(09-20-2022 09:06 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 09:54 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 09:12 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  What is dumb is that programs can become full FBS members in something like their fourth or fifth year of existence.

Question: Has that ever really happened, or is it just a "red herring?" - - for example, a school that has no varsity football program of any kind (not even D3), but was able to become a full FBS member in only 4 or 5 years?

If so, can you give any examples?

Or, are you objecting to the ability of an FCS school to make the transition to full FBS conference membership in 4-5 years?

If so, what about a school (such as James Madison), which is only in its first full season, and is not yet eligible for playing for their conference championship, yet has already beaten (FBS) MTSU by a score of 44-7?

What would be "dumb" about the rules permitting them to play as full FBS members of a FBS conference?

. . . . . . . . .

The only argument I could see for it being "dumb" would be if there was a flood of, say D3 teams, suddenly playing games vs. P5 teams, and being absolutely destroyed in completely uncompetitive games, with huge numbers of players sustaining tragic, lifelong injuries (broken necks, etc.).

But that's not what we're seeing.

.

Yes, it's happened with a number of teams. Reverse sort by Joined FBS column: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...S_programs

Here's the list of moveups since 1987 (Football Started/FBS Joined/FCS Titles)
James Madison 1972 2022 (2)
Liberty 1973 2018
Coastal Carolina 2003 2017
Charlotte 2013 2015*
Appalachian St. 1928 2014 (3)
Georgia So 1924 2014
Old Dominion 2009 2014*
Georgia State 2010 2013*
South Alabama 2009 2012*
Texas State 1904 2012
UMass 1879 2012 (1)
UTSA 2011 2012*
Western Kent. 1913 2009 (1)
Florida Atlantic 2001 2006*
FIU Panthers 2002 2006*
Troy 1909 2002
South Florida 1997 2001*
UConn 1896 2000
Buffalo 1894 1999
Middle Tenn 1911 1999
UAB 1991 1999
Marshall 1895 1997 (2)
Boise State 1933 1996 (1)
UCF Knights 1979 1996
North Texas 1913 1995
La-Monroe 1951 1994 (1)
Arkansas State 1911 1992
Nevada 1896 1992
Louisiana Tech 1901 1989
Akron 1891 1987

You'll see 8 schools with less than 5 years of existence before moving up. And it's a mixed bag - it looks like USF and UTSA obviously had the resources to compete right away but S Alab, FAU, FIU, Ga St, Charlotte - these teams really just HAD to move up without any prior success in FCS or longer duration of program?

Personally, for the teams with sustained success in FCS (J Madison, App St, Ga Southern, Boise St, NDSU, Montana) there is no issue with moving up since they've proven all they can do at the lower level. But for teams that have joined and barely contributed, this is when the blocking proposals arise.

The counter-argument would emphasize the fact that most/all of those FCS schools were invited to join G5 conferences, and suggest that if a G5 conference is willing to gamble on such schools, what gives the NCAA the right to stop them from doing so, as long as they meet the existing FBS criteria?

Notably, the NCAA was so feckless that they couldn't even block Liberty from transitioning to FBS, despite the fact that Liberty wasn't invited to join a FBS conference.

Seems like all the NCAA could do would be to tighten up the FBS criteria (e.g., require higher academic standards or more varsity sports, etc.), but they can't do that without making life hard for the existing conferences. As Capt. Kirk would say, "Options, Mr. Spock?"

(09-20-2022 05:50 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(09-20-2022 09:06 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 09:54 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 09:12 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  What is dumb is that programs can become full FBS members in something like their fourth or fifth year of existence.

Question: Has that ever really happened, or is it just a "red herring?" - - for example, a school that has no varsity football program of any kind (not even D3), but was able to become a full FBS member in only 4 or 5 years?

If so, can you give any examples?

Or, are you objecting to the ability of an FCS school to make the transition to full FBS conference membership in 4-5 years?

If so, what about a school (such as James Madison), which is only in its first full season, and is not yet eligible for playing for their conference championship, yet has already beaten (FBS) MTSU by a score of 44-7?

What would be "dumb" about the rules permitting them to play as full FBS members of a FBS conference?

. . . . . . . . .

The only argument I could see for it being "dumb" would be if there was a flood of, say D3 teams, suddenly playing games vs. P5 teams, and being absolutely destroyed in completely uncompetitive games, with huge numbers of players sustaining tragic, lifelong injuries (broken necks, etc.).

But that's not what we're seeing.

.

Yes, it's happened with a number of teams. Reverse sort by Joined FBS column: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...S_programs

Here's the list of moveups since 1987 (Football Started/FBS Joined/FCS Titles)
James Madison 1972 2022 (2)
Liberty 1973 2018
Coastal Carolina 2003 2017
Charlotte 2013 2015*
Appalachian St. 1928 2014 (3)
Georgia So 1924 2014
Old Dominion 2009 2014*
Georgia State 2010 2013*
South Alabama 2009 2012*
Texas State 1904 2012
UMass 1879 2012 (1)
UTSA 2011 2012*
Western Kent. 1913 2009 (1)
Florida Atlantic 2001 2006*
FIU Panthers 2002 2006*
Troy 1909 2002
South Florida 1997 2001*
UConn 1896 2000
Buffalo 1894 1999
Middle Tenn 1911 1999
UAB 1991 1999
Marshall 1895 1997 (2)
Boise State 1933 1996 (1)
UCF Knights 1979 1996
North Texas 1913 1995
La-Monroe 1951 1994 (1)
Arkansas State 1911 1992
Nevada 1896 1992
Louisiana Tech 1901 1989
Akron 1891 1987

You'll see 8 schools with less than 5 years of existence before moving up. And it's a mixed bag - it looks like USF and UTSA obviously had the resources to compete right away but S Alab, FAU, FIU, Ga St, Charlotte - these teams really just HAD to move up without any prior success in FCS or longer duration of program?

Personally, for the teams with sustained success in FCS (J Madison, App St, Ga Southern, Boise St, NDSU, Montana) there is no issue with moving up since they've proven all they can do at the lower level. But for teams that have joined and barely contributed, this is when the blocking proposals arise.

The counter-argument would emphasize the fact that most/all of those FCS schools were invited to join G5 conferences, and suggest that if a G5 conference is willing to gamble on such schools, what gives the NCAA the right to stop them from doing so, as long as they meet the existing FBS criteria?

Notably, the NCAA was so feckless that they couldn't even block Liberty from transitioning to FBS, despite the fact that Liberty wasn't invited to join a FBS conference.

Seems like all the NCAA could do would be to tighten up the FBS criteria (e.g., require higher academic standards or more varsity sports, etc.), but they can't do that without making life hard for the existing conferences. As Capt. Kirk would say, "Options, Mr. Spock?"

Why should it matter if a school has a golf team?

Why not just organize competition on a per-sport basis? Have pro/rel based on on-the-field performance.