Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

(11-29-2022 03:11 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 01:20 PM)The Demoralizer Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 01:07 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 12:24 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  Unless Helton hires a new DC, 6-6, 7-5 is the new reality. It's Hatcher 2.0. I'd absolutely love for Helton to prove me wrong.

I’d be more optimistic about GoSo’s D. Helton has to recruit well, and it’s too early to see how that turns out.

Seriously though....GoSo?

At least it wasn't Soso which would be more accurate.

I lol'd. Sad but true.

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I think I would rather go back full flexbone than anything we've had between Fritz and Helton. Talk about identity crisis!

(11-29-2022 04:24 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I think I would rather go back full flexbone than anything we've had between Fritz and Helton. Talk about identity crisis!

Truth. I think Fritz called the plays - only explanation I know of for why Ruse 2.0 results were so different. If we go that route ever again, I'd get Drew Cronic or poach an offensive guy from Leipold. However I believe the anti-option crowd won out, and that era is over.

(11-29-2022 04:28 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:24 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I think I would rather go back full flexbone than anything we've had between Fritz and Helton. Talk about identity crisis!

Truth. I think Fritz called the plays - only explanation I know of for why Ruse 2.0 results were so different. If we go that route ever again, I'd get Drew Cronic or poach an offensive guy from Leipold. However I believe the anti-option crowd won out, and that era is over.

It's not even an anti-option crowd. Blocking rules have put the offense at a tremendous disadvantage. All you have to do is look at how others running it did this year

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I agree. Option offenses are among my favorite to watch, and while I wouldn't necessarily want to see the TO every game, I've always enjoyed the occasional game where I get to watch that Paul Johnson flavor of option (like Army this year).

Of course, I completely get why GS wants to move farther away from it. I'll be interested in seeing what the demand is like to return to it, though, if/when GS's fortunes go down again at some point (as they do with all teams). How many years of airing it out will it take for it to stick?

(11-29-2022 07:35 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I agree. Option offenses are among my favorite to watch, and while I wouldn't necessarily want to see the TO every game, I've always enjoyed the occasional game where I get to watch that Paul Johnson flavor of option (like Army this year).

Of course, I completely get why GS wants to move farther away from it. I'll be interested in seeing what the demand is like to return to it, though, if/when GS's fortunes go down again at some point (as they do with all teams). How many years of airing it out will it take for it to stick?

Supply and demand. The ones buying the tickets are much more likely to want to see the ball thrown than ran. It's pretty much here to stay is my thought. Perhaps not thrown as prolifically as it is now but definitely not going the glorified RB as QB route.

(11-29-2022 04:44 PM)GATA Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:28 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:24 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I think I would rather go back full flexbone than anything we've had between Fritz and Helton. Talk about identity crisis!

Truth. I think Fritz called the plays - only explanation I know of for why Ruse 2.0 results were so different. If we go that route ever again, I'd get Drew Cronic or poach an offensive guy from Leipold. However I believe the anti-option crowd won out, and that era is over.

It's not even an anti-option crowd. Blocking rules have put the offense at a tremendous disadvantage. All you have to do is look at how others running it did this year

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Only somebody who only knows PJ's version of the option would say that. Triple option and cut blocking aren't synonymous.

(11-29-2022 04:28 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:24 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I think I would rather go back full flexbone than anything we've had between Fritz and Helton. Talk about identity crisis!

Truth. I think Fritz called the plays - only explanation I know of for why Ruse 2.0 results were so different. If we go that route ever again, I'd get Drew Cronic or poach an offensive guy from Leipold. However I believe the anti-option crowd won out, and that era is over.

Ruse called a very similar scheme last year.

The difference is defenses have adjusted to more odd fronts that are shutting down these IZ based option concepts that were more dominant when we started running it in 14/15. We used to see a lot more even fronts back then. Go back and look at film from 14/15 and you'll see us struggle with the same 3-4 type defensive alignments back then that we did in 2021. You're also seeing athletic LBs (and more of them on the field at a time) able to cover space and DEs that are more disciplined in covering the mesh and guard the outside alley (hence why Wake has adopted that slow mesh to disrupt defenses diagnosing the mesh). We didn't have an NFL RB to hand off to behind a solid OL either so that didn't help either.

Remember, Fritz is more of a defensive coach and has allowed the offense to adapt based on whoever he has at OC. Fritz is more of a CEO type HC.

TBH the offenses of the future are going to be ones that go back in time to be successful. Big powerful rushing attacks leveraging defenses built to protect space on the field with all these passing attacks will be what starts to rise up again. You've already seen some of it with offenses adopting concepts like Counter GT which is just a new spin on Counter Trey. App has been using stretch concepts for years (which we struggled to stop last Sat) that is a similarly old concept from older pro style offenses. I've seen some talks about how Michigan is playing a more old school type of offense, although I haven't paid attention to them. Rhule in his intro presser at Nebraska mentioned something similar as well. It'll be interesting to see what new "innovation" comes next in college football and how quickly everyone else moves to copy it.

(11-29-2022 01:53 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Having a seasoned offensive-minded head coach bring on another seasoned OC who he already had a close working relationship with was the combination that helped us move forward on the offense very rapidly. We had the OL and the RB’s already and we were able to shuffle around talent to WR and TE. Then the transfer portal dropped a 6th year vet QB on our doorstep and I think Eagle fans knew it was going to come together sooner than later.

Contrast that with our new DC who was a first time DC and a young talent on the rise at Washington. Some coaches are better at coming in and being successful with other coaches’ recruits and others need more time to transition and bring their own players in. Also Coach Harris’s experience in the pass happy PAC-12 did not translate very well to the Sun Belt East where 5 of the 7 teams like to jam the ball down your throat with the run game. I see them recruiting the defense hard this off season and I’m hoping for marked improvement next season or he gone. I don’t think GS fans need to be calling for his head quite yet though.

There is barely 10 years of total coaching experience shared among our defensive staff. It's not shocking that we had a bad defense, but it's shocking that we had the worst defense for the data recorded in GATAdb which covers more than 20 years. It was honestly quite unbelievable just how bad it was. Looking to see the most moves made on this side of the ball in the offseason to jump start improvements there.

(11-30-2022 02:26 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 01:53 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Having a seasoned offensive-minded head coach bring on another seasoned OC who he already had a close working relationship with was the combination that helped us move forward on the offense very rapidly. We had the OL and the RB’s already and we were able to shuffle around talent to WR and TE. Then the transfer portal dropped a 6th year vet QB on our doorstep and I think Eagle fans knew it was going to come together sooner than later.

Contrast that with our new DC who was a first time DC and a young talent on the rise at Washington. Some coaches are better at coming in and being successful with other coaches’ recruits and others need more time to transition and bring their own players in. Also Coach Harris’s experience in the pass happy PAC-12 did not translate very well to the Sun Belt East where 5 of the 7 teams like to jam the ball down your throat with the run game. I see them recruiting the defense hard this off season and I’m hoping for marked improvement next season or he gone. I don’t think GS fans need to be calling for his head quite yet though.

There is barely 10 years of total coaching experience shared among our defensive staff. It's not shocking that we had a bad defense, but it's shocking that we had the worst defense for the data recorded in GATAdb which covers more than 20 years. It was honestly quite unbelievable just how bad it was. Looking to see the most moves made on this side of the ball in the offseason to jump start improvements there.

I had been watching GATAdb and ESPN FPI and it really was shocking how much of a decline the defense had week after the week. We literally had a free fall. The only reason we aren't completely dead last is because we ran out of football season.

I was told a number of times that this is only because of how bad recruiting was. I refuse to believe this. Even in the worst of years our defense was not this bad. An inexperienced defensive staff, now that I can believe. If he had retained Sloan, I firmly believe we'd be in a better spot than we are now. I am starting to doubt that we will fire the DC. You don't hire a staff as inexperienced as this and not expect some kind of ramification. Secondly, our defense is so bad, do we really believe that if we fired our DC this morning, it would negatively impact the bowl game any more than our defense already will? This is why I believe there's a chance that this is as good as it gets - Hatcher 2.0. The only teams we'll beat are teams whose inability to defend that offense is worse than our ability to defend theirs. I'm not worried yet, because the coaching carousel hasn't even begun for coordinators and support staff.

(11-29-2022 04:24 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I think I would rather go back full flexbone than anything we've had between Fritz and Helton. Talk about identity crisis!

After this season could you really tell me we're better off if we had hired Brian Bohannon than our current staff? He held a presser where he basically said he'll have to revamp the offense.

(11-30-2022 08:46 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:24 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 04:17 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  Option offenses, especially the triple-option, are fun to watch when run correctly.

I think I would rather go back full flexbone than anything we've had between Fritz and Helton. Talk about identity crisis!

After this season could you really tell me we're better off if we had hired Brian Bohannon than our current staff? He held a presser where he basically said he'll have to revamp the offense.

That reminds me of a press conference with Lunsford where somebody had asked him about going under center for the option, and he responded that OL play is different for under center than shotgun. You'd effectively have to revamp the entire offense. Maybe that's why PJ only went shotgun a few times at GT?

(11-30-2022 08:11 AM)stingingeagle Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 02:26 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 01:53 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Having a seasoned offensive-minded head coach bring on another seasoned OC who he already had a close working relationship with was the combination that helped us move forward on the offense very rapidly. We had the OL and the RB’s already and we were able to shuffle around talent to WR and TE. Then the transfer portal dropped a 6th year vet QB on our doorstep and I think Eagle fans knew it was going to come together sooner than later.

Contrast that with our new DC who was a first time DC and a young talent on the rise at Washington. Some coaches are better at coming in and being successful with other coaches’ recruits and others need more time to transition and bring their own players in. Also Coach Harris’s experience in the pass happy PAC-12 did not translate very well to the Sun Belt East where 5 of the 7 teams like to jam the ball down your throat with the run game. I see them recruiting the defense hard this off season and I’m hoping for marked improvement next season or he gone. I don’t think GS fans need to be calling for his head quite yet though.

There is barely 10 years of total coaching experience shared among our defensive staff. It's not shocking that we had a bad defense, but it's shocking that we had the worst defense for the data recorded in GATAdb which covers more than 20 years. It was honestly quite unbelievable just how bad it was. Looking to see the most moves made on this side of the ball in the offseason to jump start improvements there.

I had been watching GATAdb and ESPN FPI and it really was shocking how much of a decline the defense had week after the week. We literally had a free fall. The only reason we aren't completely dead last is because we ran out of football season.

I was told a number of times that this is only because of how bad recruiting was. I refuse to believe this. Even in the worst of years our defense was not this bad. An inexperienced defensive staff, now that I can believe. If he had retained Sloan, I firmly believe we'd be in a better spot than we are now. I am starting to doubt that we will fire the DC. You don't hire a staff as inexperienced as this and not expect some kind of ramification. Secondly, our defense is so bad, do we really believe that if we fired our DC this morning, it would negatively impact the bowl game any more than our defense already will? This is why I believe there's a chance that this is as good as it gets - Hatcher 2.0. The only teams we'll beat are teams whose inability to defend that offense is worse than our ability to defend theirs. I'm not worried yet, because the coaching carousel hasn't even begun for coordinators and support staff.

And this doesn't worry you? If Helton doesn't at a minimum bring in a co-defensive coordinator we're flat out in trouble. The lack of foresight would be astonishing and the unnecessary risk taking would be Helton's new MO.

(11-30-2022 10:35 AM)Oldyeller Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:11 AM)stingingeagle Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 02:26 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 01:53 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Having a seasoned offensive-minded head coach bring on another seasoned OC who he already had a close working relationship with was the combination that helped us move forward on the offense very rapidly. We had the OL and the RB’s already and we were able to shuffle around talent to WR and TE. Then the transfer portal dropped a 6th year vet QB on our doorstep and I think Eagle fans knew it was going to come together sooner than later.

Contrast that with our new DC who was a first time DC and a young talent on the rise at Washington. Some coaches are better at coming in and being successful with other coaches’ recruits and others need more time to transition and bring their own players in. Also Coach Harris’s experience in the pass happy PAC-12 did not translate very well to the Sun Belt East where 5 of the 7 teams like to jam the ball down your throat with the run game. I see them recruiting the defense hard this off season and I’m hoping for marked improvement next season or he gone. I don’t think GS fans need to be calling for his head quite yet though.

There is barely 10 years of total coaching experience shared among our defensive staff. It's not shocking that we had a bad defense, but it's shocking that we had the worst defense for the data recorded in GATAdb which covers more than 20 years. It was honestly quite unbelievable just how bad it was. Looking to see the most moves made on this side of the ball in the offseason to jump start improvements there.

I had been watching GATAdb and ESPN FPI and it really was shocking how much of a decline the defense had week after the week. We literally had a free fall. The only reason we aren't completely dead last is because we ran out of football season.

I was told a number of times that this is only because of how bad recruiting was. I refuse to believe this. Even in the worst of years our defense was not this bad. An inexperienced defensive staff, now that I can believe. If he had retained Sloan, I firmly believe we'd be in a better spot than we are now. I am starting to doubt that we will fire the DC. You don't hire a staff as inexperienced as this and not expect some kind of ramification. Secondly, our defense is so bad, do we really believe that if we fired our DC this morning, it would negatively impact the bowl game any more than our defense already will? This is why I believe there's a chance that this is as good as it gets - Hatcher 2.0. The only teams we'll beat are teams whose inability to defend that offense is worse than our ability to defend theirs. I'm not worried yet, because the coaching carousel hasn't even begun for coordinators and support staff.

And this doesn't worry you? If Helton doesn't at a minimum bring in a co-defensive coordinator we're flat out in trouble. The lack of foresight would be astonishing and the unnecessary risk taking would be Helton's new MO.

Heck yeah it does. I'm desperately hanging on to the belief that he knows something needs to change and the belief that change is coming. If none of those happen, this is going to hurt, a lot. USC's defense got a little worse each year. I can tell defense got better in his last year there but by then it was too late. I really really hope we aren't on that path.

There is no question had Georgia Southern had improved from incompetent to just bad on defense then we could of had at a minimum 2 more W's this season. Things have to improve on that side of the ball and the DC at the very least needs to be on the hotseat. If the DC is retained then I'd like to see a few changes to our assistants on that side of the ball at the very minimum. Anything less than a shakeup on that side of the ball says we are in for more of the same.

(11-30-2022 10:39 AM)stingingeagle Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 10:35 AM)Oldyeller Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 08:11 AM)stingingeagle Wrote:  

(11-30-2022 02:26 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  

(11-29-2022 01:53 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Having a seasoned offensive-minded head coach bring on another seasoned OC who he already had a close working relationship with was the combination that helped us move forward on the offense very rapidly. We had the OL and the RB’s already and we were able to shuffle around talent to WR and TE. Then the transfer portal dropped a 6th year vet QB on our doorstep and I think Eagle fans knew it was going to come together sooner than later.

Contrast that with our new DC who was a first time DC and a young talent on the rise at Washington. Some coaches are better at coming in and being successful with other coaches’ recruits and others need more time to transition and bring their own players in. Also Coach Harris’s experience in the pass happy PAC-12 did not translate very well to the Sun Belt East where 5 of the 7 teams like to jam the ball down your throat with the run game. I see them recruiting the defense hard this off season and I’m hoping for marked improvement next season or he gone. I don’t think GS fans need to be calling for his head quite yet though.

There is barely 10 years of total coaching experience shared among our defensive staff. It's not shocking that we had a bad defense, but it's shocking that we had the worst defense for the data recorded in GATAdb which covers more than 20 years. It was honestly quite unbelievable just how bad it was. Looking to see the most moves made on this side of the ball in the offseason to jump start improvements there.

I had been watching GATAdb and ESPN FPI and it really was shocking how much of a decline the defense had week after the week. We literally had a free fall. The only reason we aren't completely dead last is because we ran out of football season.

I was told a number of times that this is only because of how bad recruiting was. I refuse to believe this. Even in the worst of years our defense was not this bad. An inexperienced defensive staff, now that I can believe. If he had retained Sloan, I firmly believe we'd be in a better spot than we are now. I am starting to doubt that we will fire the DC. You don't hire a staff as inexperienced as this and not expect some kind of ramification. Secondly, our defense is so bad, do we really believe that if we fired our DC this morning, it would negatively impact the bowl game any more than our defense already will? This is why I believe there's a chance that this is as good as it gets - Hatcher 2.0. The only teams we'll beat are teams whose inability to defend that offense is worse than our ability to defend theirs. I'm not worried yet, because the coaching carousel hasn't even begun for coordinators and support staff.

And this doesn't worry you? If Helton doesn't at a minimum bring in a co-defensive coordinator we're flat out in trouble. The lack of foresight would be astonishing and the unnecessary risk taking would be Helton's new MO.

Heck yeah it does. I'm desperately hanging on to the belief that he knows something needs to change and the belief that change is coming. If none of those happen, this is going to hurt, a lot. USC's defense got a little worse each year. I can tell defense got better in his last year there but by then it was too late. I really really hope we aren't on that path.

If CCH's defense get's worse his head coaching days will be short. This could be his Achilles heel. He needs to make every attempt to correct the mistake and it needs to be clear that he fully grasp the magnitude of the this mess. He fails to do that he can kiss any promotion goodbye.