(10-11-2022 12:42 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 12:38 PM)450bench Wrote:  The ACA? Seriously? Did that get any Republican votes when it passed? I’ll answer that. No.
Arguing over a piece of legislation is one thing.

Rioting immediately after your candidate lost an election and fictionalizing charges for 4 years + at the highest levels of government to overthrow a sitting President because you don’t like his style is quite another subject.

If that’s all you got, well…you’re gonna have to do a lot better than that.

They did everything they could as soon as they took power in the congress to defund the act, let alone repeal it all together. I didn't like the ACA, but don't act like the Republicans didn't try to undo essentially everything Obama did.

You're joking, right?

(10-11-2022 12:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:29 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:25 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:17 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:13 AM)450bench Wrote:  Liberals over the last 4 or 5 years have forced this type of thought process. They’ve forced us all to take sides. If you don’t take their side you’re garbage or worse as they’ve said many times.
Don’t blame that thought process on Shere.

I blame it on both sides. Both sides have told me I'm either 100% with them or I'm against them. Sorry, I actually think for myself. Which is why I think both parties, including Biden AND Trump, are garbage. F'em all.

Something to be said for that but that’s too broad for this situation, imo.

Life was never this contentious before the 2016 election. Liberals started to protest the SECOND Trump won and his supporters were blasted by the left from that point forward.

Conservatives did not do that. Leftwingers did. That put conservatives on the defensive, permanently.

Lefties starts this, period.

Correct. The level of animus was turned up to 1,000 in 2008, when the privileged dude and his husband came out of Chicago to tell us that we were all racists.

I think the 2008 and 2012 elections really was a game changer. The Republicans put up two very moderate candidates in John McCain and Mitt Romney and the Left still called them Hitler. Republicans took the gloves off and gave the world Trump.

I too hate the “Agree with me or you are a bad person” world we now live in. I’m not sure how we put the toothpaste back in the tube but Gabbard’s move seems like it can help.

And claiming Dukakis would release a bunch of Willie Horton's from jail to rape your wives was what, exactly?

(10-11-2022 12:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 12:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:29 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:25 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:17 AM)mlb Wrote:  I blame it on both sides. Both sides have told me I'm either 100% with them or I'm against them. Sorry, I actually think for myself. Which is why I think both parties, including Biden AND Trump, are garbage. F'em all.

Something to be said for that but that’s too broad for this situation, imo.

Life was never this contentious before the 2016 election. Liberals started to protest the SECOND Trump won and his supporters were blasted by the left from that point forward.

Conservatives did not do that. Leftwingers did. That put conservatives on the defensive, permanently.

Lefties starts this, period.

Correct. The level of animus was turned up to 1,000 in 2008, when the privileged dude and his husband came out of Chicago to tell us that we were all racists.

I think the 2008 and 2012 elections really was a game changer. The Republicans put up two very moderate candidates in John McCain and Mitt Romney and the Left still called them Hitler. Republicans took the gloves off and gave the world Trump.

I too hate the “Agree with me or you are a bad person” world we now live in. I’m not sure how we put the toothpaste back in the tube but Gabbard’s move seems like it can help.

And claiming Dukakis would release a bunch of Willie Horton's from jail to rape your wives was what, exactly?

And, here we are...with Dems wanting to empty the prisons and have no bail, even for violent offenders.

Not to mention, wanting open borders and allowing anyone (unvetted) to come right on in.

(10-11-2022 12:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 12:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:29 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:25 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:17 AM)mlb Wrote:  I blame it on both sides. Both sides have told me I'm either 100% with them or I'm against them. Sorry, I actually think for myself. Which is why I think both parties, including Biden AND Trump, are garbage. F'em all.

Something to be said for that but that’s too broad for this situation, imo.

Life was never this contentious before the 2016 election. Liberals started to protest the SECOND Trump won and his supporters were blasted by the left from that point forward.

Conservatives did not do that. Leftwingers did. That put conservatives on the defensive, permanently.

Lefties starts this, period.

Correct. The level of animus was turned up to 1,000 in 2008, when the privileged dude and his husband came out of Chicago to tell us that we were all racists.

I think the 2008 and 2012 elections really was a game changer. The Republicans put up two very moderate candidates in John McCain and Mitt Romney and the Left still called them Hitler. Republicans took the gloves off and gave the world Trump.

I too hate the “Agree with me or you are a bad person” world we now live in. I’m not sure how we put the toothpaste back in the tube but Gabbard’s move seems like it can help.

And claiming Dukakis would release a bunch of Willie Horton's from jail to rape your wives was what, exactly?

1. The truth
2. A point originally raised by.....Al Gore.

Anyway, back to the original topic. I hope she creates a wave of moderates disowning both parties and band together.

(10-11-2022 01:23 PM)mlb Wrote:  Anyway, back to the original topic. I hope she creates a wave of moderates disowning both parties and band together.

I'd be good with that.

(10-11-2022 11:43 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:35 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:17 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:13 AM)450bench Wrote:  Liberals over the last 4 or 5 years have forced this type of thought process. They’ve forced us all to take sides. If you don’t take their side you’re garbage or worse as they’ve said many times.
Don’t blame that thought process on Shere.

I blame it on both sides. Both sides have told me I'm either 100% with them or I'm against them. Sorry, I actually think for myself. Which is why I think both parties, including Biden AND Trump, are garbage. F'em all.

Pretty much. But no, this didn't just start 4 or 5 years ago. And the only thing that was forced was the fealty of the right to defend every thing their cult leader did.

Seriously? The left tried everything in their power to overthrow this guy’s presidency. That’s plainly obvious. Nothing stuck. Nothing. No one in history has been investigated more than Trump. No one. And nothing came of any of it.
And you expect conservatives to just sit back and not say anything about the insane circumstances of that mess?
Gimme a freaking break.
Such hypocrisy. The mantra of the left.

Trump, his wife and kids, Son in law and anyone else even remotely in the Trump orbit. For what? Rassling elderly people put of bed at 5:30 A.M. dawn raids with VFNN in tow by "coincidence" frogmen in the puddle in the backyard and helicopters overhead.

Now they're bum-rushing peoples personal houses with their little kids inside to make an arrest which could have easily been done by a phone call and surrender. The "crime"? Singing hymns in the halls of a building with an abortion mill in it. There have now been several of these needless arrests, all clearly political hit jobs.

This'll be great. Every 4-8 years whoever is in power can now insure they stay in power simply by arresting their political opponents. Great precedent.


3 words:
Land of the Free...



But the right started this. K.

(10-11-2022 01:23 PM)mlb Wrote:  Anyway, back to the original topic. I hope she creates a wave of moderates disowning both parties and band together.

Please for all that is good give me another option. I can never vote for Democrats in the present state of affairs, but Repubs are just as bad.. I am a registered independent who leans right socially and centrist economically.. Tulsa is pretty leftwing, but it is a start.

(10-11-2022 01:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 01:23 PM)mlb Wrote:  Anyway, back to the original topic. I hope she creates a wave of moderates disowning both parties and band together.

Please for all that is good give me another option. I can never vote for Democrats in the present state of affairs, but Repubs are just as bad.. I am a registered independent who leans right socially and centrist economically.. Tulsa is pretty leftwing, but it is a start.

You're an Independent? Have you met Tom? He's also an Independent, sees things from both sides, and it's very non-partisan.

(10-11-2022 02:01 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 01:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 01:23 PM)mlb Wrote:  Anyway, back to the original topic. I hope she creates a wave of moderates disowning both parties and band together.

Please for all that is good give me another option. I can never vote for Democrats in the present state of affairs, but Repubs are just as bad.. I am a registered independent who leans right socially and centrist economically.. Tulsa is pretty leftwing, but it is a start.

You're an Independent? Have you met Tom? He's also an Independent, sees things from both sides, and it's very non-partisan.

Tom is truly worthy of ignore. But he trolls along.

(10-11-2022 12:55 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 12:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:29 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:25 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 11:17 AM)mlb Wrote:  I blame it on both sides. Both sides have told me I'm either 100% with them or I'm against them. Sorry, I actually think for myself. Which is why I think both parties, including Biden AND Trump, are garbage. F'em all.

Something to be said for that but that’s too broad for this situation, imo.

Life was never this contentious before the 2016 election. Liberals started to protest the SECOND Trump won and his supporters were blasted by the left from that point forward.

Conservatives did not do that. Leftwingers did. That put conservatives on the defensive, permanently.

Lefties starts this, period.

Correct. The level of animus was turned up to 1,000 in 2008, when the privileged dude and his husband came out of Chicago to tell us that we were all racists.

I think the 2008 and 2012 elections really was a game changer. The Republicans put up two very moderate candidates in John McCain and Mitt Romney and the Left still called them Hitler. Republicans took the gloves off and gave the world Trump.

I too hate the “Agree with me or you are a bad person” world we now live in. I’m not sure how we put the toothpaste back in the tube but Gabbard’s move seems like it can help.

And claiming Dukakis would release a bunch of Willie Horton's from jail to rape your wives was what, exactly?

Politics. Not Hitler.

(10-11-2022 12:42 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 12:38 PM)450bench Wrote:  The ACA? Seriously? Did that get any Republican votes when it passed? I’ll answer that. No.
Arguing over a piece of legislation is one thing.

Rioting immediately after your candidate lost an election and fictionalizing charges for 4 years + at the highest levels of government to overthrow a sitting President because you don’t like his style is quite another subject.

If that’s all you got, well…you’re gonna have to do a lot better than that.

They did everything they could as soon as they took power in the congress to defund the act, let alone repeal it all together. I didn't like the ACA, but don't act like the Republicans didn't try to undo essentially everything Obama did.

So freaking what? That’s politics in it’s normal form. Nothing was underhanded at all.

That’s not even close to what the liberals did after the 2016 election. Not in the same stratosphere. If you can’t see that, I can’t help you.

Sorry dude but your comparison is just plain bad.

(10-11-2022 09:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The funny thing is Gabbard is Center-Left on most issues. For example:

- Climate Change: Mandate an end to use of fossil fuels for electricity by 2050. Ban fracking.
- Education: Tuition free community college for all and tuition-free public universities for students who families make $125,000 or less.
- Guns: Ban assault weapons and require universal background checks
- Healthcare: Medicare for all
- Pro-Abortion, supports same-sex marriage, supports trans in the military

This short list alone would turn me off to her. She is completely opposite of my feelings. The only one that I might support is free college for STEM students, ONLY. The others can pay for their education by themselves.

(10-11-2022 07:11 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Tulsi Gabbard ?
@TulsiGabbard
I can no longer remain in today’s Democratic Party that is now under the complete control of an elitist cabal of warmongers driven by cowardly wokeness, who divide us by racializing every issue & stoke anti-white racism, actively work to undermine our God-given freedoms, are…
I’m leaving the Democratic Party.

…hostile to people of faith & spirituality, demonize the police & protect criminals at the expense of law-abiding Americans, believe in open borders, weaponize the national security state to go after political opponents, and above all, dragging us ever closer to nuclear war.

I believe in a government that is of, by, and for the people. Unfortunately, today’s Democratic Party does not. Instead, it stands for a government of, by, and for the powerful elite. I’m calling on my fellow common sense independent-minded Democrats to join me….

…in leaving the Democratic Party. If you can no longer stomach the direction that so-called woke Democratic Party ideologues are taking our country, I invite you to join me.

What took her so long? I got there about 15 years ago.

Better late than never.

(10-11-2022 01:59 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 01:23 PM)mlb Wrote:  Anyway, back to the original topic. I hope she creates a wave of moderates disowning both parties and band together.

Please for all that is good give me another option. I can never vote for Democrats in the present state of affairs, but Repubs are just as bad.. I am a registered independent who leans right socially and centrist economically.. Tulsa is pretty leftwing, but it is a start.

We live under a binary system, and that isn't changing barring a radical change to our electoral systems, probably through a constitutional convention under which our 1st and 2nd amendment rights would surely be curtailed.

"Way back in ’67, William F. Buckley Jr. told interviewer Bill Barry how to pick among candidates in a Republican primary: “I’d be for the most right, viable candidate who could win.”"

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/11/w...candidate/

(10-11-2022 03:01 PM)450bench Wrote:  So freaking what? That’s politics in it’s normal form. Nothing was underhanded at all.

That’s not even close to what the liberals did after the 2016 election. Not in the same stratosphere. If you can’t see that, I can’t help you.

Sorry dude but your comparison is just plain bad.

Sorry, I disagree. Both parties try to undo the major accomplishments of the previous administration. It has been going on for a long time. If you don't see that, well... I don't know what to tell you.

(10-12-2022 10:16 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(10-11-2022 03:01 PM)450bench Wrote:  So freaking what? That’s politics in it’s normal form. Nothing was underhanded at all.

That’s not even close to what the liberals did after the 2016 election. Not in the same stratosphere. If you can’t see that, I can’t help you.

Sorry dude but your comparison is just plain bad.

Sorry, I disagree. Both parties try to undo the major accomplishments of the previous administration. It has been going on for a long time. If you don't see that, well... I don't know what to tell you.

You do realize that you just completely contradicted your other point, right?