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The dying middle class of college athletics
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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The dying middle class of college athletics
College athletics has its haves and its have nots. In football we call them the P5 (although their seems to be a growing rift even within that class structure). Basketball has the P5 plus the Big East and sometimes a few others get lumped into that upper strata. On the other end of the structure you’ve got conferences with shoe string budgets who merely stay D1 (or FBS) to leech dollars of the mega programs that bring in the tv dollars to the post season structure that they are all too happy to claim a part of because, after all, we’re all D1, so we all earned it TOGETHER.

In between you’ve got some truly aspirational programs that make an effort to swing above their weight class and despite having less resources, build enough respectability to break into that upper crust.

There’s just one problem—the upper crust is an old boys country club and nouveau riche programs need not apply. When it comes to scheduling, the big guys don’t want to date risk losing to these aspirational schools so that make excuses as to why they need to load up on cupcakes (and I still can’t fathom how these cupcakes aren’t killing their SOS but there’s probably something built into the formula at the behest of the cupcake eaters.)

We’ve sent the message through the ranks of D1 that there’s no point in trying. If you try, you become a threat, and if you’re a threat the. You get blackballed, that is until raiding amongst the P5 creates a need for additional programs.

I wish there was some way to cut out the cupcakes and reward the programs on the edge of “the club”.
09-19-2022 08:59 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
How can you want to reward (root for) schools on the edge of "the club" AND still be a big Ohio St. (old boy's country club) fan? Seems mutually exclusive.
09-19-2022 09:49 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
It’s always toughest for those that hit the glass ceiling because they can see the promised land, yet there’s a physical barrier that prevents them from getting there and it might never be moved.
09-19-2022 10:23 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
For some have-nots the solution is to accept relative mediocrity in the big-time sports but invest enough resources to excel nationally in selected niche sports.

It’s been ten years since a power conference school won an NCAA men’s ice hockey championship. Eight of the past ten men’s volleyball championships have been won by non-power conference schools. Non-power conference schools still compete for lacrosse titles. In the most recently contested seasons, six of the top ten ranked teams in men’s water polo, five of the top ten ranked teams in beach volleyball, and four of the top ten ranked teams in women’s water polo have been from non-power conference schools.

Where TV and NIL money aren’t yet significant factors, the playing field is still even enough for some have-nots to compete at elite levels.
09-19-2022 11:19 PM
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AuzGrams Offline
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
I really hope the P5 stays and we have a 6+6 format. This would be the best for all deserving parties IMO.

B1G (16): USC, UCLA, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State Maryland, Rutgers

SEC (16): Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Arkansas, Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss. State, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

ACC (14 + Notre Dame): Miami, Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College

PAC-12 (12): Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Kansas, California, Utah, Colorado, Texas Tech, Arizona State, Arizona, Oregon State, Washington State

Big 12 (12): BYU, Boise State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Iowa State, Memphis, Cincinnati, West Virginia, UCF

Then the MWC, AAC, Sun Belt, C-USA (and doubtful the MAC) continue to fight over some programs.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2022 01:13 AM by AuzGrams.)
09-20-2022 12:57 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
(09-19-2022 09:49 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  How can you want to reward (root for) schools on the edge of "the club" AND still be a big Ohio St. (old boy's country club) fan? Seems mutually exclusive.

I grew up in central Ohio and have lot of friends and families who are alums (albeit I decided to attend elsewhere) hence the Buckeye ties. I don’t see why having an affiliation with one school who is part of the system means that I can’t see that there are inherent problems with it.

I’m a Cincinnati Bearcats fan too and that is a fan base that is all too familiar with being just on the outside of the system.
09-20-2022 06:47 AM
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quo vadis Online
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
(09-19-2022 08:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  College athletics has its haves and its have nots. In football we call them the P5 (although their seems to be a growing rift even within that class structure). Basketball has the P5 plus the Big East and sometimes a few others get lumped into that upper strata. On the other end of the structure you’ve got conferences with shoe string budgets who merely stay D1 (or FBS) to leech dollars of the mega programs that bring in the tv dollars to the post season structure that they are all too happy to claim a part of because, after all, we’re all D1, so we all earned it TOGETHER.

In between you’ve got some truly aspirational programs that make an effort to swing above their weight class and despite having less resources, build enough respectability to break into that upper crust.

There’s just one problem—the upper crust is an old boys country club and nouveau riche programs need not apply. When it comes to scheduling, the big guys don’t want to date risk losing to these aspirational schools so that make excuses as to why they need to load up on cupcakes (and I still can’t fathom how these cupcakes aren’t killing their SOS but there’s probably something built into the formula at the behest of the cupcake eaters.)

We’ve sent the message through the ranks of D1 that there’s no point in trying. If you try, you become a threat, and if you’re a threat the. You get blackballed, that is until raiding amongst the P5 creates a need for additional programs.

I wish there was some way to cut out the cupcakes and reward the programs on the edge of “the club”.

I don't know. If we regard the AAC as having aspirational schools, it seems like AAC teams are able to schedule P5. Just recently Cincy played Arkansas, ECU played NC State, Temple played Rutgers, Houston played Texas Tech, USF played Florida, UCF played Louisville, Tulane played Kansas State, and I think SMU plays TCU this weekend.

Also, the MW is another strong G5 conference, and off the top of my head Boise played Oregon State, Fresno State played USC, and I believe San Diego State is playing both Arizona and Utah this year.

So I am not sure that the P5 dodge aspirational schools. FWIW, if I was a P5 I would - why risk losing to a UCF when you can play a CUSA cupcake? But I am not sure that they do.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2022 08:08 AM by quo vadis.)
09-20-2022 08:04 AM
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
(09-19-2022 08:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  College athletics has its haves and its have nots. In football we call them the P5 (although their seems to be a growing rift even within that class structure). Basketball has the P5 plus the Big East and sometimes a few others get lumped into that upper strata. On the other end of the structure you’ve got conferences with shoe string budgets who merely stay D1 (or FBS) to leech dollars of the mega programs that bring in the tv dollars to the post season structure that they are all too happy to claim a part of because, after all, we’re all D1, so we all earned it TOGETHER.

In between you’ve got some truly aspirational programs that make an effort to swing above their weight class and despite having less resources, build enough respectability to break into that upper crust.

There’s just one problem—the upper crust is an old boys country club and nouveau riche programs need not apply. When it comes to scheduling, the big guys don’t want to date risk losing to these aspirational schools so that make excuses as to why they need to load up on cupcakes (and I still can’t fathom how these cupcakes aren’t killing their SOS but there’s probably something built into the formula at the behest of the cupcake eaters.)

We’ve sent the message through the ranks of D1 that there’s no point in trying. If you try, you become a threat, and if you’re a threat the. You get blackballed, that is until raiding amongst the P5 creates a need for additional programs.

I wish there was some way to cut out the cupcakes and reward the programs on the edge of “the club”.


This is a red herring.

In the 00s, Gonzaga & Butler & Xavier moved way up the ladder. They are elite programs now.

In the 10s, did VCU, Wichita, and Loyola become blackballed after Final Four runs? Or did they get a conference promotion?



In football, did 13-0 regular seasons cause Cincinnati & UCF to become blackballed? Or did it set them up to be promoted to a better conference?

Did TCU, Utah, and Boise's incredible runs in the late 00's cause them to be blackballed? Or did it set them up to be promoted to better conferences & make it easier for them to schedule respectable programs at home?
09-20-2022 08:06 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
When I think of the decay of the "middle class" of CFB, I don't think of the aspirational schools like Cincinnati and UCF; I think of the mid-tier P5 programs that were once pretty good that have either been bad or mediocre the past 10-20 years- schools like Colorado, Cal, Stanford, Syracuse, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Illinois, South Carolina, Tennessee, etc. A few of these schools are off to good starts this year, but will it last? We shall see, but recent history has not been good for them.
09-20-2022 08:18 AM
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
(09-19-2022 08:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  College athletics has its haves and its have nots. In football we call them the P5 (although their seems to be a growing rift even within that class structure). Basketball has the P5 plus the Big East and sometimes a few others get lumped into that upper strata. On the other end of the structure you’ve got conferences with shoe string budgets who merely stay D1 (or FBS) to leech dollars of the mega programs that bring in the tv dollars to the post season structure that they are all too happy to claim a part of because, after all, we’re all D1, so we all earned it TOGETHER.

In between you’ve got some truly aspirational programs that make an effort to swing above their weight class and despite having less resources, build enough respectability to break into that upper crust.

There’s just one problem—the upper crust is an old boys country club and nouveau riche programs need not apply. When it comes to scheduling, the big guys don’t want to date risk losing to these aspirational schools so that make excuses as to why they need to load up on cupcakes (and I still can’t fathom how these cupcakes aren’t killing their SOS but there’s probably something built into the formula at the behest of the cupcake eaters.)

We’ve sent the message through the ranks of D1 that there’s no point in trying. If you try, you become a threat, and if you’re a threat the. You get blackballed, that is until raiding amongst the P5 creates a need for additional programs.

I wish there was some way to cut out the cupcakes and reward the programs on the edge of “the club”.

Have the big 10 and sec split off and play with their own and each other’s balls.

Yes the leftovers will have to learn to live with less money, but it’s be better overall for the sport.
09-20-2022 08:51 AM
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puck swami Offline
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RE: The dying middle class of college athletics
(09-19-2022 11:19 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  For some have-nots the solution is to accept relative mediocrity in the big-time sports but invest enough resources to excel nationally in selected niche sports.

It’s been ten years since a power conference school won an NCAA men’s ice hockey championship. Eight of the past ten men’s volleyball championships have been won by non-power conference schools. Non-power conference schools still compete for lacrosse titles. In the most recently contested seasons, six of the top ten ranked teams in men’s water polo, five of the top ten ranked teams in beach volleyball, and four of the top ten ranked teams in women’s water polo have been from non-power conference schools.

Where TV and NIL money aren’t yet significant factors, the playing field is still even enough for some have-nots to compete at elite levels.

Great answer! The school I follow, The University of Denver, is the reigning national champion in hockey, and is top 20 in a number of other sports including men's soccer, women's gymnastics, skiing, men's lacrosse and women's lacrosse.

Do we miss football (the school had a D-I team until 1961)? Hard to know what would have happened had they kept it over the last 60 years, but given that DU was in financial trouble for much of the '70s and '80s, and Colorado is a relatively poor recruiting state for football, it's a fair assumption that the school would be laggard in football today and that the excellence in other sports probably would not be there, either, given how football stirs the drink at most schools...

As a Denver fan, I'd rather watch national-contending excellence in sports where the school has a realistic chance to win. Yes, our unique sports mix (and location) makes us something of an outlier in the national sports cosmos, but punching above our weight and besting numerous P5 schools in certain sports brings its own satisfactions, and more schools should be looking at investing in niche sports, where they can carve out their own style instead of just being cannon-fodder for other schools to beat-up....
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2022 10:12 AM by puck swami.)
09-20-2022 10:09 AM
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