"A Republican civil war is erupting at virtually every level of the party, triggered by an underwhelming midterm performance that threatens to destabilize the ranks of Senate, House and national GOP leadership" -

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/15/republi...nell-scott

Assuming the almost certain small GOP House majority materializes, the first battle of this war may be "my Kevin" McCarthy's struggle to be elected Speaker by his caucus. The far right has their knives out, and at least one moderate is already threatening to work with the blue team. With the slim majority the GOP will likely have, 3-4 moderates may be all it takes -

"Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE) told NBC News on that if the GOP Conference can’t agree to elect Kevin McCarthy or any other Republican as speaker on the House floor, then he would be willing to work with Democrats to elect a moderate Republican for the top post.

Said Bacon: “I will support Kevin McCarthy, but if we do get to that point, I do want the country to work and we need to govern. We can’t sit neutral; we can’t have total gridlock for two years.”"

https://politicalwire.com/2022/11/14/gop...r-speaker/

If McCarthy does win the gavel he'll be 2nd in line to Presidency, but he'll be torn asunder from all sides and probably have the most miserable existence in politics.

Closest House split since 1917.

Closest in my lifetime I am pretty sure.

Going to kick off talk of stuff you would have never dreamed of in a normal Congress enjoying an at least +10 vote advantage. The +3 they are talking about is going to make it wild.

(11-14-2022 10:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Closest House split since 1917.

Closest in my lifetime I am pretty sure.

Going to kick off talk of stuff you would have never dreamed of in a normal Congress enjoying an at least +10 vote advantage. The +3 they are talking about is going to make it wild.

Indeed, I think we are going to live that old Chinese curse of "may you live in interesting times"!

(11-14-2022 10:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Closest House split since 1917.

Closest in my lifetime I am pretty sure.

Going to kick off talk of stuff you would have never dreamed of in a normal Congress enjoying an at least +10 vote advantage. The +3 they are talking about is going to make it wild.

The last one was +9 Dems. This looks like pretty similar but flipped to Republicans.

(11-14-2022 10:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 10:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Closest House split since 1917.

Closest in my lifetime I am pretty sure.

Going to kick off talk of stuff you would have never dreamed of in a normal Congress enjoying an at least +10 vote advantage. The +3 they are talking about is going to make it wild.

The last one was +9 Dems. This looks like pretty similar but flipped to Republicans.

+9 gives you a tiny leeway operate as a party.

+3 gives almost none.

With the Senate in Dem control, it doesn't really matter the margin in the House, assuming Rs squeak it out. No legislation will pass anywhere.

Only advantage to Rs is they can call hearings and stop the J6 stuff, and keep any more Biden legislation from passing.

(11-14-2022 11:01 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 10:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 10:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Closest House split since 1917.

Closest in my lifetime I am pretty sure.

Going to kick off talk of stuff you would have never dreamed of in a normal Congress enjoying an at least +10 vote advantage. The +3 they are talking about is going to make it wild.

The last one was +9 Dems. This looks like pretty similar but flipped to Republicans.

+9 gives you a tiny leeway operate as a party.

+3 gives almost none.

Our larger margin helped greatly, plus having Speaker Pelosi at the helm. Love her or hate her, nobody herds cats like Nancy Pelosi. Getting things through the House has rarely been an issue during her Speakerships, and I see nobody with even remotely comparable skills on the GOP side.

(11-14-2022 11:10 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  Our larger margin helped greatly, plus having Speaker Pelosi at the helm. Love her or hate her, nobody herds cats like Nancy Pelosi. Getting things through the House has rarely been an issue during her Speakerships, and I see nobody with even remotely comparable skills on the GOP side.

I find her to be a truly despicable human being, but she has more leadership in her little finger than McConnell and McCarthy combined.

(11-14-2022 11:10 PM)TripleA Wrote:  With the Senate in Dem control, it doesn't really matter the margin in the House, assuming Rs squeak it out. No legislation will pass anywhere.

Only advantage to Rs is they can call hearings and stop the J6 stuff, and keep any more Biden legislation from passing.

You are likely right there, the country will be lucky if we can just get must pass budgetary legislation through without shutdowns.

They're preparing for some legislation in this lame duck, and come January we'll likely convert the Senate to a nearly FT confirmation factory. It will be political malpractice if even one federal judicial vacancy, ambassadorship or other Senate confirmed position is left unfilled at the end of President Biden's first term.

(11-14-2022 11:10 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 11:01 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 10:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 10:47 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Closest House split since 1917.

Closest in my lifetime I am pretty sure.

Going to kick off talk of stuff you would have never dreamed of in a normal Congress enjoying an at least +10 vote advantage. The +3 they are talking about is going to make it wild.

The last one was +9 Dems. This looks like pretty similar but flipped to Republicans.

+9 gives you a tiny leeway operate as a party.

+3 gives almost none.

Our larger margin helped greatly, plus having Speaker Pelosi at the helm. Love her or hate her, nobody herds cats like Nancy Pelosi. Getting things through the House has rarely been an issue during her Speakerships, and I see nobody with even remotely comparable skills on the GOP side.

Pelosi has never had to deal with a schismed party. Its fairly easy to lead a monolith.

On the R side, there are probably 30 congress critters who, think that MAGA rules, and all that MAGA speaks should be obeyed. *That* is why there is the potential for a leader than Democrats may be called in to vote for.

That type of breakout group has never been around in the Dems to give them headaches in the recent or medium past. I can remember the Southern Boll Weevils from the '80s who were the D counterpart to the current R schism, but that was almost half a century ago.

(11-14-2022 11:15 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 11:10 PM)TripleA Wrote:  With the Senate in Dem control, it doesn't really matter the margin in the House, assuming Rs squeak it out. No legislation will pass anywhere.

Only advantage to Rs is they can call hearings and stop the J6 stuff, and keep any more Biden legislation from passing.

You are likely right there, the country will be lucky if we can just get must pass budgetary legislation through without shutdowns.

They're preparing for some legislation in this lame duck, and come January we'll likely convert the Senate to a nearly FT confirmation factory. It will be political malpractice if even one federal judicial vacancy, ambassadorship or other Senate confirmed position is left unfilled at the end of President Biden's first term.

The one thing I am extraordinarily happy about is the slim R lead in the House.

That is because the one thing that the Dems havent taken **** on in the legislative process has been the filibuster for bills. Now there is no incentive for the Dems to pull that trigger.

That does not make up for them shitting on it at the outset via pulling it for appellate and district judges, and for presidential cabinet-type appointments. And they halfway **** on it when they went (and go) down the 'pass by reconciliation' crap that they take such glee in.

Sorry about being harsh, but those are the raw facts.

(11-14-2022 10:30 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  "A Republican civil war is erupting at virtually every level of the party, triggered by an underwhelming midterm performance that threatens to destabilize the ranks of Senate, House and national GOP leadership" -

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/15/republi...nell-scott

Assuming the almost certain small GOP House majority materializes, the first battle of this war may be "my Kevin" McCarthy's struggle to be elected Speaker by his caucus. The far right has their knives out, and at least one moderate is already threatening to work with the blue team. With the slim majority the GOP will likely have, 3-4 moderates may be all it takes -

"Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE) told NBC News on that if the GOP Conference can’t agree to elect Kevin McCarthy or any other Republican as speaker on the House floor, then he would be willing to work with Democrats to elect a moderate Republican for the top post.

Said Bacon: “I will support Kevin McCarthy, but if we do get to that point, I do want the country to work and we need to govern. We can’t sit neutral; we can’t have total gridlock for two years.”"

https://politicalwire.com/2022/11/14/gop...r-speaker/

If McCarthy does win the gavel he'll be 2nd in line to Presidency, but he'll be torn asunder from all sides and probably have the most miserable existence in politics.

I won’t matter—-because that “moderate” speaker won’t be able to pass anything without all of the Growing Freedom Caucus votes (because the Dems aren’t going to break ranks to vote for any Republican bill). The Republicans will have an ugly fight behind closed doors—but whoever they elect will win the majority using only Republican votes because anything less produces a Speaker who has no chance of governing.

The Democrats dealt with their split party by veering hard to the left to satisfy the "squad" and the rest of the Progressives. It will be interesting to see how the Republicans deal with so called split. The funny thing is---there really isnt a split once you get past Trump the individual. The MAGA agenda is basically what DeSantis is selling---just without the Trump baggage. MAGA is nothing more than America First common sense government. So---frankly---where is the big "split" in the Republican Party? Are Republican moderates for "open borders"? Are Republican moderates against energy independence? Are Republican moderates against strong a strong American armed forces? Are Republican moderates for defunding the police? Are Republican moderates against "on-shoring" of manufacturing jobs? Are Republican moderates against tax cuts? Are Republican moderates against the Second Amendment? Trump isnt in the House---and unless we want to spend the entire next two years discussing Jan6th (which I dont think is high on any ones agenda), then where is this so called split between the moderates and MAGA?

I dont think the leadership question is so much a split in the party as it is the come to Jesus moment for the limp weak willed leadership McCarthy and McConnell have displayed the last 2 years. Both have been horrifically ineffective at their respective helms---(McConnell likely being the worst offender of the two). Given their ineffectual---often counterproductive---stewardship, Id feel disappointed if the rank and file Republican members of Congress didnt at least consider changing horses.

The problem is? what if these Moderate Republicans decide to have had enough of the far right loonies who get what they want? Would they switch parties or go as I, and do not support the Republicans? They would be free to vote on some issues with the Dems to get some stuff done, but it could make it were the Republicans will be below the 218 threshold that neither party have control of the house. I would love to see all the Centerists of both parties go Independent with the big I to tell the far extreeme of both sides that the majority of the country wants actions done, but not what the minority of the people on both sides wants.

Liz Cheney for Speaker.

Like I have been saying, Republicans are a bunch of pansies and deserve to lose. I will never support another republican candidate, ever. It is clear what Americans want and it isnt the p%ssy republicans. I will help hasten the end of America as we know it. If everyone wants to be socialists and work their fingers to the bone to give to their leaders, who am I to try to stop them? Clearly the pansy ass Republican leaders arent trying to stop them, why should I?

Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy couldn't lead a sex addict to a whorehouse. The republican party is paying a high price for having such incompetent and ineffective leaders.

(11-14-2022 11:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 10:30 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  "A Republican civil war is erupting at virtually every level of the party, triggered by an underwhelming midterm performance that threatens to destabilize the ranks of Senate, House and national GOP leadership" -

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/15/republi...nell-scott

Assuming the almost certain small GOP House majority materializes, the first battle of this war may be "my Kevin" McCarthy's struggle to be elected Speaker by his caucus. The far right has their knives out, and at least one moderate is already threatening to work with the blue team. With the slim majority the GOP will likely have, 3-4 moderates may be all it takes -

"Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE) told NBC News on that if the GOP Conference can’t agree to elect Kevin McCarthy or any other Republican as speaker on the House floor, then he would be willing to work with Democrats to elect a moderate Republican for the top post.

Said Bacon: “I will support Kevin McCarthy, but if we do get to that point, I do want the country to work and we need to govern. We can’t sit neutral; we can’t have total gridlock for two years.”"

https://politicalwire.com/2022/11/14/gop...r-speaker/

If McCarthy does win the gavel he'll be 2nd in line to Presidency, but he'll be torn asunder from all sides and probably have the most miserable existence in politics.

I won’t matter—-because that “moderate” speaker won’t be able to pass anything without all of the Growing Freedom Caucus votes (because the Dems aren’t going to break ranks to vote for any Republican bill). The Republicans will have an ugly fight behind closed doors—but whoever they elect will win the majority using only Republican votes because anything less produces a Speaker who has no chance of governing.

The Democrats dealt with their split party by veering hard to the left to satisfy the "squad" and the rest of the Progressives. It will be interesting to see how the Republicans deal with so called split. The funny thing is---there really isnt a split once you get past Trump the individual. The MAGA agenda is basically what DeSantis is selling---just without the Trump baggage. MAGA is nothing more than America First common sense government. So---frankly---where is the big "split" in the Republican Party? Are Republican moderates for "open borders"? Are Republican moderates against energy independence? Are Republican moderates against strong a strong American armed forces? Are Republican moderates for defunding the police? Are Republican moderates against "on-shoring" of manufacturing jobs? Are Republican moderates against tax cuts? Trump isnt in the House---and unless we want to spend the entire next two years discussing Jan6th (which I dont think is high on any ones agenda), then where is this so called split between the moderates and MAGA?

I dont think the leadership question is so much a split in the party as it is the come to Jesus moment for the limp weak willed leadership McCarthy and McConnell have displayed the last 2 years. Both have been horrifically ineffective at their respective helms---(McConnell likely being the worst offender of the two). Given their ineffectual---often counterproductive---stewardship, Id feel disappointed if the rank and file Republican members of Congress didnt at least consider changing horses.

No, we won't advance much if any of the Biden agenda legislatively if Democrats and a few moderate Republicans join together to install a moderate Republican Speaker. That ship sailed when the voters provided an almost-certain at this point slim majority for the GOP. But the Speaker controls what comes to the floor for a vote, and we'd be able to keep the government funded, continue supporting Ukraine to victory, and deal with other emergencies as they arise. The Freedom Caucus, The Squad and other extremists can all wring their hands and gnash their teeth in impotent rage while, for example, Speaker Kasich leads the House and keeps the lights on throughout the government.

If all the stars align and this comes to pass, it might just provide a boost to centrism and sanity. The American people by and large don't want extremism and drama, that's the problem with both Trump and The Squad. This near even House is a perfect opportunity for the middle to rise up and lead as they should have been doing all along.

(11-15-2022 07:37 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  The Freedom Caucus, The Squad and other extremists can all wring their hands and gnash their teeth in impotent rage while, for example, Speaker Kasich leads the House and keeps the lights on throughout the government.

If all the stars align and this comes to pass, it might just provide a boost to centrism and sanity. The American people by and large don't want extremism and drama, that's the problem with both Trump and The Squad. This near even House is a perfect opportunity for the middle to rise up and lead as they should have been doing all along.

What a lost soul. You really believe this bilge? The dems and Bidet are the extremists. Putting America first as Trump did is an extreme position? Bidet and his cronies put Ukraine before America. I call that extreme.

Over 70% of those polled think this country is heading in the wrong direction. Yet, during the election, the vast majority of incumbents were re-elected. Figure that one out.

I would hardly call negotiations a civil war.

(11-15-2022 07:37 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 11:59 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 10:30 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  "A Republican civil war is erupting at virtually every level of the party, triggered by an underwhelming midterm performance that threatens to destabilize the ranks of Senate, House and national GOP leadership" -

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/15/republi...nell-scott

Assuming the almost certain small GOP House majority materializes, the first battle of this war may be "my Kevin" McCarthy's struggle to be elected Speaker by his caucus. The far right has their knives out, and at least one moderate is already threatening to work with the blue team. With the slim majority the GOP will likely have, 3-4 moderates may be all it takes -

"Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE) told NBC News on that if the GOP Conference can’t agree to elect Kevin McCarthy or any other Republican as speaker on the House floor, then he would be willing to work with Democrats to elect a moderate Republican for the top post.

Said Bacon: “I will support Kevin McCarthy, but if we do get to that point, I do want the country to work and we need to govern. We can’t sit neutral; we can’t have total gridlock for two years.”"

https://politicalwire.com/2022/11/14/gop...r-speaker/

If McCarthy does win the gavel he'll be 2nd in line to Presidency, but he'll be torn asunder from all sides and probably have the most miserable existence in politics.

I won’t matter—-because that “moderate” speaker won’t be able to pass anything without all of the Growing Freedom Caucus votes (because the Dems aren’t going to break ranks to vote for any Republican bill). The Republicans will have an ugly fight behind closed doors—but whoever they elect will win the majority using only Republican votes because anything less produces a Speaker who has no chance of governing.

The Democrats dealt with their split party by veering hard to the left to satisfy the "squad" and the rest of the Progressives. It will be interesting to see how the Republicans deal with so called split. The funny thing is---there really isnt a split once you get past Trump the individual. The MAGA agenda is basically what DeSantis is selling---just without the Trump baggage. MAGA is nothing more than America First common sense government. So---frankly---where is the big "split" in the Republican Party? Are Republican moderates for "open borders"? Are Republican moderates against energy independence? Are Republican moderates against strong a strong American armed forces? Are Republican moderates for defunding the police? Are Republican moderates against "on-shoring" of manufacturing jobs? Are Republican moderates against tax cuts? Trump isnt in the House---and unless we want to spend the entire next two years discussing Jan6th (which I dont think is high on any ones agenda), then where is this so called split between the moderates and MAGA?

I dont think the leadership question is so much a split in the party as it is the come to Jesus moment for the limp weak willed leadership McCarthy and McConnell have displayed the last 2 years. Both have been horrifically ineffective at their respective helms---(McConnell likely being the worst offender of the two). Given their ineffectual---often counterproductive---stewardship, Id feel disappointed if the rank and file Republican members of Congress didnt at least consider changing horses.

No, we won't advance much if any of the Biden agenda legislatively if Democrats and a few moderate Republicans join together to install a moderate Republican Speaker. That ship sailed when the voters provided an almost-certain at this point slim majority for the GOP. But the Speaker controls what comes to the floor for a vote, and we'd be able to keep the government funded, continue supporting Ukraine to victory, and deal with other emergencies as they arise. The Freedom Caucus, The Squad and other extremists can all wring their hands and gnash their teeth in impotent rage while, for example, Speaker Kasich leads the House and keeps the lights on throughout the government.

If all the stars align and this comes to pass, it might just provide a boost to centrism and sanity. The American people by and large don't want extremism and drama, that's the problem with both Trump and The Squad. This near even House is a perfect opportunity for the middle to rise up and lead as they should have been doing all along.

Kasich make Donald and Barry look like they have small egos. Total nut job. Last person I would want there. He was a Republican and didn't even understand the issue on the gay wedding cakes, insulting those who supported the Constitution.

Donald isn't extreme in the least. His policies are all pretty mainstream. Now drama.....