Putin is getting a lot of push back from the citizens in his country. Protests are getting louder in Moscow as more and more people are getting restless against the war with all the loses piling up for him. State run news media are starting to turn on him.

(11-12-2022 09:23 AM)Tigers2B1 Wrote:  

(11-11-2022 06:24 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  A message from "Putin's Brain"... The guy whose car was blown up by the Ukrainians in Moscow. Got his ultra nationalist daughter instead.

This sounds seriously like Dugin is calling for Putin's removal. To replace and what is essentially a kleptocracy for a more nazi-like fascist type state. I would think it's a little dangerous for him to come out with this statement, unless Putin's power is that diminished.

Dugin's social media statement on Telegram has apparently been deleted whether by him or someone else. Link

https://www.outlookindia.com/internation...ews-236898

(11-12-2022 09:27 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:22 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:09 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  I do find it odd TC (the person that only eats grass) is so enthralled with warfare and death.

If your lumping me into this Putin Supporter, I’ve been clear from day 1 that US funding will do nothing but escalate (nuclear talk happened), cause more death (obviously happened), and prolong the stupid war (happening).

I have friends (3) and a cousin currently in the NATO bordering nations as U.S. military personnel. They are so pissed off and have been since day 1 about our stance on this war. Russia going into a NATO nation was never a threat and laughable.

Enjoy further bloodshed TC. I’ve also been clear from day 1 I give a F about Ukraine. They literally are just as bad as Russia. I see little difference in Putin/Zelensky. Both power hungry POS that will sacrifice their own people.

President Zelensky and Ukraine aren't perfect, but any attempt to equate Zelensky with Putin plays right into the hands of Kremlin propaganda and misinformation. At no point in its history as an independent nation have we seen the armed forces of Ukraine deployed outside their internationally recognized sovereign borders attempting to carve off bits of their neighbors by force. That, to me, is a very significant difference.

Understood. Doesn’t mean U.S. tax payer money should go to causing more deaths.

We should have stayed out of it totally outside condemning Russia. They would have gotten their eastern parts of Ukraine and this dam thing would be over + it’s not our or no one else’s war besides Ukraine and Russia. Hence why are we supporting this so much is because we got our guy in finally as leader of Ukraine. Only reason. Simple as that. NATO was never at threat until the nuclear talk escalation.

They didn’t want the eastern part of Ukraine—they wanted it all. I’d also note that we were one of three nations that made security guarantees to Ukraine in order to convince them to give up their nukes in the 1990’s. The Ukrainians kept their promise and destroyed their nukes. The Ukrainians were also there when we asked them for help, contributing troops to our coalition in Iraq. As for Russia, they supplied our enemies with weapons in Korea and Vietnam—-and were apparently paying bounties for US coalition deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. We supplied their enemies in Afghanistan. Nothing new is going on here.

(11-12-2022 09:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Putin is getting a lot of push back from the citizens in his country. Protests are getting louder in Moscow as more and more people are getting restless against the war with all the loses piling up for him. State run news media are starting to turn on him.

Because mobilization is now requiring more and more rank and file Russian dads and sons to die in Ukraine—-for no good reason. There is no threat to Russia in Ukraine—-never has been. This was always about a “Katherine the Great” type legacy for Putin’s ego. It’s a vanity war of choice—-nothing more. This NATO started it crap is absolute preposterous rubbish.

(11-12-2022 10:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:27 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:22 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:09 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  I do find it odd TC (the person that only eats grass) is so enthralled with warfare and death.

If your lumping me into this Putin Supporter, I’ve been clear from day 1 that US funding will do nothing but escalate (nuclear talk happened), cause more death (obviously happened), and prolong the stupid war (happening).

I have friends (3) and a cousin currently in the NATO bordering nations as U.S. military personnel. They are so pissed off and have been since day 1 about our stance on this war. Russia going into a NATO nation was never a threat and laughable.

Enjoy further bloodshed TC. I’ve also been clear from day 1 I give a F about Ukraine. They literally are just as bad as Russia. I see little difference in Putin/Zelensky. Both power hungry POS that will sacrifice their own people.

President Zelensky and Ukraine aren't perfect, but any attempt to equate Zelensky with Putin plays right into the hands of Kremlin propaganda and misinformation. At no point in its history as an independent nation have we seen the armed forces of Ukraine deployed outside their internationally recognized sovereign borders attempting to carve off bits of their neighbors by force. That, to me, is a very significant difference.

Understood. Doesn’t mean U.S. tax payer money should go to causing more deaths.

We should have stayed out of it totally outside condemning Russia. They would have gotten their eastern parts of Ukraine and this dam thing would be over + it’s not our or no one else’s war besides Ukraine and Russia. Hence why are we supporting this so much is because we got our guy in finally as leader of Ukraine. Only reason. Simple as that. NATO was never at threat until the nuclear talk escalation.

They didn’t want the eastern part of Ukraine—they wanted it all. I’d also note that we were one of three nations that made security guarantees to Ukraine in order to convince them to give up their nukes in the 1990’s. The Ukrainians kept their promise and destroyed their nukes. The Ukrainians were also there when we asked them for help, contributing troops to our coalition in Iraq. As for Russia, they supplied our enemies with weapons in Korea and Vietnam—-and were apparently paying bounties for US coalition deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. We supplied their enemies in Afghanistan. Nothing new is going on here.

They sold off a bunch of that nuke tech to NK. How many times do I have to say in UN (or whichever is the respected one) corruption rankings over the last 20 years they were always ranked higher than Russia. It’s about as pos government/country as they come.

Big wow. Like we needed help from the Ukes in Iraq? I’m sure the Ukes got something great out of it from us.

Again I know we disagree mightily. All I’ve ever wanted is the war to end ASAP. I give a F who wins. It’s stupid war that Americans should not care about just like my friends and cousin that are on the bordering countries all wondering why it’s not over by now but knowing the answer as it’s obvious.

As always, y’all carry along with your cheerleading of more death on both sides. Go blue and yellow yay!!!

(11-12-2022 11:38 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 10:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:27 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:22 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:09 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  I do find it odd TC (the person that only eats grass) is so enthralled with warfare and death.

If your lumping me into this Putin Supporter, I’ve been clear from day 1 that US funding will do nothing but escalate (nuclear talk happened), cause more death (obviously happened), and prolong the stupid war (happening).

I have friends (3) and a cousin currently in the NATO bordering nations as U.S. military personnel. They are so pissed off and have been since day 1 about our stance on this war. Russia going into a NATO nation was never a threat and laughable.

Enjoy further bloodshed TC. I’ve also been clear from day 1 I give a F about Ukraine. They literally are just as bad as Russia. I see little difference in Putin/Zelensky. Both power hungry POS that will sacrifice their own people.

President Zelensky and Ukraine aren't perfect, but any attempt to equate Zelensky with Putin plays right into the hands of Kremlin propaganda and misinformation. At no point in its history as an independent nation have we seen the armed forces of Ukraine deployed outside their internationally recognized sovereign borders attempting to carve off bits of their neighbors by force. That, to me, is a very significant difference.

Understood. Doesn’t mean U.S. tax payer money should go to causing more deaths.

We should have stayed out of it totally outside condemning Russia. They would have gotten their eastern parts of Ukraine and this dam thing would be over + it’s not our or no one else’s war besides Ukraine and Russia. Hence why are we supporting this so much is because we got our guy in finally as leader of Ukraine. Only reason. Simple as that. NATO was never at threat until the nuclear talk escalation.

They didn’t want the eastern part of Ukraine—they wanted it all. I’d also note that we were one of three nations that made security guarantees to Ukraine in order to convince them to give up their nukes in the 1990’s. The Ukrainians kept their promise and destroyed their nukes. The Ukrainians were also there when we asked them for help, contributing troops to our coalition in Iraq. As for Russia, they supplied our enemies with weapons in Korea and Vietnam—-and were apparently paying bounties for US coalition deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. We supplied their enemies in Afghanistan. Nothing new is going on here.

They sold off a bunch of that nuke tech to NK. How many times do I have to say in UN (or whichever is the respected one) corruption rankings over the last 20 years they were always ranked higher than Russia. It’s about as pos government/country as they come.

Big wow. Like we needed help from the Ukes in Iraq? I’m sure the Ukes got something great out of it from us.

Again I know we disagree mightily. All I’ve ever wanted is the war to end ASAP. I give a F who wins. It’s stupid war that Americans should not care about just like my friends and cousin that are on the bordering countries all wondering why it’s not over by now but knowing the answer as it’s obvious.

As always, y’all carry along with your cheerleading of more death on both sides. Go blue and yellow yay!!!

lol. I never said the Ukrainians were corruption free (neither are we for that matter---just look at the who's in the White House). Thats why they were nowhere close to a NATO invite. Never said we "needed" Ukraine's help in Iraq. What I said is they contributed combat troops to the international coalition when we asked---something some of our "friends" did not. They also kept their word when they promised to get rid of their nuclear weapons---and we gave them security guarantees in exchange. We did not give anything approaching an Article 5 guarantee---nor are we supporting them in a way that even approaches an Article 5 guarantee. We are giving them very limited weapons capability---and almost all of the weapons systems being delivered are exclusively defensive in nature. Frankly, if Russia cannot defeat and pacify Ukraine---then any concern over anticipated Russian moves into the NATO Baltic states is blocked--which means Americans soldiers will not have to face off directly against Russian troops. I think thats a good thing.

(11-12-2022 11:38 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 10:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:27 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:22 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(11-12-2022 09:09 AM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  I do find it odd TC (the person that only eats grass) is so enthralled with warfare and death.

If your lumping me into this Putin Supporter, I’ve been clear from day 1 that US funding will do nothing but escalate (nuclear talk happened), cause more death (obviously happened), and prolong the stupid war (happening).

I have friends (3) and a cousin currently in the NATO bordering nations as U.S. military personnel. They are so pissed off and have been since day 1 about our stance on this war. Russia going into a NATO nation was never a threat and laughable.

Enjoy further bloodshed TC. I’ve also been clear from day 1 I give a F about Ukraine. They literally are just as bad as Russia. I see little difference in Putin/Zelensky. Both power hungry POS that will sacrifice their own people.

President Zelensky and Ukraine aren't perfect, but any attempt to equate Zelensky with Putin plays right into the hands of Kremlin propaganda and misinformation. At no point in its history as an independent nation have we seen the armed forces of Ukraine deployed outside their internationally recognized sovereign borders attempting to carve off bits of their neighbors by force. That, to me, is a very significant difference.

Understood. Doesn’t mean U.S. tax payer money should go to causing more deaths.

We should have stayed out of it totally outside condemning Russia. They would have gotten their eastern parts of Ukraine and this dam thing would be over + it’s not our or no one else’s war besides Ukraine and Russia. Hence why are we supporting this so much is because we got our guy in finally as leader of Ukraine. Only reason. Simple as that. NATO was never at threat until the nuclear talk escalation.

They didn’t want the eastern part of Ukraine—they wanted it all. I’d also note that we were one of three nations that made security guarantees to Ukraine in order to convince them to give up their nukes in the 1990’s. The Ukrainians kept their promise and destroyed their nukes. The Ukrainians were also there when we asked them for help, contributing troops to our coalition in Iraq. As for Russia, they supplied our enemies with weapons in Korea and Vietnam—-and were apparently paying bounties for US coalition deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. We supplied their enemies in Afghanistan. Nothing new is going on here.

They sold off a bunch of that nuke tech to NK. How many times do I have to say in UN (or whichever is the respected one) corruption rankings over the last 20 years they were always ranked higher than Russia. It’s about as pos government/country as they come.

Big wow. Like we needed help from the Ukes in Iraq? I’m sure the Ukes got something great out of it from us.

Again I know we disagree mightily. All I’ve ever wanted is the war to end ASAP. I give a F who wins. It’s stupid war that Americans should not care about just like my friends and cousin that are on the bordering countries all wondering why it’s not over by now but knowing the answer as it’s obvious.

As always, y’all carry along with your cheerleading of more death on both sides. Go blue and yellow yay!!!

No, we didn't need Ukrainian troops to turn the tide of battle. But we greatly valued the diplomatic value provided by Ukraine and other Eastern European allies (Poland IIRC was one of, if not the largest, contributors of troops) to our operations in Iraq which provided a multinational component to a globally unpopular and failed war. They gave us their stamp of approval and participation which was more what we needed than another battalion of troops. We are now returning the favor as well as weakening an adversary on favorable terrain (not the US, not NATO) which is a no-brainer decision and a win all around.

(11-12-2022 01:16 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  I don’t even want to get onto the Iraq disaster. But good to hear America and Ukes teamed up again on another lie of weapons of mass destruction and “democracy” aka (oil) and implemented another failed “democracy” which allowed extremist in the fullest extent (ISIS) to prosper.

Enough BS wars is what I am for. I’m watching football the rest of the day!

Attackcoog and Gamenole enjoy your days

Couldnt agree more. The only difference between us is I think what we are doing in Ukraine is preventing a NATO vs Russia war and you do not. Other than that, I suspect we agree far more than we disagree. Good luck to your team today!

(11-12-2022 01:16 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  I don’t even want to get onto the Iraq disaster. But good to hear America and Ukes teamed up again on another lie of weapons of mass destruction and “democracy” aka (oil) and implemented another failed “democracy” which allowed extremist in the fullest extent (ISIS) to prosper.

Enough BS wars is what I am for. I’m watching football the rest of the day!

Attackcoog and Gamenole enjoy your days

An excellent idea! From the Ohio State score I expect you are enjoying it, have a great day.

Interesting opinion piece. I suspect he's right, and the Russians will hole up in Crimea and threaten to use nukes if it is seriously threatened. Putin himself elevated Crimea into a huge issue of national pride when he stole it back in 2014, and I doubt his rule could withstand its loss -

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-sec...e-a-river/

Putin's circle of friends is getting smaller, although it isn't exactly a win for us. Influence lost by Russia in Central Asia will probably be China's gain -

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/17/russia-...kazakhstan

(11-17-2022 08:41 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  Interesting opinion piece. I suspect he's right, and the Russians will hole up in Crimea and threaten to use nukes if it is seriously threatened. Putin himself elevated Crimea into a huge issue of national pride when he stole it back in 2014, and I doubt his rule could withstand its loss -

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-sec...e-a-river/

Maybe. Crimea is really hard to supply. I think Russia could potentially end up losing Crimea---or at least a big chunk of it. The strategy in other areas is use HIMARS to degrade the supply lines and ammo-dumps behind the Russian lines and once thats in shambles---then push against poorly supplied troops to move forward. Thats going to work very well in Crimea. In a month, the Ukrainians will have a domestically built suicide drone thats very similar to the big Shahed-136 Iranian suicide drone being used against Ukraine---so the range at which supply dumps have to move to stay out range of Ukrainian weapons strikes will go from 40-50 miles (HIMARS) to as much as 1000 miles. In other words, they wont be able to move supplies out of range and still get stuff to their troops----and with American satellite data and resistance fighters feeding the Ukrainians target data----well---at that point, Crimea simply becomes incredibly difficult to hold.

By the same token, I think the Donbas region is going to be almost impossible to retake. Best case for the Ukrainians is they reclaim Crimea and some of that "land bridge" area to its south (likely as part of the assault on Crimea). Donbas sits on the Russian border giving Russian almost the same home field advantage the Ukrainians have everywhere else. A "hold what you have" there would be a win in my opinion. I suspect both the US and China have made it very clear to Putin that nukes are not an option unless Russia (this would not include any territory claimed by Ukraine prior to 2014) is invaded. I honestly think the last real battle is for Crimea. After that, I think both sides will see all thats left is an endless meat grinding stalemate in the Donbas and hopefully will finally be ready for real substantive negotiations.