(09-25-2022 11:16 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(09-25-2022 09:56 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-25-2022 08:42 AM)HuffyLegend Wrote:  Have any of you heard of a guy on Twitter who runs Message Board Geniuses? Mostly posts tweets from college football fan boards when things don't go well for their given school. "Fire everybody... Bring back so and so...X player is throwing the games", etc. Very over the top kind of stuff.
I don't mean this as an insult to men who have supported so well, for so long. But this was the first time since I've been on this board (I followed Creighton over), that I felt like folks were turning on the program in the fashion of MBG.
My perspective:
Recruiting is everything. You're not going to win many recruiting battles to Ypsi (the beautiful new center only gets you in top 5's of many recruits). What you get in recruiting are kids who chose the tough path, and therefor can be mentored into the best version of themselves. You are NOT getting enough to take a MAC title very easily. The wrong injuries, and your lack of depth is exposed.
Despite that difficult task, my outside opinion is that the overall product that has been created, the product that turns out impact men, who invest in the community and will be great family men, is the primary focus of the staff. They could get kids to help win games, but they don't just bring in anyone, because not just anyone wants to be the best version of themselves.
I read about the "ceiling of 6-6", as if it's a negative. That's incredibly hard to do at a school with the location, facilities, tradition, etc of EMU. What you do have is some stuff that wasn't there nine years ago. Bowls games, power 5 wins, graduation, a program of class, and kids you love to support.
In the words of Bobby McFerrin "don't worry, be happy."

Sorry, I can’t buy that when the school and donors are dumping tons of money into the program. If you’re happy with 6-6 every year, then more power to you. Clearly Wetherbee agrees with you, considering Creighton’s ridiculous contract. But the MAC isn’t very good, and hasn’t had a perennially dominant program in ages. As someone said above, every MAC West school has won the division since Creighton got here except for us. Are you saying it’s easy to recruit to Ball State?

We should expect more, and stop using the Ypsilanti excuse. Creighton has done a ton to turn the program around, but if he were a better game day coach, we would’ve won the MAC by now (and he’d probably be at Virginia or something). Instead, it’s the same story with a different chapter every season. We’ll probably win a game or two that we shouldn’t, and lose another game or two that we shouldn’t. EMU football. I wish we could dream a little bigger.

Sam, you’re 100% spot on! No coach should use Ypsilanti as an excuse. I’ve talked to a couple of basketball players and they told me Ypsilanti/Ann Arbor was the second biggest reason why they chose EMU. Ypsilanti depot town and Ann Arbor has many things to offer players. EMU is actually lucky to be adjacent to an incredible place like AA. Coach Heath using proximity to AA to his advantage. Sam also made a huge point about Ball State even winning the MAC. Our location is an EXCuSE if you claim it. The reality is the MAC would be an easy conference to establish a winning tradition because the coaches are very average in general. Typically the cycle is hire a great coach, build the program in 2-4 years, win the Conference and be promoted to a P5 job. Creighton has been here 9 years and he’s not in the great coach cycle plan. I love CC, support CC, but he needs to hire a new OC and DC.

Luckey I agree with everything you said except the new Offensive coordinator comment. I just checked the MAC website to look at team stats through 4 games and the good news is that we are #2 in the MAC with 31 points per game and we are 3 points away from being tied for 1st. The bad news is that we are #9 in the league giving up 38.5 points per game with Coach Neatherys defense.

(09-25-2022 11:36 AM)steve4840 Wrote:  

(09-25-2022 11:16 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(09-25-2022 09:56 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-25-2022 08:42 AM)HuffyLegend Wrote:  Have any of you heard of a guy on Twitter who runs Message Board Geniuses? Mostly posts tweets from college football fan boards when things don't go well for their given school. "Fire everybody... Bring back so and so...X player is throwing the games", etc. Very over the top kind of stuff.
I don't mean this as an insult to men who have supported so well, for so long. But this was the first time since I've been on this board (I followed Creighton over), that I felt like folks were turning on the program in the fashion of MBG.
My perspective:
Recruiting is everything. You're not going to win many recruiting battles to Ypsi (the beautiful new center only gets you in top 5's of many recruits). What you get in recruiting are kids who chose the tough path, and therefor can be mentored into the best version of themselves. You are NOT getting enough to take a MAC title very easily. The wrong injuries, and your lack of depth is exposed.
Despite that difficult task, my outside opinion is that the overall product that has been created, the product that turns out impact men, who invest in the community and will be great family men, is the primary focus of the staff. They could get kids to help win games, but they don't just bring in anyone, because not just anyone wants to be the best version of themselves.
I read about the "ceiling of 6-6", as if it's a negative. That's incredibly hard to do at a school with the location, facilities, tradition, etc of EMU. What you do have is some stuff that wasn't there nine years ago. Bowls games, power 5 wins, graduation, a program of class, and kids you love to support.
In the words of Bobby McFerrin "don't worry, be happy."

Sorry, I can’t buy that when the school and donors are dumping tons of money into the program. If you’re happy with 6-6 every year, then more power to you. Clearly Wetherbee agrees with you, considering Creighton’s ridiculous contract. But the MAC isn’t very good, and hasn’t had a perennially dominant program in ages. As someone said above, every MAC West school has won the division since Creighton got here except for us. Are you saying it’s easy to recruit to Ball State?

We should expect more, and stop using the Ypsilanti excuse. Creighton has done a ton to turn the program around, but if he were a better game day coach, we would’ve won the MAC by now (and he’d probably be at Virginia or something). Instead, it’s the same story with a different chapter every season. We’ll probably win a game or two that we shouldn’t, and lose another game or two that we shouldn’t. EMU football. I wish we could dream a little bigger.

Sam, you’re 100% spot on! No coach should use Ypsilanti as an excuse. I’ve talked to a couple of basketball players and they told me Ypsilanti/Ann Arbor was the second biggest reason why they chose EMU. Ypsilanti depot town and Ann Arbor has many things to offer players. EMU is actually lucky to be adjacent to an incredible place like AA. Coach Heath using proximity to AA to his advantage. Sam also made a huge point about Ball State even winning the MAC. Our location is an EXCuSE if you claim it. The reality is the MAC would be an easy conference to establish a winning tradition because the coaches are very average in general. Typically the cycle is hire a great coach, build the program in 2-4 years, win the Conference and be promoted to a P5 job. Creighton has been here 9 years and he’s not in the great coach cycle plan. I love CC, support CC, but he needs to hire a new OC and DC.

Luckey I agree with everything you said except the new Offensive coordinator comment. I just checked the MAC website to look at team stats through 4 games and the good news is that we are #2 in the MAC with 31 points per game and we are 3 points away from being tied for 1st. The bad news is that we are #9 in the league giving up 38.5 points per game with Coach Neatherys defense.

Steve,

The 31 points per games is fantastic but if we can not run the ball and control the TOP then eventually the defense will wear down and be scored upon. CC teams have been virtually last in rush offense; however, if we could develop a running game (ie like at Arizona) then the defense will improve by virtue of not being on the field. Ball control has been one thing CC has yet to achieve at this level. If you go back and look at each MAC champion, I’m sure you find the winner is at least top 4 in rushing performance.

I am siding with HuffyLegend on this one. Losing to Buffalo after the Arizona St win was not that surprising to me. Not for Eastern/Creighton, but mid major college football in general. Just look at Marshal beating Notre Dame then following that up with a loss to Bowling Green- a team that lost to Eastern Kentucky, which Eastern beat but only by a margin that was disagreeable to us on this forum.

I understand everyone’s desire for a MAC championship. And Sam raises good points, that with some better game time decisions, Chris Creighton would have already been at a P5 by now- though I consider this a blessing that kept him at EMU around.

This is the eighth year in a row EMU has had at least decent/enjoyable football. Creighton is bringing in EMU’s best recruiting class in their history for next year- it even rivaled that of some P5 schools. You can argue that Creighton has not yet peaked but rather the program is just a really slow upward trajectory with some ebb and flow. At least, we certainly have not seen any decline yet.

Why do mid majors pump so much money into football programs that are essentially doomed? Marketing pure and simple. Every time EMU gets televised on a ESPN’s MAC-tion, or a bowl game, or makes the news for beating Arizona St it is the best advertising money can buy. It generates sub-conscious name recognition which benefits everything from luring prospective students to improving the value of the diplomas for the alumni to maximizing available funding from the state. Sustaining that over 8 years of exposure is way more valuable than a flash in the pan MAC championship followed by a dismal period of trying to find another coach to be able to bring back that level of exposure.

On top of all that, I don’t recall a EMU coach ever- EVER- who has been more committed to instilling pride and spirit not only into the football program but to the university as a whole. MAC championship or not, Creighton has been a godsend to EMU.

(09-25-2022 01:01 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I am siding with HuffyLegend on this one. Losing to Buffalo after the Arizona St win was not that surprising to me. Not for Eastern/Creighton, but mid major college football in general. Just look at Marshal beating Notre Dame then following that up with a loss to Bowling Green- a team that lost to Eastern Kentucky, which Eastern beat but only by a margin that was disagreeable to us on this forum.

I understand everyone’s desire for a MAC championship. And Sam raises good points, that with some better game time decisions, Chris Creighton would have already been at a P5 by now- though I consider this a blessing that kept him at EMU around.

This is the eighth year in a row EMU has had at least decent/enjoyable football. Creighton is bringing in EMU’s best recruiting class in their history for next year- it even rivaled that of some P5 schools. You can argue that Creighton has not yet peaked but rather the program is just a really slow upward trajectory with some ebb and flow. At least, we certainly have not seen any decline yet.

Why do mid majors pump so much money into football programs that are essentially doomed? Marketing pure and simple. Every time EMU gets televised on a ESPN’s MAC-tion, or a bowl game, or makes the news for beating Arizona St it is the best advertising money can buy. It generates sub-conscious name recognition which benefits everything from luring prospective students to improving the value of the diplomas for the alumni to maximizing available funding from the state. Sustaining that over 8 years of exposure is way more valuable than a flash in the pan MAC championship followed by a dismal period of trying to find another coach to be able to bring back that level of exposure.

On top of all that, I don’t recall a EMU coach ever- EVER- who has been more committed to instilling pride and spirit not only into the football program but to the university as a whole. MAC championship or not, Creighton has been a godsend to EMU.

Ramy, I agree about CC's love of EMU. It is genuine. I just wish he could win more. But yeah, you have to go back to Harkema and Braun (in basketball) to find a guy who loves his players and the university as much as Creighton. For that, I give him a very long leash. He keeps me tuned in every single week.

(09-24-2022 06:03 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-24-2022 04:05 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(09-24-2022 03:53 PM)steve4840 Wrote:  

(09-24-2022 03:36 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  It all starts with recruiting and coaching! And, we're very average on both! Today showcased Creighton in every area! Embarrassing to give up 50 points at home to A 0-3 MAC team! F rating!

Glory Days, I agree it was bad coaching. I disagree on recruiting. Our recruiting has been good and I believe we have the talent. Our deficiencies lie in the lack of getting a pass rusher in the portal and Our scheme.

Our linebackers are better, we have an experienced secondary and a good o-line. I just don't understand the 4-2-5 and why CC allows it

The 4-2-5 was devised by Gary Patterson at TCU and worked splendidly until it reached the end of its life in 2017 for TCU. Patterson held on for a while but got fired last year.

I think I might have seen this movie before. An EMU men's coach clinging to an outdated defensive scheme and expecting improved results "next season".

Sorry, I know what you’re comparing this to, and I don’t want to start a completely different argument, but blaming Murphy’s zone for his downfall would be like blaming Austin Smith and the offense for today’s loss.

Sam your posts are well thought out and I enjoy them very much.

You are correct, our football defense is simply inadequate and has been now for FOUR seasons. Whether the problem is Neathery, recruiting, coaching emphasis, etc... what does it matter? Changes need to be made or else we will be stuck at 5 to 7 wins every year.

I know you loved Rob's 2-3 zone. It gave EMU an identity that was feared by competitors and was a massive W-L improvement over Boone-Ramsay regimes. Nevertheless, it was stale and thus had a VERY low .500 ceiling, similar to one Creighton has established with Neathery running his defense. That was my point.

(09-25-2022 03:00 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(09-25-2022 01:01 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I am siding with HuffyLegend on this one. Losing to Buffalo after the Arizona St win was not that surprising to me. Not for Eastern/Creighton, but mid major college football in general. Just look at Marshal beating Notre Dame then following that up with a loss to Bowling Green- a team that lost to Eastern Kentucky, which Eastern beat but only by a margin that was disagreeable to us on this forum.

I understand everyone’s desire for a MAC championship. And Sam raises good points, that with some better game time decisions, Chris Creighton would have already been at a P5 by now- though I consider this a blessing that kept him at EMU around.

This is the eighth year in a row EMU has had at least decent/enjoyable football. Creighton is bringing in EMU’s best recruiting class in their history for next year- it even rivaled that of some P5 schools. You can argue that Creighton has not yet peaked but rather the program is just a really slow upward trajectory with some ebb and flow. At least, we certainly have not seen any decline yet.

Why do mid majors pump so much money into football programs that are essentially doomed? Marketing pure and simple. Every time EMU gets televised on a ESPN’s MAC-tion, or a bowl game, or makes the news for beating Arizona St it is the best advertising money can buy. It generates sub-conscious name recognition which benefits everything from luring prospective students to improving the value of the diplomas for the alumni to maximizing available funding from the state. Sustaining that over 8 years of exposure is way more valuable than a flash in the pan MAC championship followed by a dismal period of trying to find another coach to be able to bring back that level of exposure.

On top of all that, I don’t recall a EMU coach ever- EVER- who has been more committed to instilling pride and spirit not only into the football program but to the university as a whole. MAC championship or not, Creighton has been a godsend to EMU.

Ramy, I agree about CC's love of EMU. It is genuine. I just wish he could win more. But yeah, you have to go back to Harkema and Braun (in basketball) to find a guy who loves his players and the university as much as Creighton. For that, I give him a very long leash. He keeps me tuned in every single week.

It's all good with me on your comments, they are well stated. I LOVE Creighton.

Unfortunately, when your defense has been found wanting for the prior FOUR seasons, as a CEO or Head Coach, you simply need to make changes. Fire Neathery, change recruiting emphasis, hire an OC and become more involved with the Defense, etc... Frankly, I don't care what avenue Creighton decides to take, but the current trend is unsustainable. Something needs to change.

(09-25-2022 09:56 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(09-25-2022 08:42 AM)HuffyLegend Wrote:  Have any of you heard of a guy on Twitter who runs Message Board Geniuses? Mostly posts tweets from college football fan boards when things don't go well for their given school. "Fire everybody... Bring back so and so...X player is throwing the games", etc. Very over the top kind of stuff.
I don't mean this as an insult to men who have supported so well, for so long. But this was the first time since I've been on this board (I followed Creighton over), that I felt like folks were turning on the program in the fashion of MBG.
My perspective:
Recruiting is everything. You're not going to win many recruiting battles to Ypsi (the beautiful new center only gets you in top 5's of many recruits). What you get in recruiting are kids who chose the tough path, and therefor can be mentored into the best version of themselves. You are NOT getting enough to take a MAC title very easily. The wrong injuries, and your lack of depth is exposed.
Despite that difficult task, my outside opinion is that the overall product that has been created, the product that turns out impact men, who invest in the community and will be great family men, is the primary focus of the staff. They could get kids to help win games, but they don't just bring in anyone, because not just anyone wants to be the best version of themselves.
I read about the "ceiling of 6-6", as if it's a negative. That's incredibly hard to do at a school with the location, facilities, tradition, etc of EMU. What you do have is some stuff that wasn't there nine years ago. Bowls games, power 5 wins, graduation, a program of class, and kids you love to support.
In the words of Bobby McFerrin "don't worry, be happy."

Sorry, I can’t buy that when the school and donors are dumping tons of money into the program. If you’re happy with 6-6 every year, then more power to you. Clearly Wetherbee agrees with you, considering Creighton’s ridiculous contract. But the MAC isn’t very good, and hasn’t had a perennially dominant program in ages. As someone said above, every MAC West school has won the division since Creighton got here except for us. Are you saying it’s easy to recruit to Ball State?

We should expect more, and stop using the Ypsilanti excuse. Creighton has done a ton to turn the program around, but if he were a better game day coach, we would’ve won the MAC by now (and he’d probably be at Virginia or something). Instead, it’s the same story with a different chapter every season. We’ll probably win a game or two that we shouldn’t, and lose another game or two that we shouldn’t. EMU football. I wish we could dream a little bigger.

Sam is my spirit animal. Or I am his. Lol.

(09-25-2022 01:01 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I am siding with HuffyLegend on this one. Losing to Buffalo after the Arizona St win was not that surprising to me. Not for Eastern/Creighton, but mid major college football in general. Just look at Marshal beating Notre Dame then following that up with a loss to Bowling Green- a team that lost to Eastern Kentucky, which Eastern beat but only by a margin that was disagreeable to us on this forum.

I understand everyone’s desire for a MAC championship. And Sam raises good points, that with some better game time decisions, Chris Creighton would have already been at a P5 by now- though I consider this a blessing that kept him at EMU around.

This is the eighth year in a row EMU has had at least decent/enjoyable football. Creighton is bringing in EMU’s best recruiting class in their history for next year- it even rivaled that of some P5 schools. You can argue that Creighton has not yet peaked but rather the program is just a really slow upward trajectory with some ebb and flow. At least, we certainly have not seen any decline yet.

Why do mid majors pump so much money into football programs that are essentially doomed? Marketing pure and simple. Every time EMU gets televised on a ESPN’s MAC-tion, or a bowl game, or makes the news for beating Arizona St it is the best advertising money can buy. It generates sub-conscious name recognition which benefits everything from luring prospective students to improving the value of the diplomas for the alumni to maximizing available funding from the state. Sustaining that over 8 years of exposure is way more valuable than a flash in the pan MAC championship followed by a dismal period of trying to find another coach to be able to bring back that level of exposure.

On top of all that, I don’t recall a EMU coach ever- EVER- who has been more committed to instilling pride and spirit not only into the football program but to the university as a whole. MAC championship or not, Creighton has been a godsend to EMU.

I agree with Huff and Ramy. This program was an embarrassment for decades - its not anymore. I never want to go back and I'm not sure new coaches wouldnt promise that wouldnt happen. Look at whats happened to Nebraska.

The Neathery show needs to come to an end. It is insane to think back to the first few years where we were worried he would get poached for a HC job. Now he is hanging on because CC refuses to make changes and fire someone. The only way someone leaves the coaching staff is if they get a better opportunity or step down themselves. He refuses to make in game decisions and continues to instruct our DBs to give 10 yard bend but don't break cushions. We all know what the definition of insanity is, we are witnessing it. When your defense gives up an average of 28 ppg you will never win consistently, the pressure that puts on an offense is to great.

I am so frustrated with this program. I demand better than 6-6 and a bowl loss.

I love the 4-2-5. But like any defensive schemei t needs to be well executed. We were executing it very well early on. Not now. There was a dip in talent without Crosby Harris Hoying Rachewel and others. That's part of the problem. If there is one area of weakness it's been the defensive line not stopping the run and putting pressure on the QB.

I love Chris Creighton and all he has done. But to coin a phrase Win something. A division title bowl game conference championship. This actually applies to a number of EMU coaches and their programs. Year in and year out some of these programs haven't won on the field in years. That's great if you are running a hobby farm but not so great when you run an athletic program.

its worth pointing out that we are being critical of a sport where no one on the team is even old enough to rent a car. ups and downs are to be expected.

(09-26-2022 07:26 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  its worth pointing out that we are being critical of a sport where no one on the team is even old enough to rent a car. ups and downs are to be expected.

Dan, I'm not sure how renting a car is related. I don't think any one on this thread has called out a player. We generally do a very good job of not calling out athletes. The overall talent and depth on this roster is far greater than it was say 7-8 years ago. I think the overwhelming theme is the coaching philosophy.

What I am continually reading is that most everyone here loves CC and what he has done. The frustration is what measures are being put in place getting us to a MAC championship caliber. In year 9, these are valid questions. Letting up 50 points at home is alarmingly bad and allowing scores on 9 straight possessions is worthy of criticism.

(09-25-2022 09:01 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(09-25-2022 08:42 AM)HuffyLegend Wrote:  Have any of you heard of a guy on Twitter who runs Message Board Geniuses? Mostly posts tweets from college football fan boards when things don't go well for their given school. "Fire everybody... Bring back so and so...X player is throwing the games", etc. Very over the top kind of stuff.
I don't mean this as an insult to men who have supported so well, for so long. But this was the first time since I've been on this board (I followed Creighton over), that I felt like folks were turning on the program in the fashion of MBG.
My perspective:
Recruiting is everything. You're not going to win many recruiting battles to Ypsi (the beautiful new center only gets you in top 5's of many recruits). What you get in recruiting are kids who chose the tough path, and therefor can be mentored into the best version of themselves. You are NOT getting enough to take a MAC title very easily. The wrong injuries, and your lack of depth is exposed.
Despite that difficult task, my outside opinion is that the overall product that has been created, the product that turns out impact men, who invest in the community and will be great family men, is the primary focus of the staff. They could get kids to help win games, but they don't just bring in anyone, because not just anyone wants to be the best version of themselves.
I read about the "ceiling of 6-6", as if it's a negative. That's incredibly hard to do at a school with the location, facilities, tradition, etc of EMU. What you do have is some stuff that wasn't there nine years ago. Bowls games, power 5 wins, graduation, a program of class, and kids you love to support.
In the words of Bobby McFerrin "don't worry, be happy."

I can remember went we went 0-32 back late 90s early 2000s I went to 139 straight home games only saw 25 wins 1995-2018.

The curse of superfan. The winning % of all games he has attended in all sports has got to be historically low. Prior to him, things were going pretty well for EMU athletics. Just saying...

https://twitter.com/CBSSportsNet/status/...M1EUFZtRgg

(09-26-2022 07:02 AM)emu79 Wrote:  I love the 4-2-5. But like any defensive schemei t needs to be well executed. We were executing it very well early on. Not now. There was a dip in talent without Crosby Harris Hoying Rachewel and others. That's part of the problem. If there is one area of weakness it's been the defensive line not stopping the run and putting pressure on the QB.

The 4-2-5 is basically called the "prevent" or "nickel" defense in the NFL where it is utilized on obvious passing situations on third down or when your opponent is behind and has little time to score. It concedes rushing yardage, generates a moderate pass rush and produces few turnovers, but it does keep the other team from getting the "home run" play. It is indeed designed to produce a "safe" result. It lets Buffalo run between the tackles, throw those sideline passes and not have to punt until the game outcome was determined.

That defensive alignment worked wonderfully when you had POC, Harris and Maxx rushing the passer, Rachwal shooting the gap to stop the 4th down run and Hoying tackling like a linebacker from the safety position. We don't have that personnel now and our strategy needs to change accordingly. The past three years and this one is evidence proof of that.