(03-23-2023 11:27 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:19 PM)TealNation Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 09:14 PM)Johnnychimpo Wrote:  Yeah, it would be great exposure to get all SBC institutions in the top 150 of public schools nationally across most rankings but I'm really not sure how we get there mostly being regional schools with mostly in-state kids as opposed to being destination schools like a Florida State or Arizona State.

Coastal is definitely a destination school. To the point that Out of State students out number the In State students.

The "regional" tag is a bit ambiguous in that aspect.

I suspect that is partially due to the lightly regulated environment in SC. VA law requires universities with >25% out-of-state students to not increase that percentage further. That effectively caps JMU at 26.6%. On the extreme high end, William & Mary is capped at 40.2%. Most are at under 25%, so they can increase until they hit 25%.

It's a source of frustration for VA universities, because out-of-state students are more profitable. The state-provided subsidy for in-state students does not make up the difference in revenue between in-state and out-of-state tuition, so VA schools obviously want to max out the number of out-of-state students. Unfortunately, each university is capped (at a different level). Based on JMU's applicant pool, we could go to 60%+ out-of-state and pull in much more revenue, but it's not allowed. Personally, I support bringing in the best students regardless of residency.

I agree. I get that public In State institutions have an obligation to their respective state but I also think that any school that can generate a high volume of out of state applicants should be able to open their pool and benefit from that.

(03-23-2023 11:43 PM)TealNation Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 11:27 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 10:19 PM)TealNation Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 09:14 PM)Johnnychimpo Wrote:  Yeah, it would be great exposure to get all SBC institutions in the top 150 of public schools nationally across most rankings but I'm really not sure how we get there mostly being regional schools with mostly in-state kids as opposed to being destination schools like a Florida State or Arizona State.

Coastal is definitely a destination school. To the point that Out of State students out number the In State students.

The "regional" tag is a bit ambiguous in that aspect.

I suspect that is partially due to the lightly regulated environment in SC. VA law requires universities with >25% out-of-state students to not increase that percentage further. That effectively caps JMU at 26.6%. On the extreme high end, William & Mary is capped at 40.2%. Most are at under 25%, so they can increase until they hit 25%.

It's a source of frustration for VA universities, because out-of-state students are more profitable. The state-provided subsidy for in-state students does not make up the difference in revenue between in-state and out-of-state tuition, so VA schools obviously want to max out the number of out-of-state students. Unfortunately, each university is capped (at a different level). Based on JMU's applicant pool, we could go to 60%+ out-of-state and pull in much more revenue, but it's not allowed. Personally, I support bringing in the best students regardless of residency.

I agree. I get that public In State institutions have an obligation to their respective state but I also think that any school that can generate a high volume of out of state applicants should be able to open their pool and benefit from that.

Tell that to a VA taxpayer who can’t get their sons or daughters into the VA public university they would otherwise qualify for admission.

20 years or so ago JMU enrolled closer to 35% of its undergraduate population from out-of-state, but then the VA Assembly got involved and limited out-of-state enrollment. You can bet VA Representatives and Senators were responding to constituents who were pissed their children were not being admitted to one of the VA publics.

The issue of admitting out-of-state students into graduate programs is an entirely different matter, however, and in this area JMU has recently lifted any restrictions regarding the availability of graduate assistantships. JMU’s graduate enrollment is comparatively small (under 2000) so it’s not posed any problems (yet).

Southern Miss has been R1 since 2019:

https://www.usm.edu/news/2019/release/un...sities.php

One of the best Polymer Science and Engineering program in the entire country.


Further evidence of JMU being the Ole Miss of the Sunbelt in this thread. I expect them to apply for membership into the Ivy Leagues any day now.

(03-24-2023 08:37 AM)PolymerEagle Wrote:  Further evidence of JMU being the Ole Miss of the Sunbelt in this thread. I expect them to apply for membership into the Ivy Leagues any day now.

Yeah nothing screams Ivy like #72 public school (tied with Ole Miss, oddly enough).

(12-07-2022 02:34 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  I'll gladly take having the lowest acceptance rate over having the top ranked EDD or Multicultural Rainforest Studies programs.

By a mile!

With roughly 80% of students traveling 3 hours or more to attend. Small town U here in the most underserved student body in the country. When others complain about the big guys keeping them down I find it funny given our situation. A new arena getting snubbed by the state with three crayon renderings with a person in overalls front and center. We did get to name it after Jack Hill. He was good little south Georgia servant.

(12-07-2022 03:46 PM)banker Wrote:  I hate these rankings because they say very little about how well schools educate 90% of their student body. Most kids aren’t in advanced degree programs, so it’s more important to me if a school can produce someone who can be hired by a company and not be useless for the first six months. Someone that has a base ability to understand a high level discussion and has been taught reasoning and problem solving. None of that is determined by having one super professor working with a group of extraordinary students on some super collider project that got a DOD grant.

That’s why most schools are abandoning the USNews ranking. I know UL has long ago stopped providing data to them, and do not give it much credit. Our focus has been achieving R1 stats, which was a Herculean task for a public school in the state w/o having purple and pizz colors.

lots of schools no longer use the USN rankings

(03-24-2023 10:59 AM)FrankyP Wrote:  

(12-07-2022 03:46 PM)banker Wrote:  I hate these rankings because they say very little about how well schools educate 90% of their student body. Most kids aren’t in advanced degree programs, so it’s more important to me if a school can produce someone who can be hired by a company and not be useless for the first six months. Someone that has a base ability to understand a high level discussion and has been taught reasoning and problem solving. None of that is determined by having one super professor working with a group of extraordinary students on some super collider project that got a DOD grant.

That’s why most schools are abandoning the USNews ranking. I know UL has long ago stopped providing data to them, and do not give it much credit. Our focus has been achieving R1 stats, which was a Herculean task for a public school in the state w/o having purple and pizz colors.

lots of schools no longer use the USN rankings

UL provided data to US News this year and every other year.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/uni...yette-2031

According to the US News methodology page, "U.S. News relies on schools to accurately report their data. Every ranking factor above used data schools reported directly in U.S. News' surveys". In other words, every school in the rankings provided data. Also, I can't find a single notable school that's not included in the Best Colleges Rankings. Some schools have stopped providing data for certain grad programs, but I can't find any notable university that has stopped providing data for the Best Colleges Rankings.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-co...e-rankings

It's fair to point out the many flaws in any rankings system. Those are evident in the wild disparities from one ranking system to another. But let's keep facts straight. So far every school in the SBC still reports data to US News.

I know they are listed in the report, but the link you provided doesn’t prove that they submitted data…or are you saying a school wont even be listed if they don’t provide data?

(03-24-2023 11:45 AM)FrankyP Wrote:  I know they are listed in the report, but the link you provided doesn’t prove that they submitted data…or are you saying a school wont even be listed if they don’t provide data?

Correct. The methodology makes it clear that schools report the data used for the ranking factors. That's why I quoted it above.

US News uses the Common Data Set, which UL provides. The UL website explicitly states that they participate in the Common Data Set program and acknowledges that it's used by US News and others. That feels like an authoritative source. You can pretty much go to any school's website and download their CDS. If a school were to stop completing/publishing the CDS, US News would lack the data needed to rank them.

https://getdata.louisiana.edu/data-sources

(03-24-2023 12:22 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(03-24-2023 11:45 AM)FrankyP Wrote:  I know they are listed in the report, but the link you provided doesn’t prove that they submitted data…or are you saying a school wont even be listed if they don’t provide data?

Correct. The methodology makes it clear that schools report the data used for the ranking factors. That's why I quoted it above.

US News uses the Common Data Set, which UL provides. The UL website explicitly states that they participate in the Common Data Set program and acknowledges that it's used by US News and others. That feels like an authoritative source. You can pretty much go to any school's website and download their CDS. If a school were to stop completing/publishing the CDS, US News would lack the data needed to rank them.

https://getdata.louisiana.edu/data-sources

Ok, I stand corrected. That is not what I was told, but it looks definitive. Thanks

(12-07-2022 01:58 PM)2Buck Wrote:  App isn't a 12-14 just for being regional, they're going to be close to JMU at a national ranking. Research "R" ranking has nothing to do with the quality of education, it's based on the amount invested and number of PhD programs/degrees conferred.

This was JMU's first year nationally ranked and sorry to sound elitist but I'm not happy at all with how low we're ranked. There are schools that have been gaming the ranking system for decades so these are huge subjective swags at quality of education.

As 2nd tier publics in our home states, we are all charged with serving the student population a notch or two below our flagships so we're never going to compete with the Ivies.

There are other measures though. Forbes, for example, ranks with an emphasis on real-world metrics of the education being provided like cost of education, avg grad salaries, grad rates, etc. In their words "an excellent education at a great price, graduate high-earners and propel students to become successful entrepreneurs and influential leaders in their fields"

Below are the schools I could find, feel free to add more. These numbers are among all schools in the nation (public, private, liberal arts, etc).

139 James Madison University
301 Appalachian State University
367 Georgia State University
385 Texas State University
472 Old Dominion University

Just use the Shanghai Rankings, or the National Science Foundation R&D Rankings

Shanghai Rankings:
https://www.shanghairanking.com/

National Science Foundation R&D rankings:
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?...ce&ds=herd

(03-24-2023 11:29 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(12-07-2022 01:58 PM)2Buck Wrote:  App isn't a 12-14 just for being regional, they're going to be close to JMU at a national ranking. Research "R" ranking has nothing to do with the quality of education, it's based on the amount invested and number of PhD programs/degrees conferred.

This was JMU's first year nationally ranked and sorry to sound elitist but I'm not happy at all with how low we're ranked. There are schools that have been gaming the ranking system for decades so these are huge subjective swags at quality of education.

As 2nd tier publics in our home states, we are all charged with serving the student population a notch or two below our flagships so we're never going to compete with the Ivies.

There are other measures though. Forbes, for example, ranks with an emphasis on real-world metrics of the education being provided like cost of education, avg grad salaries, grad rates, etc. In their words "an excellent education at a great price, graduate high-earners and propel students to become successful entrepreneurs and influential leaders in their fields"

Below are the schools I could find, feel free to add more. These numbers are among all schools in the nation (public, private, liberal arts, etc).

139 James Madison University
301 Appalachian State University
367 Georgia State University
385 Texas State University
472 Old Dominion University

Just use the Shanghai Rankings, or the National Science Foundation R&D Rankings

Shanghai Rankings:
https://www.shanghairanking.com/

National Science Foundation R&D rankings:
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?...ce&ds=herd

Had never seen the NSF list, thanks! Interesting angle.

(03-25-2023 12:00 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(03-24-2023 11:29 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(12-07-2022 01:58 PM)2Buck Wrote:  App isn't a 12-14 just for being regional, they're going to be close to JMU at a national ranking. Research "R" ranking has nothing to do with the quality of education, it's based on the amount invested and number of PhD programs/degrees conferred.

This was JMU's first year nationally ranked and sorry to sound elitist but I'm not happy at all with how low we're ranked. There are schools that have been gaming the ranking system for decades so these are huge subjective swags at quality of education.

As 2nd tier publics in our home states, we are all charged with serving the student population a notch or two below our flagships so we're never going to compete with the Ivies.

There are other measures though. Forbes, for example, ranks with an emphasis on real-world metrics of the education being provided like cost of education, avg grad salaries, grad rates, etc. In their words "an excellent education at a great price, graduate high-earners and propel students to become successful entrepreneurs and influential leaders in their fields"

Below are the schools I could find, feel free to add more. These numbers are among all schools in the nation (public, private, liberal arts, etc).

139 James Madison University
301 Appalachian State University
367 Georgia State University
385 Texas State University
472 Old Dominion University

Just use the Shanghai Rankings, or the National Science Foundation R&D Rankings

Shanghai Rankings:
https://www.shanghairanking.com/

National Science Foundation R&D rankings:
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?...ce&ds=herd

Had never seen the NSF list, thanks! Interesting angle.

The NSF list isn't a ranking of university quality like US News or Forbes. It's just a ranking of R&D expenditures.

The Shanghai rankings are sort of interesting for global perspective. I hadn't heard of them, but it makes sense given how many affluent Chinese students study abroad.

Meh. Whatevs. For every Cal or Stanford there’s an Arizona State; for every Duke a Louisville.