coach? Interesting.

(01-13-2023 07:44 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 07:13 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 02:45 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:33 PM)Claw Wrote:  Couldn't agree more. Still stupid and paying the city to play in the The Liberty Bowl after 50 years of that failing to help move us up the conference ladder.

We have a sweet heart deal when it comes to the stadium rental. If we could average over 40,000-45,000 a game it was be close to rent free.

Wish some of you could understand the cost of operating a stadium. The city loses over a million dollars every year operating the stadium but makes it back on taxes collected due to the economic impact of events held at stadium.

Considering the average attendances then not even the sweetheart deal is enough most of the time. And why shoot for "close to rent free" if it can be avoided completely?

I think most if not all posting here know at least the basics of operating a stadium. Some are just focused on how the school is impacted.

Whether you pay rent or a mortgage you're paying to occupy the facility.

With our current agreement we pay none of the operating cost.

Operating and up keep of a stadium is always a negative cash flow situation.

The city with 3 rent paying occupants loses almost $1 million a year operating the stadium.

But they recapture it through taxation created by the economic output of events held at the stadium.

The U of M would not have this revenue stream.

People like you only look at one item in a financial report such as rent but fail to look at everything else in the report.

You ignore the initial outlay of building. Then the annual operating loss. Then another outsy of funds every 5 or so years for upgrades to keep things updated. Then every 10-20 another major outlay for repairs due to daily wear and tear.

Why again are city officials lobbying the state right now? Oh year trying to get over $200 million in part to make needed upgrades to stadium. If the city cannot find funds to do this on its own, explain how the U of M would do it.

From the state just like the city. The same state that pays most of the costs for all other university facilities. I'm guessing you don't look at ROI in the same financial terms for libraries & classrooms - and they don't sell boxes & tickets. Further, I would have a lot more faith in university mgmt compared to the city. And who knows, there might be a fatcat that would pay a chunk to see his name on the facility somewhere. You're making the same reasonable but tired arguments that have been made since Crump Stadium & the Pyramid - and we're still falling farther behind.

Classrooms and libraries are academic necessities for the university to do it's primary function, to educate the leaders of tomorrow. The ROI is our graduates going out there functioning and helping to build the economy and providing needed services.


The athletic programs are extracurricular and not not required for the university to perform its primary function. This isn't even an apples and oranges comparison. More like apples and turnips.

Also if the state didn't have a budget surplus this fiscal year they wouldn't be considering the latest city proposal.

(01-13-2023 07:13 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 02:45 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:33 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 01:28 PM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  Since the state did all this for Nashville, are we going to get to use the new Titan's stadium for free now?

As Mama says, stupid is as stupid does.

Couldn't agree more. Still stupid and paying the city to play in the The Liberty Bowl after 50 years of that failing to help move us up the conference ladder.

We have a sweet heart deal when it comes to the stadium rental. If we could average over 40,000-45,000 a game it was be close to rent free.

Wish some of you could understand the cost of operating a stadium. The city loses over a million dollars every year operating the stadium but makes it back on taxes collected due to the economic impact of events held at stadium.

Considering the average attendances then not even the sweetheart deal is enough most of the time. And why shoot for "close to rent free" if it can be avoided completely?

I think most if not all posting here know at least the basics of operating a stadium. Some are just focused on how the school is impacted.

Whether you pay rent or a mortgage you're paying to occupy the facility.

With our current agreement we pay none of the operating cost.

Operating and up keep of a stadium is always a negative cash flow situation.

The city with 3 rent paying occupants loses almost $1 million a year operating the stadium.

But they recapture it through taxation created by the economic output of events held at the stadium.

The U of M would not have this revenue stream.

People like you only look at one item in a financial report such as rent but fail to look at everything else in the report.

You ignore the initial outlay of building. Then the annual operating loss. Then another outsy of funds every 5 or so years for upgrades to keep things updated. Then every 10-20 another major outlay for repairs due to daily wear and tear.

Why again are city officials lobbying the state right now? Oh year trying to get over $200 million in part to make needed upgrades to stadium. If the city cannot find funds to do this on its own, explain how the U of M would do it.

Don't make assumptions and treat them as fact. I don't "only" look at rent. Remember you brought up rent, not me. So don't assume I only look at what you brought up.

The city would earn that money through taxes whether they own the stadium or not. And the city could eliminate the operating expenses if they didn't bother with being the owner. Also the UofM wouldn't need that revenue stream because for one they would actually own concessions. As we saw in an article from 2018 the City of Memphis made $605k from concessions during 2017 Memphis home games. So that's money the school would keep. They would be able to generate revenue from parking. Naming rights for the stadium if they chose to sell them. More advertising revenue since the school would own the building. Increase in potential donations. From the article I just linked I'll bold a key sentence for you.

Quote:The U of M doesn't earn any revenue from concessions, either at the FedExForum or the Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium, where the football team plays home games. Since the Tigers do not own those facilities, the athletic department only makes money off ticket sales at games.

“To have a program at this level be sustainably successful when you don't own the stadium you play in and you don't own the arena you play in — you literally take revenue that every other institution you compete against has access to and you cut your revenues into one single revenue stream, and that's ticketing,” said Tom Bowen, athletic director for the University of Memphis in a recent interview with the Memphis Business Journal.

My vision isn't that limited since I'm also looking at multiple potential revenue streams to help the school cover operational costs of owning the stadium. I'm not a "half-assed/no-assed" type of person when I'm looking at stuff like this. Your vision however sounds like the one that's limited. Maintenance and future upgrades? Duh, that's obviously a part of any building without even needing to look at an accounting statement.

(01-13-2023 07:37 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(01-13-2023 03:47 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I think most if not all posting here know at least the basics of operating a stadium. Some are just focused on how the school is impacted.

because the alternative is like 300 million for a white elephant that will get used 6 times a year.

It took Memphis 20+ years to build an 11 million dollar IPF...just keep that in mind.

True, but what I would like to see could be in use all year. If the school has to rely this much on the city we all may need to accept we don't have the financial means to join and compete properly in a P5 conference.