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bearcatmark Online
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Post: #21
RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 04:09 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:07 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I guess I don't understand hiring a guy in Campbell who went 1-8 and finished in last place in the B12 this year getting hired so we can start a rebuild ourselves in the B12 next year. But that's just me.

Same.

As best I can tell, the biggest bullet point on his resume is "turned bad program to just OK program."

I'd much rather take a chance on a guy who might be great than a guy who has been pretty average.

Not all jobs are created equal. Saban was barely over .500 at Michigan State, but it was a really tough job when Saban arrived there.

Iowa State has little to no history of sustained success. It's the hardest job in the Big 12, and it's not particularly close. He has won the conference and won a major bowl. He had 5 straight winning seasons prior to this one. This year was a bad year in a loaded Big 12 (second rated conference by nearly every metric), but a lot of what makes a coach a success is not just coaching ability...it's coaching ability AND job fit. Iowa state is a bad job fit for nearly every coach in the country. Cincinnati is a GREAT job fit for a certain type of coach that can recruit this part of the country and can develop talent. For me that is what you are betting on if you go after Campbell. A guy who has won at a bad fit job and bringing him to a job that is a GREAT fit.
 
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11-28-2022 04:27 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
Gino would be an unqualified G5 hire.
 
11-28-2022 04:28 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
You guys gotta admit....all this speculation is pretty fun. I love this school!
 
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11-28-2022 04:30 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 04:27 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:09 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:07 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I guess I don't understand hiring a guy in Campbell who went 1-8 and finished in last place in the B12 this year getting hired so we can start a rebuild ourselves in the B12 next year. But that's just me.

Same.

As best I can tell, the biggest bullet point on his resume is "turned bad program to just OK program."

I'd much rather take a chance on a guy who might be great than a guy who has been pretty average.

Not all jobs are created equal. Saban was barely over .500 at Michigan State, but it was a really tough job when Saban arrived there.

Iowa State has little to no history of sustained success. It's the hardest job in the Big 12, and it's not particularly close. He has won the conference and won a major bowl. He had 5 straight winning seasons prior to this one. This year was a bad year in a loaded Big 12 (second rated conference by nearly every metric), but a lot of what makes a coach a success is not just coaching ability...it's coaching ability AND job fit. Iowa state is a bad job fit for nearly every coach in the country. Cincinnati is a GREAT job fit for a certain type of coach that can recruit this part of the country and can develop talent. For me that is what you are betting on if you go after Campbell. A guy who has won at a bad fit job and bringing him to a job that is a GREAT fit.

These are good points. He was a candidate for MSU for a reason. I've seen a lot of their games and until this year they've been pretty strong.
 
11-28-2022 04:33 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 04:27 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:09 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:07 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I guess I don't understand hiring a guy in Campbell who went 1-8 and finished in last place in the B12 this year getting hired so we can start a rebuild ourselves in the B12 next year. But that's just me.

Same.

As best I can tell, the biggest bullet point on his resume is "turned bad program to just OK program."

I'd much rather take a chance on a guy who might be great than a guy who has been pretty average.

Not all jobs are created equal. Saban was barely over .500 at Michigan State, but it was a really tough job when Saban arrived there.

Iowa State has little to no history of sustained success. It's the hardest job in the Big 12, and it's not particularly close. He has won the conference and won a major bowl. He had 5 straight winning seasons prior to this one. This year was a bad year in a loaded Big 12 (second rated conference by nearly every metric), but a lot of what makes a coach a success is not just coaching ability...it's coaching ability AND job fit. Iowa state is a bad job fit for nearly every coach in the country. Cincinnati is a GREAT job fit for a certain type of coach that can recruit this part of the country and can develop talent. For me that is what you are betting on if you go after Campbell. A guy who has won at a bad fit job and bringing him to a job that is a GREAT fit.

The cool thing is he could be the first guy ever to finish in last place in a conference two years in a row with two different teams. Lol
 
11-28-2022 04:33 PM
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nachoman91 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Coaching Search Thread
Maybe I'm missing something but why would anyone want a coach who was just mediocre at another school. Are they suddenly going to become an elite coach because they step foot on UC's campus?

How does Matt Campbell moving from ISU to UC make him become more successful? Same thing for Derek Mason or Tom Herman. It's not like these guys are going to suddenly be upgraded with significantly better facilities or team name recognition that will bring in better recruits and better assistants.

At least Dave Clawson showed he could rebuild three different programs. But nine years at Wake and he produced one good season. Why would we want a retread who couldn't cut it at other programs.

I'd rather see them go after a successful head coach at a lower level or a top flight assistant that has shown success. Of the five past UC coaches, four of them fit this mold and those four were all successful. The one UC coach not successful was a retread.

The only candidates I've heard so far that give me any feeling of optimism are:
Urban Meyer - successful head coach at every schools he's been, but is he worth the image problem
Deonn - successful head coach but super high risk
Brian Hartline - Top flight assistant. Everything I read and hear about this guy is nothing but extreme positivity.
 
11-28-2022 04:45 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 04:45 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Maybe I'm missing something but why would anyone want a coach who was just mediocre at another school. Are they suddenly going to become an elite coach because they step foot on UC's campus?

How does Matt Campbell moving from ISU to UC make him become more successful? Same thing for Derek Mason or Tom Herman. It's not like these guys are going to suddenly be upgraded with significantly better facilities or team name recognition that will bring in better recruits and better assistants.

At least Dave Clawson showed he could rebuild three different programs. But nine years at Wake and he produced one good season. Why would we want a retread who couldn't cut it at other programs.

I'd rather see them go after a successful head coach at a lower level or a top flight assistant that has shown success. Of the five past UC coaches, four of them fit this mold and those four were all successful. The one UC coach not successful was a retread.

The only candidates I've heard so far that give me any feeling of optimism are:
Urban Meyer - successful head coach at every schools he's been, but is he worth the image problem
Deonn - successful head coach but super high risk
Brian Hartline - Top flight assistant. Everything I read and hear about this guy is nothing but extreme positivity.

By this logic Saban would have spent his entire career in East Lansing
 
11-28-2022 04:49 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 04:49 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:45 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Maybe I'm missing something but why would anyone want a coach who was just mediocre at another school. Are they suddenly going to become an elite coach because they step foot on UC's campus?

How does Matt Campbell moving from ISU to UC make him become more successful? Same thing for Derek Mason or Tom Herman. It's not like these guys are going to suddenly be upgraded with significantly better facilities or team name recognition that will bring in better recruits and better assistants.

At least Dave Clawson showed he could rebuild three different programs. But nine years at Wake and he produced one good season. Why would we want a retread who couldn't cut it at other programs.

I'd rather see them go after a successful head coach at a lower level or a top flight assistant that has shown success. Of the five past UC coaches, four of them fit this mold and those four were all successful. The one UC coach not successful was a retread.

The only candidates I've heard so far that give me any feeling of optimism are:
Urban Meyer - successful head coach at every schools he's been, but is he worth the image problem
Deonn - successful head coach but super high risk
Brian Hartline - Top flight assistant. Everything I read and hear about this guy is nothing but extreme positivity.

By this logic Saban would have spent his entire career in East Lansing

Nick Saban was a risky hire that LSU got lucky with. He's the exception, not he rule. And LSU hired him after his best season at MSU so he hadn't yet proven that year was a one hit wonder.

Matt Campbell had one good year out of seven at ISU. And it's not this year. So he's not on an upward trajectory.

Tom Herman couldn't do anything with one of the most elite college football programs of all time with unlimited resources.

Its a risk no matter who you hire so my preference would be to either minimize risk with a proven coach. Or go high risk/high reward with a top hungry assistant.
The worst thing UC can do is get a guy who turns UC in Louisville or West Virginia.
Years of middling performance after being very good programs in a less renowned conference.
 
11-28-2022 05:04 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 04:49 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:45 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Maybe I'm missing something but why would anyone want a coach who was just mediocre at another school. Are they suddenly going to become an elite coach because they step foot on UC's campus?

How does Matt Campbell moving from ISU to UC make him become more successful? Same thing for Derek Mason or Tom Herman. It's not like these guys are going to suddenly be upgraded with significantly better facilities or team name recognition that will bring in better recruits and better assistants.

At least Dave Clawson showed he could rebuild three different programs. But nine years at Wake and he produced one good season. Why would we want a retread who couldn't cut it at other programs.

I'd rather see them go after a successful head coach at a lower level or a top flight assistant that has shown success. Of the five past UC coaches, four of them fit this mold and those four were all successful. The one UC coach not successful was a retread.

The only candidates I've heard so far that give me any feeling of optimism are:
Urban Meyer - successful head coach at every schools he's been, but is he worth the image problem
Deonn - successful head coach but super high risk
Brian Hartline - Top flight assistant. Everything I read and hear about this guy is nothing but extreme positivity.

By this logic Saban would have spent his entire career in East Lansing

Ahem...Saban finished with a top 10 team (AP and Coaches #7) and had big wins over Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Florida that year.

That's why he got the LSU job.

Give me a similar resume in 2022 and I'm all over hiring whomever that is. Last place, not so much.
 
11-28-2022 05:12 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Coaching Search Thread
I doubt Campbell makes a move from one Big12 school to another. He's been courted by a few NFL teams recently. I still think that may happen.

Dave Clawson would be received with a collective YAWN from this fan base. That is not what this program needs right now.
 
11-28-2022 05:16 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 05:16 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  I doubt Campbell makes a move from one Big12 school to another. He's been courted by a few NFL teams recently. I still think that may happen.

Dave Clawson would be received with a collective YAWN from this fan base. That is not what this program needs right now.

Prater running the triple option Clawfense.

No thank you.
 
11-28-2022 05:22 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 04:27 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:09 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:07 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I guess I don't understand hiring a guy in Campbell who went 1-8 and finished in last place in the B12 this year getting hired so we can start a rebuild ourselves in the B12 next year. But that's just me.

Same.

As best I can tell, the biggest bullet point on his resume is "turned bad program to just OK program."

I'd much rather take a chance on a guy who might be great than a guy who has been pretty average.

Not all jobs are created equal. Saban was barely over .500 at Michigan State, but it was a really tough job when Saban arrived there.

Iowa State has little to no history of sustained success. It's the hardest job in the Big 12, and it's not particularly close. He has won the conference and won a major bowl. He had 5 straight winning seasons prior to this one. This year was a bad year in a loaded Big 12 (second rated conference by nearly every metric), but a lot of what makes a coach a success is not just coaching ability...it's coaching ability AND job fit. Iowa state is a bad job fit for nearly every coach in the country. Cincinnati is a GREAT job fit for a certain type of coach that can recruit this part of the country and can develop talent. For me that is what you are betting on if you go after Campbell. A guy who has won at a bad fit job and bringing him to a job that is a GREAT fit.

3x Big12 COY too. We could do way worse.
 
11-28-2022 05:23 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
Quote: Though Herman is worthy of another job, he reportedly does not feel Cincinnati is a good fit. That could make sense since most of his coaching experience was in the state of Texas, at schools like Sam Houston State, Texas State and Rice in addition to Houston and Texas.

https://larrybrownsports.com/college-foo...607846?amp
 
11-28-2022 05:41 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 05:23 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:27 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:09 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:07 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I guess I don't understand hiring a guy in Campbell who went 1-8 and finished in last place in the B12 this year getting hired so we can start a rebuild ourselves in the B12 next year. But that's just me.

Same.

As best I can tell, the biggest bullet point on his resume is "turned bad program to just OK program."

I'd much rather take a chance on a guy who might be great than a guy who has been pretty average.

Not all jobs are created equal. Saban was barely over .500 at Michigan State, but it was a really tough job when Saban arrived there.

Iowa State has little to no history of sustained success. It's the hardest job in the Big 12, and it's not particularly close. He has won the conference and won a major bowl. He had 5 straight winning seasons prior to this one. This year was a bad year in a loaded Big 12 (second rated conference by nearly every metric), but a lot of what makes a coach a success is not just coaching ability...it's coaching ability AND job fit. Iowa state is a bad job fit for nearly every coach in the country. Cincinnati is a GREAT job fit for a certain type of coach that can recruit this part of the country and can develop talent. For me that is what you are betting on if you go after Campbell. A guy who has won at a bad fit job and bringing him to a job that is a GREAT fit.

3x Big12 COY too. We could do way worse.

Sure, lots of worse candidates out there — but I just don’t see the appeal of getting a guy with a barely above .500 record over 7 years at Iowa State who is coming off a 1-8 in B12 play last year.

If being a totally average B12 program is the goal, sure. I’d rather swing for the fences.
 
11-28-2022 05:45 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
I’m guessing it’s going to be Campbell or Hartline, with Deion being the wildcard if he’s interested…he’s spent a fair amount of time in Cincinnati at least. Although it was two and a half decades ago.
 
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11-28-2022 06:05 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 06:05 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  I’m guessing it’s going to be Campbell or Hartline, with Deion being the wildcard if he’s interested…he’s spent a fair amount of time in Cincinnati at least. Although it was two and a half decades ago.

Deion would be a very risky hire. It could be successful, but it could go horribly wrong too. Feel like UC should be able to do better than that.

If I were Deion, I'd want to make my next step up at one of the lesser Florida schools or at least somewhere in the south anyway.
 
11-28-2022 06:11 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 04:45 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  The only candidates I've heard so far that give me any feeling of optimism are:
Urban Meyer - successful head coach at every schools he's been, but is he worth the image problem
Deonn - successful head coach but super high risk
Brian Hartline - Top flight assistant. Everything I read and hear about this guy is nothing but extreme positivity.

You might like this. I thought it was a fun short watch



 
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2022 06:18 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
11-28-2022 06:17 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
We were already Ohio State Lite with Fick and Coombs. Might as well continue that status by hiring Hartline.
 
11-28-2022 06:30 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
(11-28-2022 05:45 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 05:23 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:27 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:09 PM)#41 Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 04:07 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I guess I don't understand hiring a guy in Campbell who went 1-8 and finished in last place in the B12 this year getting hired so we can start a rebuild ourselves in the B12 next year. But that's just me.

Same.

As best I can tell, the biggest bullet point on his resume is "turned bad program to just OK program."

I'd much rather take a chance on a guy who might be great than a guy who has been pretty average.

Not all jobs are created equal. Saban was barely over .500 at Michigan State, but it was a really tough job when Saban arrived there.

Iowa State has little to no history of sustained success. It's the hardest job in the Big 12, and it's not particularly close. He has won the conference and won a major bowl. He had 5 straight winning seasons prior to this one. This year was a bad year in a loaded Big 12 (second rated conference by nearly every metric), but a lot of what makes a coach a success is not just coaching ability...it's coaching ability AND job fit. Iowa state is a bad job fit for nearly every coach in the country. Cincinnati is a GREAT job fit for a certain type of coach that can recruit this part of the country and can develop talent. For me that is what you are betting on if you go after Campbell. A guy who has won at a bad fit job and bringing him to a job that is a GREAT fit.

3x Big12 COY too. We could do way worse.

Sure, lots of worse candidates out there — but I just don’t see the appeal of getting a guy with a barely above .500 record over 7 years at Iowa State who is coming off a 1-8 in B12 play last year.

If being a totally average B12 program is the goal, sure. I’d rather swing for the fences.

My perception of the public perception of Campbell is that he's a falling star. He's probably still a good coach, but 1-8 in the B12 coming off a mediocre 2021 is a tough sell. I'm not necessarily against him as a hire but I hope and think we should do better.

Maybe I'll get into it more in a different thread, but I really think Campbell serves as a cautionary tale that probably figured into Fickell's decision to leave. Demand for one's coaching services is, well, fickle. And the iron can go cold surprisingly quickly if you don't strike when it's hot.
 
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2022 07:05 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
11-28-2022 06:57 PM
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RE: Coaching Search Thread
"Conflicting reports" on Tom Herman's interest...

Quote:Former Ohio State assistant and Texas head coach Tom Herman has conflicting reports swirling around him and UC football.

Earlier today Toledo Blade reporter Kyle Rowland said Herman would not have any interest in becoming the Bearcats' 44th head coach.

"Tom Herman's name has been linked to the Cincinnati vacancy, but sources have told The Blade that he would not be interested," Rowland tweeted. "Herman was born in Ohio but raised in California, and a majority of his career has been spent in the south(west), a region where he has deep connections."

Meanwhile, Enquirer columnist Jason Williams reported later in the day that Tom Herman and Iowa State head coach Matt Campbell are firmly in the mix for UC's open position.

"Tom Herman & Matt Campbell very much in play for #Bearcats job, I’m told," Williams tweeted. "Could be others, just names I’m hearing. Also: UC putting premium on head coaching experience — Urban Meyer isn’t happening, for those fans who were dreaming of that"

Williams did clarify that these are not finalists. Herman never had a losing season at Texas across four years (32-18 record) and won the 2019 Sugar Bowl over Georgia.

"To be clear," He Williams tweeted. "These are not finalists that I’m aware of and I should’ve said there likely are other candidates."

The rumors will surely keep swirling throughout the next week and we'll keep you posted on All Bearcats.

Sources said...
 
11-28-2022 07:03 PM
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