(12-17-2022 02:27 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

...I wonder if WSU/OSU will 'bundle' with Gonzaga and perhaps another bball only school (WichitaSt., Creighton) and jump in... the Big XII is pretty much the top bball conference the last few years, so bball members could be a thing for them...

Cal (and, by extension Stanford) would not be wanted by the XII... Yormark has mentioned, specifically, a fit in culture was a requirement... their culture would be a non-starter. It would be the equivalent add bringing Texas back.

(12-17-2022 09:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 02:32 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

I think you mentioned SDSU and Fresno state.

But if the ACC doesn't invite Memphis, a Memphis-Tulane combination could happen too. Or Rice-Tulane, if using their AAU status to try to entice the 4C schools.

All that said, I think we should start saying 3C - I don't think Utah wants to leave the NW schools.

Colorado is not interested in the Big 12.

Colorado's administration claims to not be interested in the big 12, but their fans want to secure their future. Their best future is a whole bunch of 10 win seasons with Deion running things, renewed fan interest, and a P2 invite sometime down the road. Their worst? Sticking in a fading Pac long term as teams either get siphoned off or continue to lose fan interest and engagement, leading their own fans to lose engagement and interest, and they eventually way down the road drop football after the rest of their Pac brethren do it. Colorado might have the greatest potential swing between "renewed National Power" and "no more football team at all" of any school in the country right now.

(12-17-2022 01:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If I’m Oregon or Washington, I’m holding through the next media contract cycle in hopes of a Big 10 invite.

This hope is going to prevent them from entertaining offers from the Big 12 or ACC and if those 2 stay, then the rest stay.

Don’t get me wrong, the PAC 10 has been significantly weakened but I don’t think it’s time to bust up the league prematurely, especially to run headlong into an east coast league with a GOR that goes until the late 2030s

I don't know, an extra $25m for 13 years rather than the hope of 6 years (starting in 2030) of an extra $50m is something they'd have to seriously consider. And if the B1G would take them in 2030 then they'd be just as likely to want them in 2036.

The issue with the PN4 is that the B1G has basically frozen them with their mixed signals. They're not leaving for an extra (theoretically) $10m a year in the big 12 or $15m a year in the ACC when they can have $40m from the B1G with no buyout if they just stay in the Pac for a few more months/years. Perhaps those months and years eventually turn into a decade and the PN4 eventually moves on though, who knows.

(12-17-2022 02:27 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

...I wonder if WSU/OSU will 'bundle' with Gonzaga and perhaps another bball only school (WichitaSt., Creighton) and jump in... the Big XII is pretty much the top bball conference the last few years, so bball members could be a thing for them...

Why would Kansas and Kansas State agree to upgrade Wichita State to power status?

Creighton would be insane to leave their peers in the Big East. The Big XII doesn’t need help in basketball (or football for that matter) but if they really want a basketball power, UConn is right there.

(12-17-2022 02:27 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

...I wonder if WSU/OSU will 'bundle' with Gonzaga and perhaps another bball only school (WichitaSt., Creighton) and jump in... the Big XII is pretty much the top bball conference the last few years, so bball members could be a thing for them...

If the 4C don’t want to leave Washington and Oregon, WSU/OSU for sure would not.

(12-17-2022 02:19 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If I’m Oregon or Washington, I’m holding through the next media contract cycle in hopes of a Big 10 invite.

This hope is going to prevent them from entertaining offers from the Big 12 or ACC and if those 2 stay, then the rest stay.

Don’t get me wrong, the PAC 10 has been significantly weakened but I don’t think it’s time to bust up the league prematurely, especially to run headlong into an east coast league with a GOR that goes until the late 2030s

I don't know, an extra $25m for 13 years rather than the hope of 6 years (starting in 2030) of an extra $50m is something they'd have to seriously consider. And if the B1G would take them in 2030 then they'd be just as likely to want them in 2036.

The issue with the PN4 is that the B1G has basically frozen them with their mixed signals. They're not leaving for an extra (theoretically) $10m a year in the big 12 or $15m a year in the ACC when they can have $40m from the B1G with no buyout if they just stay in the Pac for a few more months/years. Perhaps those months and years eventually turn into a decade and the PN4 eventually moves on though, who knows.

The mixed signals are what is messing with current negotiations. I think the mixed signals come from Warren really wanting to build an NFL-like league but instead falling backwards into the USCLA additions which the B1G membership likes more than a giant league.

Without that hope of a B1G invite, the PAC 10 could be collectively working towards a much more meaningful shared path forward.

I still think the best play is to join the ACC, but I would leave OSU and WSU and bring SDSU instead. Then demand enough from the ESPN’s PACN buyout to buy Kansas out of the BigXII. That gets a 10th member that fits the profile and puts the BigXII solidly behind the ACC/PAC perception wise.

*sale of the PACN would have to precede dissolution of the conference.

CU/KU and UU/SDSU make for a more natural rivalries because nobody is driving across the Rockies in late November. Also we get the WAC-MWC Uto-Aztecan language group rivalry restored.

(12-17-2022 12:43 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...get it? "Prime"?

Just putting this on here... He notes a CBS article (Dennis Dodd) - and states the possibility of expansion for Big XII around the 10-minute mark:







...here's the Dodd article:

UT-OU 2024 exit from Big XII could spur Big XII expansion...

This guy might be plugged in, and full of info, but damn his vids are like watching paint dry.

(12-17-2022 03:35 PM)Dawgpile Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 12:43 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...get it? "Prime"?

Just putting this on here... He notes a CBS article (Dennis Dodd) - and states the possibility of expansion for Big XII around the 10-minute mark:







...here's the Dodd article:

UT-OU 2024 exit from Big XII could spur Big XII expansion...

This guy might be plugged in, and full of info, but damn his vids are like watching paint dry.

definitely concur... ...I suggest running it at least 1.5 speed...

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

I feel like the "next tier" of schools (Boise St., Memphis, SMU, USF) that they originally looked at when they ultimately added UCF/Houston/Cincy/BYU would be logical to at least take a second look at for the Big XII.

(12-17-2022 02:33 PM)Crayton Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 02:27 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

...I wonder if WSU/OSU will 'bundle' with Gonzaga and perhaps another bball only school (WichitaSt., Creighton) and jump in... the Big XII is pretty much the top bball conference the last few years, so bball members could be a thing for them...

If the 4C don’t want to leave Washington and Oregon, WSU/OSU for sure would not.

The issue COULD end up being if the PAC media deal ends up with 'unequal revenue sharing'... right or wrong, OSU/WSU would be at the short end of that stick... I read somewhere (sorry no link ) that the 'distribution range' from top (UO, Udub, Stan and maybe Zona) to the 'bottom' schools could be as much as $10 million - with that, WSU/OSU could stand to make at LEAST that much of a $$$ jump from PAC to BIG XII - and remember, the Big XII media deal is said to be ADDITIVE for P5 programs... so no 'loss' for the members of the Big XII by bringing them in... and the Zaga angle would again be a 'bundle' deal, as Spokane and Pullman are not too far apart, at least for NW territories... even Corvalis is a 'doable' trip, although on the 'west side' of the Cascades...

(12-17-2022 01:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If I’m Oregon or Washington, I’m holding through the next media contract cycle in hopes of a Big 10 invite.

This hope is going to prevent them from entertaining offers from the Big 12 or ACC and if those 2 stay, then the rest stay.

Don’t get me wrong, the PAC 10 has been significantly weakened but I don’t think it’s time to bust up the league prematurely, especially to run headlong into an east coast league with a GOR that goes until the late 2030s

If this news about the Four Corners going to the Big 12 is true, then that’s a pretty clear sign that at the very least Oregon and Washington (and possibly Stanford and Cal) are going to the Big Ten.


The Four Corners was not going to go to the Big 12 unless the PAC lost more teams.


I’ve wondered if the Big 12’s sudden desire to negotiate with Texas and OU might be a sign that the Four Corners are going to the Big 12 (and by extension that more PAC teams are going to the BIG)

(12-17-2022 01:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:24 PM)Huan Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 09:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 02:32 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

I think you mentioned SDSU and Fresno state.

But if the ACC doesn't invite Memphis, a Memphis-Tulane combination could happen too. Or Rice-Tulane, if using their AAU status to try to entice the 4C schools.

All that said, I think we should start saying 3C - I don't think Utah wants to leave the NW schools.

Colorado is not interested in the Big 12.

Not sure what Colorado brings to the Big12

Geography. Population. State flagship. History (they were in the original Big12). Timezone.

That Utah, Colorado, Arizona block is a good geographic fit that brings extra population, 3 large cities, additional inventory in the late window time zone, and 3 flagship universities. By the way, those flagships are very limited in the Big12---they only have 3 and two are walking out the door.

These schools would be good long term additions for Big12 value and stability due to all these factors. That said---I honestly think a limited or even a full Big12/Pac12 merger would be a smart move as it guarantees everyone involved is always going to have a place in the top level of college football. A league with such a wide footprint that controls the wast majority of all P5 content west of the Mississippi is simply too big to ignore. The Big-12 with the 4-corners comes pretty close to doing the same thing as it becomes a very significant player capable of filling any time zone window on TV.

The Big XII has four flagships - last I checked, West Virginia is still in the Big XII.

And it's not like Colorado has compelling history with the Big XII. Sure, they've played Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Oklahoma State several times, but it's not like any of those are rivalry games or games that the networks would drop extra money on for the "history."

(12-17-2022 03:07 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 02:19 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If I’m Oregon or Washington, I’m holding through the next media contract cycle in hopes of a Big 10 invite.

This hope is going to prevent them from entertaining offers from the Big 12 or ACC and if those 2 stay, then the rest stay.

Don’t get me wrong, the PAC 10 has been significantly weakened but I don’t think it’s time to bust up the league prematurely, especially to run headlong into an east coast league with a GOR that goes until the late 2030s

I don't know, an extra $25m for 13 years rather than the hope of 6 years (starting in 2030) of an extra $50m is something they'd have to seriously consider. And if the B1G would take them in 2030 then they'd be just as likely to want them in 2036.

The issue with the PN4 is that the B1G has basically frozen them with their mixed signals. They're not leaving for an extra (theoretically) $10m a year in the big 12 or $15m a year in the ACC when they can have $40m from the B1G with no buyout if they just stay in the Pac for a few more months/years. Perhaps those months and years eventually turn into a decade and the PN4 eventually moves on though, who knows.

The mixed signals are what is messing with current negotiations. I think the mixed signals come from Warren really wanting to build an NFL-like league but instead falling backwards into the USCLA additions which the B1G membership likes more than a giant league.

Without that hope of a B1G invite, the PAC 10 could be collectively working towards a much more meaningful shared path forward.

I still think the best play is to join the ACC, but I would leave OSU and WSU and bring SDSU instead. Then demand enough from the ESPN’s PACN buyout to buy Kansas out of the BigXII. That gets a 10th member that fits the profile and puts the BigXII solidly behind the ACC/PAC perception wise.

*sale of the PACN would have to precede dissolution of the conference.

CU/KU and UU/SDSU make for a more natural rivalries because nobody is driving across the Rockies in late November. Also we get the WAC-MWC Uto-Aztecan language group rivalry restored.

Joining the ACC is the best play. But Phillips needs to be more aggressive. If Yormark were an ACC commish, the Pac schools would have already joined the ACC.

The P5 commissioners with respect to the expansion:

SEC: No
BIG: Done for now
ACC: Always looking
PAC: Wait and see
B12: Open for business

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...atform=amp

(12-17-2022 01:48 PM)cc22 Wrote:  There's no way any of Kansas, Kansas State or Iowa State would support Wichita State or Creighton.

Last time I checked, Creighton wasn't in Kansas or Iowa.

(12-17-2022 04:19 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

I feel like the "next tier" of schools (Boise St., Memphis, SMU, USF) that they originally looked at when they ultimately added UCF/Houston/Cincy/BYU would be logical to at least take a second look at for the Big XII.

The Big 12 might as well invite Rutgers if it's looking at "next tier" schools.

(12-17-2022 06:54 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 04:19 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

I feel like the "next tier" of schools (Boise St., Memphis, SMU, USF) that they originally looked at when they ultimately added UCF/Houston/Cincy/BYU would be logical to at least take a second look at for the Big XII.

The Big 12 might as well invite Rutgers if it's looking at "next tier" schools.

...well, it WOULD give WVU a travel partner... ...sorta...

(12-17-2022 04:19 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:26 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  If some of the 4 corner schools not interested in the Big 12? Who will they target?

I feel like the "next tier" of schools (Boise St., Memphis, SMU, USF) that they originally looked at when they ultimately added UCF/Houston/Cincy/BYU would be logical to at least take a second look at for the Big XII.

The issue there is the Big12 really doesnt need them. The Big12 has already secured their TV deal---and has a place at the CFP table. It would definitely enhance the long term security and strength of the Big 12 if they could attract additional P5 schools----but I dont think the Big12 really enhances it's position significantly by adding G5's (plus their TV deal doesnt promise pro-rata increases for G5's---only for P5's).

(12-17-2022 04:36 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:24 PM)Huan Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 09:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 02:32 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  I think you mentioned SDSU and Fresno state.

But if the ACC doesn't invite Memphis, a Memphis-Tulane combination could happen too. Or Rice-Tulane, if using their AAU status to try to entice the 4C schools.

All that said, I think we should start saying 3C - I don't think Utah wants to leave the NW schools.

Colorado is not interested in the Big 12.

Not sure what Colorado brings to the Big12

Geography. Population. State flagship. History (they were in the original Big12). Timezone.

That Utah, Colorado, Arizona block is a good geographic fit that brings extra population, 3 large cities, additional inventory in the late window time zone, and 3 flagship universities. By the way, those flagships are very limited in the Big12---they only have 3 and two are walking out the door.

These schools would be good long term additions for Big12 value and stability due to all these factors. That said---I honestly think a limited or even a full Big12/Pac12 merger would be a smart move as it guarantees everyone involved is always going to have a place in the top level of college football. A league with such a wide footprint that controls the wast majority of all P5 content west of the Mississippi is simply too big to ignore. The Big-12 with the 4-corners comes pretty close to doing the same thing as it becomes a very significant player capable of filling any time zone window on TV.

The Big XII has four flagships - last I checked, West Virginia is still in the Big XII.

And it's not like Colorado has compelling history with the Big XII. Sure, they've played Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Oklahoma State several times, but it's not like any of those are rivalry games or games that the networks would drop extra money on for the "history."

My bad---totally forgot about W Virginia. That said, the geography for those 4 corners schools works. It makes sense long term. Something like an ACC/Pac12 merger---not so much.

I think having a P4 is infinitely better in the new format than top 6 CCs. You can assure your champ gets a bye every year if you can systematically eliminate the PAC12. That's why Yormark continues to lob grenades. Anyone in his position would. This year, there was a legitimate debate between Utah and KSU. It's best to just assure your champ will get the bye 99% of the time. Also, more teams allow for more At-Large opportunities. Nonetheless, it continue to be in the Big 12's best interest to get a deal done and push the PAC10 over the edge.

(12-17-2022 07:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 04:36 PM)OhioBoilermaker Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 01:24 PM)Huan Wrote:  

(12-17-2022 09:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Colorado is not interested in the Big 12.

Not sure what Colorado brings to the Big12

Geography. Population. State flagship. History (they were in the original Big12). Timezone.

That Utah, Colorado, Arizona block is a good geographic fit that brings extra population, 3 large cities, additional inventory in the late window time zone, and 3 flagship universities. By the way, those flagships are very limited in the Big12---they only have 3 and two are walking out the door.

These schools would be good long term additions for Big12 value and stability due to all these factors. That said---I honestly think a limited or even a full Big12/Pac12 merger would be a smart move as it guarantees everyone involved is always going to have a place in the top level of college football. A league with such a wide footprint that controls the wast majority of all P5 content west of the Mississippi is simply too big to ignore. The Big-12 with the 4-corners comes pretty close to doing the same thing as it becomes a very significant player capable of filling any time zone window on TV.

The Big XII has four flagships - last I checked, West Virginia is still in the Big XII.

And it's not like Colorado has compelling history with the Big XII. Sure, they've played Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Oklahoma State several times, but it's not like any of those are rivalry games or games that the networks would drop extra money on for the "history."

My bad---totally forgot about W Virginia. That said, the geography for those 4 corners schools works. It makes sense long term. Something like an ACC/Pac12 merger---not so much.

December 1, 1947