The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(12-01-2022 11:58 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 08:27 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:33 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

Exactly right. C of C was 10/25 from three and we were 5/11. We had a better % but were out scored by 15 from three. We lost by 16? If we had taken 25 threes in that game Jones would have had a heart attack.

The funny thing is its not true. Listen to the podcast. Jones actually wants them to shoot more 3s. He's been getting on them for passing up 3s and getting on them when they pass up 3s to take long jumpers.

We need to make take (make) more 3s. But, we need to do a better job of making layups. Especially our bigs.

We are only shooting 58% at the rim. (Dericho only 52%)

Jeff's right to say that. They SHOULD shoot more 3-point shots, but only if they can get up to 39-40% as a team in making them. Otherwise, hitting 58% of 2-point conversions will score more points per possession than hitting 33% of their 3-point conversions.

Currently they have 4 players that are exceeding the 40% mark - Smith (.438), Imo (.462), Long (.462), and Jenkins (.500). If those players (and any of the others like Baker who haven't played much) are able to sustain shooting 40% or better, then they should shoot more of them - as long as they are open shots.

Stanley (.167 - 2/12 shots), Stines (.000 - 0/8 shots) and Scott-Grayson (.208 - 5/24 shots) are currently dragging down the team's percentage from behind the arc. Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 (.459) from behind the arc.

“Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 “.
Unfortunately you can’t ! And Stines is supposed to be one of our better shooters I thought. Hopefully he can break out with a Poag 9-9 game. Ok, how about a 3-4 game then!

Speaking of Baker. How has he looked so far please?

(12-02-2022 07:17 AM)mac Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 11:58 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 08:27 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:33 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

Exactly right. C of C was 10/25 from three and we were 5/11. We had a better % but were out scored by 15 from three. We lost by 16? If we had taken 25 threes in that game Jones would have had a heart attack.

The funny thing is its not true. Listen to the podcast. Jones actually wants them to shoot more 3s. He's been getting on them for passing up 3s and getting on them when they pass up 3s to take long jumpers.

We need to make take (make) more 3s. But, we need to do a better job of making layups. Especially our bigs.

We are only shooting 58% at the rim. (Dericho only 52%)

Jeff's right to say that. They SHOULD shoot more 3-point shots, but only if they can get up to 39-40% as a team in making them. Otherwise, hitting 58% of 2-point conversions will score more points per possession than hitting 33% of their 3-point conversions.

Currently they have 4 players that are exceeding the 40% mark - Smith (.438), Imo (.462), Long (.462), and Jenkins (.500). If those players (and any of the others like Baker who haven't played much) are able to sustain shooting 40% or better, then they should shoot more of them - as long as they are open shots.

Stanley (.167 - 2/12 shots), Stines (.000 - 0/8 shots) and Scott-Grayson (.208 - 5/24 shots) are currently dragging down the team's percentage from behind the arc. Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 (.459) from behind the arc.

“Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 “.
Unfortunately you can’t ! And Stines is supposed to be one of our better shooters I thought. Hopefully he can break out with a Poag 9-9 game. Ok, how about a 3-4 game then!

Speaking of Baker. How has he looked so far please?

After the Charleston game, Jeff said that he will accelerate his timeline for incorporating Baker (ready or not) and we should expect Baker to start taking minutes away from players in the current rotation.

(12-02-2022 08:23 AM)bigblue78 Wrote:  

(12-02-2022 07:17 AM)mac Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 11:58 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 08:27 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:33 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  Exactly right. C of C was 10/25 from three and we were 5/11. We had a better % but were out scored by 15 from three. We lost by 16? If we had taken 25 threes in that game Jones would have had a heart attack.

The funny thing is its not true. Listen to the podcast. Jones actually wants them to shoot more 3s. He's been getting on them for passing up 3s and getting on them when they pass up 3s to take long jumpers.

We need to make take (make) more 3s. But, we need to do a better job of making layups. Especially our bigs.

We are only shooting 58% at the rim. (Dericho only 52%)

Jeff's right to say that. They SHOULD shoot more 3-point shots, but only if they can get up to 39-40% as a team in making them. Otherwise, hitting 58% of 2-point conversions will score more points per possession than hitting 33% of their 3-point conversions.

Currently they have 4 players that are exceeding the 40% mark - Smith (.438), Imo (.462), Long (.462), and Jenkins (.500). If those players (and any of the others like Baker who haven't played much) are able to sustain shooting 40% or better, then they should shoot more of them - as long as they are open shots.

Stanley (.167 - 2/12 shots), Stines (.000 - 0/8 shots) and Scott-Grayson (.208 - 5/24 shots) are currently dragging down the team's percentage from behind the arc. Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 (.459) from behind the arc.

“Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 “.
Unfortunately you can’t ! And Stines is supposed to be one of our better shooters I thought. Hopefully he can break out with a Poag 9-9 game. Ok, how about a 3-4 game then!

Speaking of Baker. How has he looked so far please?

After the Charleston game, Jeff said that he will accelerate his timeline for incorporating Baker (ready or not) and we should expect Baker to start taking minutes away from players in the current rotation.

Thanks for that info 78.

(12-01-2022 11:58 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Jeff's right to say that. They SHOULD shoot more 3-point shots, but only if they can get up to 39-40% as a team in making them. Otherwise, hitting 58% of 2-point conversions will score more points per possession than hitting 33% of their 3-point conversions.

Currently they have 4 players that are exceeding the 40% mark - Smith (.438), Imo (.462), Long (.462), and Jenkins (.500). If those players (and any of the others like Baker who haven't played much) are able to sustain shooting 40% or better, then they should shoot more of them - as long as they are open shots.

Stanley (.167 - 2/12 shots), Stines (.000 - 0/8 shots) and Scott-Grayson (.208 - 5/24 shots) are currently dragging down the team's percentage from behind the arc. Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 (.459) from behind the arc.

The problem is we aren't hitting 58% of our 2-point shots. We're making 58% AT THE RIM. Our overall 2P% is .478. If we shoot 32% from three, we are gaining points per possession. Currently, we're shooting 33% as a team. We need to take more threes.

(12-01-2022 08:27 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:33 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 02:55 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  Just some stat mining that I just did because I felt like 3-pt shooting is killing us (net off/def). My feelings were verified.

2019-20
Offense 29.3% 184 made
Defense 33.8% 266 made

2020-21
Offense 28.8% 113 made
Defense 35.2% 196 made

2021-22
Offense 29.4% 141 made
Defense 34.1% 279 made

2022-23 thru Charleston
Offense 33.3% 35 made
Defense 33.0% 64 made

So in a little over 3 years, we have made 332 less 3-pointers thus outscored by 996 points from beyond the arc.

My thinking here is that it seems that emphasis on defense with perimeter players is not panning out.

Your stats show what I have been saying for years. Jeff is a Packed-in Defensive coach 1st, and an Inside scoring & Rebounding coach on the offensive end 2nd. Any coach that valued the 3-point shot and put emphasis on it offensively would not be outscored by an average of 103 three-point shots per year over the last 3 seasons. Coaching wise, he is who he is.

I get the feeling that he wants to change, but he's just having a really hard time doing it. I say that because he has gotten away from his limited 6-7 man rotation this season, and he has pressed defensively a little bit when he really didn't have to which is different for him. Still, it seems that he is mainly falling back into his comfort zone for the most part. I guess it's true what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks, or a leopard changing its spots.

Hopefully, our next coach will be all in on pressure defense, 3-point shooting/scoring, and fast paced offense. Maybe we can pick someone off the VCU coaching tree - or some other school that plays that style.

Exactly right. C of C was 10/25 from three and we were 5/11. We had a better % but were out scored by 15 from three. We lost by 16? If we had taken 25 threes in that game Jones would have had a heart attack.

The funny thing is its not true. Listen to the podcast. Jones actually wants them to shoot more 3s. He's been getting on them for passing up 3s and getting on them when they pass up 3s to take long jumpers.

We need to make take (make) more 3s. But, we need to do a better job of making layups. Especially our bigs.

We are only shooting 58% at the rim. (Dericho only 52%)

Jones say that every year. The question is why is he having such a hard time getting dudes to want to shoot 3s. Default for young players is to want to shoot 3s. My take is that these kids are broken by constantly being told what is and isn't a good shot, and are hesitant for that reason. Reason 2, the offense sucks and it is hard to get rhythm shots that dudes are comfortable with.

BTW - message board decorum insists that someone better than I initiate a Norfolk State thread. I doon't want to be the cause of the collapse of the BB team or the demise of this forum.

(12-02-2022 11:00 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 11:58 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Jeff's right to say that. They SHOULD shoot more 3-point shots, but only if they can get up to 39-40% as a team in making them. Otherwise, hitting 58% of 2-point conversions will score more points per possession than hitting 33% of their 3-point conversions.

Currently they have 4 players that are exceeding the 40% mark - Smith (.438), Imo (.462), Long (.462), and Jenkins (.500). If those players (and any of the others like Baker who haven't played much) are able to sustain shooting 40% or better, then they should shoot more of them - as long as they are open shots.

Stanley (.167 - 2/12 shots), Stines (.000 - 0/8 shots) and Scott-Grayson (.208 - 5/24 shots) are currently dragging down the team's percentage from behind the arc. Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 (.459) from behind the arc.

The problem is we aren't hitting 58% of our 2-point shots. We're making 58% AT THE RIM. Our overall 2P% is .478. If we shoot 32% from three, we are gaining points per possession. Currently, we're shooting 33% as a team. We need to take more threes.

As I said earlier, I agree with Jeff's comment that they need to shoot more 3-point shots, just not by everybody or when they are tightly covered. The more of them they shoot the more the other teams will react defensively to stop their success there.

And get the ball inside more where they are hitting 58% rather than shooting as many 10-18 foot 2-point shots. The bottom line is that they have a few 3-point shooters capable of hitting an open shot from behind the arc at a high percentage, and some others that are still throwing them up, but as yet haven't proven to be so good at making them this season.

(12-02-2022 11:48 AM)bigblue78 Wrote:  BTW - message board decorum insists that someone better than I initiate a Norfolk State thread. I doon't want to be the cause of the collapse of the BB team or the demise of this forum.

If they lose at home to Norfolk State .... oh boy.

(12-02-2022 01:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-02-2022 11:48 AM)bigblue78 Wrote:  BTW - message board decorum insists that someone better than I initiate a Norfolk State thread. I doon't want to be the cause of the collapse of the BB team or the demise of this forum.

If they lose at home to Norfolk State .... oh boy.

Its certainly not an impossibility. They've probably been the better team the last 2 years (in spite of us winning). It will be a dogfight for sure.

(12-02-2022 01:43 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-02-2022 01:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-02-2022 11:48 AM)bigblue78 Wrote:  BTW - message board decorum insists that someone better than I initiate a Norfolk State thread. I doon't want to be the cause of the collapse of the BB team or the demise of this forum.

If they lose at home to Norfolk State .... oh boy.

Its certainly not an impossibility. They've probably been the better team the last 2 years (in spite of us winning). It will be a dogfight for sure.

I agree with you on that. My comment was more along the lines of how far the team has fallen if they end up with a home loss to the cross town MEAC school, and the fallout that will come from it on the ODU boards.

This used to be a box you could reasonably check off when the schedule came out as an expected win and a means to get the team ready for the stronger competition that they would face later on in the out of conference portion of the schedule.

(12-02-2022 08:23 AM)bigblue78 Wrote:  

(12-02-2022 07:17 AM)mac Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 11:58 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 08:27 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 05:33 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  Exactly right. C of C was 10/25 from three and we were 5/11. We had a better % but were out scored by 15 from three. We lost by 16? If we had taken 25 threes in that game Jones would have had a heart attack.

The funny thing is its not true. Listen to the podcast. Jones actually wants them to shoot more 3s. He's been getting on them for passing up 3s and getting on them when they pass up 3s to take long jumpers.

We need to make take (make) more 3s. But, we need to do a better job of making layups. Especially our bigs.

We are only shooting 58% at the rim. (Dericho only 52%)

Jeff's right to say that. They SHOULD shoot more 3-point shots, but only if they can get up to 39-40% as a team in making them. Otherwise, hitting 58% of 2-point conversions will score more points per possession than hitting 33% of their 3-point conversions.

Currently they have 4 players that are exceeding the 40% mark - Smith (.438), Imo (.462), Long (.462), and Jenkins (.500). If those players (and any of the others like Baker who haven't played much) are able to sustain shooting 40% or better, then they should shoot more of them - as long as they are open shots.

Stanley (.167 - 2/12 shots), Stines (.000 - 0/8 shots) and Scott-Grayson (.208 - 5/24 shots) are currently dragging down the team's percentage from behind the arc. Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 (.459) from behind the arc.

“Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 “.
Unfortunately you can’t ! And Stines is supposed to be one of our better shooters I thought. Hopefully he can break out with a Poag 9-9 game. Ok, how about a 3-4 game then!

Speaking of Baker. How has he looked so far please?

After the Charleston game, Jeff said that he will accelerate his timeline for incorporating Baker (ready or not) and we should expect Baker to start taking minutes away from players in the current rotation.

I would guess that he may take some minutes away from Stines.

(12-02-2022 11:00 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 11:58 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Jeff's right to say that. They SHOULD shoot more 3-point shots, but only if they can get up to 39-40% as a team in making them. Otherwise, hitting 58% of 2-point conversions will score more points per possession than hitting 33% of their 3-point conversions.

Currently they have 4 players that are exceeding the 40% mark - Smith (.438), Imo (.462), Long (.462), and Jenkins (.500). If those players (and any of the others like Baker who haven't played much) are able to sustain shooting 40% or better, then they should shoot more of them - as long as they are open shots.

Stanley (.167 - 2/12 shots), Stines (.000 - 0/8 shots) and Scott-Grayson (.208 - 5/24 shots) are currently dragging down the team's percentage from behind the arc. Take away those 7/44 shots and the team is shooting 28/61 (.459) from behind the arc.

The problem is we aren't hitting 58% of our 2-point shots. We're making 58% AT THE RIM. Our overall 2P% is .478. If we shoot 32% from three, we are gaining points per possession. Currently, we're shooting 33% as a team. We need to take more threes.

Yeah, I thought that was clear.