The reality is we had a coach-centric program. Said coach left at the worst possible time. We needed momentum to enter the B12 on an upward trajectory. Momentum went poof a couple weeks ago and we are back to a G5 possibly getting in over it's head.
I couldn't possibly disagree with this assessment more. We are a coach making program far more than a coach centric one. This program has won with very different coaches. Uc is bigger than any one coach.
We entered the big east in far worse position and without the history of success to build on. I agree with the idea that the early years in the big 12 COULD be an uphill battle. But I think the program is pretty well positioned to continue to build and be a factor in the not too distance future.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2022 10:21 AM by bearcatmark.)
(12-17-2022 10:21 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: I just don't get the negativity in this fanbase right now. We had a "down" year. We're coming off an insane 5 year run. We've done a jump like this before. Expecting some growing pains is reasonable. Thinking we have some low ceiling in the big 12 is overly pessimistic. This program has time and time again given us reasons to believe in it over the past 2 decades. We may struggle at times the next two year5s but we're way ahead of where we were when we joined the big east. Let's enjoy the ride.
It's a lot easier to be negative and then repent when your team wins than to be positive and have your team lose. If I want the Bearcats to dominate a conference and win 10 games a year, let's just join the MAC.
It's not only that, you can also act like you're some bold truth-teller when you are negative about your own team. Everyone else wants unicorns, but you're the realistic one when you say this program was really just Luke Fickell. Oh and when things turn out much better than you've been predicting, no one brings up how all the negative takes were wrong because that's petty and things are good and who really remembers anyway. But when things go bad, you can be all, I told you so! It's an asymmetry that reflexive contrarians often try to exploit. You see it in political commentary and with economic pundits too.
I'm as disappointed as anyone with yesterday's game (thank God I decided not to go) but won't overreact to one meaningless game after 24 hrs to cool down. I Agee with Mark that we have a lot going for our program, a program that has persevered through regular coaching turnover the last 2 decades. We are not a depleted roster, we've got some areas to shore up but a lot can change with a competent QB under center. When we saw TCU at the end of last season they were getting beat by 5 TDs against a .500 Iowa State team. Things can change from year to year and I won't use the UL game as a harbinger of what to expect next season with a full staff.
Since 2000 (Included conferences title tie years as well)
1) 8 conference titles in 3 different conferences
- 1 in Conference USA
- 4 in the Big East
- 3 in the American
2) 8 Conference titles through 6 different coaches (Mark Dantonio never got one)
- 1 by Rick Minter
- 2 by Brian Kelly
- 2 by Butch Jones
- 1 by Tommy Tuberville
- 2 by Luke Fickell
This is far from a strictly coaches driven program. UC has built a culture that is known since 2000. I do foresee a transition to Big 12 where next year I’ll take anything over 6 or more wins as a solid first year. Big 12 this year was a darn good conference (2nd by most computers) and it is clear to me we need to get our O line at that type of level. Also, see the game against Alabama last year or against Georgia once James Hudson goes out for further proof of our O Line issues.
The Bearcats will be fine and eventually prevail as they always do! The growth period will be fun to watch for me and once we prevail it will feel like ‘09 or ‘21 all over again and maybe even on steroids as winning or even being second in Big 12 is likely a sure playoff spot and we will know we can actually give an elite team/program like ‘09 Gators or ‘21 Bama a game.
Go Bearcats!
Edit: Only thing I’m worried about is transfer portal and NIL. I absolutely hate everything about the transfer portal and at the moment NIL but will wait to see how they play out when they both get more settled in and likely some rules in place regarding NIL after some kids get F’d out of their $
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2022 01:07 PM by natibeast2.0.)
The portal has damaged continuity in everybody’s “program.” The players are now free agents and can come and go as they please. Maybe NIL deals can be structured to combat this in the form of retention bonuses for those who complete their eligibility.
(12-18-2022 11:19 AM)Former Lurker Wrote: The portal has damaged continuity in everybody’s “program.” The players are now free agents and can come and go as they please. Maybe NIL deals can be structured to combat this in the form of retention bonuses for those who complete their eligibility.
Agreed. Both are a complete free for all at the moment. Things will eventually change whether it be contracts kids sign or whatever but they are both a joke at the moment and neither being used as they are intended for the vast majority of kids.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2022 11:27 AM by natibeast2.0.)
Never in my life have I witnessed such travesty. This was corruption from the beginning. Cincinnati was cheated and I demand accountability. Louisville is not a rightful winner and I will not rest until there's comeuppance.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2022 02:19 PM by Tom Campusano.)
The reality is we had a coach-centric program. Said coach left at the worst possible time. We needed momentum to enter the B12 on an upward trajectory. Momentum went poof a couple weeks ago and we are back to a G5 possibly getting in over it's head.
I couldn't possibly disagree with this assessment more. We are a coach making program far more than a coach centric one. This program has won with very different coaches. Uc is bigger than any one coach.
We entered the big east in far worse position and without the history of success to build on. I agree with the idea that the early years in the big 12 COULD be an uphill battle. But I think the program is pretty well positioned to continue to build and be a factor in the not too distance future.
Sorry.. Coach-centric.
Most successful programs outside of the 5-8 bluest of the blue bloods are.
The reality is we had a coach-centric program. Said coach left at the worst possible time. We needed momentum to enter the B12 on an upward trajectory. Momentum went poof a couple weeks ago and we are back to a G5 possibly getting in over it's head.
I couldn't possibly disagree with this assessment more. We are a coach making program far more than a coach centric one. This program has won with very different coaches. Uc is bigger than any one coach.
We entered the big east in far worse position and without the history of success to build on. I agree with the idea that the early years in the big 12 COULD be an uphill battle. But I think the program is pretty well positioned to continue to build and be a factor in the not too distance future.
Sorry.. Coach-centric.
Most successful programs outside of the 5-8 bluest of the blue bloods are.
Well obviously the HC is extremely important and why schools throw 10+ million at guys, but if it doesn’t matter for the blue bloods then please explain Texas, Michigan (until last year), USC since 2010.
A HC matters for everyone including Michigan (the all time winningest program), Notre Dame, Alabama, and Ohio State.
UC has a very respectable program over the last 22 years. Transition to Big 12 time and we’ll find out if Satt can get the job done or not. Would have been nice to get the Keg back but time to move on.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2022 02:58 PM by natibeast2.0.)
I'm not going to freak out about the trajectory of the program when CSS has been on the job for 2 weeks. As I've stated before, I like the hire MUCH more than if it would have been a MAC guy. Fick did a lot of good here, but there were things about him I did not like. I won't go into it now, because he's gone and it makes no difference. I have a good feeling about CSS. I think he's going to surprise some folks with some recruits and with some on field success. Give him some time. It's not even early signing day yet for Christ sake.
For those crying about recruits decommitting, quit ignoring the fact that this is happening to almost every school across the country, and most of them aren't even going through a coaching change. OSU just lost the #1 QB in the country for crying out loud.
For everyone scared of losing in the Big 12, relax. Have some faith. We may not win right away, but we'll get there. We probably won't dominate like we did in the AAC, but we'll be competitive. There won't be a dominate team in the Big 12 like the Big 10 (now that Okla is gone). TCU, Baylor, KSU, OSU have all been champions. Kansas was right there. I see the parody as a good thing. IMO CSS believes he can win in the Big 12. He wouldn't have left a job in the cushy ACC for a modest raise if he didn't. Don't give me the crap about him getting a lifeline. I don't believe it just because some butt hurt fans say so. He had UofL on the rise. Increased his win total in 3 straight years, and had a Top 20 class coming in. You could argue UofL was a **** show internally, but if it were that bad, Brohm wouldn't have left Purdue to coach there.
People are saying this is bad timing. I kind of disagree. It may be from the standpoint of entering the Big 12 with a new coach, but sit and think of the alternative if we WEREN'T going into the Big 12. Could you imagine going through another coaching change in the AAC? All hope of remaining a National player would be lost. We truly would be considered a stepping stone program.
Count me in as one of the people who prefer to play better competition. I've always HATED the weak AAC. In football and basketball. It was ok to win a lot of games and be conf champions, but the thought was always in the back of the mind of "how good are we, really?". Most of the time the answer was "not as good as we think". It seemed to always show when it came time to step up in competition. (ie. losing to a depleted UGA team in the Peach bowl, getting blown out by Bama in football and the early flame outs in the NCAA tourney in basketball)
Sorry for the Sunday rant, but that is my long winded way of saying I am excited about the future.
(12-18-2022 01:10 PM)Cat-Man Wrote: I'm not going to freak out about the trajectory of the program when CSS has been on the job for 2 weeks. As I've stated before, I like the hire MUCH more than if it would have been a MAC guy. Fick did a lot of good here, but there were things about him I did not like. I won't go into it now, because he's gone and it makes no difference. I have a good feeling about CSS. I think he's going to surprise some folks with some recruits and with some on field success. Give him some time. It's not even early signing day yet for Christ sake.
For those crying about recruits decommitting, quit ignoring the fact that this is happening to almost every school across the country, and most of them aren't even going through a coaching change. OSU just lost the #1 QB in the country for crying out loud.
For everyone scared of losing in the Big 12, relax. Have some faith. We may not win right away, but we'll get there. We probably won't dominate like we did in the AAC, but we'll be competitive. There won't be a dominate team in the Big 12 like the Big 10 (now that Okla is gone). TCU, Baylor, KSU, OSU have all been champions. Kansas was right there. I see the parody as a good thing. IMO CSS believes he can win in the Big 12. He wouldn't have left a job in the cushy ACC for a modest raise if he didn't. Don't give me the crap about him getting a lifeline. I don't believe it just because some butt hurt fans say so. He had UofL on the rise. Increased his win total in 3 straight years, and had a Top 20 class coming in. You could argue UofL was a **** show internally, but if it were that bad, Brohm wouldn't have left Purdue to coach there.
People are saying this is bad timing. I kind of disagree. It may be from the standpoint of entering the Big 12 with a new coach, but sit and think of the alternative if we WEREN'T going into the Big 12. Could you imagine going through another coaching change in the AAC? All hope of remaining a National player would be lost. We truly would be considered a stepping stone program.
Count me in as one of the people who prefer to play better competition. I've always HATED the weak AAC. In football and basketball. It was ok to win a lot of games and be conf champions, but the thought was always in the back of the mind of "how good are we, really?". Most of the time the answer was "not as good as we think". It seemed to always show when it came time to step up in competition. (ie. losing to a depleted UGA team in the Peach bowl, getting blown out by Bama in football and the early flame outs in the NCAA tourney in basketball)
Sorry for the Sunday rant, but that is my long winded way of saying I am excited about the future.
Bolded, well said. As others have suggested in this thread, we all want to win, always. Yesterday's game result has little to do with the future trajectory of this program under a new coaching staff. I liked what I saw of Louisville on defense and with their backup QB they found a way to get the job done, rushing effectively too. Those were Satterfield's guys and he'll get even more for a B12 program in the recruiting hotbed of Ohio.
Taking a step back, what we all wished and hoped for during most of the past decade--a chance to compete at the highest (P5) level is about to become reality. And before the first conference game is even played, some are suggesting our football and basketball programs are moribund. UC has found a way in every conference and will now have resources to compete as never before.
Another advantage? Media quotes we no longer have to hear:
- AAC football denigrated as mid-major on national telecasts;
- AAC basketball erroneously labeled "mid-major" along with all non-P5 basketball;
- UC vs. Houston on ABC primetime last December, "UC is winning one for all the SMALL schools if they reach the CFP."
Enough of the Cinderella narrative--Cincinnati's better than that. Let's watch UC build football and basketball programs now that will be respected for competing, and winning, at the highest level.
Unless we find an offense, I find a 6 win season next year as optimistic. I’ve downwardly adjusted to 3-4 wins unless there are new developments. With that said, I’m not concerned with the long term outlook.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2022 10:51 PM by BearcatsUC.)
(12-18-2022 01:10 PM)Cat-Man Wrote: I'm not going to freak out about the trajectory of the program when CSS has been on the job for 2 weeks. As I've stated before, I like the hire MUCH more than if it would have been a MAC guy. Fick did a lot of good here, but there were things about him I did not like. I won't go into it now, because he's gone and it makes no difference. I have a good feeling about CSS. I think he's going to surprise some folks with some recruits and with some on field success. Give him some time. It's not even early signing day yet for Christ sake.
For those crying about recruits decommitting, quit ignoring the fact that this is happening to almost every school across the country, and most of them aren't even going through a coaching change. OSU just lost the #1 QB in the country for crying out loud.
For everyone scared of losing in the Big 12, relax. Have some faith. We may not win right away, but we'll get there. We probably won't dominate like we did in the AAC, but we'll be competitive. There won't be a dominate team in the Big 12 like the Big 10 (now that Okla is gone). TCU, Baylor, KSU, OSU have all been champions. Kansas was right there. I see the parody as a good thing. IMO CSS believes he can win in the Big 12. He wouldn't have left a job in the cushy ACC for a modest raise if he didn't. Don't give me the crap about him getting a lifeline. I don't believe it just because some butt hurt fans say so. He had UofL on the rise. Increased his win total in 3 straight years, and had a Top 20 class coming in. You could argue UofL was a **** show internally, but if it were that bad, Brohm wouldn't have left Purdue to coach there.
People are saying this is bad timing. I kind of disagree. It may be from the standpoint of entering the Big 12 with a new coach, but sit and think of the alternative if we WEREN'T going into the Big 12. Could you imagine going through another coaching change in the AAC? All hope of remaining a National player would be lost. We truly would be considered a stepping stone program.
Count me in as one of the people who prefer to play better competition. I've always HATED the weak AAC. In football and basketball. It was ok to win a lot of games and be conf champions, but the thought was always in the back of the mind of "how good are we, really?". Most of the time the answer was "not as good as we think". It seemed to always show when it came time to step up in competition. (ie. losing to a depleted UGA team in the Peach bowl, getting blown out by Bama in football and the early flame outs in the NCAA tourney in basketball)
Sorry for the Sunday rant, but that is my long winded way of saying I am excited about the future.
Bolded, well said. As others have suggested in this thread, we all want to win, always. Yesterday's game result has little to do with the future trajectory of this program under a new coaching staff. I liked what I saw of Louisville on defense and with their backup QB they found a way to get the job done, rushing effectively too. Those were Satterfield's guys and he'll get even more for a B12 program in the recruiting hotbed of Ohio.
Taking a step back, what we all wished and hoped for during most of the past decade--a chance to compete at the highest (P5) level is about to become reality. And before the first conference game is even played, some are suggesting our football and basketball programs are moribund. UC has found a way in every conference and will now have resources to compete as never before.
Another advantage? Media quotes we no longer have to hear:
- AAC football denigrated as mid-major on national telecasts;
- AAC basketball erroneously labeled "mid-major" along with all non-P5 basketball;
- UC vs. Houston on ABC primetime last December, "UC is winning one for all the SMALL schools if they reach the CFP."
Enough of the Cinderella narrative--Cincinnati's better than that. Let's watch UC build football and basketball programs now that will be respected for competing, and winning, at the highest level.
We never got the "Cinderella" tag. Seriously. I thought that we'd get the "Cinderella Treatment" in 2010 after we won the BE Championship and then Brian Kelly left before the Sugar Bowl and we had to face off against the Meyer-Tebow Florida Juggernaut. Nope.
We didn't get it last year either. Yeah, we got the "First 'g5' Team" tag, but nobody had us tabbed as "the Cinderella Story" treatment.
TCU and Utah got "Cinderella" treatment when they "Busted the BCS." Boise State...yeah.
But we never did. I never could really figure out why.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2022 08:04 PM by BearcatJerry.)
(12-18-2022 01:10 PM)Cat-Man Wrote: I'm not going to freak out about the trajectory of the program when CSS has been on the job for 2 weeks. As I've stated before, I like the hire MUCH more than if it would have been a MAC guy. Fick did a lot of good here, but there were things about him I did not like. I won't go into it now, because he's gone and it makes no difference. I have a good feeling about CSS. I think he's going to surprise some folks with some recruits and with some on field success. Give him some time. It's not even early signing day yet for Christ sake.
For those crying about recruits decommitting, quit ignoring the fact that this is happening to almost every school across the country, and most of them aren't even going through a coaching change. OSU just lost the #1 QB in the country for crying out loud.
For everyone scared of losing in the Big 12, relax. Have some faith. We may not win right away, but we'll get there. We probably won't dominate like we did in the AAC, but we'll be competitive. There won't be a dominate team in the Big 12 like the Big 10 (now that Okla is gone). TCU, Baylor, KSU, OSU have all been champions. Kansas was right there. I see the parody as a good thing. IMO CSS believes he can win in the Big 12. He wouldn't have left a job in the cushy ACC for a modest raise if he didn't. Don't give me the crap about him getting a lifeline. I don't believe it just because some butt hurt fans say so. He had UofL on the rise. Increased his win total in 3 straight years, and had a Top 20 class coming in. You could argue UofL was a **** show internally, but if it were that bad, Brohm wouldn't have left Purdue to coach there.
People are saying this is bad timing. I kind of disagree. It may be from the standpoint of entering the Big 12 with a new coach, but sit and think of the alternative if we WEREN'T going into the Big 12. Could you imagine going through another coaching change in the AAC? All hope of remaining a National player would be lost. We truly would be considered a stepping stone program.
Count me in as one of the people who prefer to play better competition. I've always HATED the weak AAC. In football and basketball. It was ok to win a lot of games and be conf champions, but the thought was always in the back of the mind of "how good are we, really?". Most of the time the answer was "not as good as we think". It seemed to always show when it came time to step up in competition. (ie. losing to a depleted UGA team in the Peach bowl, getting blown out by Bama in football and the early flame outs in the NCAA tourney in basketball)
Sorry for the Sunday rant, but that is my long winded way of saying I am excited about the future.
Bolded, well said. As others have suggested in this thread, we all want to win, always. Yesterday's game result has little to do with the future trajectory of this program under a new coaching staff. I liked what I saw of Louisville on defense and with their backup QB they found a way to get the job done, rushing effectively too. Those were Satterfield's guys and he'll get even more for a B12 program in the recruiting hotbed of Ohio.
Taking a step back, what we all wished and hoped for during most of the past decade--a chance to compete at the highest (P5) level is about to become reality. And before the first conference game is even played, some are suggesting our football and basketball programs are moribund. UC has found a way in every conference and will now have resources to compete as never before.
Another advantage? Media quotes we no longer have to hear:
- AAC football denigrated as mid-major on national telecasts;
- AAC basketball erroneously labeled "mid-major" along with all non-P5 basketball;
- UC vs. Houston on ABC primetime last December, "UC is winning one for all the SMALL schools if they reach the CFP."
Enough of the Cinderella narrative--Cincinnati's better than that. Let's watch UC build football and basketball programs now that will be respected for competing, and winning, at the highest level.
We never got the "Cinderella" tag. Seriously. I thought that we'd get the "Cinderella Treatment" in 2010 after we won the BE Championship and then Brian Kelly left before the Sugar Bowl and we had to face off against the Meyer-Tebow Florida Juggernaut. Nope.
We didn't get it last year either. Yeah, we got the "First 'g5' Team" tag, but nobody had us tabbed as "the Cinderella Story" treatment.
TCU and Utah got "Cinderella" treatment when they "Busted the BCS." Boise State...yeah.
But we never did. I never could really figure out why.
Agree we never got the love Cinderella schools usually get (although OKI is right those things were said). I’ve always chalked it up to long held biases held by many against UC, Louisville, Memphis and Houston as so-called “City Schools” (ever notice nobody calls Boise State, Fresno State or San Diego State a city school?).
/
Fenway Wasbi bowl.. Cincinnati vs Louisville
