(11-22-2022 11:11 PM)Claw Wrote:  The left will tie DeSantis to Trump enough to win the election.

Enough of the never Trumpers will become never DeSantisers to swing the election. The never Trumpers are going to kill the country no matter who runs.

Correct---but understand--the "Never DeSantis" crew will likely not be any bigger than the "Never Trump" crew. There are only a limited number of stupid people willing to shoot themselves in the foot in any party. Most members of any party understand that such a behavior is self sabotage in that it ultimatly ends up undermining the Republican political agenda they supposedly believe in.

HOWEVER----that 2024 loss is not written in stone. If the Republicans spend a substantial portion of their war chest building a ballot harvesting operation that rivals the Democrat operation. Then none that traditional strategic crap we are talking about matters anymore. Candidates wont matter. Issues wont matter. Media hit jobs wont matter. It will just be a contest between the harvesting operations. Given that the Republican vote totals are hanging close with no absolutely no harvesting operation at all---any respectably successful Republican harvesting operation at all will likely be enough to swing the race to the Republican side.

Ron DeepStatis is establishment. Harvard/Yale. Elitist. He locked down Florida just like everyone else. He's a pretend Trump copy cat but not very good.

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads..._20-72.pdf

(11-22-2022 07:19 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(11-22-2022 06:16 PM)Claw Wrote:  DeSantis hasn't stopped anyone from coming across the Mexican border.

DeSantis hasn't done anything to stop election issues in other states.

DeSantis hasn't done anything to help domestic energy.

DeSantis hasn't done anything with foreign relations or our military entanglements.

DeSantis hasn't done anything to cut our taxes.

There are all these key issues where Trump is a known quantity and DeSantis is not. This assumption he is going to do what you want is just that - an assumption.

But he did piggy back on Trump while Trump took the early heat on wanting to opening up the country. So while the governor get credit because he was one of the first to open his state back up.....

but not before Trump was calling for it for weeks before and the polls shifted. Then he went against the democrats and experts. Hell as governor he could have opened up the state weeks before but like every politician didn't have the balls till the polls shifted

I personally dont believe he's smart enough to try and bring in working America like Trump and if not there is ZERO and that's ZERO SHOT at winning an election for President. A lot of people on both sides just dont get it.....

Trumps IDEALS connected with a lot of Americans and enough to push him ahead of the machine he was fighting in 2016. Would have been enough in 2020 without all the laws changing on how you could vote. As far as I know I dont see one thing the governor has said to attract those voters....

other than he's not not Biden and we saw how that worked in the mid-terms

All he did was open his state for tourism while northern lib governors closed their states and nobody could travel internationally. Florida makes its money on tourism (Mexico too), it doesn't take a rocket scientist to stay open.

Another good thing: we have 12-18 months to sort this all out (particularly now that the House is in Republican control, and can put the brakes on the worst of the Biden anti-American stupidity).

In that time, Donald Trump will have an opportunity to show that he is past the self-destructive nonsense that caused him to throw away his 2020 reelection, that he understands that the problems facing America are more important than vindicating his own hurt feelings, and that maybe (just maybe) the rules of public behavior that we expect of everyone else apply equally to him also.

Also in that time, Ron DeSantis (and others) will be subjected to the same cheap-shot journalism that has been directed at Donald Trump. We will get to see how he (and others) handle(s) it. Do they wilt, like so many of you seem to think will happen? Or do they stand up to it and fire back effectively - - something Donald Trump clearly has struggled with since catching the world by surprise in 2016.

I honestly have no idea how Ron DeSantis (and others) will perform. WKUYG, Swag, Claw and others make a fair point that he has not been fully tested. And I also admit that I have badly underestimated Donald Trump in the past, and it is quite possible that I am doing so again. But I truly think that his schtick is spent. I suspect that by mid-summer, 2023, Donald Trump will be sidelined. At least I hope so.

(11-22-2022 04:30 PM)Claw Wrote:  I'll say it. He is a RINO.

Why?

He is a career politician who takes a lot of money from people with liberal leanings and ideas. He is beholden to the people who fund him.

Meet the Globalist Billionaires Behind the Presidential Ambitions of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis

Trump is not.

DeSantis might be less RINO than many, many Republicans. But when you compare him to Trump - and that IS the gauge - DeSantis is a RINO.

First...He is not really a career politician. He served 6 years in active duty and currently as a reservist in the Navy and then later was a Federal prosecutor. He is nothing like most of the other lawyers in politics.

Id also submit that Trump is not the gauge for being a Republican. Id say Goldwater and Reagan more fit that bill. Trump is nothing like these 2 in regard to statesmanship, leadership or ideology.

(11-22-2022 11:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-22-2022 10:36 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(11-22-2022 09:12 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The republicans have a problem. I don't think Donald Trump can win the presidency in 2024 unless things get so bad that the media lose all credibility trying to sugarcoat the democrats and witch hunt Trump. But I'm not sure any other republican can win the presidency unless Trump steps aside.

The solution could come from democrats in either of two ways--one, succeed in martyring Trump, or two, run things so badly into the ground that, like Hoover in 1932, no democrat can win in 2024. At this point, I think two is more likely than one.

1. Dems just ballot-harvested their way into a not-too bad situation out of a historic bad election cycle. They could conceivably salvage a Great Depression type Presidential election cycle just as long as they hit the right numbers in a few counties.

2. If GOP allow Dems to do Trump dirty to ‘solve’ the problem’ you won’t need to worry about 2024 because many Trump voters will become despondent. Watch and see it all collapse. There won’t be a rallying around DeSantis or anyone else.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

Remember "Never Trumpers"? So will lots of Trump supporters if some Romney/Ryan/McCain style candidate is the Republican presidential offering. What centrist "Never Trumpers" have done is over the last 6 years is more damaging to the party than anything Trump could possibly do. The RINO "Never Trumpers" destroyed the underlying unspoken promise made to the parties conservative wing---"If you hold your nose and vote for our RINO candidate----we will do the same if non-RINO candidate wins the primary". That promise is over and a RINO will never get those Trump voters---ever. Just as the Democrats doing Bernie wrong was among the reasons Hillary lost to Trump---that "Never Trump" wing of the party potentially damaged the Republican party for multiple future cycles.

Exactly.

If Establishment allow Trump to be steamrolled or has a hand in it; you can kiss 2024 goodbye. It ain’t happening.

(11-23-2022 09:55 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  If Establishment allow Trump to be steamrolled or has a hand in it; you can kiss 2024 goodbye. It ain’t happening.

What does this mean?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Republicans are the source of the Mar-a-Lago scandal. That is the Garland/Wray deep-state at work - - and Donald Trump is directly responsible for at least half of that corrupt team.

But if it means, BTM, that Donald Trump is immune from criticism from Republicans, then count me out. That, more than anything else, is a recipe for losing yet again.

If Donald Trump prevails in a straight-up contest, then I will vote for him in 2024. But if he starts to lose and pulls the crap that I sense you are threatening (and you have my apology if I am misunderstanding you on this), then that is the one and only way I vote 3rd party in 2024.

(11-23-2022 09:54 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-22-2022 04:30 PM)Claw Wrote:  I'll say it. He is a RINO.

Why?

He is a career politician who takes a lot of money from people with liberal leanings and ideas. He is beholden to the people who fund him.

Meet the Globalist Billionaires Behind the Presidential Ambitions of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis

Trump is not.

DeSantis might be less RINO than many, many Republicans. But when you compare him to Trump - and that IS the gauge - DeSantis is a RINO.

First...He is not really a career politician. He served 6 years in active duty and currently as a reservist in the Navy and then later was a Federal prosecutor. He is nothing like most of the other lawyers in politics.

Id also submit that Trump is not the gauge for being a Republican. Id say Goldwater and Reagan more fit that bill. Trump is nothing like these 2 in regard to statesmanship, leadership or ideology.

Yes he is. He wanted Casey to quit her job in journalism because he wanted to be a politician. Plus being appointed a fed prosecutor makes you political in my opinion. However, just because he did those things doesn't mean he's a Rino. Whatever that means now

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

(11-23-2022 10:09 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 09:55 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  If Establishment allow Trump to be steamrolled or has a hand in it; you can kiss 2024 goodbye. It ain’t happening.

What does this mean?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Republicans are the source of the Mar-a-Lago scandal. That is the Garland/Wray deep-state at work - - and Donald Trump is directly responsible for at least half of that corrupt team.

But if it means, BTM, that Donald Trump is immune from criticism from Republicans, then count me out. That, more than anything else, is a recipe for losing yet again.

If Donald Trump prevails in a straight-up contest, then I will vote for him in 2024. But if he starts to lose and pulls the crap that I sense you are threatening (and you have my apology if I am misunderstanding you on this), then that is the one and only way I vote 3rd party in 2024.

The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win the general election (not to mention, if Trump is not the candidate---there will be a sizable internal "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy of 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping limited financial resources into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

(11-23-2022 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:09 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 09:55 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  If Establishment allow Trump to be steamrolled or has a hand in it; you can kiss 2024 goodbye. It ain’t happening.

What does this mean?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Republicans are the source of the Mar-a-Lago scandal. That is the Garland/Wray deep-state at work - - and Donald Trump is directly responsible for at least half of that corrupt team.

But if it means, BTM, that Donald Trump is immune from criticism from Republicans, then count me out. That, more than anything else, is a recipe for losing yet again.

If Donald Trump prevails in a straight-up contest, then I will vote for him in 2024. But if he starts to lose and pulls the crap that I sense you are threatening (and you have my apology if I am misunderstanding you on this), then that is the one and only way I vote 3rd party in 2024.

The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win general election (not to mention there will be a sizable internal Trump "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy in 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping money into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

This makes sense. And perhaps this is what BTM meant - - in which case I yet again have wandered off in an unhelpful direction.

BUT (and you knew there was a but), SOMEONE is going to need to be the Republican nominee in 2024. Do you agree with me that Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and anyone else who thinks they can lead are ALL entitled to a fair shot at that role in a straight-up contest? This means, to me, no immunity from being criticized and no sabotage of the winner by those who come up short.

I suspect most on this forum know what fair-play looks like. I also suspect that Donald Trump has no intention of playing fair. We'll see soon enough.

(11-23-2022 11:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:09 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 09:55 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  If Establishment allow Trump to be steamrolled or has a hand in it; you can kiss 2024 goodbye. It ain’t happening.

What does this mean?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Republicans are the source of the Mar-a-Lago scandal. That is the Garland/Wray deep-state at work - - and Donald Trump is directly responsible for at least half of that corrupt team.

But if it means, BTM, that Donald Trump is immune from criticism from Republicans, then count me out. That, more than anything else, is a recipe for losing yet again.

If Donald Trump prevails in a straight-up contest, then I will vote for him in 2024. But if he starts to lose and pulls the crap that I sense you are threatening (and you have my apology if I am misunderstanding you on this), then that is the one and only way I vote 3rd party in 2024.

The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win general election (not to mention there will be a sizable internal Trump "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy in 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping money into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

This makes sense. And perhaps this is what BTM meant - - in which case I yet again have wandered off in an unhelpful direction.

BUT (and you knew there was a but), SOMEONE is going to need to be the Republican nominee in 2024. Do you agree with me that Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and anyone else who thinks they can lead are ALL entitled to a fair shot at that role in a straight-up contest? This means, to me, no immunity from being criticized and no sabotage of the winner by those who come up short.

I suspect most on this forum know what fair-play looks like. I also suspect that Donald Trump has no intention of playing fair. We'll see soon enough.

Im suggesting that DeSantis is a smart man. I think he will recognize that its impossible to emerge better off than he is now if gets into the ring with Trump in 2024. Even if he wins---he loses because Trump will damage him. DeSantis already has a big stage. If he waits until 2028---he does nothing but improve his presidential status---especially if he becomes the expected "next in line" for Party leadership and also has Trumps support (or at least avoids his direct opposition) in 2028.

That said---Im an old Reagan fan. I do not like the idea of any Republican attacking another Republican. Dont we have enough criticism already coming from the left? So---I dont like it when any Republican criticizes another Republican---including when Trump does it.

(11-23-2022 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 11:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:09 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 09:55 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  If Establishment allow Trump to be steamrolled or has a hand in it; you can kiss 2024 goodbye. It ain’t happening.

What does this mean?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Republicans are the source of the Mar-a-Lago scandal. That is the Garland/Wray deep-state at work - - and Donald Trump is directly responsible for at least half of that corrupt team.

But if it means, BTM, that Donald Trump is immune from criticism from Republicans, then count me out. That, more than anything else, is a recipe for losing yet again.

If Donald Trump prevails in a straight-up contest, then I will vote for him in 2024. But if he starts to lose and pulls the crap that I sense you are threatening (and you have my apology if I am misunderstanding you on this), then that is the one and only way I vote 3rd party in 2024.

The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win general election (not to mention there will be a sizable internal Trump "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy in 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping money into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

This makes sense. And perhaps this is what BTM meant - - in which case I yet again have wandered off in an unhelpful direction.

BUT (and you knew there was a but), SOMEONE is going to need to be the Republican nominee in 2024. Do you agree with me that Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and anyone else who thinks they can lead are ALL entitled to a fair shot at that role in a straight-up contest? This means, to me, no immunity from being criticized and no sabotage of the winner by those who come up short.

I suspect most on this forum know what fair-play looks like. I also suspect that Donald Trump has no intention of playing fair. We'll see soon enough.

Im suggesting that DeSantis is a smart man. I think he will recognize that its impossible to emerge better off than he is now if gets into the ring with Trump in 2024. Even if he wins---he loses because Trump will damage him. DeSantis already has a big stage. If he waits until 2028---he does nothing but improve his presidential status---especially if he becomes the expected "next in line" for Party leadership and also has Trumps support (or at least avoids his direct opposition) in 2028.

That said---Im an old Reagan fan. I do not like the idea of any Republican attacking another Republican. Dont we have enough criticism already coming from the left? So---I dont like it when any Republican criticizes another Republican---including when Trump does it.

Dammit, coog, I actually thought we were on the same page - - or perhaps only a page or two apart.

Criticism and fair competition is part of the process. What you are suggesting is that Ron DeSantis needs to defer to Donald Trump in 2024. Because if he doesn't, Donald Trump will hurt him.

Eff that! And shame on anyone on this board who thinks that way. (Again, if I am misunderstanding your meaning, then you will have my apology.)

But I don't think that I am. You want four more years of Biden (or Newsome or Buttigieg or - - God forbid! - - Warren), then insist that Republicans OWE Donald Trump the nomination in 2024. And if we don't go along with that, then the resulting damage that he will do is on us.

There are plenty who are eager to bend the knee to Lord Donald - - either by virtue of fear or infatuation. It is your right as an American to so debase yourself it you wish. But it is not your right as an American to insist that others do so as well.

The midterms were not about COVID. 2024 won't be either. Nobody has a COVID record worth running on. That's why it's a non-issue. No one "won" COVID. Hopefully it continues to fade away.

(11-23-2022 12:34 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 11:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:09 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  What does this mean?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Republicans are the source of the Mar-a-Lago scandal. That is the Garland/Wray deep-state at work - - and Donald Trump is directly responsible for at least half of that corrupt team.

But if it means, BTM, that Donald Trump is immune from criticism from Republicans, then count me out. That, more than anything else, is a recipe for losing yet again.

If Donald Trump prevails in a straight-up contest, then I will vote for him in 2024. But if he starts to lose and pulls the crap that I sense you are threatening (and you have my apology if I am misunderstanding you on this), then that is the one and only way I vote 3rd party in 2024.

The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win general election (not to mention there will be a sizable internal Trump "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy in 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping money into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

This makes sense. And perhaps this is what BTM meant - - in which case I yet again have wandered off in an unhelpful direction.

BUT (and you knew there was a but), SOMEONE is going to need to be the Republican nominee in 2024. Do you agree with me that Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and anyone else who thinks they can lead are ALL entitled to a fair shot at that role in a straight-up contest? This means, to me, no immunity from being criticized and no sabotage of the winner by those who come up short.

I suspect most on this forum know what fair-play looks like. I also suspect that Donald Trump has no intention of playing fair. We'll see soon enough.

Im suggesting that DeSantis is a smart man. I think he will recognize that its impossible to emerge better off than he is now if gets into the ring with Trump in 2024. Even if he wins---he loses because Trump will damage him. DeSantis already has a big stage. If he waits until 2028---he does nothing but improve his presidential status---especially if he becomes the expected "next in line" for Party leadership and also has Trumps support (or at least avoids his direct opposition) in 2028.

That said---Im an old Reagan fan. I do not like the idea of any Republican attacking another Republican. Dont we have enough criticism already coming from the left? So---I dont like it when any Republican criticizes another Republican---including when Trump does it.

Dammit, coog, I actually thought we were on the same page - - or perhaps only a page or two apart.

Criticism and fair competition is part of the process. What you are suggesting is that Ron DeSantis needs to defer to Donald Trump in 2024. Because if he doesn't, Donald Trump will hurt him.

Eff that! And shame on anyone on this board who thinks that way. (Again, if I am misunderstanding your meaning, then you will have my apology.)

But I don't think that I am. You want four more years of Biden (or Newsome or Buttigieg or - - God forbid! - - Warren), then insist that Republicans OWE Donald Trump the nomination in 2024. And if we don't go along with that, then the resulting damage that he will do is on us.

There are plenty who are eager to bend the knee to Lord Donald - - either by virtue of fear or infatuation. It is your right as an American to so debase yourself it you wish. But it is not your right as an American to insist that others do so as well.

My problem is that those pushing Trump fail miserably to admit that ALL of THIS MESS is HIS fault due to HIS shortcomings as a person and leader. He should have beaten Biden within an inch of his life. Instead...He alienated everyone in the Republican party along with most independents that dared question his BS. He can claim he got cheated until the cows come home. The fact is...HE LOST BECAUSE OF HIMSELF...no one else. WTF would I support this fool after that when
there are sound alternatives to him without his minute by minute nonsense?

(11-23-2022 12:34 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 11:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:09 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  What does this mean?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Republicans are the source of the Mar-a-Lago scandal. That is the Garland/Wray deep-state at work - - and Donald Trump is directly responsible for at least half of that corrupt team.

But if it means, BTM, that Donald Trump is immune from criticism from Republicans, then count me out. That, more than anything else, is a recipe for losing yet again.

If Donald Trump prevails in a straight-up contest, then I will vote for him in 2024. But if he starts to lose and pulls the crap that I sense you are threatening (and you have my apology if I am misunderstanding you on this), then that is the one and only way I vote 3rd party in 2024.

The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win general election (not to mention there will be a sizable internal Trump "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy in 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping money into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

This makes sense. And perhaps this is what BTM meant - - in which case I yet again have wandered off in an unhelpful direction.

BUT (and you knew there was a but), SOMEONE is going to need to be the Republican nominee in 2024. Do you agree with me that Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and anyone else who thinks they can lead are ALL entitled to a fair shot at that role in a straight-up contest? This means, to me, no immunity from being criticized and no sabotage of the winner by those who come up short.

I suspect most on this forum know what fair-play looks like. I also suspect that Donald Trump has no intention of playing fair. We'll see soon enough.

Im suggesting that DeSantis is a smart man. I think he will recognize that its impossible to emerge better off than he is now if gets into the ring with Trump in 2024. Even if he wins---he loses because Trump will damage him. DeSantis already has a big stage. If he waits until 2028---he does nothing but improve his presidential status---especially if he becomes the expected "next in line" for Party leadership and also has Trumps support (or at least avoids his direct opposition) in 2028.

That said---Im an old Reagan fan. I do not like the idea of any Republican attacking another Republican. Dont we have enough criticism already coming from the left? So---I dont like it when any Republican criticizes another Republican---including when Trump does it.

Dammit, coog, I actually thought we were on the same page - - or perhaps only a page or two apart.

Criticism and fair competition is part of the process. What you are suggesting is that Ron DeSantis needs to defer to Donald Trump in 2024. Because if he doesn't, Donald Trump will hurt him.

Eff that! And shame on anyone on this board who thinks that way. (Again, if I am misunderstanding your meaning, then you will have my apology.)

But I don't think that I am. You want four more years of Biden (or Newsome or Buttigieg or - - God forbid! - - Warren), then insist that Republicans OWE Donald Trump the nomination in 2024. And if we don't go along with that, then the resulting damage that he will do is on us.

There are plenty who are eager to bend the knee to Lord Donald - - either by virtue of fear or infatuation. It is your right as an American to so debase yourself it you wish. But it is not your right as an American to insist that others do so as well.

lol. To be clear---obviously I believe anyone should be able to run and/or criticize. Anyone can criticize. That doesnt mean doing so is a good idea. For my part---I just think its better for the Republicans if candidates stick to discussing what they bring to the table and what they are going to do---as opposed to running down the other potential Republican nominees. Unfortunately----Trump doesnt hold to that idea.

(11-23-2022 12:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  lol. To be clear---obviously I believe anyone should be able to run and/or criticize. Anyone can criticize. That doesnt mean doing so is a good idea. For my part---I just think its better for the Republicans if candidates stick to discussing what they bring to the table and what they are going to do---as opposed to running down the other potential Republican nominees. Unfortunately----Trump doesnt hold to that idea.

We agree - - although I don't believe that criticism is necessarily bad. Ron DeSantis, for one example, needs to show the nation that he can stand the heat.

Hopefully that criticism will be on something of substance and not some lame-ass Trump name-calling.

(11-23-2022 12:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 12:34 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 11:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win general election (not to mention there will be a sizable internal Trump "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy in 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping money into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

This makes sense. And perhaps this is what BTM meant - - in which case I yet again have wandered off in an unhelpful direction.

BUT (and you knew there was a but), SOMEONE is going to need to be the Republican nominee in 2024. Do you agree with me that Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and anyone else who thinks they can lead are ALL entitled to a fair shot at that role in a straight-up contest? This means, to me, no immunity from being criticized and no sabotage of the winner by those who come up short.

I suspect most on this forum know what fair-play looks like. I also suspect that Donald Trump has no intention of playing fair. We'll see soon enough.

Im suggesting that DeSantis is a smart man. I think he will recognize that its impossible to emerge better off than he is now if gets into the ring with Trump in 2024. Even if he wins---he loses because Trump will damage him. DeSantis already has a big stage. If he waits until 2028---he does nothing but improve his presidential status---especially if he becomes the expected "next in line" for Party leadership and also has Trumps support (or at least avoids his direct opposition) in 2028.

That said---Im an old Reagan fan. I do not like the idea of any Republican attacking another Republican. Dont we have enough criticism already coming from the left? So---I dont like it when any Republican criticizes another Republican---including when Trump does it.

Dammit, coog, I actually thought we were on the same page - - or perhaps only a page or two apart.

Criticism and fair competition is part of the process. What you are suggesting is that Ron DeSantis needs to defer to Donald Trump in 2024. Because if he doesn't, Donald Trump will hurt him.

Eff that! And shame on anyone on this board who thinks that way. (Again, if I am misunderstanding your meaning, then you will have my apology.)

But I don't think that I am. You want four more years of Biden (or Newsome or Buttigieg or - - God forbid! - - Warren), then insist that Republicans OWE Donald Trump the nomination in 2024. And if we don't go along with that, then the resulting damage that he will do is on us.

There are plenty who are eager to bend the knee to Lord Donald - - either by virtue of fear or infatuation. It is your right as an American to so debase yourself it you wish. But it is not your right as an American to insist that others do so as well.

My problem is that those pushing Trump fail miserably to admit that ALL of THIS MESS is HIS fault due to HIS shortcomings as a person and leader. He should have beaten Biden within an inch of his life. Instead...He alienated everyone in the Republican party along with most independents that dared question his BS. He can claim he got cheated until the cows come home. The fact is...HE LOST BECAUSE OF HIMSELF...no one else. WTF would I support this fool after that when
there are sound alternatives to him without his minute by minute nonsense?

Trump has faults. Every leader does. The difference is the Democrats uniformly support their leader and literally pretend he has no faults (Nancy has actually called dementia ridden Biden "perfect"). Republicans do the exact opposite. We are literally the dumbest party ever. Its why when we get the majority of both houses and the presidency---we still cant get anything done--because we cant hold it together. We always have two or three guys who love to preen for the cameras and shoot the party agenda in the foot.

(11-23-2022 12:34 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 11:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:09 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  What does this mean?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Republicans are the source of the Mar-a-Lago scandal. That is the Garland/Wray deep-state at work - - and Donald Trump is directly responsible for at least half of that corrupt team.

But if it means, BTM, that Donald Trump is immune from criticism from Republicans, then count me out. That, more than anything else, is a recipe for losing yet again.

If Donald Trump prevails in a straight-up contest, then I will vote for him in 2024. But if he starts to lose and pulls the crap that I sense you are threatening (and you have my apology if I am misunderstanding you on this), then that is the one and only way I vote 3rd party in 2024.

The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win general election (not to mention there will be a sizable internal Trump "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy in 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping money into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

This makes sense. And perhaps this is what BTM meant - - in which case I yet again have wandered off in an unhelpful direction.

BUT (and you knew there was a but), SOMEONE is going to need to be the Republican nominee in 2024. Do you agree with me that Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and anyone else who thinks they can lead are ALL entitled to a fair shot at that role in a straight-up contest? This means, to me, no immunity from being criticized and no sabotage of the winner by those who come up short.

I suspect most on this forum know what fair-play looks like. I also suspect that Donald Trump has no intention of playing fair. We'll see soon enough.

Im suggesting that DeSantis is a smart man. I think he will recognize that its impossible to emerge better off than he is now if gets into the ring with Trump in 2024. Even if he wins---he loses because Trump will damage him. DeSantis already has a big stage. If he waits until 2028---he does nothing but improve his presidential status---especially if he becomes the expected "next in line" for Party leadership and also has Trumps support (or at least avoids his direct opposition) in 2028.

That said---Im an old Reagan fan. I do not like the idea of any Republican attacking another Republican. Dont we have enough criticism already coming from the left? So---I dont like it when any Republican criticizes another Republican---including when Trump does it.

Dammit, coog, I actually thought we were on the same page - - or perhaps only a page or two apart.

Criticism and fair competition is part of the process. What you are suggesting is that Ron DeSantis needs to defer to Donald Trump in 2024. Because if he doesn't, Donald Trump will hurt him.

Eff that! And shame on anyone on this board who thinks that way. (Again, if I am misunderstanding your meaning, then you will have my apology.)

But I don't think that I am. You want four more years of Biden (or Newsome or Buttigieg or - - God forbid! - - Warren), then insist that Republicans OWE Donald Trump the nomination in 2024. And if we don't go along with that, then the resulting damage that he will do is on us.

There are plenty who are eager to bend the knee to Lord Donald - - either by virtue of fear or infatuation. It is your right as an American to so debase yourself it you wish. But it is not your right as an American to insist that others do so as well.

The options are clear for Ron D. Run in 2024 and destroy his career. Or defer to Trump and have a shot at 2028. Those are the rules, I don't create them.

(11-24-2022 07:10 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 12:34 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 11:10 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 10:56 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The point is there is no reason to have a bruising primary where the eventual winner is so wounded that he cant the win general election (not to mention there will be a sizable internal Trump "Never X" movement from Trump supporters who remember the RINO's "Never Trump" idiocy in 2020). Not only is a bruising Republican primary a winner for the Democrats----its even more of a DNC win because Republicans would concentrate on pumping money into that primary horse race rather than building a massive national ballot harvesting operation for 2024 (in states where its legal of course). If Republicans harbor any hope of a 2024 win----it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the candidate we run (dementia Biden proved that)----instead, it has EVERYTHING to do with the ballot harvesting operations the Republicans build over the next two years. If they have no ballot harvesting game in 2024---they will lose. Its that simple.

This makes sense. And perhaps this is what BTM meant - - in which case I yet again have wandered off in an unhelpful direction.

BUT (and you knew there was a but), SOMEONE is going to need to be the Republican nominee in 2024. Do you agree with me that Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis and anyone else who thinks they can lead are ALL entitled to a fair shot at that role in a straight-up contest? This means, to me, no immunity from being criticized and no sabotage of the winner by those who come up short.

I suspect most on this forum know what fair-play looks like. I also suspect that Donald Trump has no intention of playing fair. We'll see soon enough.

Im suggesting that DeSantis is a smart man. I think he will recognize that its impossible to emerge better off than he is now if gets into the ring with Trump in 2024. Even if he wins---he loses because Trump will damage him. DeSantis already has a big stage. If he waits until 2028---he does nothing but improve his presidential status---especially if he becomes the expected "next in line" for Party leadership and also has Trumps support (or at least avoids his direct opposition) in 2028.

That said---Im an old Reagan fan. I do not like the idea of any Republican attacking another Republican. Dont we have enough criticism already coming from the left? So---I dont like it when any Republican criticizes another Republican---including when Trump does it.

Dammit, coog, I actually thought we were on the same page - - or perhaps only a page or two apart.

Criticism and fair competition is part of the process. What you are suggesting is that Ron DeSantis needs to defer to Donald Trump in 2024. Because if he doesn't, Donald Trump will hurt him.

Eff that! And shame on anyone on this board who thinks that way. (Again, if I am misunderstanding your meaning, then you will have my apology.)

But I don't think that I am. You want four more years of Biden (or Newsome or Buttigieg or - - God forbid! - - Warren), then insist that Republicans OWE Donald Trump the nomination in 2024. And if we don't go along with that, then the resulting damage that he will do is on us.

There are plenty who are eager to bend the knee to Lord Donald - - either by virtue of fear or infatuation. It is your right as an American to so debase yourself it you wish. But it is not your right as an American to insist that others do so as well.

The options are clear for Ron D. Run in 2024 and destroy his career. Or defer to Trump and have a shot at 2028. Those are the rules, I don't create them.

Pure supposition. Lots of time to see where this shakes out. I think the only reason Trump announced this soon is to try and intimidate any challenger. That might not work out for him as well as he thought.

(11-24-2022 07:18 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-24-2022 07:10 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  The options are clear for Ron D. Run in 2024 and destroy his career. Or defer to Trump and have a shot at 2028. Those are the rules, I don't create them.

Pure supposition. Lots of time to see where this shakes out. I think the only reason Trump announced this soon is to try and intimidate any challenger. That might not work out for him as well as he thought.

That’s my assessment too.

Donald Trump has a talent for many things, including in particular a gift for misplaying winning hands.