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Kent State @ Houston
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-27-2022 08:53 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(11-26-2022 10:44 PM)bopol Wrote:  I'm glad they played well and I'm glad they are disappointed in the result. I feel like they need to be able to close out these sort of games and get the W, whether it be at Houston, at CoC or at home vs. Northern Illinois. This team could be a legit Top 50 team if the refs let them play D.

Agree, Bopol. I said as much earlier. They have to close out the games in a way that they actually win most of the tight ones. That's what the better Kent State teams over the last 25 seasons did. But like you, I'm glad they are playing really well.

Agree ... except ... all the better teams over the last 25 years had a presence of sorts inside: Gerwig, Big J, Whorton, Kevin Warzynski, JGreene, Q, JHall ...

This team does not, at this point, although there seems to be some hope for Hornbeak. In tough situations, must get the ball inside, even if it is for a kickout, or to draw a foul.

This team is a monster in the making if that comes around.

Otherwise they're Toledo with a defense.
11-27-2022 06:23 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-27-2022 06:23 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(11-27-2022 08:53 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(11-26-2022 10:44 PM)bopol Wrote:  I'm glad they played well and I'm glad they are disappointed in the result. I feel like they need to be able to close out these sort of games and get the W, whether it be at Houston, at CoC or at home vs. Northern Illinois. This team could be a legit Top 50 team if the refs let them play D.

Agree, Bopol. I said as much earlier. They have to close out the games in a way that they actually win most of the tight ones. That's what the better Kent State teams over the last 25 seasons did. But like you, I'm glad they are playing really well.

Agree ... except ... all the better teams over the last 25 years had a presence of sorts inside: Gerwig, Big J, Whorton, Kevin Warzynski, JGreene, Q, JHall ...

This team does not, at this point, although there seems to be some hope for Hornbeak. In tough situations, must get the ball inside, even if it is for a kickout, or to draw a foul.

This team is a monster in the making if that comes around.

Otherwise they're Toledo with a defense.

If Hornbeak (or any other big) averaged 27.4 mpg, 8.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, and 0.8 bpg would you consider him on par with the bigs from 'all the better teams'? Because those are the exact numbers of Gerwig and Edwards added together from the elite 8 season. Personally I think our bigs are very similar to the bigs from that team. Guards too. What we're missing is a player like Gates but this team's guards rebound better than that team's guards so that makes up for it some. And Thomas is a very unique player.
11-27-2022 06:45 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-27-2022 06:45 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-27-2022 06:23 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(11-27-2022 08:53 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(11-26-2022 10:44 PM)bopol Wrote:  I'm glad they played well and I'm glad they are disappointed in the result. I feel like they need to be able to close out these sort of games and get the W, whether it be at Houston, at CoC or at home vs. Northern Illinois. This team could be a legit Top 50 team if the refs let them play D.

Agree, Bopol. I said as much earlier. They have to close out the games in a way that they actually win most of the tight ones. That's what the better Kent State teams over the last 25 seasons did. But like you, I'm glad they are playing really well.

Agree ... except ... all the better teams over the last 25 years had a presence of sorts inside: Gerwig, Big J, Whorton, Kevin Warzynski, JGreene, Q, JHall ...

This team does not, at this point, although there seems to be some hope for Hornbeak. In tough situations, must get the ball inside, even if it is for a kickout, or to draw a foul.

This team is a monster in the making if that comes around.

Otherwise they're Toledo with a defense.

If Hornbeak (or any other big) averaged 27.4 mpg, 8.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, and 0.8 bpg would you consider him on par with the bigs from 'all the better teams'? Because those are the exact numbers of Gerwig and Edwards added together from the elite 8 season. Personally I think our bigs are very similar to the bigs from that team. Guards too. What we're missing is a player like Gates but this team's guards rebound better than that team's guards so that makes up for it some. And Thomas is a very unique player.

Yes!

I have no problem at all with post play by committee. The problem - unlike Gerwig (before his shoulder went out) and JE were a threat to score inside when they got the ball, even though JE never scored double figures in a game until LATE in his junior year - is right now 'Beak doesn't seem to make his presence felt. Understandable at this point and no real complaint ... just saying that is an area to improve on as the season progresses, for the good of the team.

As I recall, JGreen did not make his presence felt significantly until late in the season, either, as a freshman backup.

Repeat: Not a criticism, just an observation.
11-27-2022 06:52 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Kent State @ Houston
Good points, Cleveland and anti-zip. Yeah, Gates was special. He was a "big", even though, I believe, something like 6'3 1/2"? Eric Glenn in an earlier era (1987-1990) was a somewhat similar player, at 6'3". Once they get into conference play, finishing tight games will be more do-able than with a Houston.
11-27-2022 08:55 PM
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Older and Older Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-27-2022 08:55 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  Good points, Cleveland and anti-zip. Yeah, Gates was special. He was a "big", even though, I believe, something like 6'3 1/2"? Eric Glenn in an earlier era (1987-1990) was a somewhat similar player, at 6'3". Once they get into conference play, finishing tight games will be more do-able than with a Houston.

Little bit of Trivia to go with above conversation.

Kent has had only 4 MAC players of the year
Over the years in Men’s Basketball
DeAndre Haynes, IN Kent Hall of fame
Al Fisher. IN Kent Hall of fame
Justin Greene. Not in Hall of fame
Sincere Carry. Not yet eligible

My opinion, Player of the year award by MAC
should get you in Kent HOF. It happens so rarely
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2022 08:42 AM by Older and Older.)
11-28-2022 08:41 AM
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Slinkin Street Flash Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Kent State @ Houston
It looks like that victory over Kent State showed that Houston was good enough to be ranked #1
11-28-2022 01:15 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-28-2022 01:15 PM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  It looks like that victory over Kent State showed that Houston was good enough to be ranked #1

Yup and for Kent State to not get a single vote. 45 voters said with their votes that Houston is #1. But not one of the 45 thought Kent State deserved a vote for #25. Odd.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2022 02:08 PM by Muskrat.)
11-28-2022 01:57 PM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-28-2022 08:41 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  
(11-27-2022 08:55 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  Good points, Cleveland and anti-zip. Yeah, Gates was special. He was a "big", even though, I believe, something like 6'3 1/2"? Eric Glenn in an earlier era (1987-1990) was a somewhat similar player, at 6'3". Once they get into conference play, finishing tight games will be more do-able than with a Houston.

Little bit of Trivia to go with above conversation.

Kent has had only 4 MAC players of the year
Over the years in Men’s Basketball
DeAndre Haynes, IN Kent Hall of fame
Al Fisher. IN Kent Hall of fame
Justin Greene. Not in Hall of fame
Sincere Carry. Not yet eligible

My opinion, Player of the year award by MAC
should get you in Kent HOF. It happens so rarely
Imagine being North Carolina where you need to be a National Player of the Year or two-time All American to be honored.

Quote:North Carolina requires that players must be recognized for excellence for their performance during the regular season, in post-season play, or in the Olympics. Specifically, a player's jersey qualifies for honoring if he receives one or more of the following five awards: first- or second-team All-America on one of the major All-American teams that qualify a player for a consensus All-American designation, an ACC Player of the Year, the Most Valuable Player of a National Championship-winning team (as voted by coaches and teammates), the NCAA basketball tournament Most Outstanding Player of a Final Four team, or a gold medal in basketball at the Olympics.

Additionally, a player can also achieve the even greater honor of having his jersey (along with his uniform number) permanently retired by the University of North Carolina. To attain jersey retirement, a Tar Heel must win one or more of the following six national player of the year awards: Associated Press, National Association of Basketball Coaches, Sporting News, John R. Wooden Award, Oscar Robertson Trophy, or the Naismith College Player of the Year. The (now defunct) Helms Foundation College Basketball Player of the Year award formerly served as a seventh option. The most recent player to merit bestowal of this honor is Tyler Hansbrough, who won all six of the national player of the year awards in his 2007–08 season.
11-28-2022 03:16 PM
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GFlash68 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Kent State @ Houston
And that Portland team that we beat like a drum Lost to Mich. St. by one and had the last shot to win it. The actually looked like the better team.
11-28-2022 06:52 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Kent State @ Houston
I'm not saying Kent State should be IN the top 25, but when 68 of the combined 95 voters in the AP and Coach's poll say that Houston is the best team in the country, you would think that at least ONE of them would give the team that almost beat them a single vote for 25th place.
11-28-2022 07:36 PM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-28-2022 07:36 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  I'm not saying Kent State should be IN the top 25, but when 68 of the combined 95 voters in the AP and Coach's poll say that Houston is the best team in the country, you would think that at least ONE of them would give the team that almost beat them a single vote for 25th place.

Maybe if it was Kent's only loss. It isn't though.
11-28-2022 08:44 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-28-2022 08:44 PM)bopol Wrote:  
(11-28-2022 07:36 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  I'm not saying Kent State should be IN the top 25, but when 68 of the combined 95 voters in the AP and Coach's poll say that Houston is the best team in the country, you would think that at least ONE of them would give the team that almost beat them a single vote for 25th place.

Maybe if it was Kent's only loss. It isn't though.

True, good point, but still I find it odd that not one threw them that little bone, if only for just a week. I mean, one could say that the one-bid MAC just gets no respect, but then all those voters didn't hold it against Houston for almost losing to an unranked mid-major at home, when there are other undefeated teams, like Purdue, they could have voted for. No big deal, of course, but I just expected to see Kent State listed under "Others Receiving Votes" with a point or two. I guess I'm a little naive.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2022 09:01 PM by Muskrat.)
11-28-2022 08:56 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Kent State @ Houston
Folks - people don't give out moral victory votes. We went 0-2 last week.
11-28-2022 10:58 PM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Kent State @ Houston
I agree. Rip off 6 or 7 straight and maybe Kent State finds itself in the "others receiving votes" category.
11-29-2022 08:07 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-28-2022 10:58 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Folks - people don't give out moral victory votes. We went 0-2 last week.

(11-29-2022 08:07 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  I agree. Rip off 6 or 7 straight and maybe Kent State finds itself in the "others receiving votes" category.

I agree with both of you, of course. But I've been following college basketball for 70 (!) years and I have definitely seen such things in the past. i.e a Kent State being thrown a complimentary vote. Maybe such things don't happen anymore. When I started following the game and for a few years thereafter there weren't even divisions in college basketball, and the concepts of "major", "mid-major" divisions I, II and III, "P5" were all in the future. Now things are much more stratified. It's like when the NFL and NBA had many, many more rounds in their drafts. One saw all kinds of stuff in the last couple of rounds. You used to see all kinds of teams getting a single vote.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2022 10:05 AM by Muskrat.)
11-29-2022 10:04 AM
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burden Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Kent State @ Houston
Be honest if you had no rooting interest in either Houston or Kent St would you have been glued to the TV watching a 49-44 college game. Most casual fans would have looked for another game by halftime. Defense is great but it has never done much for ratings or for getting votes.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2022 12:01 PM by burden.)
11-29-2022 12:00 PM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Kent State @ Houston
I find those sort of games curiously arousing.
11-29-2022 12:18 PM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Kent State @ Houston
(11-29-2022 12:18 PM)fallsdog Wrote:  I find those sort of games curiously arousing.

TMI.
11-29-2022 01:46 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Kent State @ Houston
I do see that ESPN's Bracketology today replaced Toledo with Kent as the projected MAC entry, with a #12 seed. I imagine that projection will change numerous times between now and March.
11-29-2022 06:55 PM
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Red Dragon Coog Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Kent State @ Houston
We just destroyed our opponent by 48 points. Kent really does have good defense.
11-29-2022 10:13 PM
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