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Making the case for UCF
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-04-2022 11:12 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  
(10-04-2022 09:11 AM)esayem Wrote:  None of these options make money and they water down the basketball product. If UNC is playing a conference game against UCF?

[Image: well-sorry-im-out-meme-1068x666.jpg]

I doubt the ACC is willing to add what is essentially an academic community college, even a good one. That's where Memphis is right now compared to the average ACC school.

I think one of the big problems with UCF is USF. It's in the tale of the tape:

USF
Endowment - Almost 1 Billion
ARWU - 63-85 (Same as VT, NC State, etc)
Students 37 Undergrad, 11K Grad
NSF Funding - 77th
PhD Making - 54
Number of Grads 42nd
Admission Rate 49%
Intangibles - Gulf Coast, Tampa

UCF
Endowment - Just 200 Million
ARWU 86-106
Students 54 Undergrad, 10K Grad
NSF Funding 105th
PhD Making 74th
Number of Grads 55th
Admission Rate 31%
Intangibles - NASA, Disney

USF is already in the lower third ACC quality level for education, research, and financials now. UCF is 15 years behind USF in that respect. What you actually gain by adding them on the way to 15, 16, or 18 I do not know. Now if you are going to 20 or 21 that might be different, but again, I don't know.

When you do Pro/Con, USF has many of the same Pros as UCF. Either add is risky.
10-04-2022 12:37 PM
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BigOwensboroCard Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Making the case for UCF
When you do Pro/Con, USF has many of the same Pros as UCF. Either add is risky.


This maybe true, but UCF has a much better football program than USF, and if this league is going to match the others they need to think football first, and not comparing how they don’t match up with the ACC in all the other categories etc

This also goes for West Virginia and Cincinnati who would help enhance the ACC in football first and foremost something we need. Some teams out there don’t help us like some think they would. If this conference has any shot need to quit looking so hard at how other schools don’t compare to the ACC etc.
10-04-2022 01:08 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-04-2022 01:08 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  When you do Pro/Con, USF has many of the same Pros as UCF. Either add is risky.


This maybe true, but UCF has a much better football program than USF, and if this league is going to match the others they need to think football first, and not comparing how they don’t match up with the ACC in all the other categories etc

This also goes for West Virginia and Cincinnati who would help enhance the ACC in football first and foremost something we need. Some teams out there don’t help us like some think they would. If this conference has any shot need to quit looking so hard at how other schools don’t compare to the ACC etc.

Well.... WVU is about to fire their coach. So any football enhancement would have to be long term. At least Cincinnati is at their highest point ever right now.
10-04-2022 01:11 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-04-2022 01:11 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(10-04-2022 01:08 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  When you do Pro/Con, USF has many of the same Pros as UCF. Either add is risky.


This maybe true, but UCF has a much better football program than USF, and if this league is going to match the others they need to think football first, and not comparing how they don’t match up with the ACC in all the other categories etc

This also goes for West Virginia and Cincinnati who would help enhance the ACC in football first and foremost something we need. Some teams out there don’t help us like some think they would. If this conference has any shot need to quit looking so hard at how other schools don’t compare to the ACC etc.

Well.... WVU is about to fire their coach. So any football enhancement would have to be long term. At least Cincinnati is at their highest point ever right now.

At the rate P5 coaches are getting fired so far this year, Cincy just might lose Fickell. Don't want to jinx them since I hope one day the Bearcats join the ACC.

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2022 07:32 PM by OrangeDude.)
10-04-2022 07:31 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-04-2022 07:31 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-04-2022 01:11 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(10-04-2022 01:08 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  When you do Pro/Con, USF has many of the same Pros as UCF. Either add is risky.


This maybe true, but UCF has a much better football program than USF, and if this league is going to match the others they need to think football first, and not comparing how they don’t match up with the ACC in all the other categories etc

This also goes for West Virginia and Cincinnati who would help enhance the ACC in football first and foremost something we need. Some teams out there don’t help us like some think they would. If this conference has any shot need to quit looking so hard at how other schools don’t compare to the ACC etc.

Well.... WVU is about to fire their coach. So any football enhancement would have to be long term. At least Cincinnati is at their highest point ever right now.

At the rate P5 coaches are getting fired so far this year, Cincy just might lose Fickell. Don't want to jinx them since I hope one day the Bearcats join the ACC.

Cheers,
Neil

Well... CIncy was paying Fickell over $3m per year in the AAC and then when they got into the B12, they re-signed him for $4.5 mil a year and he says he's committed to Cincy unless the ND or tOSU jobs become open. So, He'd probably require $10mil a year (a guess) for someone that's not either of those schools and that's a lot to pay for a coach who hasn't yet been successful at the P5 level. I think he stays at Cincinnati for a while.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2022 08:21 PM by ChrisLords.)
10-04-2022 08:19 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #26
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-04-2022 01:08 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  When you do Pro/Con, USF has many of the same Pros as UCF. Either add is risky.


This maybe true, but UCF has a much better football program than USF, and if this league is going to match the others they need to think football first, and not comparing how they don’t match up with the ACC in all the other categories etc

This also goes for West Virginia and Cincinnati who would help enhance the ACC in football first and foremost something we need. Some teams out there don’t help us like some think they would. If this conference has any shot need to quit looking so hard at how other schools don’t compare to the ACC etc.

And, UCF is producing twice as many alumni every year as USF does.
10-06-2022 01:16 PM
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SouthernConfBoy Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Making the case for UCF
West Virginia is a dying state. West Va's media market footprint is overlain by Pitt's, MD's, UVa, VT, KY, Louisville, and Ohio State. They have a tragic geographic impediment.


The ACC can not solve what is a failure of American socioeconomic and a knee jerk reaction to Virginia's secession in 1861.

In an ideal world PA west of State College would be split from Eastern PA and most of West Va, and the western 2 counties of MD would become Westylvania.

State Capitol would be in Pittsburgh.

Then U of West Va becomes Pennsylvania State U, while Pitt is the U of Westsylvania (name change or not).


When the Appalachian Regional Commission was created in the early 1960's they shone a light on these problems. NE TN, Eastern KY, SW Va, and Southern West Va ought to be their own State. With the capital in Bristol Va/TN.


Rural mountain people always get the short end of the stick in a relationship with more economically vibrant flatlanders.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2022 02:32 PM by SouthernConfBoy.)
10-06-2022 02:23 PM
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SouthernConfBoy Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-06-2022 01:16 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-04-2022 01:08 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  When you do Pro/Con, USF has many of the same Pros as UCF. Either add is risky.


This maybe true, but UCF has a much better football program than USF, and if this league is going to match the others they need to think football first, and not comparing how they don’t match up with the ACC in all the other categories etc

This also goes for West Virginia and Cincinnati who would help enhance the ACC in football first and foremost something we need. Some teams out there don’t help us like some think they would. If this conference has any shot need to quit looking so hard at how other schools don’t compare to the ACC etc.

And, UCF is producing twice as many alumni every year as USF does.

True, they are minting about 4500 male grads a year versus 2500 male grads using their own stats.

Not to denigrate women, but by and large women are not who support college football.
10-06-2022 02:40 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-04-2022 11:12 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  
(10-04-2022 09:11 AM)esayem Wrote:  None of these options make money and they water down the basketball product. If UNC is playing a conference game against UCF?

[Image: well-sorry-im-out-meme-1068x666.jpg]

I doubt the ACC is willing to add what is essentially an academic community college, even a good one. That's where Memphis is right now compared to the average ACC school.

I think one of the big problems with UCF is USF. It's in the tale of the tape:

USF
Endowment - Almost 1 Billion
ARWU - 63-85 (Same as VT, NC State, etc)
Students 37 Undergrad, 11K Grad
NSF Funding - 77th
PhD Making - 54
Number of Grads 42nd
Admission Rate 49%
Intangibles - Gulf Coast, Tampa

UCF
Endowment - Just 200 Million
ARWU 86-106
Students 54 Undergrad, 10K Grad
NSF Funding 105th
PhD Making 74th
Number of Grads 55th
Admission Rate 31%
Intangibles - NASA, Disney

USF is already in the lower third ACC quality level for education, research, and financials now. UCF is 15 years behind USF in that respect. What you actually gain by adding them on the way to 15, 16, or 18 I do not know. Now if you are going to 20 or 21 that might be different, but again, I don't know.

When USF was in the Big East along with Syracuse I used to defend them since so many UCF fans would go to the BE Board and trash the league because they were not chosen over USF even though in the initial July reports UCF was considered for football only and USF was not even on the list.

But over 15 years later the one stat that matters to me is the following:

UCF has three major bowl* appearances - 2 Fiesta and 1 Peach with wins in 2 of them over #6 Baylor and #7 Auburn. The loss was to #11 LSU by 8 points. USF has none.

*For major bowls I consider Rose, Sugar, Orange, Fiesta, Cotton, and Peach.

Just my thoughts but I think USF's "problem" so to speak is UCF not the other way around.

I have been known to be wrong before.

Cheers,
Neil
10-06-2022 05:37 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-06-2022 05:37 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(10-04-2022 11:12 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  
(10-04-2022 09:11 AM)esayem Wrote:  None of these options make money and they water down the basketball product. If UNC is playing a conference game against UCF?

[Image: well-sorry-im-out-meme-1068x666.jpg]

I doubt the ACC is willing to add what is essentially an academic community college, even a good one. That's where Memphis is right now compared to the average ACC school.

I think one of the big problems with UCF is USF. It's in the tale of the tape:

USF
Endowment - Almost 1 Billion
ARWU - 63-85 (Same as VT, NC State, etc)
Students 37 Undergrad, 11K Grad
NSF Funding - 77th
PhD Making - 54
Number of Grads 42nd
Admission Rate 49%
Intangibles - Gulf Coast, Tampa

UCF
Endowment - Just 200 Million
ARWU 86-106
Students 54 Undergrad, 10K Grad
NSF Funding 105th
PhD Making 74th
Number of Grads 55th
Admission Rate 31%
Intangibles - NASA, Disney

USF is already in the lower third ACC quality level for education, research, and financials now. UCF is 15 years behind USF in that respect. What you actually gain by adding them on the way to 15, 16, or 18 I do not know. Now if you are going to 20 or 21 that might be different, but again, I don't know.

When USF was in the Big East along with Syracuse I used to defend them since so many UCF fans would go to the BE Board and trash the league because they were not chosen over USF even though in the initial July reports UCF was considered for football only and USF was not even on the list.

But over 15 years later the one stat that matters to me is the following:

UCF has three major bowl* appearances - 2 Fiesta and 1 Peach with wins in 2 of them over #6 Baylor and #7 Auburn. The loss was to #11 LSU by 8 points. USF has none.

*For major bowls I consider Rose, Sugar, Orange, Fiesta, Cotton, and Peach.

Just my thoughts but I think USF's "problem" so to speak is UCF not the other way around.

I have been known to be wrong before.

Cheers,
Neil

You're not wrong here.
10-06-2022 05:46 PM
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Gitanole Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Making the case for UCF
(10-06-2022 02:23 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  ....
The ACC can not solve what is a failure of American socioeconomic and a knee jerk reaction to Virginia's secession in 1861.
....

Historically speaking, secession was the 'knee-jerk reaction.'

Quote:....
Rural mountain people always get the short end of the stick in a relationship with more economically vibrant flatlanders.

App State beat Coastal Carolina last year. So maybe not always.

07-coffee3
10-06-2022 07:49 PM
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