I think this is what Frank was talking about re: Big Ten preferring bowls to on-campus playoff games because it's fershluggenah cold in Big Ten country in the wintertime.

My usual counter is that NFL games are played all the time in Big Ten country, often outside. Well, the Bills-Browns game is playing in Buffalo Detroit because Buffalo's going to be under 5-10 feet of snow.

The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Actually, this is more evidence that the Big Ten needs to quit whining about playoffs being at home stadiums.

Frank's claim was that the Big Ten stadiums weren't made to withstand January weather in the Midwest because games had never been played there in January before, and that Big Ten teams would have to suddenly fix their stadiums on just two years' notice. (As if stadium repairs have never been done on two year's notice before.)

But if these problems can actually happen in November, that means that Big Ten have actually had 90 years or so to fix these problems. (Most stadiums having been built circa 1930.) If they haven't already fixed those problems, then that's too bad.

(11-19-2022 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Then why haven't the Big Ten teams "modernized" their stadiums already?

We're supposed to give into what the Big Ten wants because they haven't prepared their stadiums for problems that have actually already occurred during the regular season?

It's absurd.

(11-19-2022 11:31 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

I think this is what Frank was talking about re: Big Ten preferring bowls to on-campus playoff games because it's fershluggenah cold in Big Ten country in the wintertime.

My usual counter is that NFL games are played all the time in Big Ten country, often outside. Well, the Bills-Browns game is playing in Buffalo because Buffalo's going to be under 5-10 feet of snow.

To be correct, Orchard Park (where the stadium is) has 7 feet of snow. Buffalo only has 2 feet (and Amherst, where UB plays, only has a foot.) Stunned that the new Bills stadium is gonna be in the same location as Highmark when every couple of years this happens. Folks in WNY have a decent idea of how Lake Effect works.

(11-19-2022 01:25 PM)Poster Wrote:  Actually, this is more evidence that the Big Ten needs to quit whining about playoffs being at home stadiums.

If they haven't already fixed those problems, then that's too bad.

(11-19-2022 01:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Then why haven't the Big Ten teams "modernized" their stadiums already?

Probably because NFL stadiums regularly see games in December and January, while college stadiums shut it down on Thanksgiving.

Looking at wikipedia, the NFL has moved or rescheduled games 4 times due to winter weather, including this weeks Browns-Bills game. So this kind of weather is a four-times-in-a-century thing.

Three incidents, I suppose. Not counting hurricane events.
2010 Nov 12 snow collapsed the roof of the Metrodome. Nov 13 Vikings game moved to Detroit, Nov 20 game played at University of Minnesota
2010 Dec 26, Philadelphia game delayed from Sunday to Tuesday
2014 Nov 23. Buffalo again, game moved to Detroit again.

Quote:We're supposed to give into what the Big Ten wants because they haven't prepared their stadiums for problems that have actually already occurred during the regular season?

It's been pretty rare.

Google isn't giving me quick results on other winter-weather cancellations. I remember a Dallas bowl being cancelled with Boise STate and Boston College a few years ago because of an ice storm?

Quote:It's absurd.

What's absurd is that you can't seem to recognize the Big Ten as a peer actor in the system with different preferences which need to be negotiated, and so when they disagree with your preferences you stamp your feet and just demand they get in line with what you want.

The weather in the north is different than the weather in the south. And the weather in the north in December and January is different than the weather in the north in October and November.

The Big Ten will winterize their stadiums, since the first round games are happening. That doesn't mean they'd prefer to sit in the stands in Ann Arbor in the freezing cold instead of in the stands in Atlanta or New ORleans or Miami or JerryWorld (or, of course, the Rose Bowl) if they can help it.

(11-19-2022 02:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:25 PM)Poster Wrote:  Actually, this is more evidence that the Big Ten needs to quit whining about playoffs being at home stadiums.

If they haven't already fixed those problems, then that's too bad.

(11-19-2022 01:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Then why haven't the Big Ten teams "modernized" their stadiums already?

Probably because NFL stadiums regularly see games in December and January, while college stadiums shut it down on Thanksgiving.

Looking at wikipedia, the NFL has moved or rescheduled games 4 times due to winter weather, including this weeks Browns-Bills game. So this kind of weather is a four-times-in-a-century thing.

Three incidents, I suppose. Not counting hurricane events.
2010 Nov 12 snow collapsed the roof of the Metrodome. Nov 13 Vikings game moved to Detroit, Nov 20 game played at University of Minnesota
2010 Dec 26, Philadelphia game delayed from Sunday to Tuesday
2014 Nov 23. Buffalo again, game moved to Detroit again.

Quote:We're supposed to give into what the Big Ten wants because they haven't prepared their stadiums for problems that have actually already occurred during the regular season?

It's been pretty rare.

Google isn't giving me quick results on other winter-weather cancellations. I remember a Dallas bowl being cancelled with Boise STate and Boston College a few years ago because of an ice storm?

Quote:It's absurd.

What's absurd is that you can't seem to recognize the Big Ten as a peer actor in the system with different preferences which need to be negotiated, and so when they disagree with your preferences you stamp your feet and just demand they get in line with what you want.

The weather in the north is different than the weather in the south. And the weather in the north in December and January is different than the weather in the north in October and November.

The Big Ten will winterize their stadiums, since the first round games are happening. That doesn't mean they'd prefer to sit in the stands in Ann Arbor in the freezing cold instead of in the stands in Atlanta or New ORleans or Miami or JerryWorld (and, of course, the Rose Bowl) if they can help it.

I notice that you extremely conveniently decided to trim my posts. You cut out the part where I mentioned that apparently these problems have already occurred in November, during the football regular season. The Big Ten has literally had 90 years to fix their stadiums to prevent these problems.


These problems arise four times a century? Eh, based on what you showed me, these types of problems arose four times just in the 2010s. That's hardly four times a century. And that's in the NFL, which has a lot less teams and thus a lot less games than CFB. And all of those incidents occurred in November, when the CFB regular season was still going on.


According to the "scientific consensus on climate change", these winter incidents must have occurred even more often in the past than they occur now.


The bottom line is that Big Ten teams have had decades to fix their stadiums for winter weather, and I have exactly zero sympathy if they have close some of their seats during the playoffs because they never fixed those problems.

(11-19-2022 11:31 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

I think this is what Frank was talking about re: Big Ten preferring bowls to on-campus playoff games because it's fershluggenah cold in Big Ten country in the wintertime.

My usual counter is that NFL games are played all the time in Big Ten country, often outside. Well, the Bills-Browns game is playing in Buffalo because Buffalo's going to be under 5-10 feet of snow.

The east upper deck is exposed. The west upper deck is protected by the buildings below the luxury suites and press boxes. Walkways up to the eastern deck are open and underneath the steel decking of the seating area. The lower bowl appears to be concrete. The only time you would be cold in the stadium is if your team was losing, or the ticket holders in the row below you didn't show up.

The only reason for closing the upper deck is that the lack of running water would not bother those using the restrooms. Frozen water expands bursting pipes leaving a yellow slushy mess.

(11-19-2022 01:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Then why haven't the Big Ten teams "modernized" their stadiums already?

We're supposed to give into what the Big Ten wants because they haven't prepared their stadiums for problems that have actually already occurred during the regular season?

It's absurd.

Sometimes it's not just modern plumbing. For example:

5 Times The Weather Almost Ruined The Super Bowl

Delayed Storm – Super Bowl XLVIII (2014) – East Rutherford, NJ. ...
A “Snowed Under” Super Bowl XLV (2011) – Arlington, TX. ...
Soggy Super Bowl XLI (2007) – Miami, FL. ...
Super Cold-Bowl XVI (1982) – Pontiac, Michigan. ...
Coldest Outdoor Super Bowl VI (1972) – New Orleans, LA.

(11-19-2022 01:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Then why haven't the Big Ten teams "modernized" their stadiums already?

We're supposed to give into what the Big Ten wants because they haven't prepared their stadiums for problems that have actually already occurred during the regular season?

It's absurd.

Just what are they doing with that "P2" money

(11-20-2022 03:55 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Then why haven't the Big Ten teams "modernized" their stadiums already?

We're supposed to give into what the Big Ten wants because they haven't prepared their stadiums for problems that have actually already occurred during the regular season?

It's absurd.

Just what are they doing with that "P2" money

I mean, the first-round on-campus games aren't a real thing yet, and the billion-dollar TV contracts haven't started. Up until now, the problem was presumably solved by draining the pipes after the Thanksgiving weekend rivalry game so that they didn't freeze, and starting them up again for spring football.

This year, the only schools who would have been remotely worried about hosting a December game would be Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State. I expect they'll solve the problem in the next year or so. The others will mostly follow suit over the next 5-10 years. Biggest foot-draggers would probably be the schools where the NFL stadium-next-door is a viable emergency backup plan: Rutgers, Maryland, Northwestern, Minnesota, maaaybe Indiana.

(11-19-2022 11:31 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

I think this is what Frank was talking about re: Big Ten preferring bowls to on-campus playoff games because it's fershluggenah cold in Big Ten country in the wintertime.

My usual counter is that NFL games are played all the time in Big Ten country, often outside. Well, the Bills-Browns game is playing in Buffalo because Buffalo's going to be under 5-10 feet of snow.

you mean it will be played in Detroit instead of Buffalo b/c of the huge amount of snow.

(11-20-2022 04:22 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 11:31 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

I think this is what Frank was talking about re: Big Ten preferring bowls to on-campus playoff games because it's fershluggenah cold in Big Ten country in the wintertime.

My usual counter is that NFL games are played all the time in Big Ten country, often outside. Well, the Bills-Browns game is playing in Buffalo because Buffalo's going to be under 5-10 feet of snow.

you mean it will be played in Detroit instead of Buffalo b/c of the huge amount of snow.

Yes. Oops.

(11-19-2022 01:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Then why haven't the Big Ten teams "modernized" their stadiums already?

We're supposed to give into what the Big Ten wants because they haven't prepared their stadiums for problems that have actually already occurred during the regular season?

It's absurd.

You are truly clueless on what happens outside of the south. Frozen pipes happen. Spartan Stadium and Michigan stadium have hosted Outdoor hockey games in January and February before.
It’s okay to be afraid to play in a cold and snowy weather games. But hey… those AA schools need their paydays in November.

I'm not sure what Michigan St should do in the future, but my big takeaway from this is: move to the South, ye Northerners!

(11-20-2022 04:29 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:31 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(11-19-2022 01:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The outdoor NFL stadiums in the Midwest and Northeast are all much more modern facilities than your typical Big Ten stadium.

Then why haven't the Big Ten teams "modernized" their stadiums already?

We're supposed to give into what the Big Ten wants because they haven't prepared their stadiums for problems that have actually already occurred during the regular season?

It's absurd.

You are truly clueless on what happens outside of the south. Frozen pipes happen. Spartan Stadium and Michigan stadium have hosted Outdoor hockey games in January and February before.
It’s okay to be afraid to play in a cold and snowy weather games. But hey… those AA schools need their paydays in November.

Well, that indicates that Big Ten football stadiums CAN host winter events without pipes bursting, etc.

But the point remains that Big Ten fanbases don't really WANT to. (Notre Dame administration not included). They'd rather take a New Years' trip somewhere with a pleasant climate for a few days. (Or so I have been informed on the board)