The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

No, the results of the Virginia Tech game were never in doubt, despite them going to sleep midway through the 2nd half.. They are a bottom level ACC team that likely won't be in the Top 50 for long. If they remain Top 100 by year's end, it's likely due to their own conference strength of schedule.

Charleston is having a great year. That game showed just how far away from where we used to be.

Other than those, the OOC schedule was putrid.

3 conference mates are in the Top 80, getting mileage out of close losses to top P5 schools. How good are they? If they really are Top 80, then mark down 3 more programs that have passed us by in the JJ era.

We did break into the Top 150 after losing to Troy. Strange metrics indeed. How do we have the #67 SOS with only 2 Top 100 OOC opponents? Is the Sun Belt that much better than last year? Maybe so.

In any case, the part of the schedule thar we can control, the out of conference part, was awful. What are your metrics on that?

Of course, SOS is rather subjective. When your program is hovering between 150 and 200, any opponent is tough.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to get VT on the schedule again regularly, as well as other ACC teams. But they aren't a top P5, and the game wasn't really competitive.

(01-07-2023 10:42 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  No, the results of the Virginia Tech game were never in doubt, despite them going to sleep midway through the 2nd half.. They are a bottom level ACC team that likely won't be in the Top 50 for long. If they remain Top 100 by year's end, it's likely due to their own conference strength of schedule.

Charleston is having a great year. That game showed just how far away from where we used to be.

Other than those, the OOC schedule was putrid.

3 conference mates are in the Top 80, getting mileage out of close losses to top P5 schools. How good are they? If they really are Top 80, then mark down 3 more programs that have passed us by in the JJ era.

We did break into the Top 150 after losing to Troy. Strange metrics indeed. How do we have the #67 SOS with only 2 Top 100 OOC opponents? Is the Sun Belt that much better than last year? Maybe so.

In any case, the part of the schedule thar we can control, the out of conference part, was awful. What are your metrics on that?

Of course, SOS is rather subjective. When your program is hovering between 150 and 200, any opponent is tough.

VT is 35th in KenPom. They would have to do a lot more losing to not be a top 50 team or to be considered a bottom of the ACC team with the likes of Louisville, ND, GT, Syracuse, etc. IF they remain top 100....do what? They have a lot of good wins...Ok State, UNC, Penn State, Dayton, and will had some good wins in conference play. That comment is silly. They started conference play rough but they are a very good team.

The OOC schedule also had Furman, Davidson, Mason that are all borderline top 100. GW, Drexel, NSU, ECU are top 200 teams. We had very limited non conference games against terrible teams (a Div 3 school, W&M, and MES). As I showed you...and using commons sense, this schedule was nowhere close to being the worst ever. It can't even be reasonable argued. the reason the schedule is graded highly is because we didn't play several >300 schools like most of our conference mates (and conferences that are similar to the SB). We played competitive teams that were the bottom feeders of college basketball (like Marshall and JMU did)

You bring up Southern Miss..they don't have any close losses to top P5 schools. JMU had a close loss to UVA, but you wouldn't consider that (5 point game) because you would think the game was never in doubt. Marshall doesn't have any close P5 losses to top programs. Serious question, do you look up these things before making comments like that?

(01-07-2023 11:27 AM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(01-07-2023 10:42 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  No, the results of the Virginia Tech game were never in doubt, despite them going to sleep midway through the 2nd half.. They are a bottom level ACC team that likely won't be in the Top 50 for long. If they remain Top 100 by year's end, it's likely due to their own conference strength of schedule.

Charleston is having a great year. That game showed just how far away from where we used to be.

Other than those, the OOC schedule was putrid.

3 conference mates are in the Top 80, getting mileage out of close losses to top P5 schools. How good are they? If they really are Top 80, then mark down 3 more programs that have passed us by in the JJ era.

We did break into the Top 150 after losing to Troy. Strange metrics indeed. How do we have the #67 SOS with only 2 Top 100 OOC opponents? Is the Sun Belt that much better than last year? Maybe so.

In any case, the part of the schedule thar we can control, the out of conference part, was awful. What are your metrics on that?

Of course, SOS is rather subjective. When your program is hovering between 150 and 200, any opponent is tough.

VT is 35th in KenPom. They would have to do a lot more losing to not be a top 50 team or to be considered a bottom of the ACC team with the likes of Louisville, ND, GT, Syracuse, etc. IF they remain top 100....do what? They have a lot of good wins...Ok State, UNC, Penn State, Dayton, and will had some good wins in conference play. That comment is silly. They started conference play rough but they are a very good team.

The OOC schedule also had Furman, Davidson, Mason that are all borderline top 100. GW, Drexel, NSU, ECU are top 200 teams. We had very limited non conference games against terrible teams (a Div 3 school, W&M, and MES). As I showed you...and using commons sense, this schedule was nowhere close to being the worst ever. It can't even be reasonable argued. the reason the schedule is graded highly is because we didn't play several >300 schools like most of our conference mates (and conferences that are similar to the SB). We played competitive teams that were the bottom feeders of college basketball (like Marshall and JMU did)

You bring up Southern Miss..they don't have any close losses to top P5 schools. JMU had a close loss to UVA, but you wouldn't consider that (5 point game) because you would think the game was never in doubt. Marshall doesn't have any close P5 losses to top programs. Serious question, do you look up these things before making comments like that?

Then how do Southern Miss, JMU, and Marshall end up in the 70s despite losses to Queens College and Coppin State while we're were in the 160 range until losing to Troy? We have a winning record against the (supposed) #67 Schedule in the nation and are still at 149. Apparently, something is missing. If it's not Strength of schedule, then what is it?

(We should never schedule multiple MEAC Schools or any D3 team in the regular season.)

Some of the metrics (if not most) do not include non Division 1 games.

I don't see the big deal about scheduling 1 local Div 3 school (one that is a very good D-3 school at that). We have done it in a lot of years in the past and many schools feel the need to schedule 2-3 of them. I have no problem playing CNU or VW every year, its a fun game that eases us into the non conference portion against a team that is fairly competitive.

I get the heartache over 2 MEAC schools. I would love to schedule a different team than Maryland ES but NSU is a very competitive school. It makes a ton of sense to play them and for people that were it the game this year, its clear they should be on the schedule every year

It impossible to put together a schedule of all P5 teams unless you just want to put your guys on the road, getting blown out for almost no reason outside of money. Maybe you occasionally win one that is great (Syracuse), but it doesn't make sense to me. The environment has changed to where very few G5s are going to get at large bids.

So what is the solution? Play a lot of competitive G5 games, both home and on the road. Since the A-10 wont play us, then finding games with Charleston, Furman/Davidson, ECU, Gardner Webb, etc is a logical move.

Play a local D3, NSU, William and Mary, and ECU. Add 1 P5 school (or 2), and fill in the gaps with solid mid major programs is perfectly fine. We had 2 non conference games against above 300 schools (including the D3 school) and not playing William and Mary would be pretty dumb. Thats why our schedule is looked at favorably this year.

I agree with scheduling W&M. Scheduling isn't an exact science, and you just don't know how a good a team will be year to year. Honestly, my criticism of the schedule is purely an eye test. Especially the home schedule. When I see two MEAC Schools, a D3, Gardner Webb, etc. I have trouble getting excited. We should schedule W&M, East Carolina, and Mason frequently. But they shouldn't be the highlights of our home schedule

Anyhow, my question is an honest one. What did JMU, Southern Miss, and Marshall do to get ranked so high? And if our schedule really is that tough, why are we ranked so low? I know thar NET rankings supposedly consider scoring margin? Does JMU really benefit from beating up on Valley Forge by 80 points? If so, then there is something dreadfully wrong with this metric.

I randomly picked a season from the Blaine Taylor years (09-10) which turned out to be a good one and showed the following ODU out of conference schedule (not including their CAA schedule) -

Bethune Cookman - home (W)

Longwood - home (W)

Liberty - away (W)

Marshall - home (W)

Missouri - neutral (L)

Mississippi State - neutral (L)

Richmond - away (L)

Mt. St. Mary - home (W)

Dayton - away (L)

Georgetown (#11) - away (W)

Charlotte - home (W)

Duquesne - home (W)

The team finished 27-9 that season, won the CAA Tournament, and advanced to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament after defeating Notre Dame in New Orleans. It's the kind of schedule and results that longtime ODU fans are missing these days.

I can't say that our current schedule rivals the one above, and I know that the results don't.

At this point, in 2023, I don’t have a problem with the schedule. It’s ridiculous now with the politics of college hoops. At least we don’t have 3 non D1 schools on the schedule and the one D3 team we did play is one of the best d3 schools in the nation. I will agree that the schedule on paper looked terrible, but has ended up being ok.

With all that being said, the team stinks. ODU is currently ranked 170ish which is exactly what they deserve. Our three road games… they stink on ice. That’s what I have a problem with. I like some of the players, I’m on their side. But I’m fed up with this program as a hole. I keep tuning in hoping to see improvement but it’s just not there. Same product almost for 4 years running.

(01-06-2023 04:48 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(01-06-2023 04:32 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(01-06-2023 04:27 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  

(01-06-2023 04:25 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  

(01-06-2023 03:41 PM)Old Dom Swag Wrote:  ODU is 160th at KenPom. Projected for a 17-13 record, 9-9 in conference after yesterdays game(s)

That is exactly what we are. A middling team that can play well sometimes and horrible other times. A Jekyl and Hyde type of team. Nothing more than a .500 team.

It seems like the SBC pre-season polling on us was very accurate in football and basketball, i.e., the worst team in football and 9th in basketball.

We are not the 9th best team in the Sunbelt.

You're right, we are currently 11th in the standings. Where do you think we will finish though? Right now its looking like we'll probably finish 7th or 8th to me. Bottom line is Jeff Jones and Wood Selig have basically turned this program into the southeast Va equivalent of American U basketball. And with one of the best arenas, highest budgets, good recruiting areas and strongest fan bases at our level.

Not sure if you are using overall record, but by conference record we are tied for 6th. Along with 8 other teams. Need a few more games before conference records start to pan out.

Scheduling today is very different than it was 10 years ago.

Our problem this year isn’t our schedule, it’s our offense.

Love reading these boards - Stat Geek makes our posters look worse than our team at times.

(01-07-2023 12:34 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I agree with scheduling W&M. Scheduling isn't an exact science, and you just don't know how a good a team will be year to year. Honestly, my criticism of the schedule is purely an eye test. Especially the home schedule. When I see two MEAC Schools, a D3, Gardner Webb, etc. I have trouble getting excited. We should schedule W&M, East Carolina, and Mason frequently. But they shouldn't be the highlights of our home schedule

Anyhow, my question is an honest one. What did JMU, Southern Miss, and Marshall do to get ranked so high? And if our schedule really is that tough, why are we ranked so low? I know thar NET rankings supposedly consider scoring margin? Does JMU really benefit from beating up on Valley Forge by 80 points? If so, then there is something dreadfully wrong with this metric.

Well, I think Net is a bad metric, though it is better than RPI. And yes, scoring margin is impacted through PPP and opponensts PPP.

(01-07-2023 12:44 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I randomly picked a season from the Blaine Taylor years (09-10) which turned out to be a good one and showed the following ODU out of conference schedule (not including their CAA schedule) -

Bethune Cookman - home (W)

Longwood - home (W)

Liberty - away (W)

Marshall - home (W)

Missouri - neutral (L)

Mississippi State - neutral (L)

Richmond - away (L)

Mt. St. Mary - home (W)

Dayton - away (L)

Georgetown (#11) - away (W)

Charlotte - home (W)

Duquesne - home (W)

The team finished 27-9 that season, won the CAA Tournament, and advanced to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament after defeating Notre Dame in New Orleans. It's the kind of schedule and results that longtime ODU fans are missing these days.

I can't say that our current schedule rivals the one above, and I know that the results don't.

the year prior to that:

Charlotte- 140
UAB- 53
Bucknel 293
Marshall 154
Richmond 114
Delaware 211
NCC 343
Duquesne 85
Winthrop 278
Maryland Eastern Shore 342
Winston Salem State 338

If you want to talk about bad schedules...

Troy announced attendance was 2322 45% capacity for the ODU game. That’s a joke, they didn’t have 300 in the arena. Today against Ark St they announced 2972 and 57% capacity. The video shows it’s empty. What’s wrong with those people. Making up attendance numbers.

(01-07-2023 12:50 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  At this point, in 2023, I don’t have a problem with the schedule. It’s ridiculous now with the politics of college hoops. At least we don’t have 3 non D1 schools on the schedule and the one D3 team we did play is one of the best d3 schools in the nation. I will agree that the schedule on paper looked terrible, but has ended up being ok.

With all that being said, the team stinks. ODU is currently ranked 170ish which is exactly what they deserve. Our three road games… they stink on ice. That’s what I have a problem with. I like some of the players, I’m on their side. But I’m fed up with this program as a hole. I keep tuning in hoping to see improvement but it’s just not there. Same product almost for 4 years running.

Im just curious, what ranking has us 170?

I think this team is significantly better than the last 3 years. I really don't think it is close. Whether that means we need a change is certainly up for conversation, but I don't think this team stinks.

(01-07-2023 01:56 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Scheduling today is very different than it was 10 years ago.

Our problem this year isn’t our schedule, it’s our offense.

Our offense has actually been at the same level as the defense (actually a hair better).

Its def not great but has been solid outside of a handful of stinkers. Consistency has been an issue.

The last few games starting with Norfolk State:

Offensive Efficiency:
112
115.6
65.4!
121.2
96.4
101.3
102.4
113.5

Our defense the last 2 games...and vs. Mason and Ark State was not good

(01-07-2023 08:02 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(01-07-2023 12:44 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  I randomly picked a season from the Blaine Taylor years (09-10) which turned out to be a good one and showed the following ODU out of conference schedule (not including their CAA schedule) -

Bethune Cookman - home (W)

Longwood - home (W)

Liberty - away (W)

Marshall - home (W)

Missouri - neutral (L)

Mississippi State - neutral (L)

Richmond - away (L)

Mt. St. Mary - home (W)

Dayton - away (L)

Georgetown (#11) - away (W)

Charlotte - home (W)

Duquesne - home (W)

The team finished 27-9 that season, won the CAA Tournament, and advanced to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament after defeating Notre Dame in New Orleans. It's the kind of schedule and results that longtime ODU fans are missing these days.

I can't say that our current schedule rivals the one above, and I know that the results don't.

the year prior to that:

Charlotte- 140
UAB- 53
Bucknel 293
Marshall 154
Richmond 114
Delaware 211
NCC 343
Duquesne 85
Winthrop 278
Maryland Eastern Shore 342
Winston Salem State 338

If you want to talk about bad schedules...

I initially picked one totally at random. By the way, Delaware on your list was a CAA Conference game. Here's the OOC schedule for 06-07 -

Monmouth - home
ARK. St. - home
Clemson - home
Florida Atlantic - home
Georgetown - away
Richmond - home
Marist - away
VA Tech - away
SC St. - home
UAB - home
Winthrop - home

ODU went 24-9 and got an NCAA Tournament at large bid.

And here's the OOC schedule for 05- 06 -

Georgia - neutral
Fordham - neutral
Wisconsin - neutral
Mount St. Mary's - home
VMI - away
ECU - home
Depaul - home
Richmond - away
UAB - away
VA Tech - home

ODU went 24-10 that season and advanced to the NIT Final Four.

ODU really had a lot of good success going for it during those seasons. The year before that one 04-05, they went 27-6, won the CAA Tournament, and went to the NCAA Tournament. We all miss having those kinds of seasons.

(01-07-2023 08:05 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(01-07-2023 12:50 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  At this point, in 2023, I don’t have a problem with the schedule. It’s ridiculous now with the politics of college hoops. At least we don’t have 3 non D1 schools on the schedule and the one D3 team we did play is one of the best d3 schools in the nation. I will agree that the schedule on paper looked terrible, but has ended up being ok.

With all that being said, the team stinks. ODU is currently ranked 170ish which is exactly what they deserve. Our three road games… they stink on ice. That’s what I have a problem with. I like some of the players, I’m on their side. But I’m fed up with this program as a hole. I keep tuning in hoping to see improvement but it’s just not there. Same product almost for 4 years running.

Im just curious, what ranking has us 170?

I think this team is significantly better than the last 3 years. I really don't think it is close. Whether that means we need a change is certainly up for conversation, but I don't think this team stinks.

I agree. I don't think the team stinks either. It's all relative to past ODU teams as far as the current expectations go. Results and accomplishments are the bottom line. There is still time for ODU to have a good season.

I was looking at Kenpom. Which I think had em at162 or something. What difference does it make? They just won an overtime road game against number 214 or whatever. I stand behind what I said. The program is stale and average is what I shoulda said. They’ve been average for 4 straight years. Lucky for us the entire league is pretty damn average, so they fit right in. There’s a lot of basketball left, so we shall see. Let’s see if they can accomplish anything this year. It’s still out in front of them.