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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #261
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(10-31-2022 06:55 PM)holybovine Wrote:  I’m surprised so many people are afraid of change because it could fail. Is there a big difference between 4 wins and 6/7 without any bowl wins, championship appearances, etc.? I don’t think so, but obviously I’m in the minority.

And what if we got someone better? A lot of people are saying CC is EMU’s greatest ever coach. I disagree vehemently. He’s our best supported and well-funded coach. I don’t think most of you realize how little our admin supported football financially before CC. If that resource commitment continued with a new coach, I think most would do as well, if not better.

Risk aversion makes sense when thinking about going from good to great. But to be afraid to leave .500 land is…sad.

I obviously couldn’t agree more. There has been exactly one season where we finished above .500 in MAC play under Creighton. And we are afraid of losing that? It’s a far easier job to sell to a potential coach now than it was when we hired Creighton, and he deserves the credit he gets for that. But he’s showed us exactly who he is as a coach ever since 2018, and I don’t know why we should expect anything different moving forward. Our 4th quarter offense against Toledo gave me total Ken Karcher vibes, when we used to run Alex Gillett up the middle 3 times and then punt. Something HAS to change.

But of course, his contract means we are stuck with him until he leaves, or the mediocrity consistently starts to falter. Or if bovine or I win the Mega Millions and give the school more than enough buy-out money.
11-01-2022 05:46 AM
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Sellers dweller Offline
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Post: #262
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 05:46 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 06:55 PM)holybovine Wrote:  I’m surprised so many people are afraid of change because it could fail. Is there a big difference between 4 wins and 6/7 without any bowl wins, championship appearances, etc.? I don’t think so, but obviously I’m in the minority.

And what if we got someone better? A lot of people are saying CC is EMU’s greatest ever coach. I disagree vehemently. He’s our best supported and well-funded coach. I don’t think most of you realize how little our admin supported football financially before CC. If that resource commitment continued with a new coach, I think most would do as well, if not better.

Risk aversion makes sense when thinking about going from good to great. But to be afraid to leave .500 land is…sad.

I obviously couldn’t agree more. There has been exactly one season where we finished above .500 in MAC play under Creighton. And we are afraid of losing that? It’s a far easier job to sell to a potential coach now than it was when we hired Creighton, and he deserves the credit he gets for that. But he’s showed us exactly who he is as a coach ever since 2018, and I don’t know why we should expect anything different moving forward. Our 4th quarter offense against Toledo gave me total Ken Karcher vibes, when we used to run Alex Gillett up the middle 3 times and then punt. Something HAS to change.

But of course, his contract means we are stuck with him until he leaves, or the mediocrity consistently starts to falter. Or if bovine or I win the Mega Millions and give the school more than enough buy-out money.

The fact he calls the plays makes it more frustrating to me. As we have said he doesn't seem to want to learn from his mistakes as a play caller, especially late in games with a small lead. Our offense has regressed over the past few years, since the turnaround in 2016, I always thought our offense was fairly explosive at times, and had some creative moments...now those times are few and far between it seems. I know he is a very loyal guy, but he needs to shake up his coaching staff. Brian Kelly did it a few years back at Notre Dame to great success, Harbaugh did it at UofM just a couple years back and its worked great for him.

Others have done it as well, I'm not saying Creighton is on the level of those guys but things need to change up.
11-01-2022 06:09 AM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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Post: #263
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(10-31-2022 06:57 PM)holybovine Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 07:04 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 06:25 AM)Sellers dweller Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 06:09 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(10-30-2022 07:27 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear EagleHawk,
I hope you are wrong about Creighton hanging around, but if you are correct, then we have 5-7, 6-6, or maybe 7-5 records to look forward to eternity.
Poll all the coaches in America and you will find that the EMU head coaching job is the least desirable job in DI football. It just is. Just the fact that some people are calling for his firing after narrowly losing to Toledo highlights how far this program has come since he took over. Thankfully, most people understand this.

I think the whole situation with Creighton can be summed up by what by boss once told me. I had a co-worker who came in every day, their work was not great, but they got somethings done and you could at leas count on them being there. My boss was often frustrated with some of the quality of their work and I asked why we don't...move on from that person. He told me "at least I know what I'm going to get." He went on to explain that sure we could get rid of this person, but will anyone then apply for the opening? The employee isn't THAT bad, so it was possible their replacement could be worse.

I think most people are worried about the unknown. Who would replace him? Would they even be able to do a better job? No one really knows the answers to those questions.

I'm quite frustrated, but I'm not all in on the FIRE CREIGHTON crew. What I would like to see him do is give up control of the offense and try to find someone with an innovated offensive mind. That would probably take some $$ from the University that I don't know if he could get, or trying to find some young up and comer from a lower level.

Good post.

With the help of Wikipedia, I'm going to use the AKRON ZIPS as an example of what happens when thing go bad (changing HCs):

J. D. Brookhart 2004–09 30–42 .417
Rob Ianello 2010–11 2–22 .083
Terry Bowden 2012–2018 35–52 .402
Tom Arth 2019–2021 3–24 .111
Joe Moorhead 2022–pres. 1-8 .111

Let's look at this picture:

J.D. Brookhart had a losing record and eventually got fired.

Next up Rob Ianello who was a disaster... and got fired.

Next up Terry Bowden who righted the ship but eventually got fired too.

Next up Tom Arth, another disaster, and got fired.

And now Joe Moorhead, with a not too gaudy 1 - 8 record as he awaits EMU.

Do we see a pattern here??? (I do 03-idea).

It’s funny you chose Akron to prove your point. I think they’re going to beat us next week.
Vegas might disagree. Hell, everyone on earth disagrees.
11-01-2022 06:36 AM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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Post: #264
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 03:50 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 07:10 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear holybovine,
I agree, and I'm with you in your opening statement. I also agree with the fact that Creighton is not Eastern's greatest coach ever. Very good post.

Since this is the Toledo game site, I just want to add what a bunch of cry babies over there. They win the game, but you would think they were somehow cheated out of a greater victory. Complaining about officiating, Eastern got all the breaks, they were giving the game away and Eastern couldn't take the win. What ever happened to be happy that you won the game?

Lets see Ken number of wins, number of bowl games, beating P5 opponents for the first time etc. I don't know what metrics you use to define greatest coach because NO other EMU coach outside of Creighton has done these things.
I'm sure he thinks it is Boisture, from the olden days when EMU was Division VIII and played NE Kentucky State Tech in the Covered Wagon Bowl.
11-01-2022 06:41 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #265
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 06:41 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 03:50 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 07:10 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear holybovine,
I agree, and I'm with you in your opening statement. I also agree with the fact that Creighton is not Eastern's greatest coach ever. Very good post.

Since this is the Toledo game site, I just want to add what a bunch of cry babies over there. They win the game, but you would think they were somehow cheated out of a greater victory. Complaining about officiating, Eastern got all the breaks, they were giving the game away and Eastern couldn't take the win. What ever happened to be happy that you won the game?

Lets see Ken number of wins, number of bowl games, beating P5 opponents for the first time etc. I don't know what metrics you use to define greatest coach because NO other EMU coach outside of Creighton has done these things.
I'm sure he thinks it is Boisture, from the olden days when EMU was Division VIII and played NE Kentucky State Tech in the Covered Wagon Bowl.

One bowl for Boisture and Harkema? Sorry I wasn't around for the Covered Wagon Bowl. Did they have a Custer's Last Stand bowl back then too?
11-01-2022 07:43 AM
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dansplaining Online
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Post: #266
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
as i lions fan i can attest how hard and rare it can be to hire the RIGHT person to run an organization. i dont for one second trust we can hire a guy better than the best hire the program has ever had.
11-01-2022 07:54 AM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 07:54 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  as i lions fan i can attest how hard and rare it can be to hire the RIGHT person to run an organization. i dont for one second trust we can hire a guy better than the best hire the program has ever had.
Amen. Risk/reward. It took years just to become a viable program. Anyone really want to roll the dice on a guy who will probably not be any good? As an added bonus, if by some miracle, they do find the second coming of Nick Saban (Toledo) or Urban Meyer (Bowling Green) he would be gone so fast, the ghost of Elton Rynearson's head would spin. Creighton has us on the cusp (against all odds), just gotta hope he can take it to the next level.
11-01-2022 08:07 AM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #268
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 07:54 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  as i lions fan i can attest how hard and rare it can be to hire the RIGHT person to run an organization. i dont for one second trust we can hire a guy better than the best hire the program has ever had.

Using by far the worst organization in all of pro sports is a bit of an outlier. A completely mediocre coach has produced completely mediocre results at EMU. Are you saying we could never hire a mediocre coach again? Especially with the resources we put into the football program now?
11-01-2022 08:32 AM
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Ken Barna Offline
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
Dear emu79,
The metrics that you use to show how good a coach Creighton is, are okay, but miss the fact that most coaches are evaluated on overall wins. On that metric, Creighton fails after nine years.
Wickersham belittles Coach Boisture and the teams Eastern played under his era. But does not realize that winning those games is what propelled Eastern into the MAC Conference. Boisture never had a losing season in the seven years he was head coach. Even with that, I don't consider him Eastern's greatest coach.
Times are different in today's college football, I will admit that, but to continue down the path of mediocrity is foolish.
11-01-2022 09:05 AM
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EAGLE KING Offline
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Post: #270
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 08:07 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 07:54 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  as i lions fan i can attest how hard and rare it can be to hire the RIGHT person to run an organization. i dont for one second trust we can hire a guy better than the best hire the program has ever had.
Amen. Risk/reward. It took years just to become a viable program. Anyone really want to roll the dice on a guy who will probably not be any good? As an added bonus, if by some miracle, they do find the second coming of Nick Saban (Toledo) or Urban Meyer (Bowling Green) he would be gone so fast, the ghost of Elton Rynearson's head would spin. Creighton has us on the cusp (against all odds), just gotta hope he can take it to the next level.

In the words of Ted Lasso, "It's the hope that kills you." He has had plenty of time in which he has proven he cannot take us to the next level. Stop being scared that the next guy will fail, so instead lets just watch the current guy fail to meet expectations.
11-01-2022 09:06 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #271
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 06:41 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 03:50 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 07:10 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear holybovine,
I agree, and I'm with you in your opening statement. I also agree with the fact that Creighton is not Eastern's greatest coach ever. Very good post.

Since this is the Toledo game site, I just want to add what a bunch of cry babies over there. They win the game, but you would think they were somehow cheated out of a greater victory. Complaining about officiating, Eastern got all the breaks, they were giving the game away and Eastern couldn't take the win. What ever happened to be happy that you won the game?

Lets see Ken number of wins, number of bowl games, beating P5 opponents for the first time etc. I don't know what metrics you use to define greatest coach because NO other EMU coach outside of Creighton has done these things.
I'm sure he thinks it is Boisture, from the olden days when EMU was Division VIII and played NE Kentucky State Tech in the Covered Wagon Bowl.

Ken that was an EMU fan that posted EMU got all the breaks on the Toledo Board. And yes Toledo fans were pissed that the Rockets kept shooting themselves in the foot. Penalties
and turnovers that were huge Rocket errors. EMU is about 4 or 5 key players from being a very good MAC team. Quickest way to get those is through JUCO's and the Portal.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2022 09:13 AM by Boca Rocket.)
11-01-2022 09:13 AM
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cidbearit Offline
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Post: #272
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 09:13 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 06:41 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 03:50 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 07:10 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear holybovine,
I agree, and I'm with you in your opening statement. I also agree with the fact that Creighton is not Eastern's greatest coach ever. Very good post.

Since this is the Toledo game site, I just want to add what a bunch of cry babies over there. They win the game, but you would think they were somehow cheated out of a greater victory. Complaining about officiating, Eastern got all the breaks, they were giving the game away and Eastern couldn't take the win. What ever happened to be happy that you won the game?

Lets see Ken number of wins, number of bowl games, beating P5 opponents for the first time etc. I don't know what metrics you use to define greatest coach because NO other EMU coach outside of Creighton has done these things.
I'm sure he thinks it is Boisture, from the olden days when EMU was Division VIII and played NE Kentucky State Tech in the Covered Wagon Bowl.

Ken that was an EMU fan that posted EMU got all the breaks on the Toledo Board. And yes Toledo fans were pissed that the Rockets kept shooting themselves in the foot. Penalties
and turnovers that were huge Rocket errors. EMU is about 4 or 5 key players from being a very good MAC team. Quickest way to get those is through JUCO's and the Portal.

And finding a way to avoid injuries. Those key guys are there in a few places. They just need to keep them on the field.
11-01-2022 09:22 AM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #273
RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
Dear Boca Rocket,
I went back and checked your board and the MAC board, and the ones complaining were: Springboromark, UofToledoFans, FMRocket, and Boca Rocket. There was no Eastern fan listed as complaining. Now I may have missed it, but I couldn't find it.
11-01-2022 09:31 AM
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emu79 Offline
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 08:32 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 07:54 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  as i lions fan i can attest how hard and rare it can be to hire the RIGHT person to run an organization. i dont for one second trust we can hire a guy better than the best hire the program has ever had.

Using by far the worst organization in all of pro sports is a bit of an outlier. A completely mediocre coach has produced completely mediocre results at EMU. Are you saying we could never hire a mediocre coach again? Especially with the resources we put into the football program now?

But using the worst football team in D1 before Creighton became coach isn't a useful metric to measure his progress?
11-01-2022 10:39 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 09:31 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Boca Rocket,
I went back and checked your board and the MAC board, and the ones complaining were: Springboromark, UofToledoFans, FMRocket, and Boca Rocket. There was no Eastern fan listed as complaining. Now I may have missed it, but I couldn't find it.

Toledo Board: UT-EMU Game thread: page 5, post #16 on that page.

Not complaining, but stated EMU had everything its way.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2022 12:25 PM by Boca Rocket.)
11-01-2022 12:23 PM
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Ken Barna Offline
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
Dear Boca Rocket,
You even admit it wasn't a complaint. You really need to read more carefully. What about all the Toledo complaints including yours?
11-01-2022 01:40 PM
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 10:39 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 08:32 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 07:54 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  as i lions fan i can attest how hard and rare it can be to hire the RIGHT person to run an organization. i dont for one second trust we can hire a guy better than the best hire the program has ever had.

Using by far the worst organization in all of pro sports is a bit of an outlier. A completely mediocre coach has produced completely mediocre results at EMU. Are you saying we could never hire a mediocre coach again? Especially with the resources we put into the football program now?

But using the worst football team in D1 before Creighton became coach isn't a useful metric to measure his progress?

After 9 seasons, The Athletic currently has EMU ranked 100/131.
11-01-2022 02:44 PM
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dansplaining Online
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 02:44 PM)EagleHawk Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 10:39 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 08:32 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 07:54 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  as i lions fan i can attest how hard and rare it can be to hire the RIGHT person to run an organization. i dont for one second trust we can hire a guy better than the best hire the program has ever had.

Using by far the worst organization in all of pro sports is a bit of an outlier. A completely mediocre coach has produced completely mediocre results at EMU. Are you saying we could never hire a mediocre coach again? Especially with the resources we put into the football program now?

But using the worst football team in D1 before Creighton became coach isn't a useful metric to measure his progress?

After 9 seasons, The Athletic currently has EMU ranked 100/131.

The athletic also projects us as a bowl team
11-01-2022 02:50 PM
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 05:46 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 06:55 PM)holybovine Wrote:  I’m surprised so many people are afraid of change because it could fail. Is there a big difference between 4 wins and 6/7 without any bowl wins, championship appearances, etc.? I don’t think so, but obviously I’m in the minority.

And what if we got someone better? A lot of people are saying CC is EMU’s greatest ever coach. I disagree vehemently. He’s our best supported and well-funded coach. I don’t think most of you realize how little our admin supported football financially before CC. If that resource commitment continued with a new coach, I think most would do as well, if not better.

Risk aversion makes sense when thinking about going from good to great. But to be afraid to leave .500 land is…sad.

I obviously couldn’t agree more. There has been exactly one season where we finished above .500 in MAC play under Creighton. And we are afraid of losing that? It’s a far easier job to sell to a potential coach now than it was when we hired Creighton, and he deserves the credit he gets for that. But he’s showed us exactly who he is as a coach ever since 2018, and I don’t know why we should expect anything different moving forward. Our 4th quarter offense against Toledo gave me total Ken Karcher vibes, when we used to run Alex Gillett up the middle 3 times and then punt. Something HAS to change.

But of course, his contract means we are stuck with him until he leaves, or the mediocrity consistently starts to falter. Or if bovine or I win the Mega Millions and give the school more than enough buy-out money.
I believe the football staff needs a shake up. But I cannot believe that you guys want Wetherbee that make a coaching hire. (Any decisions really)
11-01-2022 03:06 PM
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RE: Game Week / Day: Toledo
(11-01-2022 03:06 PM)masttg Wrote:  
(11-01-2022 05:46 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(10-31-2022 06:55 PM)holybovine Wrote:  I’m surprised so many people are afraid of change because it could fail. Is there a big difference between 4 wins and 6/7 without any bowl wins, championship appearances, etc.? I don’t think so, but obviously I’m in the minority.

And what if we got someone better? A lot of people are saying CC is EMU’s greatest ever coach. I disagree vehemently. He’s our best supported and well-funded coach. I don’t think most of you realize how little our admin supported football financially before CC. If that resource commitment continued with a new coach, I think most would do as well, if not better.

Risk aversion makes sense when thinking about going from good to great. But to be afraid to leave .500 land is…sad.

I obviously couldn’t agree more. There has been exactly one season where we finished above .500 in MAC play under Creighton. And we are afraid of losing that? It’s a far easier job to sell to a potential coach now than it was when we hired Creighton, and he deserves the credit he gets for that. But he’s showed us exactly who he is as a coach ever since 2018, and I don’t know why we should expect anything different moving forward. Our 4th quarter offense against Toledo gave me total Ken Karcher vibes, when we used to run Alex Gillett up the middle 3 times and then punt. Something HAS to change.

But of course, his contract means we are stuck with him until he leaves, or the mediocrity consistently starts to falter. Or if bovine or I win the Mega Millions and give the school more than enough buy-out money.
I believe the football staff needs a shake up. But I cannot believe that you guys want Wetherbee that make a coaching hire. (Any decisions really)

I'm with Mastig here. We all agree CC has done wonderful things. He needs 3 new hires.
1. An Offensive coordinator. I love CC but it's either feast or famine this year. Some games the T.E. is used, others it's not. Beydoun was a Burlsworth candidate pre-season and was nowhere to be found. The quarterback room under CC has been an utter mess. These all fall under the Coordinator.

2. A new Defensive coordinator. If CC keeps Neathery, this explains everything we need to know about CC, Weatherbee and the Athletic departments satisfaction with years of below average defense in almost every metric. If CC finds someone new, it signals CC is serious about breaking through.

3. We need an analyst. We need to hire a former coach who can come in as a consultant this off season and spring ball and provide objective feedback to CC which would allow us to get out of the 6-6, 7-5 level we are at and break through. I'm not complaining about bowl games but going in to year 10, we all have to ask ourselves what do we think would be different allowing us to break through? The answer is nothing. We will have another band aid qb, same 'Factory' branding, same scheme, etc. A consultant would provide fresh ideas. What about getting (don't choke) Urban Meyer to come in for a few weeks and provide fresh ideas and leave.
11-02-2022 06:13 AM
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