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jones682 Offline
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Post: #221
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-13-2023 02:08 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 11:07 AM)jones682 Wrote:  
(01-12-2023 06:30 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-12-2023 04:01 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  
(01-12-2023 02:41 PM)unalions Wrote:  From page 6:

Accordingly, the University reports net operating losses of $(91,131,509), $(79,892,202), and $(91,047,715), for fiscal years 2021, 2020, and 2019, respectively.


Per this 2021 financial statement, WKU's operating expenses were $236,512,000 producing an operating loss of $91,132,000. Check out page 7.

https://www.wku.edu/strategyopfin/financ...t_2021.pdf

I am not an accountant. Bureaucracies can do a lot of things with creative financing. I think if WKU was losing 91M in any year it would be all over the local and state news. You can't "hide" that big of a number.

That loss is before state funds, grants, contracts and investment income is applied. They didn’t end the year in the red in 2021 but did slightly during the two years prior which I’m sure was pandemic-related. UNA also had operational losses on the books for those years. Just much less.

I’m not trying to attack WKU but I was a bit jealous of how much money from the state y’all get and can use for athletics. UNA will definitely have to find other sources of revenue since those state dollars don’t flow the same from broke Alabama.

You make some valid points about percentages of funding for ours and other programs. But, it’s fun to dive into the numbers a bit more than just athletics.

I’ve been looking for KSU’s financial statements to take a look.

KSU overall school budget is 642M with is the 4th highest in Georgia

Please present a link for my perusal and review.

It is on the USG website
01-13-2023 03:51 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #222
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-13-2023 02:13 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 09:36 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If CUSA goes to 12, as has been speculated, and the 2 additions were from the WACASUN, would that curtail this ambitious group or no?

Well, they keep saying that 4 others will join the AWFC bumping the total to 14. So, no.

Of course WACSUN proponents are going to say "NO".

The problem is... there are a lot of problems. And uncertainties-- which have been discussed over and over and over here and elsewhere. There are a lot of "moving parts" on ALL sides.

Till ALL these hurdles/hoops are solved-- IMHO(hear that?-IMHO) then I do NOT see anyone else giving up their current situation to join this group. Now-- some of them might be on "standby" IF all the hurdles are completed.

And those "hurdles" can't be solved on message boards-- It would have to happen in the real world and in writing.

You can be sure C-USA will invite the Strongest two of the group that makes geographic sense.---*While NOT a "death blow" to the remaining group-- it certainly would weaken them significantly. Also we do not know how strong-weak the agreement "sheet" is between these ten schools.

That would leave eight-- then-- UTRGV will not be prepared for a long while IMO-- and at least one of the Utah schools will not be ready anytime soon. That gets you down to six IMHO. Next you would have to convince two to join this unsure venture and leave what they have now.

And that ASSUMES all the "hurdles" are solved.
IF they are not solved-- then this whole idea is mute.

Possibility-- A "death blow" COULD come IMO--- IF dominoes above fall heavily and C-USA has to add 3-5 schools all from the WACSUN. Then, they would obviously not have enough to continue.

**The CRAZY part about this whole thing is that one year from now we may not know anymore than now.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2023 11:07 PM by TOPSTRAIGHT.)
01-13-2023 09:11 PM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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Post: #223
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-13-2023 02:44 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:13 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 09:36 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If CUSA goes to 12, as has been speculated, and the 2 additions were from the WACASUN, would that curtail this ambitious group or no?

Well, they keep saying that 4 others will join the AWFC bumping the total to 14. So, no.

Any idea who those 4 might be? Gotta say that if a school is wanting to move up and gathers the resources to do so, there shouldn't be some arbitrary rule saying you can't without an fbs conference invite which might never come.

One name which has came up the most often is MoSt. They have been unsuccessful in gaining an invite to any FBS conference.
01-14-2023 09:45 AM
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MinerInWisconsin Offline
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Post: #224
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-14-2023 09:45 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:44 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:13 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 09:36 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If CUSA goes to 12, as has been speculated, and the 2 additions were from the WACASUN, would that curtail this ambitious group or no?

Well, they keep saying that 4 others will join the AWFC bumping the total to 14. So, no.

Any idea who those 4 might be? Gotta say that if a school is wanting to move up and gathers the resources to do so, there shouldn't be some arbitrary rule saying you can't without an fbs conference invite which might never come.

One name which has came up the most often is MoSt. They have been unsuccessful in gaining an invite to any FBS conference.

Their fans are waiting for the AAC to come calling. I think it will be a long wait.
01-14-2023 11:01 AM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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Post: #225
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-14-2023 11:01 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(01-14-2023 09:45 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:44 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:13 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 09:36 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If CUSA goes to 12, as has been speculated, and the 2 additions were from the WACASUN, would that curtail this ambitious group or no?

Well, they keep saying that 4 others will join the AWFC bumping the total to 14. So, no.

Any idea who those 4 might be? Gotta say that if a school is wanting to move up and gathers the resources to do so, there shouldn't be some arbitrary rule saying you can't without an fbs conference invite which might never come.

One name which has came up the most often is MoSt. They have been unsuccessful in gaining an invite to any FBS conference.

Their fans are waiting for the AAC to come calling. I think it will be a long wait.

Maybe a long wait before anyone calls. Better options for every conference.
01-14-2023 11:35 AM
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unalions Offline
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Post: #226
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-13-2023 02:44 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:13 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 09:36 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If CUSA goes to 12, as has been speculated, and the 2 additions were from the WACASUN, would that curtail this ambitious group or no?

Well, they keep saying that 4 others will join the AWFC bumping the total to 14. So, no.

Any idea who those 4 might be? Gotta say that if a school is wanting to move up and gathers the resources to do so, there shouldn't be some arbitrary rule saying you can't without an fbs conference invite which might never come.

I hear Chattanooga is one. No clue on the other three.
01-14-2023 12:11 PM
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EKUSteve Offline
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Post: #227
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-14-2023 12:11 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:44 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:13 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 09:36 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If CUSA goes to 12, as has been speculated, and the 2 additions were from the WACASUN, would that curtail this ambitious group or no?

Well, they keep saying that 4 others will join the AWFC bumping the total to 14. So, no.

Any idea who those 4 might be? Gotta say that if a school is wanting to move up and gathers the resources to do so, there shouldn't be some arbitrary rule saying you can't without an fbs conference invite which might never come.

I hear Chattanooga is one. No clue on the other three.

A poster on the EKU board said Chattanooga, Missouri St and Southern Illinois were the rumor, but again, a rumor.
01-15-2023 03:05 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #228
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
Two of those three are "basketball schools" and are very resistant to "overtures". MVC basketball rivals and tradition. Southern Illinois (as most Ill. schools) is really hurting budget and enrollment wise (5,000 drop since 2016). Chatty has turned down offers more than once. But they would all be good candidates.


IMO. JMHO.
01-15-2023 05:28 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #229
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
Here are some reasons for big time hesitancy by candidates IMHO:

1.) What about the next CFP contract? A cut or end of money for G5 could spell disaster for most of G5 in 2026. Their is NO guarantee of good news. Should find out in 2024 or early '25. Many "think" we will get the same percentage of a larger pie and a "raise". It is too soon to tell and "trusting" P5 is naive. Most fcs candidates say they can't make it w/o CFP money and they are right--smartly they will wait and see.

2.) MONEY, WILL, and DONOR support.
Many schools being considered just don't have the "will power". There has to be pressure put on the administration for such an undertaking. University money, student fees and LOTS of Rich donors are needed to afford the move. Add to this-- the economy and enrollment are not doing very well in some parts of the country at present.

3.) Continued instability and conference realignment-- while this may create openings-- it also makes things unstable. University presidents are a lot more "risk averse" than fans and boosters. They want to know who and what they are joining. Some also may think they'll get a better opportunity for one conference over another by Waiting.

4.) FBS qualifications change-- This could be BIG or small. The problem is we don't know. The football committee will meet this summer and start looking at or even passing new requirements. They have been instructed to "... provide MORE support and investment for athletes in areas like program infrastructure and mental health."
*This is above and beyond (not to be confused with) the new requirements for ALL D1 schools.*


That PROGRAM INFRASTRUCTURE component is to be student athlete (FBS) focused.

They "could" set higher REQUIRED standards for non-fan athletic facilities. Nobody knows how far they will go. It may not amount to much or could be very costly to some schools.

If even some of the listed points deeply concern Presidents and AD's-- then they will wait or move slowly till they get more clarity on the prospects. JMHO.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2023 11:09 PM by TOPSTRAIGHT.)
01-15-2023 11:07 PM
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Spolovilo4EVER Offline
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Post: #230
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-14-2023 12:11 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:44 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:13 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 09:36 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If CUSA goes to 12, as has been speculated, and the 2 additions were from the WACASUN, would that curtail this ambitious group or no?

Well, they keep saying that 4 others will join the AWFC bumping the total to 14. So, no.

Any idea who those 4 might be? Gotta say that if a school is wanting to move up and gathers the resources to do so, there shouldn't be some arbitrary rule saying you can't without an fbs conference invite which might never come.

I hear Chattanooga is one. No clue on the other three.

The rumors I have been hearing are that NDSU and SDSU are two of them and the other 2 vary depending on which rumor you believe. The other 2 schools that have been speculated/rumored come from a wide variety and include: Montana/Montana St/Idaho/Weber St/ Mo St/ Chattanooga/ Youngstown St/Sacramento St/ Portland St. I have no idea which one/two of those schools it would be, but I am fairly confident that the 2 Dakota Schools are in the "4".
01-17-2023 02:52 AM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #231
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-17-2023 02:52 AM)Spolovilo4EVER Wrote:  
(01-14-2023 12:11 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:44 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 02:13 PM)unalions Wrote:  
(01-13-2023 09:36 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  If CUSA goes to 12, as has been speculated, and the 2 additions were from the WACASUN, would that curtail this ambitious group or no?

Well, they keep saying that 4 others will join the AWFC bumping the total to 14. So, no.

Any idea who those 4 might be? Gotta say that if a school is wanting to move up and gathers the resources to do so, there shouldn't be some arbitrary rule saying you can't without an fbs conference invite which might never come.

I hear Chattanooga is one. No clue on the other three.

The rumors I have been hearing are that NDSU and SDSU are two of them and the other 2 vary depending on which rumor you believe. The other 2 schools that have been speculated/rumored come from a wide variety and include: Montana/Montana St/Idaho/Weber St/ Mo St/ Chattanooga/ Youngstown St/Sacramento St/ Portland St. I have no idea which one/two of those schools it would be, but I am fairly confident that the 2 Dakota Schools are in the "4".

I call BALONEY on the previous post.
01-17-2023 05:51 PM
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eku05 Offline
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Post: #232
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
Quote:I call BALONEY on the previous post.

I agree. I'm generally a person who has argued in favor of this plan being plausible, but I'll be floored if Montana, Montana State, NDSU, or SDSU are involved.

I've heard Chattanooga more than once from some credible posters, and I believe they've been involved in discussions to some extent. My personal belief on the Mocs is that they might be interested in getting involved once we get to a point where the plan either has or very obviously will work. I don't think they're jeopardizing any standing with the SoCon before that. I don't blame them.

I haven't heard anything specific about Youngstown, but I've wondered about them myself. They've wanted into the MAC for years, but they've essentially be blackballed by the six other Ohio schools in the league. I don't consider it completely out of the question that they might have a level of interest similar to what I just described Chattanooga might have.

Back to the original post though. I wouldn't rule out that NDSU and SDSU have taken a phone call from the WACSUN, and to that extent the league might floar "discussions" with them to lend the movement some additional credibility/weight...but I don't buy that they are seriously considering jumping on board at this time.
01-18-2023 11:49 AM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #233
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-18-2023 11:49 AM)eku05 Wrote:  I've heard Chattanooga more than once from some credible posters, and I believe they've been involved in discussions to some extent. My personal belief on the Mocs is that they might be interested in getting involved once we get to a point where the plan either has or very obviously will work. I don't think they're jeopardizing any standing with the SoCon before that. I don't blame them.

I know very little about Chattanooga in reality, but every time their name comes up people seem to believe they're content at the FCS level. I'm not sure what level of conversation there has been and how much genuine interest there might be on either side, but I'd find it odd if Chattanooga would prefer that group over a potential CUSA invite that would see them joining MT, WKU, KSU and JSU.

I'm not advocating for expansion, I'm against it really, but if CUSA were going to expand I'd think Chattanooga makes as much sense as anyone and more sense than most.
01-18-2023 12:05 PM
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BearKat_11 Offline
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Post: #234
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-18-2023 12:05 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 11:49 AM)eku05 Wrote:  I've heard Chattanooga more than once from some credible posters, and I believe they've been involved in discussions to some extent. My personal belief on the Mocs is that they might be interested in getting involved once we get to a point where the plan either has or very obviously will work. I don't think they're jeopardizing any standing with the SoCon before that. I don't blame them.

I know very little about Chattanooga in reality, but every time their name comes up people seem to believe they're content at the FCS level. I'm not sure what level of conversation there has been and how much genuine interest there might be on either side, but I'd find it odd if Chattanooga would prefer that group over a potential CUSA invite that would see them joining MT, WKU, KSU and JSU.

I'm not advocating for expansion, I'm against it really, but if CUSA were going to expand I'd think Chattanooga makes as much sense as anyone and more sense than most.

At this point, I'm just looking for a nice fall place to travel to, and I'd be okay with Chattanooga. I don't honestly see any more quality teams, within the footprint, within the budget, etc...etc. Not saying that Sam was the greatest for most looking down, but man would it be nice to get out of flat grounds and pine trees for a change.
01-22-2023 09:20 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #235
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
Doesn't The Woodlands have a section called the Hills in Willis? lol

The only schools in CUSA 4.0 without mountains or at least very large hills nearby are Sam, La Tech & FIU. You will have plenty of travel possibilities. And there are relatively cheap flights to ATL, MIA, BNA & ELP. I wish flights from IAH were cheaper to LYH. But alas ...
01-23-2023 07:32 AM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #236
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
Got this off the NMSU 247 Board:

Quote:Chris Vannini of The Athletic has an update on this topic today. I believe he’s the only journalist in the country who’s solely focused on reporting the G5 football.

Thoughts on the ASUN/WAC “mega-conference” coming soon? — Pete G.

“I can tell you this was a major point of conversation with almost everyone I talked with at the NCAA convention two weeks ago. I’ll have more on this later, but I can share my initial thoughts after talking with Oliver Luck (who is consulting on this venture) and other people around it. First and foremost: This is mostly about creating a football-only FCS conference, as both the ASUN and WAC are low on members, and their waiver for a combined FCS playoff automatic qualifying spot expires in another year or so. This would formally create something like the Missouri Valley Football Conference or Pioneer Football League for the football teams. That makes sense.

The idea of moving up to FBS as a conference … I’m skeptical. Essentially, there isn’t a rule saying they CAN or CAN’T, so everyone will have to figure that out if it reaches that point. I can tell you that nobody among the current G5 conferences is open to giving up a share of College Football Playoff money. Luck is going to visit all 10 schools and do an audit to see how invested and prepared each school is and proceed from there. To me, an FBS move as a conference is unlikely. As people at North Dakota State have told me, if a conference can just move up together, the Bison would just go with the MVFC rather than join a lesser league in order to move.”
01-23-2023 03:17 PM
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jones682 Offline
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Post: #237
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-22-2023 09:20 PM)BearKat_11 Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 12:05 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(01-18-2023 11:49 AM)eku05 Wrote:  I've heard Chattanooga more than once from some credible posters, and I believe they've been involved in discussions to some extent. My personal belief on the Mocs is that they might be interested in getting involved once we get to a point where the plan either has or very obviously will work. I don't think they're jeopardizing any standing with the SoCon before that. I don't blame them.

I know very little about Chattanooga in reality, but every time their name comes up people seem to believe they're content at the FCS level. I'm not sure what level of conversation there has been and how much genuine interest there might be on either side, but I'd find it odd if Chattanooga would prefer that group over a potential CUSA invite that would see them joining MT, WKU, KSU and JSU.

I'm not advocating for expansion, I'm against it really, but if CUSA were going to expand I'd think Chattanooga makes as much sense as anyone and more sense than most.

At this point, I'm just looking for a nice fall place to travel to, and I'd be okay with Chattanooga. I don't honestly see any more quality teams, within the footprint, within the budget, etc...etc. Not saying that Sam was the greatest for most looking down, but man would it be nice to get out of flat grounds and pine trees for a change.

EKU
01-23-2023 03:18 PM
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BearKat_11 Offline
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Post: #238
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-23-2023 07:32 AM)SlyFox Wrote:  Doesn't The Woodlands have a section called the Hills in Willis? lol

The only schools in CUSA 4.0 without mountains or at least very large hills nearby are Sam, La Tech & FIU. You will have plenty of travel possibilities. And there are relatively cheap flights to ATL, MIA, BNA & ELP. I wish flights from IAH were cheaper to LYH. But alas ...

Well it's two separate towns, but I guess there are "hills" in Willis as you head north, but nothing worth knee-slapping for.

Yeah, I was looking at the flights out to Liberty from both Houston airports, and while I don't mind the fare, just seems like there's no easy way there under 5 hours of travel.
01-23-2023 08:36 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #239
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
The Howard Hughes folks have sold that new development hard trying to imply it is in some way other than ownership connected to The Woodlands. It makes me smile every time that I drive by it.

I typically fly American through CLT to get to LYH. Which if you can get a short connection is not bad at all. If I get desperate for a cheap rate, I can sometimes score Southwest out of the Hobby to RDU and drive up in about and hour and a half. There are a slew of airports with a couple of hours of Lynchburg: Richmond, Roanoke, Greensboro even tiny Charlottesville. You can also fly into DCA and take the train down to Lynchburg. I nearly did that for our BYU victory last fall until my work sent me elsewhere. But our matchup with the Kats is a Thursday night affair. That makes for a rather long weekend.
01-24-2023 06:10 AM
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Spolovilo4EVER Offline
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Post: #240
RE: ASUN WAC FBS
(01-23-2023 03:17 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  Got this off the NMSU 247 Board:

Quote:As people at North Dakota State have told me, if a conference can just move up together, the Bison would just go with the MVFC rather than join a lesser league in order to move.”


If you read between the lines that tells you that NDSU is one of the 4 "High Profile" schools the WAC/ASUN are talking too. I assume the "people at NDSU" would be President/AD or at least someone high up in the administration. While they may "rather" move up with the MVFC, it indicates that they would consider the WAC/ASUN if it were their only option. Though with the wheels of realignment about to start tuning again when SDSU and SMU go to PAC. There might be an open MWC spot for the Bison.
02-22-2023 03:37 AM
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