(09-29-2022 07:45 AM)Sellers dweller Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 07:12 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 10:29 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Just a note I know MANY of us are proud of Chris Creighton and what he has accomplished here and is accomplishing here both on and off the field. There are countless posts throughout the years saying so. But wanting more doesn't make us bad folks it makes us true fans.

Wanting more is great. We should all want more. Is it realistic to think we would get more with a different coach? EMU football history would suggest NO.

This is my fear when people suggest getting rid of Creighton. I'm just as frustrated as anyone by the lack of progress over the last five years or so, but at the same time, hey we are winning 6-7 games a year, making bowl games, beating P5 teams, recruiting seems to be picking up, and Creighton runs a great off the field program which is something to really be proud of. As frustrating as some of it may be at least the team is competitive.

If we were to move in another direction and feel we could find a coach to move us to that next level...okay, but what if that doesn't work? Do we revert back to being the EMU of the 20+ years before Creighton going 2-10 and being out of games by the second quarter? As you point out Bob, (while things can change) history tells us that is the likely outcome.

I look at a program like WMU, they took a chance with Fleck, it work, and even since he left they sort of reverted back to what they have always been...a solid MAC program. Toledo as gone through head coaches and always stays competitive. We don't have a baseline history of being a competitive program.

It's really a difficult question to wrestle with, in my opinion.

we went 0-12 my sophomore year after we made the most slam dunk hire ever. i have NO interest going back. if our ceiling is a 7-5 team thats entertaining and beats P5 schools then so be it.

(09-29-2022 07:58 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 07:45 AM)Sellers dweller Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 07:12 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(09-28-2022 10:29 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Just a note I know MANY of us are proud of Chris Creighton and what he has accomplished here and is accomplishing here both on and off the field. There are countless posts throughout the years saying so. But wanting more doesn't make us bad folks it makes us true fans.

Wanting more is great. We should all want more. Is it realistic to think we would get more with a different coach? EMU football history would suggest NO.

This is my fear when people suggest getting rid of Creighton. I'm just as frustrated as anyone by the lack of progress over the last five years or so, but at the same time, hey we are winning 6-7 games a year, making bowl games, beating P5 teams, recruiting seems to be picking up, and Creighton runs a great off the field program which is something to really be proud of. As frustrating as some of it may be at least the team is competitive.

If we were to move in another direction and feel we could find a coach to move us to that next level...okay, but what if that doesn't work? Do we revert back to being the EMU of the 20+ years before Creighton going 2-10 and being out of games by the second quarter? As you point out Bob, (while things can change) history tells us that is the likely outcome.

I look at a program like WMU, they took a chance with Fleck, it work, and even since he left they sort of reverted back to what they have always been...a solid MAC program. Toledo as gone through head coaches and always stays competitive. We don't have a baseline history of being a competitive program.

It's really a difficult question to wrestle with, in my opinion.

we went 0-12 my sophomore year after we made the most slam dunk hire ever. i have NO interest going back. if our ceiling is a 7-5 team thats entertaining and beats P5 schools then so be it.

I'm pretty much on the same page as you.

I think Creighton (and the school, and the alumni) made changes for the better for the program. Reverting to the English days seems unlikely to me, but I get why everyone here is so emotionally scarred by that to the point where they’ve completely accepted inevitable mediocrity.

I think we can do way better, but honestly it doesn’t matter. He’s proven that the floor and the ceiling are basically the same thing since 2016, and was rewarded with a contract that incentivizes the status quo. He’ll be here as long as he wants to be.

(09-29-2022 10:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I think Creighton (and the school, and the alumni) made changes for the better for the program. Reverting to the English days seems unlikely to me, but I get why everyone here is so emotionally scarred by that to the point where they’ve completely accepted inevitable mediocrity.

I think we can do way better, but honestly it doesn’t matter. He’s proven that the floor and the ceiling are basically the same thing since 2016, and was rewarded with a contract that incentivizes the status quo. He’ll be here as long as he wants to be.

Where I disagree with you is that EMU has a ceiling and maybe a (now) better floor.

I don't see EMU as a program where we can get 5K students and 15K alums to attend a typical Saturday game.

We are not a football crazy school like say Marshall. Very little community involvement as we have no real EMU community (our community is what a zip code?).

Some will say that 30 years ago crowds were big. True. But the airwaves were not full of dozens and dozens of TV games, including our HOME games.

Unless the game atmosphere becomes a 'party' we will not get huge crowds.

Last year I attended a couple Howard games and they were full stadiums (say 7 or 8K). Great atmosphere. Watched the last game of the season on TV. Like a funeral home. 'Family and friends' atmosphere.

So I haven’t posted anything here since the Buffalo game. Starting the fourth quarter of that game until now my head has been a whirlwind of emotions with one being predominant: disappointment.

I know this team is better than what we saw on the field this past Saturday.

I know the coaches understand what it takes to win.

I know how frustrated EMU football fans have been for far too long.

Knowing all that, though, does nothing to lessen the sting of that loss. The Eagles should be 3-1. It was there for the taking. And when the moment presented itself, the players and coaches let it slip through their fingers. I am sure they are just as disappointed with that game as I am.

I can look back at that game and point to all kinds of issues. How do you lose a game in which you scored 31 points? How do you lose to an 0-3 team that was averaging a little better than 22 points a game before they put up 50 on you? What happened to football fundamentals…tackling, managing downs and distance, winning the turnover battle, and controlling the line of scrimmage? It all went so well in Arizona, and a week later, well….

2 and 2. Harumph! This team is better than that. I can take some solace in the fact there is a lot of season left. UMass should be a good opportunity to refocus and push back up above .500. UMass presents a chance to rebuild some confidence heading into the long stretch of MAC opponents. Buffalo is a MAC East opponent…that loss stings but means little on the road to Detroit. The road through the MAC West is still wide open.

After UMass, the next four games are against MAC West opponents…a chance to make a statement before you visit the East for two games then end the season at home against another West opponent. Buffalo is in the past, although it’s hard to get rid of that bitter taste of bile in the back of the throat.

Do your work against UMass, then focus on the road ahead. There is a lot of football left to be played. You are a better team than what you showed last Saturday. Live up to that.

Go Eagles!

(09-29-2022 10:31 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I think Creighton (and the school, and the alumni) made changes for the better for the program. Reverting to the English days seems unlikely to me, but I get why everyone here is so emotionally scarred by that to the point where they’ve completely accepted inevitable mediocrity.

I think we can do way better, but honestly it doesn’t matter. He’s proven that the floor and the ceiling are basically the same thing since 2016, and was rewarded with a contract that incentivizes the status quo. He’ll be here as long as he wants to be.

Where I disagree with you is that EMU has a ceiling and maybe a (now) better floor.

I don't see EMU as a program where we can get 5K students and 15K alums to attend a typical Saturday game.

We are not a football crazy school like say Marshall. Very little community involvement as we have no real EMU community (our community is what a zip code?).

Some will say that 30 years ago crowds were big. True. But the airwaves were not full of dozens and dozens of TV games, including our HOME games.

Unless the game atmosphere becomes a 'party' we will not get huge crowds.

Last year I attended a couple Howard games and they were full stadiums (say 7 or 8K). Great atmosphere. Watched the last game of the season on TV. Like a funeral home. 'Family and friends' atmosphere.

I don’t understand your point. How is NIU’s attendance compared to ours? Every time I’ve seen them on TV, their stadium is empty…just like Rynearson. You’re using schools that aren’t in our conference to justify your point. Every single MAC West team has made the MACC since Creighton has been here except for us. I refuse to believe our ceiling can’t be the same as Ball State’s or NIU’s. Come on.

Prior to hiring CC, another HC was offered and he turned it down saying he couldn't win here. He opted to go to another MAC school and won a championship.

The landscape at EMU now is far more attractive now than it was back then.

(09-29-2022 11:07 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:31 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I think Creighton (and the school, and the alumni) made changes for the better for the program. Reverting to the English days seems unlikely to me, but I get why everyone here is so emotionally scarred by that to the point where they’ve completely accepted inevitable mediocrity.

I think we can do way better, but honestly it doesn’t matter. He’s proven that the floor and the ceiling are basically the same thing since 2016, and was rewarded with a contract that incentivizes the status quo. He’ll be here as long as he wants to be.

Where I disagree with you is that EMU has a ceiling and maybe a (now) better floor.

I don't see EMU as a program where we can get 5K students and 15K alums to attend a typical Saturday game.

We are not a football crazy school like say Marshall. Very little community involvement as we have no real EMU community (our community is what a zip code?).

Some will say that 30 years ago crowds were big. True. But the airwaves were not full of dozens and dozens of TV games, including our HOME games.

Unless the game atmosphere becomes a 'party' we will not get huge crowds.

Last year I attended a couple Howard games and they were full stadiums (say 7 or 8K). Great atmosphere. Watched the last game of the season on TV. Like a funeral home. 'Family and friends' atmosphere.

I don’t understand your point. How is NIU’s attendance compared to ours? Every time I’ve seen them on TV, their stadium is empty…just like Rynearson. You’re using schools that aren’t in our conference to justify your point. Every single MAC West team has made the MACC since Creighton has been here except for us. I refuse to believe our ceiling can’t be the same as Ball State’s or NIU’s. Come on.

EagleSam, I couldn't agree more with your last two posts! As I wrote about the working world to CC last almost decade! CC is absolute class act in every way except winning, in EMU last 7 MAC seasons including the one game this year, CC is 5 games below .500 verus MAC schools! And, he's rewarded for basic expectations after almost a decade! I wish my boss was like that.........UMass we will win by 40 points! Worst team in D1! Keep posting! Always enjoy your posts!

(09-29-2022 11:15 AM)EagleHawk Wrote:  Prior to hiring CC, another HC was offered and he turned it down saying he couldn't win here. He opted to go to another MAC school and won a championship.

The landscape at EMU now is far more attractive now than it was back then.

Completely agree.

And we need more $ for good coordinators and also position coaches, to the degree possible.

For too long we try to do more with less. Now, instead of raising our asst' coaches pool greatly, I think we're seeing the MAC, as a whole, come back to our level of spending.

(09-29-2022 11:15 AM)EagleHawk Wrote:  Prior to hiring CC, another HC was offered and he turned it down saying he couldn't win here. He opted to go to another MAC school and won a championship.

The landscape at EMU now is far more attractive now than it was back then.

Agreed. And Creighton is largely responsible for that. Which is why I don’t think it’s realistic to expect us to revert back to the Ron English days if Creighton were to leave/be fired. But it’s all hypothetical. He’s not good enough to get poached by bigger schools and he’s not bad enough to get fired.

(09-29-2022 12:39 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 11:15 AM)EagleHawk Wrote:  Prior to hiring CC, another HC was offered and he turned it down saying he couldn't win here. He opted to go to another MAC school and won a championship.

The landscape at EMU now is far more attractive now than it was back then.

Agreed. And Creighton is largely responsible for that. Which is why I don’t think it’s realistic to expect us to revert back to the Ron English days if Creighton were to leave/be fired. But it’s all hypothetical. He’s not good enough to get poached by bigger schools and he’s not bad enough to get fired.

a counter point might be Colorado or Nebraska

Nebraska never should’ve fired Bo Pelini, but there’s a huge difference between winning 9 or 10 games every year and winning 6 or 7. If Creighton was as successful as Pelini was, he wouldn’t still be here.

(09-29-2022 10:33 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  So I haven’t posted anything here since the Buffalo game. Starting the fourth quarter of that game until now my head has been a whirlwind of emotions with one being predominant: disappointment.

I know this team is better than what we saw on the field this past Saturday.

I know the coaches understand what it takes to win.

I know how frustrated EMU football fans have been for far too long.

Knowing all that, though, does nothing to lessen the sting of that loss. The Eagles should be 3-1. It was there for the taking. And when the moment presented itself, the players and coaches let it slip through their fingers. I am sure they are just as disappointed with that game as I am.

I can look back at that game and point to all kinds of issues. How do you lose a game in which you scored 31 points? How do you lose to an 0-3 team that was averaging a little better than 22 points a game before they put up 50 on you? What happened to football fundamentals…tackling, managing downs and distance, winning the turnover battle, and controlling the line of scrimmage? It all went so well in Arizona, and a week later, well….

2 and 2. Harumph! This team is better than that. I can take some solace in the fact there is a lot of season left. UMass should be a good opportunity to refocus and push back up above .500. UMass presents a chance to rebuild some confidence heading into the long stretch of MAC opponents. Buffalo is a MAC East opponent…that loss stings but means little on the road to Detroit. The road through the MAC West is still wide open.

After UMass, the next four games are against MAC West opponents…a chance to make a statement before you visit the East for two games then end the season at home against another West opponent. Buffalo is in the past, although it’s hard to get rid of that bitter taste of bile in the back of the throat.

Do your work against UMass, then focus on the road ahead. There is a lot of football left to be played. You are a better team than what you showed last Saturday. Live up to that.

Go Eagles!

Well said Cid. As frustrated as we are, the players and coaches I assume are more pissed

You bring up a good point that The MAC West is still wide open. I do think this team has played great at times and we can get back to those ways. I trust that the film this week has been more eye opening to the coaches than the players.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/te...-minutemen

(09-29-2022 11:07 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:31 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I think Creighton (and the school, and the alumni) made changes for the better for the program. Reverting to the English days seems unlikely to me, but I get why everyone here is so emotionally scarred by that to the point where they’ve completely accepted inevitable mediocrity.

I think we can do way better, but honestly it doesn’t matter. He’s proven that the floor and the ceiling are basically the same thing since 2016, and was rewarded with a contract that incentivizes the status quo. He’ll be here as long as he wants to be.

Where I disagree with you is that EMU has a ceiling and maybe a (now) better floor.

I don't see EMU as a program where we can get 5K students and 15K alums to attend a typical Saturday game.

We are not a football crazy school like say Marshall. Very little community involvement as we have no real EMU community (our community is what a zip code?).

Some will say that 30 years ago crowds were big. True. But the airwaves were not full of dozens and dozens of TV games, including our HOME games.

Unless the game atmosphere becomes a 'party' we will not get huge crowds.

Last year I attended a couple Howard games and they were full stadiums (say 7 or 8K). Great atmosphere. Watched the last game of the season on TV. Like a funeral home. 'Family and friends' atmosphere.

I don’t understand your point. How is NIU’s attendance compared to ours? Every time I’ve seen them on TV, their stadium is empty…just like Rynearson. You’re using schools that aren’t in our conference to justify your point. Every single MAC West team has made the MACC since Creighton has been here except for us. I refuse to believe our ceiling can’t be the same as Ball State’s or NIU’s. Come on.

This is spot on — as per usual. While NIU has established a championship culture over the past 20 years that would be difficult for us to replicate, there’s no reason why we can’t be at a Ball State level of attainment. I don’t think that expectation is unreasonable.

(09-29-2022 11:15 AM)EagleHawk Wrote:  Prior to hiring CC, another HC was offered and he turned it down saying he couldn't win here. He opted to go to another MAC school and won a championship.

The landscape at EMU now is far more attractive now than it was back then.

Dino, eh?

(09-29-2022 04:31 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 11:07 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:31 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I think Creighton (and the school, and the alumni) made changes for the better for the program. Reverting to the English days seems unlikely to me, but I get why everyone here is so emotionally scarred by that to the point where they’ve completely accepted inevitable mediocrity.

I think we can do way better, but honestly it doesn’t matter. He’s proven that the floor and the ceiling are basically the same thing since 2016, and was rewarded with a contract that incentivizes the status quo. He’ll be here as long as he wants to be.

Where I disagree with you is that EMU has a ceiling and maybe a (now) better floor.

I don't see EMU as a program where we can get 5K students and 15K alums to attend a typical Saturday game.

We are not a football crazy school like say Marshall. Very little community involvement as we have no real EMU community (our community is what a zip code?).

Some will say that 30 years ago crowds were big. True. But the airwaves were not full of dozens and dozens of TV games, including our HOME games.

Unless the game atmosphere becomes a 'party' we will not get huge crowds.

Last year I attended a couple Howard games and they were full stadiums (say 7 or 8K). Great atmosphere. Watched the last game of the season on TV. Like a funeral home. 'Family and friends' atmosphere.

I don’t understand your point. How is NIU’s attendance compared to ours? Every time I’ve seen them on TV, their stadium is empty…just like Rynearson. You’re using schools that aren’t in our conference to justify your point. Every single MAC West team has made the MACC since Creighton has been here except for us. I refuse to believe our ceiling can’t be the same as Ball State’s or NIU’s. Come on.

This is spot on — as per usual. While NIU has established a championship culture over the past 20 years that would be difficult for us to replicate, there’s no reason why we can’t be at a Ball State level of attainment. I don’t think that expectation is unreasonable.

Ball State doesn't have college football's most recognized brand 7 miles down the road. EMU is the HARDEST place to win, period. It is a small miracle that Creighton has done what he's done. Nobody who's anybody would take this job. I wouldn't roll the dice if I was EMU, I would try my best to give everything CC needs to win and hope for the best. This program is a house of cards and it could easily go south in a hurry.

(09-29-2022 06:44 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 04:31 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 11:07 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:31 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I think Creighton (and the school, and the alumni) made changes for the better for the program. Reverting to the English days seems unlikely to me, but I get why everyone here is so emotionally scarred by that to the point where they’ve completely accepted inevitable mediocrity.

I think we can do way better, but honestly it doesn’t matter. He’s proven that the floor and the ceiling are basically the same thing since 2016, and was rewarded with a contract that incentivizes the status quo. He’ll be here as long as he wants to be.

Where I disagree with you is that EMU has a ceiling and maybe a (now) better floor.

I don't see EMU as a program where we can get 5K students and 15K alums to attend a typical Saturday game.

We are not a football crazy school like say Marshall. Very little community involvement as we have no real EMU community (our community is what a zip code?).

Some will say that 30 years ago crowds were big. True. But the airwaves were not full of dozens and dozens of TV games, including our HOME games.

Unless the game atmosphere becomes a 'party' we will not get huge crowds.

Last year I attended a couple Howard games and they were full stadiums (say 7 or 8K). Great atmosphere. Watched the last game of the season on TV. Like a funeral home. 'Family and friends' atmosphere.

I don’t understand your point. How is NIU’s attendance compared to ours? Every time I’ve seen them on TV, their stadium is empty…just like Rynearson. You’re using schools that aren’t in our conference to justify your point. Every single MAC West team has made the MACC since Creighton has been here except for us. I refuse to believe our ceiling can’t be the same as Ball State’s or NIU’s. Come on.

This is spot on — as per usual. While NIU has established a championship culture over the past 20 years that would be difficult for us to replicate, there’s no reason why we can’t be at a Ball State level of attainment. I don’t think that expectation is unreasonable.

Ball State doesn't have college football's most recognized brand 7 miles down the road. EMU is the HARDEST place to win, period. It is a small miracle that Creighton has done what he's done. Nobody who's anybody would take this job. I wouldn't roll the dice if I was EMU, I would try my best to give everything CC needs to win and hope for the best. This program is a house of cards and it could easily go south in a hurry.

Nonsense. I’m so sick of hearing about Ann Arbor. Such a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we really believe that is true, we should put zero effort/money in the program, because why bother?

Stan Heath has said that the Ypsilanti/Ann Arbor area is a huge draw for his recruits, so it’s all a matter of mindset. We do not compete with UM for football recruits, coaches, etc. There’s no reason for our program to be affected by theirs. Two completely different worlds. But it’s an excellent excuse for those who accept failure.

(09-29-2022 08:19 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 06:44 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 04:31 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 11:07 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-29-2022 10:31 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Where I disagree with you is that EMU has a ceiling and maybe a (now) better floor.

I don't see EMU as a program where we can get 5K students and 15K alums to attend a typical Saturday game.

We are not a football crazy school like say Marshall. Very little community involvement as we have no real EMU community (our community is what a zip code?).

Some will say that 30 years ago crowds were big. True. But the airwaves were not full of dozens and dozens of TV games, including our HOME games.

Unless the game atmosphere becomes a 'party' we will not get huge crowds.

Last year I attended a couple Howard games and they were full stadiums (say 7 or 8K). Great atmosphere. Watched the last game of the season on TV. Like a funeral home. 'Family and friends' atmosphere.

I don’t understand your point. How is NIU’s attendance compared to ours? Every time I’ve seen them on TV, their stadium is empty…just like Rynearson. You’re using schools that aren’t in our conference to justify your point. Every single MAC West team has made the MACC since Creighton has been here except for us. I refuse to believe our ceiling can’t be the same as Ball State’s or NIU’s. Come on.

This is spot on — as per usual. While NIU has established a championship culture over the past 20 years that would be difficult for us to replicate, there’s no reason why we can’t be at a Ball State level of attainment. I don’t think that expectation is unreasonable.

Ball State doesn't have college football's most recognized brand 7 miles down the road. EMU is the HARDEST place to win, period. It is a small miracle that Creighton has done what he's done. Nobody who's anybody would take this job. I wouldn't roll the dice if I was EMU, I would try my best to give everything CC needs to win and hope for the best. This program is a house of cards and it could easily go south in a hurry.

Nonsense. I’m so sick of hearing about Ann Arbor. Such a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we really believe that is true, we should put zero effort/money in the program, because why bother?

Stan Heath has said that the Ypsilanti/Ann Arbor area is a huge draw for his recruits, so it’s all a matter of mindset. We do not compete with UM for football recruits, coaches, etc. There’s no reason for our program to be affected by theirs. Two completely different worlds. But it’s an excellent excuse for those who accept failure.

Chris Creighton hasn't failed but the previous 8 coaches did...MISERABLY. As far as basketball not being as effected by U-M's suffocating shadow, that is true. Michigan football has been a juggernaut for generations, their basketball program has not. There is no comparison. EMU basketball has also enjoyed much more success historically than football AND it is a lot easier to build a 12 man team than it is finding 60 players to play in relative obscurity. Creighton is going to be as good as it gets here, let's all hope he takes it to the next level.

Back to UMASS. This is a huge opportunity for the EMU defense to redeem themselves. UMASS's offense is flat out terrible. Apparently they use a run-heavy scheme which could present a challenge but they have the worst passing offense in D1. If UMASS scores more than 14 it will be a disappointment.

Not too worried about the EMU offense. What's the word on Powell? I'd like to see Smith be the starter but Powell needs to be available at some point. Also like to see Hass get more touches.