(11-17-2022 06:43 PM)Purple Wrote: (11-17-2022 05:05 PM)94computerguy Wrote: (11-17-2022 03:26 PM)Purple Wrote: As an old soldier, that is sickening to me. To call The Star-Spangled Banner "nationalistic propaganda" is absolutely sickening! And, I am not saying that you're a bad person, just that you have forgotten so much or never knew it to begin with, and that is incredibly sad.
As an old soldier, that is sickening to me. To call The Star-Spangled Banner "nationalistic propaganda" is absolutely sickening! And, I am not saying that you're a bad person, just that you have forgotten so much or never knew it to begin with, and that is incredibly sad.
How do you know that I have forgotten or didn't know any particular thing? Is it simply because I've reached a different conclusion than you, and that you can't imagine someone reaching a different conclusion? Have I asserted anything from which you can conclusively infer I am misinformed?
The one thing that should bring us all together is that flag. So many have died for it that your right to call our national anthem "nationalistic propaganda" would be preserved. Enjoy your protected rights, even if you haven't a clue where they came from and the sacrifices that were made for their preservation.
The song, in itself, is not nationalist propaganda. However, 50-yard flags, a sideline full of soldiers, and a flyover of a B-52, a B-1, and a B-2, is. To call it anything other than a celebration of military might is willfully misinterpreting things.
Incidentally, while I am misinformed and weak in my knowledge of history, a thing that crosses my mind when I hear the Star-Spangled Banner is a passage from the third verse:
"No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave"
this is in reference to the US Marine Corps' threats to the slaves and enlistees who'd decided to fight on the British side during the war of 1812.
Now, it's completely legitimate that you would predominantly think of how much you love America when you hear that song, and of the sacrifices of your comrades. However, it is fair for people to remember other things. And if those thoughts sicken you, then perhaps that could be a good source of introspection.
I will gladly stand beside you as you sit and sneer at what you blindly see as "nationalistic propaganda," and while I find your disrespect depressingly sad
It seems that we're dealing with a shifting interpretation of respect and appreciation. Now if I think displays of military might are propagandistic, that's disrespect for the military?
I never said that this is about me.
Well, I think I can be forgiven for concluding that you intended this to be about you, since you started your last post with "that is sickening to me." Maybe it was the word "me" that threw me off.
It isn't! To me, this is about those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. I can only imagine how their families feel watching the sitting and kneeling. If you can't see how they may be very hurt by that, then you just don't get it.
So is the idea that every sporting event requires 90 to 120 seconds of silence for fallen soldiers? It's not really about our love for country then, it's a compulsory demonstration of thanks for people who fought for my freedoms in various wars, correct?
If this demonstration of respect and appreciation were about the fallen, why are the flyovers not done in missing-man formation? Is that not the universally-accepted way of expressing appreciation to the fallen? If I were a veteran, frankly, I'd be insulted by any show of "thanks to the troops" that did not explicitly mention the dead with such a solemn expression. But such expressions are sorely lacking, in my opinion.
But, I get it. It is all cool and woke and progressive to sit on one's ass smiling as the national anthem is being played. How are those who do that any better than the woke hippies who screamed at our soldiers in the airports and on the streets?
The only way that sitting during the anthem would be an insult to soldiers is if the whole point of the anthem is for the soldiers to demand our appreciation.
And a world where not joining in the appreciative effort is as much of an insult as calling a draftee a "baby killer" is a world with some very thin skins.
And while we're talking about "woke", which I almost always hear from conservatives much more than from liberals, I suppose "woke" is just really another way of saying "brings up historical points that I find counter to my narrative or otherwise inconvenient." For instance, is learning about the Lumberton or Tulsa race riots woke? Is asking questions about the policies of various police forces in the disparities of their law enforcement practices "woke"?
And, this isn't about politics, as you suggest. It is a social issue. It is about an American tradition as old as the game itself, like throwing out the first pitch in MLB.
The first documented time the Star Spangled Banner was ever played at a sporting event was 1918. That's not as old as the game. (Ceremonial first pitches started in the 60s.)
Of course, I'm the one that's misinformed. I forgot that "as old as the game" really means "at least as far back as I know.", especially for the college-educated.
Also, if you think politics don't involve "social issues", then I'd love to know what you think they do involve.
The bottom line is if 49,500 fans in a stadium stand for the national anthem (Howard example notwithstanding) and 500 decide to kneel or sit, most doing it not because they are on some warped crusade, but because it is an attention-grabbing play, making them look cool and woke. So, why should that 1% rule the day?
So having a different opinion than yours is either a "warped crusade" or an attention-grabbing play? Are there other options available, such as a legitimate grievance with the actions of the state, for which that the first amendment explicitly protects the rights of citizens to seek redress?
Anyway, why is 1% non-compliance "ruling the day" by not standing? I mean, the game still got played, right? I think "ruling the day" would be getting the national anthem cancelled. (Oh, didn't mean to say "cancelled" - that's so woke of me. How about disappropriated?)
I suppose it might ruin your day, but that can't be your point, since this isn't about you.
I know! If you would rather not stand for the national anthem, tailgate a little longer and take your seat after the anthem has been played. Everyone's a winner!
You know what else would work just as well? You can stay in the parking lot and play the anthem in your car. That way you won't have to see any warped crusades, woke whiners, or anything else you don't want. Does that seem like a win-win to you?
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JMU MBB @ Howard 7pm 11/15/22
