Well, for 30 years my job was to collect and analyze financial information for the purpose of extending credit to customers for commercial real estate projects. The last 15 years was spent managing teams of bankers who did the same thing. I’m not an expert on much, but I know this stuff inside out.

Commie Tom, no banker worth his salt pays any attention to real estate values provided by a customer. When you are making loans the size of those obtained by Trump the personal financial statement really doesn’t matter because the loans don’t carry personal recourse and your borrowing entity will be required to be a single asset, bankruptcy remote, entity.

You are underwriting the project. The only concern with the borrower is being able to verify they have the required equity available to meet the difference between the project cost and the loan amount plus a cushion to be able to fund any cost overruns/out of balance situation.

Any real estate taken as collateral must, by federal law, be appraised by a third party, independent, certified appraiser, but the bank has already come up with their own max loan value before that appraisal is received. That’s because bank’s lend on cash flow, not appraised value. The only time the appraisal comes in to play is if the value doesn’t support the amount you planned on lending based on your cash flow projections.

I would say about half of all my real estate customers over the years inflated their net worth by overstating property values. I base this on the fact that I always valued off cash flow and what multiples people were paying for that cash flow based on property type. Customer values are really nothing but their opinion. Some would value it based on what they thought they could sell it for, some would use what they paid for it, some would use most recent appraisal, but it didn’t matter because the job of the bank is to make its own determination of values.

This is a crap suit. She claiming he committed fraud, but she’s missing something rather important - who’s the victim of the fraud? No bank is claiming Trump defrauded them. No investor is claiming Trump committed fraud against them. No insurance company is claiming fraud. Who did he commit this fraud against?

It will be thrown out of court the Wednesday after the election. Clownworld.

(09-22-2022 12:29 AM)banker Wrote:  Well, for 30 years my job was to collect and analyze financial information for the purpose of extending credit to customers for commercial real estate projects. The last 15 years was spent managing teams of bankers who did the same thing. I’m not an expert on much, but I know this stuff inside out.

Commie Tom, no banker worth his salt pays any attention to real estate values provided by a customer. When you are making loans the size of those obtained by Trump the personal financial statement really doesn’t matter because the loans don’t carry personal recourse and your borrowing entity will be required to be a single asset, bankruptcy remote, entity.

You are underwriting the project. The only concern with the borrower is being able to verify they have the required equity available to meet the difference between the project cost and the loan amount plus a cushion to be able to fund any cost overruns/out of balance situation.

Any real estate taken as collateral must, by federal law, be appraised by a third party, independent, certified appraiser, but the bank has already come up with their own max loan value before that appraisal is received. That’s because bank’s lend on cash flow, not appraised value. The only time the appraisal comes in to play is if the value doesn’t support the amount you planned on lending based on your cash flow projections.

I would say about half of all my real estate customers over the years inflated their net worth by overstating property values. I base this on the fact that I always valued off cash flow and what multiples people were paying for that cash flow based on property type. Customer values are really nothing but their opinion. Some would value it based on what they thought they could sell it for, some would use what they paid for it, some would use most recent appraisal, but it didn’t matter because the job of the bank is to make its own determination of values.

This is a crap suit. She claiming he committed fraud, but she’s missing something rather important - who’s the victim of the fraud? No bank is claiming Trump defrauded them. No investor is claiming Trump committed fraud against them. No insurance company is claiming fraud. Who did he commit this fraud against?

Letitia is stupid. Like I said.

(09-22-2022 12:29 AM)banker Wrote:  Well, for 30 years my job was to collect and analyze financial information for the purpose of extending credit to customers for commercial real estate projects. The last 15 years was spent managing teams of bankers who did the same thing. I’m not an expert on much, but I know this stuff inside out.

Commie Tom, no banker worth his salt pays any attention to real estate values provided by a customer. When you are making loans the size of those obtained by Trump the personal financial statement really doesn’t matter because the loans don’t carry personal recourse and your borrowing entity will be required to be a single asset, bankruptcy remote, entity.

You are underwriting the project. The only concern with the borrower is being able to verify they have the required equity available to meet the difference between the project cost and the loan amount plus a cushion to be able to fund any cost overruns/out of balance situation.

Any real estate taken as collateral must, by federal law, be appraised by a third party, independent, certified appraiser, but the bank has already come up with their own max loan value before that appraisal is received. That’s because bank’s lend on cash flow, not appraised value. The only time the appraisal comes in to play is if the value doesn’t support the amount you planned on lending based on your cash flow projections.

I would say about half of all my real estate customers over the years inflated their net worth by overstating property values. I base this on the fact that I always valued off cash flow and what multiples people were paying for that cash flow based on property type. Customer values are really nothing but their opinion. Some would value it based on what they thought they could sell it for, some would use what they paid for it, some would use most recent appraisal, but it didn’t matter because the job of the bank is to make its own determination of values.

This is a crap suit. She claiming he committed fraud, but she’s missing something rather important - who’s the victim of the fraud? No bank is claiming Trump defrauded them. No investor is claiming Trump committed fraud against them. No insurance company is claiming fraud. Who did he commit this fraud against?

You must not realize you're arguing with a corporate real estate lawyer who also owns a bank and who has been personally harmed by Trump. There is no area in which Tom is not an expert, you should know that by now.

(09-22-2022 12:29 AM)banker Wrote:  Well, for 30 years my job was to collect and analyze financial information for the purpose of extending credit to customers for commercial real estate projects. The last 15 years was spent managing teams of bankers who did the same thing. I’m not an expert on much, but I know this stuff inside out.
Commie Tom, no banker worth his salt pays any attention to real estate values provided by a customer. When you are making loans the size of those obtained by Trump the personal financial statement really doesn’t matter because the loans don’t carry personal recourse and your borrowing entity will be required to be a single asset, bankruptcy remote, entity.
You are underwriting the project. The only concern with the borrower is being able to verify they have the required equity available to meet the difference between the project cost and the loan amount plus a cushion to be able to fund any cost overruns/out of balance situation.
Any real estate taken as collateral must, by federal law, be appraised by a third party, independent, certified appraiser, but the bank has already come up with their own max loan value before that appraisal is received. That’s because bank’s lend on cash flow, not appraised value. The only time the appraisal comes in to play is if the value doesn’t support the amount you planned on lending based on your cash flow projections.
I would say about half of all my real estate customers over the years inflated their net worth by overstating property values. I base this on the fact that I always valued off cash flow and what multiples people were paying for that cash flow based on property type. Customer values are really nothing but their opinion. Some would value it based on what they thought they could sell it for, some would use what they paid for it, some would use most recent appraisal, but it didn’t matter because the job of the bank is to make its own determination of values.
This is a crap suit. She claiming he committed fraud, but she’s missing something rather important - who’s the victim of the fraud? No bank is claiming Trump defrauded them. No investor is claiming Trump committed fraud against them. No insurance company is claiming fraud. Who did he commit this fraud against?

And taxing authorities also have their own appraisers and do basically the same thing. I think the substance of her complaint is that properties were valued higher for obtaining loans than they were for real estate taxes.

So is your house, for probably 75% of homeowners reading this. That's not fraud, that's the way the system works.

(09-21-2022 04:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 03:41 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Leftists have no clue how business and finance works. They just go after the chum like catfish in a pond.

Exactly. Anyone ever get a loan from the bank? Did they just say "cool" when you said your collateral was worth 100 million---or did they say they would get it appraised? Every real estate loan made has an appraisal in the file that gives a market value estimated for the collateral property. You dont get to just walk in and tell them--"Oh yeah---"My home is worth at least 750 million." So---mark my words. In the end---this whole case is going to amount to a difference of opinion between the the NYAG's opinion of value and the real estate appraiser who did the appraisal in the loan file. Heck, Leticia even tweeted out that one of the problems is that Trump over valued his home because Trump claimed it was 30,000 square feet when her office knows its only 10,000 square feet. The first thing I thought of was----"I wonder when her office measured Trumps home?" I mean---surely they measured it before making such a charge, right? I'm betting right now that the 10,000 square feet figure Leticia is using is for one floor---and trumps penthouse makes up the entire top floor.......but I bet it turns out that the top floor penthouse is actually THREE full floors.

Just one problem. Highly doubt any of us have the money or history of trump, who undoubtedly was given special treatment. And actually, MANY banks did reject him. He was basically left with Deutsche Bank.

Alternate reality:
1. Joe is crushing it
2. Trump is evil and going to jail
3. Twitter is real life
4. Blue states welcome illegal immigrants

(09-22-2022 07:43 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  Alternate reality:
1. Joe is crushing it
2. Trump is evil and going to jail
3. Twitter is real life
4. Blue states welcome illegal immigrants

5. Republicans are the fascists.

(09-21-2022 11:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

Quote:New York Attorney General Letitia James announced a sweeping lawsuit Wednesday against former President donald trump, his three eldest children and the trump Organization in connection with her yearslong civil investigation into the company’s business practices.

In its 220-page suit, James’ office details efforts by the former president to inflate his personal net worth to attract favorable loan agreements.

New York AG sues trump, his children and their company on charges of large-scale business fraud

Also, alleged crimes referred to the US Attorney for NY and the IRS. The trumps are about to go through some things.

You can read the court filing here: https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.co...AINT_1.pdf

Surprise! A Leftwing Democrat AG going after Republicans! What a concept, "who'd a thunk it?"

If this AG is claiming the fraud is listing RE values higher than the tax assessed values then she's either a whole other world of stupid or just playing political games. My money is on the first. She's been down this road before.

(09-22-2022 07:28 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just one problem. Highly doubt any of us have the money or history of trump, who undoubtedly was given special treatment. And actually, MANY banks did reject him. He was basically left with Deutsche Bank.

Based on decades if not centuries of 'how things work', how is this a problem? This is a feature, not a problem. It's how this business works.

As to him being basically left with DB, it's not as if DB is some fly-by-night payday lender, but is instead one of the largest commercial lenders in the world.... who gives 'special treatment' to every single one of their borrowers, because it takes people financially JUST LIKE Trump to need their commercial services. Go try and get DB to loan you money for your bodega. GE once turned me down for a 30% IRR on a deal that they had their own guarantee on... because it was 'only' $2mm. LITERALLY free money... but too small for them to mess with.

So yeah, many banks reject people including Trump for all sorts of reasons... USUALLY because it doesn't fit their investment portfolio model, or perhaps even some structured investment they are ultimately brokering.

Special treatment? As compared to you or me, sure... as compared to tons of other real-estate people? No evidence of this whatsoever.


But hey... let's run with this idea anyway....

Are you suggesting that there isn't anyone else in the country or even in NYC right now who is offering for sale a property of ANY kind.... art, collectible, car, boat, house.... where the appraised value for taxes of the city/state/municipality/appraisal district is not less than the asking price?? Or the amount requested in a loan isn't more than the appraised TAXABLE value? Not ONE car owner is 'upside down' in their car loan right now? Not one??

If not, then please... show me the 'special' treatment. It seems obvious that the only 'special' treatment being afforded here is political... and not favorable.

Again, more liberal nonsense. It’s just garbage, just like the agenda they throw in our faces everyday.

Tom understands lending as well as he understands deductibles.

(09-22-2022 07:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-22-2022 12:29 AM)banker Wrote:  Well, for 30 years my job was to collect and analyze financial information for the purpose of extending credit to customers for commercial real estate projects. The last 15 years was spent managing teams of bankers who did the same thing. I’m not an expert on much, but I know this stuff inside out.
Commie Tom, no banker worth his salt pays any attention to real estate values provided by a customer. When you are making loans the size of those obtained by Trump the personal financial statement really doesn’t matter because the loans don’t carry personal recourse and your borrowing entity will be required to be a single asset, bankruptcy remote, entity.
You are underwriting the project. The only concern with the borrower is being able to verify they have the required equity available to meet the difference between the project cost and the loan amount plus a cushion to be able to fund any cost overruns/out of balance situation.
Any real estate taken as collateral must, by federal law, be appraised by a third party, independent, certified appraiser, but the bank has already come up with their own max loan value before that appraisal is received. That’s because bank’s lend on cash flow, not appraised value. The only time the appraisal comes in to play is if the value doesn’t support the amount you planned on lending based on your cash flow projections.
I would say about half of all my real estate customers over the years inflated their net worth by overstating property values. I base this on the fact that I always valued off cash flow and what multiples people were paying for that cash flow based on property type. Customer values are really nothing but their opinion. Some would value it based on what they thought they could sell it for, some would use what they paid for it, some would use most recent appraisal, but it didn’t matter because the job of the bank is to make its own determination of values.
This is a crap suit. She claiming he committed fraud, but she’s missing something rather important - who’s the victim of the fraud? No bank is claiming Trump defrauded them. No investor is claiming Trump committed fraud against them. No insurance company is claiming fraud. Who did he commit this fraud against?

And taxing authorities also have their own appraisers and do basically the same thing. I think the substance of her complaint is that properties were valued higher for obtaining loans than they were for real estate taxes.

So is your house, for probably 75% of homeowners reading this. That's not fraud, that's the way the system works.

After reading the complaint, her actionable counts are extremely thin -- both posts above are spot on point.

(09-22-2022 12:58 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(09-22-2022 07:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-22-2022 12:29 AM)banker Wrote:  Well, for 30 years my job was to collect and analyze financial information for the purpose of extending credit to customers for commercial real estate projects. The last 15 years was spent managing teams of bankers who did the same thing. I’m not an expert on much, but I know this stuff inside out.
Commie Tom, no banker worth his salt pays any attention to real estate values provided by a customer. When you are making loans the size of those obtained by Trump the personal financial statement really doesn’t matter because the loans don’t carry personal recourse and your borrowing entity will be required to be a single asset, bankruptcy remote, entity.
You are underwriting the project. The only concern with the borrower is being able to verify they have the required equity available to meet the difference between the project cost and the loan amount plus a cushion to be able to fund any cost overruns/out of balance situation.
Any real estate taken as collateral must, by federal law, be appraised by a third party, independent, certified appraiser, but the bank has already come up with their own max loan value before that appraisal is received. That’s because bank’s lend on cash flow, not appraised value. The only time the appraisal comes in to play is if the value doesn’t support the amount you planned on lending based on your cash flow projections.
I would say about half of all my real estate customers over the years inflated their net worth by overstating property values. I base this on the fact that I always valued off cash flow and what multiples people were paying for that cash flow based on property type. Customer values are really nothing but their opinion. Some would value it based on what they thought they could sell it for, some would use what they paid for it, some would use most recent appraisal, but it didn’t matter because the job of the bank is to make its own determination of values.
This is a crap suit. She claiming he committed fraud, but she’s missing something rather important - who’s the victim of the fraud? No bank is claiming Trump defrauded them. No investor is claiming Trump committed fraud against them. No insurance company is claiming fraud. Who did he commit this fraud against?

And taxing authorities also have their own appraisers and do basically the same thing. I think the substance of her complaint is that properties were valued higher for obtaining loans than they were for real estate taxes.

So is your house, for probably 75% of homeowners reading this. That's not fraud, that's the way the system works.

After reading the complaint, her actionable counts are extremely thin -- both posts above are spot on point.

She only wants the headlines. She knows idiots will believe her because Trump. She also knows this will go nowhere.

Maybe another reason for 'why NOW?'

She should be disbarred

Sent from my SM-F721U using Tapatalk

(09-22-2022 02:14 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Maybe another reason for 'why NOW?'

This is likely the reason Lateeter is bringing charges now. Same reason the DA decided to bring charges against the Duke lacrosse team.