The unofficial online home for fans of the UAB Blazers. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

When looking at the entire situation objectively, and knowing the minds of the system leadership about “fiscul rusponsuhbillutee,” let’s be honest about some things:

1) UAB athletics was run like a mom and pop store for 3 decades.
2) the cost of doing business has exploded in the last 15 years.
3) the revenue gap between haves and have nots has never been bigger
4) UAB facilities were just awful when MI arrived and other than the football stadium there had been very few reasonable plans put forward to fix that.
5) The general approach at UAB had been to try to slide things through the back or side door to get things done. That didn’t help relations and also meant you were never really addressing big needs but rather just putting band aids on them.

We can complain about how some other schools do things differently but since 2014 has the board said no to anything in which Mark and the admin presented a sound plan to pay for it? The answer is no. They have let us strategically improve the program to the point that it goes into the American with facilities as good as anyone in our peer group while also not being overleveraged with debt.

Now why is this important? Because we are in both a weak economy, took a financial hit from a pandemic, there are major transformations happening on the university side that athletics are not insulated from and college athletics may look completely different in just a few years. I think we may end up being very happy to have been a bit more disciplined compared to some peers for whom market changes could be a lot more draconian. I think we may seem some pretty big market corrections at the g5 level on things like coaches salaries, facilities and things like that.

So we also have to ask ourselves:

1) are we generating significant more ticket revenue in the new stadium? Are we near projections?
2) has the donor group substantially increased?
3) did people fulfill their pledges? How many renewed them?

I think I know the answers to those questions and I guarantee Mark Ingram does, and going and asking for a bunch more money might be met with just a bit of skepticism.

It isn’t preaching to the choir to say that if we want to go “next level” we have to continue to invest. Except now we don’t have to invest so much in brick and mortar. We can invest in QBs and LBs and PGs.

(12-03-2022 11:31 AM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  So we also have to ask ourselves:

1) are we generating significant more ticket revenue in the new stadium? Are we near projections?
2) has the donor group substantially increased?
3) did people fulfill their pledges? How many renewed them?

I think I know the answers to those questions and I guarantee Mark Ingram does, and going and asking for a bunch more money might be met with just a bit of skepticism.

It isn’t preaching to the choir to say that if we want to go “next level” we have to continue to invest. Except now we don’t have to invest so much in brick and mortar. We can invest in QBs and LBs and PGs.

Even after winning championships and bowl games, the answer to your questions is NO. So what is going to motivate fans to step up as you think they should? Hiring Trent Dilfer? Again, NO. UAB has to give people more of a reason to get excited. They have to create excitement and interest in the program so as to grow the fan base. That will only happen with big wins, getting ranked, and being nationally relevant. It's not the fans that haven't done enough, it's the team.

The responsibility (and hence the blame) lies with the people who cash the checks and spend the $ not with those who write them. It's insulting to blame fans when they have the least control and say in the program.

No, fans have the most control they ever have had and there is nothing insulting about it. NIL is the way.

I agree with your opinions here in the old world. The new world is that the fastest way to grow the fan base for more revenue by delivering the wins is to put about 10 McBrides on the field and 4 Jelly Walkers on the court.

(12-03-2022 11:31 AM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  there are major transformations happening on the university side that athletics are not insulated from and college athletics may look completely different in just a few years.

This deserves more discussion.

Demographics and economics are radically changing in terms of universities in general, not just UAB. UAB and many of its peers were built to accommodate the Baby Boom generation. Gen Z is sending fewer children to college. University capacity is overbuilt.

The Trustees reacted to this by trying to exploit an anomaly in the above: some fairly wealthy states (Texas, Illinois, New Jersey are the big ones) actually export college students. They have more qualified children than they have slots, public and private. And so they built the Tuscaloosa campus to import these students and their out-of-state fees, with a fairly easy curriculum, rock-climbing walls and the world's largest Starbucks. They overbuilt; that campus is now a financial burden.

Added to that was a move to push student debt as though it were student aid, and encourage some who should never have attended college to do so and borrow money for out-of-state tuition. This lurking underground coal-fire is about to burst onto the surface, and it's not driven (as popular memery would have it) by degrees in poetry and interpretive dance. The world needs dancers and poets just like it does engineers and accountants, else we become a gray world of mindless drones.

No, the debt bomb exists in those who went for a little while, just long enough to rack up debt, and emerged without a degree at all. They have the worst of both sides: no degree or experience but plenty of debt. The university cares not about this, because they got paid (after all, loan money goes directly to the university, who takes their cut (and "origination fee") first before disbursing the remainder).

But overall, there are only so many surplus children to exploit, and only so much more added revenue that can be squeezed out of loan-scam. Meanwhile, faculty are replaced by adjuncts in an effort to lower things on the cost end, but this is more than matched by administrative bloat while quality declines. Add in the loss of (full-freight) foreign grad students from the Middle East and China; many of these were paid for by their governments and thus simply golden in financial terms.

We are approaching the peak of all this.

Universities will die over the next 20 years. Some already have, but it's the marginal ones so far, the 200-student private Mennonite schools in Eatsadonk, Kansas. Higher education is a bubble, and it will burst. Not may. Will.

The old ways are dying. UAB must adapt or die.

(12-03-2022 11:54 AM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  No, fans have the most control they ever have had and there is nothing insulting about it. NIL is the way.

I agree with your opinions here in the old world. The new world is that the fastest way to grow the fan base for more revenue by delivering the wins is to put about 10 McBrides on the field and 4 Jelly Walkers on the court.

I respect your opinions but I'll have to agree to disagree on the sequence. I don't see that $ coming forward until UAB has produced more on the court and on the field.

(12-03-2022 12:03 PM)BlazerGreen Wrote:  

(12-03-2022 11:54 AM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  No, fans have the most control they ever have had and there is nothing insulting about it. NIL is the way.

I agree with your opinions here in the old world. The new world is that the fastest way to grow the fan base for more revenue by delivering the wins is to put about 10 McBrides on the field and 4 Jelly Walkers on the court.

I respect you opinions but I'll have to agree to disagree on the sequence. I don't see that $ coming forward until UAB has produced more on the court and on the field.

I hear you and that is why it has got to come from us until we get there. We have a window to be really impactful but have to rally around it like we did with saving the program. That is what I mean. And I don’t mean to be insulting or preaching to the choir about it — sorry if it comes off that way. We have a window here to lift the program in a way the old power structure cannot limit because it is outside of their approval.

(12-03-2022 12:12 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  

(12-03-2022 12:03 PM)BlazerGreen Wrote:  

(12-03-2022 11:54 AM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  No, fans have the most control they ever have had and there is nothing insulting about it. NIL is the way.

I agree with your opinions here in the old world. The new world is that the fastest way to grow the fan base for more revenue by delivering the wins is to put about 10 McBrides on the field and 4 Jelly Walkers on the court.

I respect you opinions but I'll have to agree to disagree on the sequence. I don't see that $ coming forward until UAB has produced more on the court and on the field.

I hear you and that is why it has got to come from us until we get there. We have a window to be really impactful but have to rally around it like we did with saving the program. That is what I mean. And I don’t mean to be insulting or preaching to the choir about it — sorry if it comes off that way. We have a window here to lift the program in a way the old power structure cannot limit because it is outside of their approval.

Yeah but youre going to have to expand beyond this current donor base and that starts with putting an exciting and quality product together that people are going to want to invest in. We've started to do that in basketball and if we can sustain it this time I think we will start to see the benefits. The football program came back to life, literally and figuratively, with the Return but the product has gone stale. Ingram made a big gamble by hiring Dilfer in an attempt to bring excitement and expand the UAB fàn base. I hate to keep repeating this phrase, but hopefully it pays off.

And the way to put that product on the field is through NIL support. WE have to do that.

(12-03-2022 12:12 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  We have a window here to lift the program in a way the old power structure cannot limit because it is outside of their approval.

By definition, NIL is outside revenue. Players, to date, don't share in what they generate for their universities. But they can collect money for appearances in State Farm adverts or on jelly-jar t-shirts.

What you appear to be advocating is a saner version of the Texas A&M mass-purchase of top football recruits via $25 million worth of NIL funds raised among the big cigars.

Combined with a charismatic figurehead representing the program, that could be devastatingly effective. Aggie overspent, as the results show. But I don't know that you even need 10 Debos to make an impact.

This is a very short-term phenomenon just by its nature. If UAB is going to exploit this opportunity, it has to be now.

I think all of us are disgusted we weren't playing in the CUSA title game yesterday. I just don't see what role UAB fans or even the NIL played in that happening. Based on our games against UTSA and NT we obviously had the talent to be there. UAB fans didn't cause the team to lose almost every road game. We didn't call a play, miss a tackle, or burn a single timeout. We also didn't schedule a single OOC game.

I get upset when I read UAB fans being blamed or held responsible for our programs struggles. No fan base in America has been **** on more or played a bigger role in the literal existence of their program. Long time fans can and do help as much as they can but ultimately it isn't up to us whether our program "ascends" or not. It's definitely not up to the average joe fan that posts on BlazerTalk. It's up to the people who make big $ and the guys that get free education (and more) for coaching and playing football.

What I am alluding to is perfectly legal within NCAA rules. It is free enterprise and the universities have no control over the exercise of free market participation beyond compliance with those NCAA guidelines. They also do not, and cannot, control this pot of money or determine how it is spent.

The most ambitious schools have now come to recognize this as a win-win for the institutions, the athletes and the fans and are doing all they can within those guidelines to encourage participation and growth. In the power 5, that is pretty much everybody now. In the G5, schools like SMU, Memphis, Boise State, USF, UTSA are being *very* aggressive.

It is the new world and it is not going away.

I have been doing a lot of research on how these collectives work. I find it fascinating and probably have spent too much free time on it but it is one of the biggest changes in college sports in our lifetimes and there are so many headlines to read. Are there some dirty ones? Sure, but most seem to be operating within the lines as defined.

These are:

1) it cannot be a recruiting inducement. In other words, come here and get x. Can’t do that. What you can do, however, is highlight the support in place and how current players participate. Does that happen? Sure. But that is against the rules just like always and I expect some schools to get busted for that soon.

2) activity must be quid pro quo. In other words, nil deals must be attached to a documentable set of deliverables that must be fulfilled by the athlete.

3) the schools cannot directly participate in making the deals or cause the payment to take place. They can educate and direct booster and businesses on where to go to support student-athletes. The coaches and staff now can actively participate in this promotion or in promoting the athletes’ NIL endeavors.

4) the individual schools can determine other conduct such as whether university marks and facilities can be used, etc. Some schools allow this and some don’t. State laws can influence those policies. They also can in some cases place limits on categories (alcohol, cannabis, porn) or certain brands that conflict with university contracts. (if your school is Nike, you can’t wear a competing brand in competition, for example).

Nil activity can include a lot more than just things like commercial endorsements. It can apply to things coaches have always done like paid media and public appearances, merchandise, etc.
It can apply to appearances, coaching sessions, camp participation, starting your own business while still in college and using your athletic fame to promote it. It includes a ton of things that regular students can do that athletes could not just because they were athletes. If you want to pay Jelly Walker to come make ballon animals at your kids’ birthday party, you can lol.

Where the collectives come in is in raising money and finding sponsors. They act as a third-party agency, essentially, which actually is needed under the new guidelines because the school’s role is limited to education, compliance and promotion of how to participate.

There seem to be several approaches to collectives. Some are classified as charities. This is noble and I am seeing some very cool things being done like players doing Thanksgiving food banks and driving awareness to fundraising. But that also could be sticky — the IRS is a stickler for things like tax fraud so I personally probably wouldn’t go that route.

The UAB collectives, I think, are more the other model where the athletes are essentially employees of the collective and are paid a set salary for a set of deliverables such as appearances, autographed, product endorsements, camps, etc. The collectives fund this through donations, memberships which include goods and services in exchange to the funds, and more traditional business deals in whick players are then matched with opportunities. I do not know but I am going to guess that things like players appearing at restaurants and making media appearances under a sponsor fall into these categories.

Players are also free to do their own things outside of the collectives. Jelly with Barstool would be an example.

Players are required to report all this data, including any in-kind goods and services they receive. Think about it — kid goes home to see his parents and gets himself free lunch for the family in exchange for posting a shout out on Instagram. That is NIL. They also have to make sure they are handling their taxes the right way.

I read somewhere that the expected going raise for a power 5 collective is gonna to be $10 million per year. I know there are g5 schools like SMU trying to raise $5 million+ per year.

Somebody in the G5 is going to nail this and win a CFP game and transform their program. Somebody in the G5 is going to become Gonzaga within one or two recruiting classes. Somebody in the G5 who is good now is going to drag their feet and lose their status.

We are kidding ourselves if we think kids like Jelly Walker and Eric Gaines will show up here or kids like McBride stay here without NIL support. At same time, leaning into it could get kids like that some elite help.

(12-03-2022 12:56 PM)BlazerGreen Wrote:  I think all of us are disgusted we weren't playing in the CUSA title game yesterday. I just don't see what role UAB fans or even the NIL played in that happening. Based on our games against UTSA and NT we obviously had the talent to be there. UAB fans didn't cause the team to lose almost every road game. We didn't call a play, miss a tackle, or burn a single timeout. We also didn't schedule a single OOC game.

I get upset when I read UAB fans being blamed or held responsible for our programs struggles. No fan base in America has been **** on more or played a bigger role in the literal existence of their program. Long time fans can and do help as much as they can but ultimately it isn't up to us whether our program "ascends" or not. It's definitely not up to the average joe fan that posts on BlazerTalk. It's up to the people who make big $ and the guys that get free education (and more) for coaching and playing football.

Not blaming UAB fans. Saying what needs to happen next if we want to elevate from where we are. Every one of us who cares needs to increase our support, whatever that is to us individually. That can be money or not. It might be time. It might be going to games and talking on this board. It might be making sure to like players’ posts or buy what they are pitching. It might be nothing more than being quiet and not stirring up negativity and self-harming conspiracy crap at a crucial time. Each person would have to make their own determination as to what that is for them. Just saying we wont get to where we want to get if we, the people who care the most, don’t own it. Now there is a way we can that isn’t controlled by you know who. They can’t even participate.

Bingo

(12-03-2022 01:25 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  Not blaming UAB fans. Saying what needs to happen next if we want to elevate from where we are. Every one of us who cares needs to increase our support, whatever that is to us individually. That can be money or not. It might be time. It might be going to games and talking on this board. It might be making sure to like players’ posts or buy what they are pitching. It might be nothing more than being quiet and not stirring up negativity and self-harming conspiracy crap at a crucial time. Each person would have to make their own determination as to what that is for them. Just saying we wont get to where we want to get if we, the people who care the most, don’t own it. Now there is a way we can that isn’t controlled by you know who. They can’t even participate.

I guess we'll just have to see if that actually happens. Don't get your hopes up until this program becomes nationally relevant. The group of about 10-15,000 die hard fans aren't going to make it happen by themselves. Speeches and sermons damn sure won't, by anyone here or by Watts/Ingram/Dilfer. As TD said, the proof is in the pudding.

(12-03-2022 01:25 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  Saying what needs to happen next if we want to elevate from where we are. Every one of us who cares needs to increase our support, whatever that is to us individually. That can be money or not. It might be time. It might be going to games and talking on this board. It might be making sure to like players’ posts or buy what they are pitching. It might be nothing more than being quiet and not stirring up negativity and self-harming conspiracy crap at a crucial time. Each person would have to make their own determination as to what that is for them. Just saying we wont get to where we want to get if we, the people who care the most, don’t own it. Now there is a way we can that isn’t controlled by you know who. They can’t even participate.

There is an attitude (both Gene and Murry Bartow used to talk about it) that holds that nothing good can come out of Birmingham, Alabama. A deep-seated insecurity built on too many failures, too many broken promises. You see it in local media (elevating D-List celebrities to godlike status if they attended kindergarten here), entertainment (any song, whatever genre, with "Birmingham" in the lyrics goes to heavy rotation) and so on. A desperate need for validation.

We have to break that. We did it to restore football (just do some searches to see the Eeyore reactions on December 3rd 2014 on this board). We can do that again.

It's okay to be excited. Trent Dilfer is an exciting hire. Bill Clark was not exciting, but he was what we needed in that time and place.

Excitement matters, even on a board like Blazertalk. It's infectious. It leads to good things. Dueling Dragon (disclosure: we know one another in real, professional life) has laid out a very achievable pathway by which we - you and I - can make a difference.

It's okay to be excited. Dilfer will take care of his part, and we can take care of ours. We can make this happen.

Great things are going to happen. I can feel it, and when I feel it, I am never wrong.

(12-03-2022 03:27 PM)58-56 Wrote:  Excitement matters, even on a board like Blazertalk. It's infectious. It leads to good things. Dueling Dragon (disclosure: we know one another in real, professional life) has laid out a very achievable pathway by which we - you and I - can make a difference.

Based on both of your tendencies for long-winded pablum, I would venture a guess of ex-Kaleidoscope "journalists".

It used to be that the only people who could make a difference using the power of their wallet was the big boosters. Often it was on the sly, and once in a while they got their school put on probation.

Now any fan of any team can pitch in whatever they care to, can spare. Enough people chipping in adds up.

I hear what you're saying about a better product selling tickets and encouraging those donations, and you're not wrong. There is still a lot of truth in the old saw about how it takes money to make money. Donating to the NIL before things get better is how you prime the pump.


There is a helluva lot of meat on the bones of DD and 58-56's posts on this page. It would not hurt to read them again. They're accurate.

(12-03-2022 04:19 PM)BlazerGreen Wrote:  

(12-03-2022 03:27 PM)58-56 Wrote:  Excitement matters, even on a board like Blazertalk. It's infectious. It leads to good things. Dueling Dragon (disclosure: we know one another in real, professional life) has laid out a very achievable pathway by which we - you and I - can make a difference.

Based on both of your tendencies for long-winded pablum, I would venture a guess of ex-Kaleidoscope "journalists".

You're often wrong, but seldom *that* wrong. Those two guys have been around for a long time, know a lot of people, and have a grasp on UAB's past and present that few on this board can match.

(12-03-2022 04:38 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(12-03-2022 04:19 PM)BlazerGreen Wrote:  

(12-03-2022 03:27 PM)58-56 Wrote:  Excitement matters, even on a board like Blazertalk. It's infectious. It leads to good things. Dueling Dragon (disclosure: we know one another in real, professional life) has laid out a very achievable pathway by which we - you and I - can make a difference.

Based on both of your tendencies for long-winded pablum, I would venture a guess of ex-Kaleidoscope "journalists".

You're often wrong, but seldom *that* wrong. Those two guys have been around for a long time, know a lot of people, and have a grasp on UAB's past and present that few on this board can match.

I've been around UAB and UAB athletics since 1978. Father was a long-time professor and close friend of Coach Bartow. I have EIGHT UAB grads in my immediate family including a teaching doctor at the med school. Sorry, not impressed with their jingoist tripe. Preaching sermons on a board of die-hard fans like this is sunday school is an insulting joke.

(12-03-2022 03:27 PM)58-56 Wrote:  There is an attitude (both Gene and Murry Bartow used to talk about it) that holds that nothing good can come out of Birmingham, Alabama. A deep-seated insecurity built on too many failures, too many broken promises. You see it in local media (elevating D-List celebrities to godlike status if they attended kindergarten here), entertainment (any song, whatever genre, with "Birmingham" in the lyrics goes to heavy rotation) and so on. A desperate need for validation.

We have to break that. We did it to restore football (just do some searches to see the Eeyore reactions on December 3rd 2014 on this board). We can do that again.

It's okay to be excited. Trent Dilfer is an exciting hire. Bill Clark was not exciting, but he was what we needed in that time and place.

Excitement matters, even on a board like Blazertalk. It's infectious. It leads to good things. Dueling Dragon (disclosure: we know one another in real, professional life) has laid out a very achievable pathway by which we - you and I - can make a difference.

It's okay to be excited. Dilfer will take care of his part, and we can take care of ours. We can make this happen.

Great things are going to happen. I can feel it, and when I feel it, I am never wrong.

Speaking of speaking positively of Birmingham, we got a solid dose of it from a source that I would have expected cynicism from. Joe Goodman. Check this out.

https://www.al.com/uab/2022/12/joseph-go...ilfer.html