I came across this Q and A in the current issue of Smithsonian Magazine.

Q: I still see the term “American Indian” in use, including in the title of a Smithsonian museum. Why not say “Native American” instead?
Dan Lau | Los Altos, California

Native people prefer to be identified with their own specific tribe or tribes. But when it comes to describing all of these nations with one term, there’s no consensus. Groups in Alaska like to be called “Alaskan Natives,” while those in Canada prefer the term “First Nations.” Some others in South America call themselves “AmerIndian.” Even though the term “Indian” originally came from a misunderstanding, many tribal people still prefer it over the alternatives. (Some point out that any person born in the Americas could be called a “Native American.”) I personally say “American Indian” because it is the language of the law between the tribal and federal governments. —Dennis Zotigh, cultural specialist, National Museum of the American Indian

So, is "American Indian" nonPC or not? In one sense none of us are Natives as all are descended from immigrants. Whether the immigrant came over the Bering Land Bridge or on the Mayflower really shouldn't matter.

Seventy views and not one comment. I expected more, especially from the guy who is always trying to manage other people's language. I guess comments about American Indians/Native Americans do not rise to the level of being worth talking about. Or maybe it was the comments from the cultural specialist at the National Museum of the American Indian. Sounds like an authority to me.

Language changes, and then sometimes changes back. I remember when "gay" and "queer" were pejorative, now they are embraced. But I also remember when those two words had nothing to do with sex. Now that is a long time ago.

The other day, in a meeting, I used the word "Anglo" to refer to white people, as I was taught to do as a child on the border, and the looks around the table were shocked (all white people). Is 'Anglo" now perjorative? Seems like some uses of "white" are.

(08-28-2022 08:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Seventy views and not one comment. I expected more, especially from the guy who is always trying to manage other people's language. I guess comments about American Indians/Native Americans do not rise to the level of being worth talking about. Or maybe it was the comments from the cultural specialist at the National Museum of the American Indian. Sounds like an authority to me.

Language changes, and then sometimes changes back. I remember when "gay" and "queer" were pejorative, now they are embraced. But I also remember when those two words had nothing to do with sex. Now that is a long time ago.

The other day, in a meeting, I used the word "Anglo" to refer to white people, as I was taught to do as a child on the border, and the looks around the table were shocked (all white people). Is 'Anglo" now perjorative? Seems like some uses of "white" are.

Obvious troll post is obvious - made even more so by the second sentence in your post here.

(08-28-2022 08:32 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 08:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Seventy views and not one comment. I expected more, especially from the guy who is always trying to manage other people's language. I guess comments about American Indians/Native Americans do not rise to the level of being worth talking about. Or maybe it was the comments from the cultural specialist at the National Museum of the American Indian. Sounds like an authority to me.

Language changes, and then sometimes changes back. I remember when "gay" and "queer" were pejorative, now they are embraced. But I also remember when those two words had nothing to do with sex. Now that is a long time ago.

The other day, in a meeting, I used the word "Anglo" to refer to white people, as I was taught to do as a child on the border, and the looks around the table were shocked (all white people). Is 'Anglo" now perjorative? Seems like some uses of "white" are.

Obvious troll post is obvious - made even more so by the second sentence in your post here.

So you know who I am thinking of? QED.

Yes, I do want to hear other people's opinions on various topics. That is why I come here.

It was not a topic in my mind until I read the QandA in Smithsonian - I use the PC version now without thinking, but of course I grew up using "American Indian". And of course, I am about 5% NA, per two DNA tests, or about 5000 X Senator Warren.

The topic of PC speech has always been of interest to me. I generally follow the rule of using the terms that the person I am talking to prefers for themselves. I guess I violated that when I used "anglo" in the example above. I still find it uncomfortable to use "queer", and a couple of other terms, even to one who prefers it.

I strongly prefer Native American. I feel no need to respond to geographically challenged Europeans.

(08-28-2022 09:46 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  I strongly prefer Native American. I feel no need to respond to geographically challenged Europeans.

I prefer NA myself, probably out of habit. Growing up in the early 50's, though, NA wasn't even a choice. Nobody played cowboys and native Americans. I changed, and would find it difficult to change back. Just was surprised to find official support for any version of Indian.

(08-28-2022 08:25 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Seventy views and not one comment. I expected more, especially from the guy who is always trying to manage other people's language. I guess comments about American Indians/Native Americans do not rise to the level of being worth talking about.

You posted at 4:30 pm yesterday.

Here is my personal timeline:

3:45 pm - Left house to take my kid to his high school sporting event
5:00 pm - Watched game with family
6:30 pm - Papa's Burger with family/friends
8:00 pm - 4th grader sleepover at our house
10:45 pm - I crashed out before the 4th graders did
6:300 am - Woke up, took care of dogs, made breakfast, got 4th graders ready
9:00 am - Left to return 4th grader and pick up my teenager from his sleepover
10:00 am - church
right now - return to find this nasty post

Have a good Sunday, OO. Whatever you have going on that causes you to write **** like the above I honestly hope it gets better.

(08-28-2022 09:57 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 09:46 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  I strongly prefer Native American. I feel no need to respond to geographically challenged Europeans.

I prefer NA myself, probably out of habit. Growing up in the early 50's, though, NA wasn't even a choice. Nobody played cowboys and native Americans. I changed, and would find it difficult to change back. Just was surprised to find official support for any version of Indian.

I am generally more shocked it took until 2 years ago to retire the team name of Redskins. I don't really care if people use the term Indian since most people grew up with that terminology and I generally don't think they mean harm. I save my outrage for active macro aggressions such as one of my former bosses calling me a drunk indian.

(08-28-2022 12:07 PM)flash3200 Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 09:57 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 09:46 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  I strongly prefer Native American. I feel no need to respond to geographically challenged Europeans.

I prefer NA myself, probably out of habit. Growing up in the early 50's, though, NA wasn't even a choice. Nobody played cowboys and native Americans. I changed, and would find it difficult to change back. Just was surprised to find official support for any version of Indian.

I am generally more shocked it took until 2 years ago to retire the team name of Redskins. I don't really care if people use the term Indian since most people grew up with that terminology and I generally don't think they mean harm. I save my outrage for active macro aggressions such as one of my former bosses calling me a drunk indian.

I go to the so-called Indian casinos often. Nobody seems to mind that terminology in that context. One I go to sometimes is Choctaw .

(08-28-2022 12:24 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 12:07 PM)flash3200 Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 09:57 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 09:46 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  I strongly prefer Native American. I feel no need to respond to geographically challenged Europeans.

I prefer NA myself, probably out of habit. Growing up in the early 50's, though, NA wasn't even a choice. Nobody played cowboys and native Americans. I changed, and would find it difficult to change back. Just was surprised to find official support for any version of Indian.

I am generally more shocked it took until 2 years ago to retire the team name of Redskins. I don't really care if people use the term Indian since most people grew up with that terminology and I generally don't think they mean harm. I save my outrage for active macro aggressions such as one of my former bosses calling me a drunk indian.

I go to the so-called Indian casinos often. Nobody seems to mind that terminology in that context. One I go to sometimes is Choctaw .

We-Ko-Pa is my favorite so far. Golf courses are amazing. I need to visit my own tribe's spot in Tulsa

(08-28-2022 12:36 PM)flash3200 Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 12:24 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 12:07 PM)flash3200 Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 09:57 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 09:46 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  I strongly prefer Native American. I feel no need to respond to geographically challenged Europeans.

I prefer NA myself, probably out of habit. Growing up in the early 50's, though, NA wasn't even a choice. Nobody played cowboys and native Americans. I changed, and would find it difficult to change back. Just was surprised to find official support for any version of Indian.

I am generally more shocked it took until 2 years ago to retire the team name of Redskins. I don't really care if people use the term Indian since most people grew up with that terminology and I generally don't think they mean harm. I save my outrage for active macro aggressions such as one of my former bosses calling me a drunk indian.

I go to the so-called Indian casinos often. Nobody seems to mind that terminology in that context. One I go to sometimes is Choctaw .

We-Ko-Pa is my favorite so far. Golf courses are amazing. I need to visit my own tribe's spot in Tulsa

According to my NatGeo DNA test, the source for my 5% NA ancestry is northern Mexico, most likely Mayan. I have no contact with any tribal organization, though.

(08-28-2022 12:24 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I go to the so-called Indian casinos often. Nobody seems to mind that terminology in that context. One I go to sometimes is Choctaw .

And I think you just hit on the difference.

For a variety of reasons, there is little 'purchase' in being offended here... so there is little political hay to be made of it.

It is often a choice... for a large number of groups, not remotely limited to race... to be offended and to gain some power from this.

One thing that I think should be seriously considered.

There is an enormous amount of federal land that is doing nothing, mostly in the western states. What if a substantial portion of that was given back to the Native American tribes from which it was originally taken? There would be a lot of details to work out, like which tribes get how much and where, but I think it is worth pursuing. The land is doing nothing now, maybe the tribes could put it to good use, and in harmony with nature.

(08-29-2022 09:25 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One thing that I think should be seriously considered.

There is an enormous amount of federal land that is doing nothing, mostly in the western states. What if a substantial portion of that was given back to the Native American tribes from which it was originally taken? There would be a lot of details to work out, like which tribes get how much and where, but I think it is worth pursuing. The land is doing nothing now, maybe the tribes could put it to good use, and in harmony with nature.

Yeah, the tribes could lease it out for drilling, helping their members financially...oh, wait a minute.

(08-29-2022 09:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-29-2022 09:25 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One thing that I think should be seriously considered.
There is an enormous amount of federal land that is doing nothing, mostly in the western states. What if a substantial portion of that was given back to the Native American tribes from which it was originally taken? There would be a lot of details to work out, like which tribes get how much and where, but I think it is worth pursuing. The land is doing nothing now, maybe the tribes could put it to good use, and in harmony with nature.

Yeah, the tribes could lease it out for drilling, helping their members financially...oh, wait a minute.

Run cattle on it, grow crops, trees, bale hay, do lots of things. And most would be very much in line with their concern for nature.

(08-29-2022 09:38 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-29-2022 09:30 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-29-2022 09:25 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One thing that I think should be seriously considered.
There is an enormous amount of federal land that is doing nothing, mostly in the western states. What if a substantial portion of that was given back to the Native American tribes from which it was originally taken? There would be a lot of details to work out, like which tribes get how much and where, but I think it is worth pursuing. The land is doing nothing now, maybe the tribes could put it to good use, and in harmony with nature.

Yeah, the tribes could lease it out for drilling, helping their members financially...oh, wait a minute.

Run cattle on it, grow crops, trees, bale hay, do lots of things. And most would be very much in line with their concern for nature.

True, these things could happen, but lots of the time people go for the easiest/most money. Baling hay will not beat out drilling.

I just see some conflicts for environmentalists if the tribes don't act as they think they should. Giving the land back also means losing control of it.

I can see some leftists with a conflict of interest here. A good idea, but as you say, a lot of details to be ironed out.

A lot of environmentalists have a cow over the hunting ranches in Texas. But those have brought a number of threatened species back to respectable numbers, and still growing.

(08-29-2022 09:25 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One thing that I think should be seriously considered.

There is an enormous amount of federal land that is doing nothing, mostly in the western states. What if a substantial portion of that was given back to the Native American tribes from which it was originally taken? There would be a lot of details to work out, like which tribes get how much and where, but I think it is worth pursuing. The land is doing nothing now, maybe the tribes could put it to good use, and in harmony with nature.

So... reparations?