(11-14-2022 11:18 PM)HCJag Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 10:46 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 09:03 PM)HCJag Wrote:  I believe many if not all of those countries require the voter to specifically request a ballot to be sent to their home address, with proof of identification. Didn't Nevada mail ballots to all registered voters? Pretty big difference. Could be wrong, but I believe I read that somewhere.

And France recently came to their senses and banned mail in voting.

Jag you're right, Nevada did mail ballots to all registered voters this year -

https://news.ballotpedia.org/2020/08/12/...-election/

I don't think that is good policy, it's financially wasteful and does lead to the potential for the totally uninterested to easily sell their vote to others. It made a little more sense in 2020 during the height of the pandemic, but I definitely do not support the automatic mailing of ballots to all voters outside a time of crisis. I'd support a federal law banning that practice nationwide, provided the same law also mandates that all states allow absentee ballots upon the request of any registered voter rather than requiring you meet one of their acceptable reasons to vote absentee as several states do today. I think voting should require something from the voter, whether it is physically going to the polls or requesting an absentee ballot be sent to you. I want all legal voters who want to vote to be able to do so easily and conveniently, I do not want to encourage the ignorant and uninterested to vote just because they can.

Looks like that is from the Covid year, but nine states plus DC currently mail out ballots to all registered voters. All of them heavily blue except Utah. You might say that it wouldn't make that big of a difference since these states are so blue, but there are pockets of red in almost all of them.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/states-au...eda4731ce1

Oops you are right, thanks! My link was from 2020, glad you shared a better one which does confirm Nevada is one of those 9. states.

Game - keep in mind that your party wants to nationalize election law and allow 100% vote by mail by federal law.

I guess the only solution is to get in the gutter with them and ramp up Republican harvesting operations.

(11-14-2022 02:56 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 02:50 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 02:35 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  The idea of voting being private and personal is where mail in voting really seems to muck up the system.

That really makes no sense.

I think Democrats would be fine with voting telepathically.

Just as some Republicans are fine with declassifying classified material telepathically.

(11-14-2022 12:37 PM)mlb Wrote:  So here's my question... when did the post office become such a problem?
Sensitive financial information is sent through the mail.
Sensitive healthcare information is sent through the mail.
Social Security numbers are sent through the mail.
Bank account information is sent though the mail.
Tax information is sent through the mail.
It is still a felony to open up someone else's mail.
If all of those things are acceptable, why would a ballot not be? Especially when it is tracked through the entire process.

I don't think the major issue is what happens in the hands of the postal service, although that is certainly of some concern. I think the major issue is over what gets into those envelopes before they get to the post office.

(11-14-2022 04:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:27 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  The MAJORITY has wanted a lot of fcking things Tom. That does not make them GOOD things. Having a damn election still in question a fcking week later due to mail in balloting is a BAD way to run an election...PERIOD.

Your need to know the result now is meaningless! I don't believe any state has certified their results yet. This takes time to get it right. I just can't fathom how you cannot understand this.

No state has officially called any of their races as done as far as I know. The media does this based on up to date results using projection models, NOT THE STATE! So what do you do if the results are only different by a few votes? You want them to just pick a winner because it's still in question 6 days later and YOU think that is ridiculous and YOU need to know?

We didn't have much mail in voting in 2020, but did we know the Presidential result 6 days after the election? No.

We had Covid problems Tom..and YOU know that. Stop being obtuse.

WTF does anything you or I just said here have to do with Covid?

We decided the election in 6 days during a pandemic. The complications of Covid caused the delay and was understandable. Mail-in balloting alone caused the delay this time.

You're only referring to the national media calling the election for Biden within 6 days...and actually it was more like 4. But again, that does not mean whatsoever that all the votes were counted or that any state had officially certified their final election counts!

Additionally, IIRC, Maricopa County actually received MORE mail-in ballots for this election than they did in the 2020 presidential election.

And again, why does it matter how quickly the media calls a race for a candidate? It's merely a race for them to say they got the scoop on the results call.

Finally, it doesn't matter one iota how quickly any election is "decided". If the vote is close it's going to take more time if there's 500 people voting or 1 million people voting because you have to deal with absentee ballots, challenged ballots, cured ballots, late-arriving mail ballots where allowed, and any other type of vote that's allowed according to state law.

There's scores of explainers available on the web about why Arizona and other states take this long to count. None of which place the blame on anything nefarious. I still can't fathom why anyone still does not understand this.

If the residents of a state want quicker results they need to have their state change their laws...and I have ZERO issue with that as long as it's not done to purposely squelch the vote. You can count mail in ballots earlier, you can prohibit after election day receipt of mail ballots if they're currently allowed in your state, you can hire more election workers, start voting earlier, get more scanners, and a host of other things. But again, if the election is close you're STILL going to be waiting this long for an official winner. And pretty sure, there's not one state yet who has certified their election results.

(11-14-2022 09:03 PM)HCJag Wrote:  I believe many if not all of those countries require the voter to specifically request a ballot to be sent to their home address, with proof of identification. Didn't Nevada mail ballots to all registered voters? Pretty big difference. Could be wrong, but I believe I read that somewhere.

And France recently came to their senses and banned mail in voting.

According to this, it's always been this way.

Quote:PARIS (AP) — French voters in Sunday’s presidential election will use the same system that’s been used for generations: paper ballots that are cast in person and counted by hand. Despite periodic calls for more flexibility or modernization, France doesn’t do mail-in voting, early voting or use voting machines en masse like the United States.

https://apnews.com/article/covid-health-...d008f04cd3

France also has 67 million people. We have 330 million.

(11-15-2022 09:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  There's scores of explainers available on the web about why Arizona and other states take this long to count. None of which place the blame on anything nefarious. I still can't fathom why anyone still does not understand this.

They don't want to understand Tom, they just want to win. And since they stubbornly refuse to recognize that the majority of the electorate disfavors their policies and make changes, and also refuse to utilize the system we have to maximum legal advantage rather than railing against it, there is nothing left for them but to cry "fraud!"

Former SC Senator Jim Demint once lamented the RINOs in his caucus and said something like "I'd rather have 30 like me in the Senate than have a majority filled with RINOs". They're well on their way to achieving his goal, and I hope they enjoy it. I know I'm going to.

(11-15-2022 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 09:03 PM)HCJag Wrote:  I believe many if not all of those countries require the voter to specifically request a ballot to be sent to their home address, with proof of identification. Didn't Nevada mail ballots to all registered voters? Pretty big difference. Could be wrong, but I believe I read that somewhere.

And France recently came to their senses and banned mail in voting.

According to this, it's always been this way.

Quote:PARIS (AP) — French voters in Sunday’s presidential election will use the same system that’s been used for generations: paper ballots that are cast in person and counted by hand. Despite periodic calls for more flexibility or modernization, France doesn’t do mail-in voting, early voting or use voting machines en masse like the United States.

https://apnews.com/article/covid-health-...d008f04cd3

France also has 67 million people. We have 330 million.

OK. I saw a couple of articles where they banned it after 2020, so they must have allowed it during Covid. Before that, it was banned in 1975 due to voter fraud concerns. Not sure what difference it makes on what the population is.

(11-15-2022 11:55 AM)HCJag Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 09:03 PM)HCJag Wrote:  I believe many if not all of those countries require the voter to specifically request a ballot to be sent to their home address, with proof of identification. Didn't Nevada mail ballots to all registered voters? Pretty big difference. Could be wrong, but I believe I read that somewhere.

And France recently came to their senses and banned mail in voting.

According to this, it's always been this way.

Quote:PARIS (AP) — French voters in Sunday’s presidential election will use the same system that’s been used for generations: paper ballots that are cast in person and counted by hand. Despite periodic calls for more flexibility or modernization, France doesn’t do mail-in voting, early voting or use voting machines en masse like the United States.

https://apnews.com/article/covid-health-...d008f04cd3

France also has 67 million people. We have 330 million.

OK. I saw a couple of articles where they banned it after 2020, so they must have allowed it during Covid. Before that, it was banned in 1975 due to voter fraud concerns. Not sure what difference it makes on what the population is.

Much easier to hand-count a lot less ballots. But in case you weren't aware, errors are MORE frequent when done by hand than by machine. I would have little faith in millions of hand-counted ballots without it being done several times.

(11-15-2022 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 09:03 PM)HCJag Wrote:  I believe many if not all of those countries require the voter to specifically request a ballot to be sent to their home address, with proof of identification. Didn't Nevada mail ballots to all registered voters? Pretty big difference. Could be wrong, but I believe I read that somewhere.

And France recently came to their senses and banned mail in voting.

According to this, it's always been this way.

Quote:PARIS (AP) — French voters in Sunday’s presidential election will use the same system that’s been used for generations: paper ballots that are cast in person and counted by hand. Despite periodic calls for more flexibility or modernization, France doesn’t do mail-in voting, early voting or use voting machines en masse like the United States.

https://apnews.com/article/covid-health-...d008f04cd3

France also has 67 million people. We have 330 million.

Excuses excuses

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

(11-15-2022 12:06 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 09:03 PM)HCJag Wrote:  I believe many if not all of those countries require the voter to specifically request a ballot to be sent to their home address, with proof of identification. Didn't Nevada mail ballots to all registered voters? Pretty big difference. Could be wrong, but I believe I read that somewhere.

And France recently came to their senses and banned mail in voting.

According to this, it's always been this way.

Quote:PARIS (AP) — French voters in Sunday’s presidential election will use the same system that’s been used for generations: paper ballots that are cast in person and counted by hand. Despite periodic calls for more flexibility or modernization, France doesn’t do mail-in voting, early voting or use voting machines en masse like the United States.

https://apnews.com/article/covid-health-...d008f04cd3

France also has 67 million people. We have 330 million.

Excuses excuses

Perhaps you can highlight the excuses for me...

(11-15-2022 09:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 04:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Your need to know the result now is meaningless! I don't believe any state has certified their results yet. This takes time to get it right. I just can't fathom how you cannot understand this.

No state has officially called any of their races as done as far as I know. The media does this based on up to date results using projection models, NOT THE STATE! So what do you do if the results are only different by a few votes? You want them to just pick a winner because it's still in question 6 days later and YOU think that is ridiculous and YOU need to know?

We didn't have much mail in voting in 2020, but did we know the Presidential result 6 days after the election? No.

We had Covid problems Tom..and YOU know that. Stop being obtuse.

WTF does anything you or I just said here have to do with Covid?

We decided the election in 6 days during a pandemic. The complications of Covid caused the delay and was understandable. Mail-in balloting alone caused the delay this time.

You're only referring to the national media calling the election for Biden within 6 days...and actually it was more like 4. But again, that does not mean whatsoever that all the votes were counted or that any state had officially certified their final election counts!

Additionally, IIRC, Maricopa County actually received MORE mail-in ballots for this election than they did in the 2020 presidential election.

And again, why does it matter how quickly the media calls a race for a candidate? It's merely a race for them to say they got the scoop on the results call.

Finally, it doesn't matter one iota how quickly any election is "decided". If the vote is close it's going to take more time if there's 500 people voting or 1 million people voting because you have to deal with absentee ballots, challenged ballots, cured ballots, late-arriving mail ballots where allowed, and any other type of vote that's allowed according to state law.

There's scores of explainers available on the web about why Arizona and other states take this long to count. None of which place the blame on anything nefarious. I still can't fathom why anyone still does not understand this.

If the residents of a state want quicker results they need to have their state change their laws...and I have ZERO issue with that as long as it's not done to purposely squelch the vote. You can count mail in ballots earlier, you can prohibit after election day receipt of mail ballots if they're currently allowed in your state, you can hire more election workers, start voting earlier, get more scanners, and a host of other things. But again, if the election is close you're STILL going to be waiting this long for an official winner. And pretty sure, there's not one state yet who has certified their election results.

Listen to all of Tom's excuses, covering for the fact that this country used to be able to do all of this on the night of the election, or in some cases, by the next morning and we all knew the results. The longer you string this out, the more opportunities there are for fraud. Dems know this, even though they won't admit it because it is part of their strategy.

Funny how Florida changed some election laws and had their counting done on election night, yet they have 5 times the population of AZ.

This has been done to us by design. Changes to election laws and procedures, some during covid has been an effort to get us used to longer and longer time frames as if it is 'normal.' Mail-in ballots, 'curing' ballots, ballot harvesting, etc. are all contributing to a loss of faith in the institution of our election systems by the public.

Anybody know who the mayor of L.A. is? Asking for a friend.

(11-15-2022 12:06 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:26 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  [quote='HCJag' pid='18588009' dateline='1668477823']
I believe many if not all of those countries require the voter to specifically request a ballot to be sent to their home address, with proof of identification. Didn't Nevada mail ballots to all registered voters? Pretty big difference. Could be wrong, but I believe I read that somewhere.

And France recently came to their senses and banned mail in voting.

According to this, it's always been this way.

Quote:PARIS (AP) — French voters in Sunday’s presidential election will use the same system that’s been used for generations: paper ballots that are cast in person and counted by hand. Despite periodic calls for more flexibility or modernization, France doesn’t do mail-in voting, early voting or use voting machines en masse like the United States.

https://apnews.com/article/covid-health-...d008f04cd3

France also has 67 million people. We have 330 million.

I'm not against mail-in voting. I enjoy voting by mail and have done so the last several elections.

But, I would point out that the Paris metro area has about 13 million people. That's larger than every US metro area except for New York and LA. The France-USA population comparison supports the argument that Maricopa County and other US states and jurisdictions can and should be much more efficient with their voting and counting processes.

(11-14-2022 07:53 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  All of these things are the MOST common low tech way to steal someone's identity and since when do crooks care about it being a felony to open someone's mail, they're already breaking the law taking the mail. Me personally I do not get any of the items mentioned by USPS mail any longer. Also all these items I get email/electronically I've set up two factor authentication to reduce identity theft risk.

Yet your financial institution is okay with sending your credit/debit card and statements through the mail, should you choose that.

(11-14-2022 11:00 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Also, I mail hundreds of statements every month and invariably get phone calls by the dozens from people saying they never received it. Our mail trucks in our area stay broke down and routes do not get delivered sometimes for multiple days. Their fleet has to be twenty plus years old.

Do yourself a favor an overnight something that absolutely has to be delivered next day and let me how that works out for you?

I can tell you some horror stories of how it has worked for me.

Same as I said above... financial institutions still feel comfortable sending new cards, statements, etc., through the mail. It is way easier to steal a person's identity through the things they put in the trash, or even easier through phishing scams than it is by stealing mail. Somehow I've never had mine stolen (KNOCKING ON WOOD) but I know people who have had theirs stolen dozens of times. I still think there is a behavior online that is much more susceptible to fraud/stolen identity.

(11-15-2022 12:44 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 07:53 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  All of these things are the MOST common low tech way to steal someone's identity and since when do crooks care about it being a felony to open someone's mail, they're already breaking the law taking the mail. Me personally I do not get any of the items mentioned by USPS mail any longer. Also all these items I get email/electronically I've set up two factor authentication to reduce identity theft risk.

Yet your financial institution is okay with sending your credit/debit card and statements through the mail, should you choose that.

And they, not you eat the cost of any fraud that results from it.

(11-15-2022 12:44 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 07:53 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  All of these things are the MOST common low tech way to steal someone's identity and since when do crooks care about it being a felony to open someone's mail, they're already breaking the law taking the mail. Me personally I do not get any of the items mentioned by USPS mail any longer. Also all these items I get email/electronically I've set up two factor authentication to reduce identity theft risk.

Yet your financial institution is okay with sending your credit/debit card and statements through the mail, should you choose that.

.....Exactly the reason I don't allow any of my financial information to be mailed. I don't trust it. One of my best friends is a postal worker close to retirement. He long ago told me he did not trust the mail in this regard.

(11-15-2022 01:43 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  .....Exactly the reason I don't allow any of my financial information to be mailed. I don't trust it. One of my best friends is a postal worker close to retirement. He long ago told me he did not trust the mail in this regard.

My dad retired from the post office in 2005, he said a nickel would stay on the floor for days because everyone was afraid to pick it up and be accused of stealing. So to each their own...

(11-15-2022 12:23 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(11-15-2022 09:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 04:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:38 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2022 03:33 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  We had Covid problems Tom..and YOU know that. Stop being obtuse.

WTF does anything you or I just said here have to do with Covid?

We decided the election in 6 days during a pandemic. The complications of Covid caused the delay and was understandable. Mail-in balloting alone caused the delay this time.

You're only referring to the national media calling the election for Biden within 6 days...and actually it was more like 4. But again, that does not mean whatsoever that all the votes were counted or that any state had officially certified their final election counts!

Additionally, IIRC, Maricopa County actually received MORE mail-in ballots for this election than they did in the 2020 presidential election.

And again, why does it matter how quickly the media calls a race for a candidate? It's merely a race for them to say they got the scoop on the results call.

Finally, it doesn't matter one iota how quickly any election is "decided". If the vote is close it's going to take more time if there's 500 people voting or 1 million people voting because you have to deal with absentee ballots, challenged ballots, cured ballots, late-arriving mail ballots where allowed, and any other type of vote that's allowed according to state law.

There's scores of explainers available on the web about why Arizona and other states take this long to count. None of which place the blame on anything nefarious. I still can't fathom why anyone still does not understand this.

If the residents of a state want quicker results they need to have their state change their laws...and I have ZERO issue with that as long as it's not done to purposely squelch the vote. You can count mail in ballots earlier, you can prohibit after election day receipt of mail ballots if they're currently allowed in your state, you can hire more election workers, start voting earlier, get more scanners, and a host of other things. But again, if the election is close you're STILL going to be waiting this long for an official winner. And pretty sure, there's not one state yet who has certified their election results.

Listen to all of Tom's excuses, covering for the fact that this country used to be able to do all of this on the night of the election, or in some cases, by the next morning and we all knew the results. The longer you string this out, the more opportunities there are for fraud. Dems know this, even though they won't admit it because it is part of their strategy.

Funny how Florida changed some election laws and had their counting done on election night, yet they have 5 times the population of AZ.

This has been done to us by design. Changes to election laws and procedures, some during covid has been an effort to get us used to longer and longer time frames as if it is 'normal.' Mail-in ballots, 'curing' ballots, ballot harvesting, etc. are all contributing to a loss of faith in the institution of our election systems by the public.

Again with this nonsense. If Arizona wasn't close we would have likely had a projection on election night, just like Florida. And FWIW - FLORIDA IS NOT DONE COUNTING YET!

And again, news agencies and pundits call races, states don't. They only certify results two-three weeks after election...you know...when they're done counting.

I'm providing facts, not excuses. And I've actually also provided ways that the counting could be accelerated and have noted this would require changes to state law. You, on the other hand, just keep sky screaming about things you don't seem to much understand.