If the new twelve team format was in place this year, one of the first round games would be #12 JMU versus #5 Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Talk about your David vs. Goliath matchup! Meanwhile, we get to play Stony Brook this weekend. Sigh.

I'll bite.

It's a fair point. The expansion of the playoff makes life in the G5 more appealing. Eventually we will get a 16-team playoff with something like 10 autobids for the conference champs plus 6 at large.

As a W&M fan I would like to see games against JMU, ODU, ECU, Virginia, and VPI. I would like for some of those games to be at home. Under the current classification scheme, that ain't happening.

I have long held the knee-jerk assumption that FBS football is simply impossible for W&M, but having looked at small-time FBS athletic budgets, having seen teams around the state move up, and having been to a few small-time FBS games and venues in the interim (W&M at Charlotte most recently), I've come around to the opinion that it's entirely a matter of priorities.

At some point, probably sooner rather than later, Conference USA is going to get tired of having only nine members. Who do they add if they want 12 ? Or 14? Would they look at Delaware? Would they consider Villanova as an associate member for football? I am tired of learning to like new rivals. I like the old ones better.

(09-30-2022 02:28 PM)Tribester Wrote:  If the new twelve team format was in place this year, one of the first round games would be #12 JMU versus #5 Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Talk about your David vs. Goliath matchup! Meanwhile, we get to play Stony Brook this weekend. Sigh.

JMU has had a nice run out of the gate but that scenario you paint is not happening. At least not this year. Even if JMU could and went undefeated - a huge achievement - their schedule strength is just a non starter. Their only P5 game is Louisville and a MEAC team one of their wins.

But back to Earth, we are playing Delaware this weekend in a huge conference game and a likely sellout or close. Will be a very festive weekend. JMU is playing at Arkansas State. Just for some real world perspective.

(10-03-2022 03:28 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  I'll bite.

It's a fair point. The expansion of the playoff makes life in the G5 more appealing. Eventually we will get a 16-team playoff with something like 10 autobids for the conference champs plus 6 at large.

As a W&M fan I would like to see games against JMU, ODU, ECU, Virginia, and VPI. I would like for some of those games to be at home. Under the current classification scheme, that ain't happening.

I have long held the knee-jerk assumption that FBS football is simply impossible for W&M, but having looked at small-time FBS athletic budgets, having seen teams around the state move up, and having been to a few small-time FBS games and venues in the interim (W&M at Charlotte most recently), I've come around to the opinion that it's entirely a matter of priorities.

At some point, probably sooner rather than later, Conference USA is going to get tired of having only nine members. Who do they add if they want 12 ? Or 14? Would they look at Delaware? Would they consider Villanova as an associate member for football? I am tired of learning to like new rivals. I like the old ones better.

I second all of this. I don't know the whole history of how JMU and certain other schools have improved football so much while we have fallen behind, but it's clear that is what happened. I also think it's important for us to remember that other schools from the CAA may move up as well. It's not just we have fallen behind, but we likely will continue to. Unless some are predicting a major move to FCS.

(10-03-2022 03:58 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(09-30-2022 02:28 PM)Tribester Wrote:  If the new twelve team format was in place this year, one of the first round games would be #12 JMU versus #5 Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Talk about your David vs. Goliath matchup! Meanwhile, we get to play Stony Brook this weekend. Sigh.

JMU has had a nice run out of the gate but that scenario you paint is not happening. At least not this year. Even if JMU could and went undefeated - a huge achievement - their schedule strength is just a non starter. Their only P5 game is Louisville and a MEAC team one of their wins.

But back to Earth, we are playing Delaware this weekend in a huge conference game and a likely sellout or close. Will be a very festive weekend. JMU is playing at Arkansas State. Just for some real world perspective.

I said IF. The twelve team format guarantees a playoff spot to the highest ranked Group of Five school. JMU is currently #30 in the nation. If they win out, they will be the highest ranked G5 team. Funny you cherry pick the Arkansas State game while leaving out games with ODU, Marshall, App St., Louisville, and Coastal Carolina. When I was at W&M, JMU football was a joke we would schedule for an easy homecoming win. Now they have left us in the dust, as have others around us like ODU. You can stick your head in the sand if you want, but the simple fact is we have been left behind. The truth hurts.

(10-03-2022 09:11 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(10-03-2022 03:28 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  I'll bite.

It's a fair point. The expansion of the playoff makes life in the G5 more appealing. Eventually we will get a 16-team playoff with something like 10 autobids for the conference champs plus 6 at large.

As a W&M fan I would like to see games against JMU, ODU, ECU, Virginia, and VPI. I would like for some of those games to be at home. Under the current classification scheme, that ain't happening.

I have long held the knee-jerk assumption that FBS football is simply impossible for W&M, but having looked at small-time FBS athletic budgets, having seen teams around the state move up, and having been to a few small-time FBS games and venues in the interim (W&M at Charlotte most recently), I've come around to the opinion that it's entirely a matter of priorities.

At some point, probably sooner rather than later, Conference USA is going to get tired of having only nine members. Who do they add if they want 12 ? Or 14? Would they look at Delaware? Would they consider Villanova as an associate member for football? I am tired of learning to like new rivals. I like the old ones better.

I second all of this. I don't know the whole history of how JMU and certain other schools have improved football so much while we have fallen behind, but it's clear that is what happened. I also think it's important for us to remember that other schools from the CAA may move up as well. It's not just we have fallen behind, but we likely will continue to. Unless some are predicting a major move to FCS.

It’s really not too hard to understand. It’s the same reason the service academies, the Ivies, schools like SMU, Duke, Tulane have also fallen behind. Those were your national powers years ago. They have all remained fairly stable in size relative to the huge surge in college admissions particularly at secondary state schools the last 50 years, most who populate the G5 landscape. Schools like JMU, East Carolina, UNC Charlotte, ODU, etc. have quadrupled or more their student base. Most are over 20,000 or more now, Central Florida is now near 50,000. W&M isn’t much larger today than we were 50 years ago.

So you either adjust to schools your size and weight or W&M needs to dramatically expand. I don’t think you can expect both today - the same, distinct college we have today with a football program on steroids. Plus you need fans. Academic schools like W&M don’t have the fan base to support it.

I don’t lose a lot of sleep over it. I’m not convinced it’s even falling behind. I look at G5 and the conferences and there’s nothing appealing about them in my view. We just clobbered a G5 (Charlotte). That’s falling behind? Then you factor in the impact on other sports, particularly men’s basketball. Look at ODUs program. They became our punching bag when they moved to CUSA. They were arguably one of the premier programs - top 3 - in the State before G5 football. Do you think JMU is salivating to play a Sun Belt basketball schedule?

College football will always be P5 and then everyone else. Don’t kid yourself. We will never be P5 so I don’t see playing in the CAA for us as any falling behind from these G5 leagues.

(10-03-2022 09:29 PM)Tribester Wrote:  

(10-03-2022 03:58 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(09-30-2022 02:28 PM)Tribester Wrote:  If the new twelve team format was in place this year, one of the first round games would be #12 JMU versus #5 Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Talk about your David vs. Goliath matchup! Meanwhile, we get to play Stony Brook this weekend. Sigh.

JMU has had a nice run out of the gate but that scenario you paint is not happening. At least not this year. Even if JMU could and went undefeated - a huge achievement - their schedule strength is just a non starter. Their only P5 game is Louisville and a MEAC team one of their wins.

But back to Earth, we are playing Delaware this weekend in a huge conference game and a likely sellout or close. Will be a very festive weekend. JMU is playing at Arkansas State. Just for some real world perspective.

I said IF. The twelve team format guarantees a playoff spot to the highest ranked Group of Five school. JMU is currently #30 in the nation. If they win out, they will be the highest ranked G5 team. Funny you cherry pick the Arkansas State game while leaving out games with ODU, Marshall, App St., Louisville, and Coastal Carolina. When I was at W&M, JMU football was a joke we would schedule for an easy homecoming win. Now they have left us in the dust, as have others around us like ODU. You can stick your head in the sand if you want, but the simple fact is we have been left behind. The truth hurts.

I covered in the other thread. It’s apparently bothering you much more than me. I don’t see G5 as anything as a cluster with no end game. And I don’t see it as some huge step up.

And on cherry picking, weren’t you doing same with Stony Brook?

(10-03-2022 09:52 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Do you think JMU is salivating to play a Sun Belt basketball schedule?

Well no, we're not. Then again, we weren't salivating to play a CAA basketball schedule either. The CAA was fun when it included VCU, GMU, Richmond, and ODU. Richmond is obviously long gone, and the other schools have been gone for about a decade now. The CAA in its current form held very little appeal for most JMU fans from a basketball perspective.

I'm no less excited about SBC basketball than I was about CAA basketball. I know that's not a ringing endorsement of SBC basketball, but I'm not trying to sugarcoat things. We moved from one one-bid conference to another. I don't see it as a win or a loss.

Good luck to the Tribe for the rest of the football season. Beat Richmond.

(10-03-2022 10:36 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(10-03-2022 09:52 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Do you think JMU is salivating to play a Sun Belt basketball schedule?

Well no, we're not. Then again, we weren't salivating to play a CAA basketball schedule either. The CAA was fun when it included VCU, GMU, Richmond, and ODU. Richmond is obviously long gone, and the other schools have been gone for about a decade now. The CAA in its current form held very little appeal for most JMU fans from a basketball perspective.

I'm no less excited about SBC basketball than I was about CAA basketball. I know that's not a ringing endorsement of SBC basketball, but I'm not trying to sugarcoat things. We moved from one one-bid conference to another. I don't see it as a win or a loss.

Good luck to the Tribe for the rest of the football season. Beat Richmond.

That’s fair though in my view, having the tourney nearby (DC), playing schools on the east coast for road alums and just the regional coverage would tilt the scales for my interest. I still enjoy the CAA tourney. I like the rivalries developed with Hofstra and Elon. Not sure where the Sun Belt has their tourney. But understood, basketball isn’t why JMU made the move. And I don’t miss the VCUs and Masons so much. W&M has actually flourished overall in the CAA since they left, both on court (last year aside) and with fan interest. Our attendance has been among top 3 in league last 5-10 years largely because we have been winning.

On the early football success, I think that just shows how thin the line really is between upper FCS and G5. Similar to Marshall who swept and won the MAC their first season moving out of the So Con and 1AA. So I think the whole falling behind stuff from some is just overdone.

The other CAA move ups have been UMass, UConn, Georgia State and ODU. All huge schools, much bigger than W&M, and you notice, few mention them on the falling behind examples. I think JMU is a different case. All the pieces seem to be in place to make a very successful move into the upper tier of G5. Plus you have a huge opportunity for intense rivalries with App State and ODU.

(10-03-2022 03:28 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  I am tired of learning to like new rivals. I like the old ones better.

Word. We just keep inviting worse and worse teams into the fold to replace gone (in some cases long gone) rivalries.

(10-03-2022 10:36 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(10-03-2022 09:52 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Do you think JMU is salivating to play a Sun Belt basketball schedule?

Well no, we're not. Then again, we weren't salivating to play a CAA basketball schedule either. The CAA was fun when it included VCU, GMU, Richmond, and ODU. Richmond is obviously long gone, and the other schools have been gone for about a decade now. The CAA in its current form held very little appeal for most JMU fans from a basketball perspective.

I'm no less excited about SBC basketball than I was about CAA basketball. I know that's not a ringing endorsement of SBC basketball, but I'm not trying to sugarcoat things. We moved from one one-bid conference to another. I don't see it as a win or a loss.

Good luck to the Tribe for the rest of the football season. Beat Richmond.

Yeah, I think from my POV there's a hypothetical conference that consists of schools from like SC-DE that would be a lot of fun (Marshall, ODU, JMU, W&M, VCU, Richmond, Charlotte, Delaware, UNCW, CoC or so), but that's not gonna happen. I agree both conferences have a lot of dud matchups, I don't care about playing Monmouth, and I can't imagine ULM excites you.

In the system we have now, JMU makes more sense in the Sun Belt, and I think we fit better in the CAA.

(10-04-2022 08:48 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-03-2022 03:28 PM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  I am tired of learning to like new rivals. I like the old ones better.

Word. We just keep inviting worse and worse teams into the fold to replace gone (in some cases long gone) rivalries.

I just looked back at our football schedule from my freshman year, almost 50 years ago. Given we play one FBS team per year, often ACC, I count 7 of 11 games back then against “rivals” we are today either in conference or in Division. Point being, not a huge shift in 50 years. Of course this was just after the Lou Holtz/let’s join the ACC movement in 1970.

9/8/1973 at Virginia Tech W 31-24 - Blacksburg, Va.
9/15/1973 at North Carolina L 27-34 - Chapel Hill, N.C.
9/22/1972 at Wake Forest W 15-14 - Winston-Salem, N.C. Night game
* 9/29/1972 at The Citadel W 24-12 - Charleston, S.C. Night game
10/6/1973 VILLANOVA W 33-21 - Williamsburg
10/13/1973 at Vanderbilt L 7-20 - Nashville, Tenn. Night game
* 10/20/1973 DAVIDSON W 51-35 - Williamsburg
* 10/27/1973 VMI W 45-14 - Williamsburg
* 11/3/1973 at East Carolina L 3-34 - Greenville, N.C. Night game
11/10/1973 COLGATE L 42-49 - Williamsburg
* 11/17/1973 RICHMOND L 0-31 - Williamsburg

CUSA is probably pretty desperate. I wonder if they'd be willing to take on Football only members. If some combination of us, UR, Delaware, Villanova, and Army pitched this you could have a pretty nice Eastern Division--heck, even the disaster that is UMass could be an ok add. UR, Nova, and Army are all already full members of other conferences who float for football. Would be safe way for us to test FBS waters.

That would leave us with 3-4 OOC games at the FBS level where we could reintroduce some of the fun old matchups like ODU, JMU, and App St. If successful maybe even take on Tech and UVA on a regular schedule.

(10-04-2022 10:17 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  9/8/1973 at Virginia Tech W 31-24 - Blacksburg, Va.
9/15/1973 at North Carolina L 27-34 - Chapel Hill, N.C.
9/22/1972 at Wake Forest W 15-14 - Winston-Salem, N.C. Night game
* 9/29/1972 at The Citadel W 24-12 - Charleston, S.C. Night game
10/6/1973 VILLANOVA W 33-21 - Williamsburg
10/13/1973 at Vanderbilt L 7-20 - Nashville, Tenn. Night game
* 10/20/1973 DAVIDSON W 51-35 - Williamsburg
* 10/27/1973 VMI W 45-14 - Williamsburg
* 11/3/1973 at East Carolina L 3-34 - Greenville, N.C. Night game
11/10/1973 COLGATE L 42-49 - Williamsburg
* 11/17/1973 RICHMOND L 0-31 - Williamsburg

In 1973 our current schedule would have looked like this:
Charlotte - hadn't played football since 1948
Campbell - hadn't played football since 1950
Lafayette - D1 Independent
Elon - NAIA Carolinas Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Stony Brook - had never fielded a team
Delaware - D2 Independent
Towson - D3 Independent
Rhode Island - D2 Yankee Conference
Hampton - D2 CIAA
Villanova - D1 Independent
Richmond - D1 SoCon

Seems like a huge shift to me.

(10-04-2022 11:35 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-04-2022 10:17 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  9/8/1973 at Virginia Tech W 31-24 - Blacksburg, Va.
9/15/1973 at North Carolina L 27-34 - Chapel Hill, N.C.
9/22/1972 at Wake Forest W 15-14 - Winston-Salem, N.C. Night game
* 9/29/1972 at The Citadel W 24-12 - Charleston, S.C. Night game
10/6/1973 VILLANOVA W 33-21 - Williamsburg
10/13/1973 at Vanderbilt L 7-20 - Nashville, Tenn. Night game
* 10/20/1973 DAVIDSON W 51-35 - Williamsburg
* 10/27/1973 VMI W 45-14 - Williamsburg
* 11/3/1973 at East Carolina L 3-34 - Greenville, N.C. Night game
11/10/1973 COLGATE L 42-49 - Williamsburg
* 11/17/1973 RICHMOND L 0-31 - Williamsburg

In 1973 our current schedule would have looked like this:
Charlotte - hadn't played football since 1948
Campbell - hadn't played football since 1950
Lafayette - D1 Independent
Elon - NAIA Carolinas Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Stony Brook - had never fielded a team
Delaware - D2 Independent
Towson - D3 Independent
Rhode Island - D2 Yankee Conference
Hampton - D2 CIAA
Villanova - D1 Independent
Richmond - D1 SoCon

Seems like a huge shift to me.

50 years is a long, long time.

I think our schedule is largely the same today as it was 20 years ago... swap Boston U, JMU, UConn, and UMass of the A-10 for Elon, Towson, Stony Brook, and Hampton of the CAA. We filled our I-AA/FBS OOC games with Patriot League, SoCon, & MEAC teams then and we still do now. The A-10 had 4+ teams ranked annually and the CAA has 4+ ranked teams most years now. Aside from JMU, who was a legit longtime rival, the teams that have come and gone were not significant. It used to be JMU, Delaware, Villanova, Richmond, and now we have to find another school to replace JMU. That's the main difference between now and then. Basketball is another thing entirely, but football is mostly the same.

(10-04-2022 11:35 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-04-2022 10:17 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  9/8/1973 at Virginia Tech W 31-24 - Blacksburg, Va.
9/15/1973 at North Carolina L 27-34 - Chapel Hill, N.C.
9/22/1972 at Wake Forest W 15-14 - Winston-Salem, N.C. Night game
* 9/29/1972 at The Citadel W 24-12 - Charleston, S.C. Night game
10/6/1973 VILLANOVA W 33-21 - Williamsburg
10/13/1973 at Vanderbilt L 7-20 - Nashville, Tenn. Night game
* 10/20/1973 DAVIDSON W 51-35 - Williamsburg
* 10/27/1973 VMI W 45-14 - Williamsburg
* 11/3/1973 at East Carolina L 3-34 - Greenville, N.C. Night game
11/10/1973 COLGATE L 42-49 - Williamsburg
* 11/17/1973 RICHMOND L 0-31 - Williamsburg

In 1973 our current schedule would have looked like this:
Charlotte - hadn't played football since 1948
Campbell - hadn't played football since 1950
Lafayette - D1 Independent
Elon - NAIA Carolinas Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Stony Brook - had never fielded a team
Delaware - D2 Independent
Towson - D3 Independent
Rhode Island - D2 Yankee Conference
Hampton - D2 CIAA
Villanova - D1 Independent
Richmond - D1 SoCon

Seems like a huge shift to me.

Our HOME schedule in 1973:
Villanova
Davidson
VMI
Colgate
Richmond

Sorry but that isn’t a big change in 50 years. That could easily be next years schedule.

(10-04-2022 01:18 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  I think our schedule is largely the same today as it was 20 years ago... swap Boston U, JMU, UConn, and UMass of the A-10 for Elon, Towson, Stony Brook, and Hampton of the CAA.

Using your own example, we replaced 3 FCS teams and 1 defunct team with a Big South, Patriot League, NEC, and MEAC. Again it seems like a major step back to me. When everyone around you moves up, you have relatively moved down.

(10-04-2022 01:27 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Our HOME schedule in 1973:
Villanova
Davidson
VMI
Colgate
Richmond

Sorry but that isn’t a big change in 50 years. That could easily be next years schedule.

I wish that was our home schedule. Instead we're playing a bunch of start-ups and former D2/3s and then Richmond.

Why do some of you do this to yourselves? Can’t be happy with the CAA no matter what.

(10-04-2022 02:50 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(10-04-2022 01:18 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  I think our schedule is largely the same today as it was 20 years ago... swap Boston U, JMU, UConn, and UMass of the A-10 for Elon, Towson, Stony Brook, and Hampton of the CAA.

Using your own example, we replaced 3 FCS teams and 1 defunct team with a Big South, Patriot League, NEC, and MEAC. Again it seems like a major step back to me. When everyone around you moves up, you have relatively moved down.

I'm assuming you meant "replaced 3 FBS teams". I'm replying as if that's what you meant at least.

We "moved down" to where from where? Where did "everyone around us" move up to?

(10-04-2022 04:25 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Why do some of you do this to yourselves? Can’t be happy with the CAA no matter what.

Take out "with the CAA" and you nailed it.