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YOwl Ming Offline
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Post: #41
RE: This Week's Uniforms
One reason to go with multiple units is to make alumni want to buy merch.

Especially since Artemis is a long term theme built for Rice, why aren't isn't it our top seller (ref. Astros Space City)?
09-18-2022 11:11 AM
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markbrindley Offline
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Post: #42
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 08:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 08:34 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  That's just pure B.S. The chicken owl has never been used as a logo by Rice sports teams. Rather, it's used on merchandizing. The OE "R" remains the most prominent and visible (especially to outsiders) logo, branding and trademark for Rice athletics. The "wings" have a legacy only in football; not the other sports.

But again that's the problem. The logos used for merchandizing should be the logos worn by the teams. There needs to be consistency throughout. You don't need the block modern "RICE OWLS" when you have the OE "R," which is more distinctive and more consistent with the academic image that Rice projects. And you don't need the chicken owl when you have the wings.

The wings' legacy is primarily football, but it extends to the hand symbol, much as the TexasU longhorn hand symbol is consistent with the longhorn logo.

Whatever the specifics, what is needed is one or two consistent logos that are used throughout. You can do whatever with the uniforms if you have consistent trademarks that tie them together.

As noted, the OER is the predominant brand for Rice athletics and appears in almost all of our sports teams apparel in some way or another. For a couple of games a year, it may be very small or even non-existent as we bring out one of our previous brands in one way or another. That does not effect our efforts to establish the brand for the most part.

In regards to the O at Oregon. Only recently has it become predominant in all branding. Originally it was the wings and multiple uniform combinations. With OSU, ASU, and Louisville, they alternate different forms of their multiple logos with different color combinations. There logos are everything from historical to exaggerated to new caricatures. And, in some cases like this week's Louisville team, they went black on black on the helmet. You could barely distinguish that a logo even existed.

While I appreciate all of the opinions on sticking with one uniform combination to establish a logo, that is just you expressing your opinion. Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.
09-18-2022 11:27 AM
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Post: #43
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  Branding professionals

Cowboys?
09-18-2022 11:55 AM
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Post: #44
RE: This Week's Uniforms
What did you think of the new Sammy?
09-18-2022 06:07 PM
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Post: #45
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 06:07 PM)Grungy Wrote:  What did you think of the new Sammy?

The dragon?
09-18-2022 06:27 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  While I appreciate all of the opinions on sticking with one uniform combination to establish a logo, that is just you expressing your opinion. Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.

Just to set the record straight, I am not saying stick to one uniform combination to establish a logo, so please do not put those words in my mouth. I have a personal preference for a consistent look--we know on sight who Texas U, Bama, Penn State, and the like are. And many of the change uniforms are driven by marketers to sell logo merchandise.

But Oregon can establish a brand with multiple uniforms because they have two constants--the "O" and the wings--that make the brand consistent across varying uniforms.

That's were I would like to see Rice go. Multiple uniforms is okay as long as there are constants to build the brand. And the OE "R" and the wings would be my personal favorite constants. Football, I like silver/gray helmets ("Old Gray Bonnet") with blue wings, jerseys blue with white trim or white with blue trim, with OE "R" on top of shoulders, and silver/gray pants. For baseball, the Yankee pinstripes with the OE "R" and the Cardinal bat with owls ("wings") on it for home uniforms with the OE "R" on the caps.

What I absolutely do not care for is the modern font "RICE OWLS" and the chicken head that JK paid God knows ow much to get some consultant to foist upon him.

But do whatever the hell you want. At my age I'm not likely to be around forever, and I've kind of lost interest in the program since moving, so I'm really not the target market that the program needs to attract.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2022 07:16 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-18-2022 07:16 PM
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Post: #47
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 07:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  While I appreciate all of the opinions on sticking with one uniform combination to establish a logo, that is just you expressing your opinion. Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.

Just to set the record straight, I am not saying stick to one uniform combination to establish a logo, so please do not put those words in my mouth. I have a personal preference for a consistent look--we know on sight who Texas U, Bama, Penn State, and the like are. And many of the change uniforms are driven by marketers to sell logo merchandise.

But Oregon can establish a brand with multiple uniforms because they have two constants--the "O" and the wings--that make the brand consistent across varying uniforms.

That's were I would like to see Rice go. Multiple uniforms is okay as long as there are constants to build the brand. And the OE "R" and the wings would be my personal favorite constants. Football, I like silver/gray helmets ("Old Gray Bonnet") with blue wings, jerseys blue with white trim or white with blue trim, with OE "R" on top of shoulders, and silver/gray pants. For baseball, the Yankee pinstripes with the OE "R" and the Cardinal bat with owls ("wings") on it for home uniforms with the OE "R" on the caps.

What I absolutely do not care for is the modern font "RICE OWLS" and the chicken head that JK paid God knows ow much to get some consultant to foist upon him.

But do whatever the hell you want. At my age I'm not likely to be around forever, and I've kind of lost interest in the program since moving, so I'm really not the target market that the program needs to attract.

And for the umteenth time-- we paid absolutely nothing for the rebranding of the merchandise. Addidas picked up the tab as part of their contract with us. Second, the chicken head does not appear on ANY Rice athletic uniforms. It's was a supplemental logo (not a brand) created for the kiddies and young adults, and by all accounts, they love it. (I don't, but it's not intended for me.) I stick with the OE R on all my Rice gear.
09-18-2022 07:42 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #48
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 11:11 AM)YOwl Ming Wrote:  One reason to go with multiple units is to make alumni want to buy merch.

Especially since Artemis is a long term theme built for Rice, why aren't isn't it our top seller (ref. Astros Space City)?

You're right. It's all about selling merchandise.
09-18-2022 07:56 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 07:42 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  And for the umteenth time-- we paid absolutely nothing for the rebranding of the merchandise. Addidas picked up the tab as part of their contract with us. Second, the chicken head does not appear on ANY Rice athletic uniforms. It's was a supplemental logo (not a brand) created for the kiddies and young adults, and by all accounts, they love it. (I don't, but it's not intended for me.) I stick with the OE R on all my Rice gear.

And for the umpteenth time, so what?

If your goal is to sell merchandise, change as often as you like. If your goal is to establish a brand, you need some consistency. Of course, one place you need consistency in order to build an athletic brand is consistent winning (unless perhaps you are the Chicago Cubs), and that has so far escaped Rice, at least in the money sports.
09-18-2022 09:03 PM
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Post: #50
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 07:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  While I appreciate all of the opinions on sticking with one uniform combination to establish a logo, that is just you expressing your opinion. Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.

Just to set the record straight, I am not saying stick to one uniform combination to establish a logo, so please do not put those words in my mouth. I have a personal preference for a consistent look--we know on sight who Texas U, Bama, Penn State, and the like are. And many of the change uniforms are driven by marketers to sell logo merchandise.

But Oregon can establish a brand with multiple uniforms because they have two constants--the "O" and the wings--that make the brand consistent across varying uniforms.

That's were I would like to see Rice go. Multiple uniforms is okay as long as there are constants to build the brand. And the OE "R" and the wings would be my personal favorite constants. Football, I like silver/gray helmets ("Old Gray Bonnet") with blue wings, jerseys blue with white trim or white with blue trim, with OE "R" on top of shoulders, and silver/gray pants. For baseball, the Yankee pinstripes with the OE "R" and the Cardinal bat with owls ("wings") on it for home uniforms with the OE "R" on the caps.

What I absolutely do not care for is the modern font "RICE OWLS" and the chicken head that JK paid God knows ow much to get some consultant to foist upon him.

But do whatever the hell you want. At my age I'm not likely to be around forever, and I've kind of lost interest in the program since moving, so I'm really not the target market that the program needs to attract.

Current uniforms don't have any trim on them, do they? Very modern, sleek looking, particularly with the modern font. Doesn't really match the OER on the helmet, which is not modern looking.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2022 09:28 PM by Middle Ages.)
09-18-2022 09:25 PM
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Post: #51
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.

How many combinations are going on at TexasU? aTm? OU? Bama? USC? Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State?
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2022 09:31 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-18-2022 09:31 PM
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RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 06:27 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 06:07 PM)Grungy Wrote:  What did you think of the new Sammy?

The dragon?

I'm not aware of a dragon.
09-18-2022 11:11 PM
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Post: #53
This Week's Uniforms
(09-18-2022 09:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.

How many combinations are going on at TexasU? aTm? OU? Bama? USC? Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State?


A&M has quite a few over the past few years…white, maroon, grey, and black, with matching, white, or maroon helmets. Logos have been the standard aTm or aTm/state outline. Stripes on the helmets have come and gone.

Texas released an alternate black one, but I don’t believe they’ve worn it in a game.

Michigan has worn white, blue and yellow and combinations of each.

Ohio Stare has worn black and all scarlet at least once each.

Bama and Penn State have not worn an alternate uniform that I’m aware of.


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09-19-2022 12:28 AM
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Post: #54
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-19-2022 12:28 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 09:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.

How many combinations are going on at TexasU? aTm? OU? Bama? USC? Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State?


A&M has quite a few over the past few years…white, maroon, grey, and black, with matching, white, or maroon helmets. Logos have been the standard aTm or aTm/state outline. Stripes on the helmets have come and gone.

Texas released an alternate black one, but I don’t believe they’ve worn it in a game.

Michigan has worn white, blue and yellow and combinations of each.

Ohio Stare has worn black and all scarlet at least once each.

Bama and Penn State have not worn an alternate uniform that I’m aware of.


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I was thinking the same thing about A&M - my recollection is that they've had quite a few uniform combinations over the past few years. I think the one consistent item has been the aTm.

I don't mind the special uniforms that commemorate history - and based on the public praise and publicity we have received for them, they're great ideas.
09-19-2022 07:38 AM
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Post: #55
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-19-2022 07:38 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I was thinking the same thing about A&M - my recollection is that they've had quite a few uniform combinations over the past few years. I think the one consistent item has been the aTm.

And that's my point. That's their trademark. They don't change that. They vary the uniform but don't change the trademark. Rice has constantly changed the trademark.

Quote:I don't mind the special uniforms that commemorate history - and based on the public praise and publicity we have received for them, they're great ideas.

Special uniforms are fine. I'm not a huge fan, but they can serve a purpose. Constantly changing trademarks prevents developing a brand. Of course, part of the problem is that a new regime comes in, looks at history and says, "We need to change that." So they change the logo.

Penn State hasn't changed unis since Rip Engle, and except for names on backs of jerseys, Bama hasn't changed since Bryant and Texas hasn't really changed since Royal, all of which go back to the 1950s. Of course, throughout the majority of that time, they were the dominant programs in their regions, so why change anything? It's the non-dominant aspirational programs that are constantly changing, as if trying to find the magic uni.

Rice has gone from Jess's all-blue home unis with numbers on the helmets (which had to be miserable in the Houston heat, although he played night games until mid-October), to Bo Hagan's R inside a football (G's work better than R's for that), to Peterson's and Conover's flying owls (the helmet worn last Saturday), to Homer Rice's script "Rice" (he literally said he liked having his own name on the unis), to Ray Alborn who brought back the blue helmets with numbers, to Watson Brown's funky star emblem, to Jerry Berndt's two-color "R" (idea brought from Penn), to Fred snd Ken's wings, to Todd's stupid looking owls, to the OE "R" that Bailiff adopted. To my way of thinking, the two best logos of all those were the wings and the OE "R." So I would do the wings on the helmet and the OE "R" on top of the shoulder pads (and I really like the OE "R" inside the Texas outline if it fits), and let other sports use the OE "R' and incorporate the wings where they work. With those constants, then go wild with uniform changes if you want.

One color that really seems to be popular, and apparently attractive to recruits, is black. With blue and grey as colors, what about really dark grey (as in black) pants (and jersey at home) with blue numerals outlined in white (black for road) and otherwise white (at home, blue or black on the road) trim. Another thought, given the Houston heat, should Rice adopt the LSU and Dallas Cowboys practice of white jerseys at home?
09-19-2022 08:20 AM
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Grungy Online
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Post: #56
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-19-2022 08:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One color that really seems to be popular, and apparently attractive to recruits, is black. With blue and grey as colors, what about really dark grey (as in black) pants (and jersey at home) with blue numerals outlined in white (black for road) and otherwise white (at home, blue or black on the road) trim. Another thought, given the Houston heat, should Rice adopt the LSU and Dallas Cowboys practice of white jerseys at home?

Insuring that the visiting team is wearing the hotter uniform on beautiful (sunny Houston) days for outdoor football?
Sounds good to me.
If we play only night games in September, like this year, it won't make as much of a difference, but every little bit helps.
That depends on winning the negotiations with They Who Are In Charge of College Football - the TV networks.
09-19-2022 09:09 AM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #57
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-19-2022 08:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  ...

One color that really seems to be popular, and apparently attractive to recruits, is black. With blue and grey as colors, what about really dark grey (as in black) pants (and jersey at home) with blue numerals outlined in white (black for road) and otherwise white (at home, blue or black on the road) trim. Another thought, given the Houston heat, should Rice adopt the LSU and Dallas Cowboys practice of white jerseys at home?

One trend that I truly hate is the black uniforms. When I turn on a game and have to try to figure out who the team is without their team colors I tend to lose interest. If you're blue, don't wear black. If you're red, don't wear black. If you're green, don't wear black.
09-19-2022 09:32 AM
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Post: #58
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-19-2022 12:28 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 09:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.

How many combinations are going on at TexasU? aTm? OU? Bama? USC? Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State?


A&M has quite a few over the past few years…white, maroon, grey, and black, with matching, white, or maroon helmets. Logos have been the standard aTm or aTm/state outline. Stripes on the helmets have come and gone.

Texas released an alternate black one, but I don’t believe they’ve worn it in a game.

Michigan has worn white, blue and yellow and combinations of each.

Ohio Stare has worn black and all scarlet at least once each.

Bama and Penn State have not worn an alternate uniform that I’m aware of.


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Yeah, Mark.... respectfully....

The aTm and horns and TT for tech and UH for UH etc have all remained essentially unchanged for decades.... This is their BRAND. The color or shading or stripes or what have you is not the brand.

I like the OE-R as a brand. The color combinations, the shading and shadowing, stripes, depictions of Sammy, even the font on RICE or OWLS does not even have to be consistent, unless we're making THAT our brand. I've seen 'Aggies' in script, block, vertical, slanted, curved...but aTm has ALWAYS been (with only MINOR changes) their 'brand'.

You can do all these other things including all of the various depictions of Sammy, wings etc... just keep the R.

ANd it can be subtle... like having an OE-R on the shield at the v neck, or on the center back of say a Track or Tennis or golf shirt... or on the cap... or the socks.... or the gloves (though I prefer it look like wings) or knee pads or shoes...
09-19-2022 09:37 AM
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Post: #59
RE: This Week's Uniforms
(09-19-2022 09:32 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(09-19-2022 08:20 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  ...
One color that really seems to be popular, and apparently attractive to recruits, is black. With blue and grey as colors, what about really dark grey (as in black) pants (and jersey at home) with blue numerals outlined in white (black for road) and otherwise white (at home, blue or black on the road) trim. Another thought, given the Houston heat, should Rice adopt the LSU and Dallas Cowboys practice of white jerseys at home?
One trend that I truly hate is the black uniforms. When I turn on a game and have to try to figure out who the team is without their team colors I tend to lose interest. If you're blue, don't wear black. If you're red, don't wear black. If you're green, don't wear black.

Rice's black could officially be "dark grey."
09-19-2022 09:40 AM
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Post: #60
This Week's Uniforms
(09-19-2022 09:37 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(09-19-2022 12:28 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 09:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-18-2022 11:27 AM)markbrindley Wrote:  Branding professionals in college sports obviously disagree with you based on the number of combinations going on at top programs that are successfully driving merchandise sales and brand recognition.

How many combinations are going on at TexasU? aTm? OU? Bama? USC? Ohio State? Michigan? Penn State?


A&M has quite a few over the past few years…white, maroon, grey, and black, with matching, white, or maroon helmets. Logos have been the standard aTm or aTm/state outline. Stripes on the helmets have come and gone.

Texas released an alternate black one, but I don’t believe they’ve worn it in a game.

Michigan has worn white, blue and yellow and combinations of each.

Ohio Stare has worn black and all scarlet at least once each.

Bama and Penn State have not worn an alternate uniform that I’m aware of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, Mark.... respectfully....

The aTm and horns and TT for tech and UH for UH etc have all remained essentially unchanged for decades.... This is their BRAND. The color or shading or stripes or what have you is not the brand.

I like the OE-R as a brand. The color combinations, the shading and shadowing, stripes, depictions of Sammy, even the font on RICE or OWLS does not even have to be consistent, unless we're making THAT our brand. I've seen 'Aggies' in script, block, vertical, slanted, curved...but aTm has ALWAYS been (with only MINOR changes) their 'brand'.

You can do all these other things including all of the various depictions of Sammy, wings etc... just keep the R.

ANd it can be subtle... like having an OE-R on the shield at the v neck, or on the center back of say a Track or Tennis or golf shirt... or on the cap... or the socks.... or the gloves (though I prefer it look like wings) or knee pads or shoes...


I agree with you. I’m not for going with a completely different brand every game. I’d like to see the OER included in every combination of uniform we wear.

At this point we’ve gone with an alternate uniform and a throwback. Depending on how the rest of the season goes, we’re likely in line with many other teams around the country and return to established branding for the rest of the season. I don’t know that for sure.

My point is mainly that the complaints about branding on this board are generally all about nothing when taken in context of entire seasons. The OER us our primary brand and is now being used in most of our branding. Could it be better, yes. Are a few alternate uniforms per year an issue, absolutely not because they bring positive attention when the product on the field has not necessarily done it on its own. Should the OER be more prominent in the alternate uniforms, yes, no question.

As you’ve said many times, we need to do unconventional things to attract fans. Alternate uniforms on occasion is just one piece of that equation and per groups like Uniswag, we’ve executed well on that front. Lots of positive traffic on the internets about Rice football based on the last 2 weeks. It’s not the same as winning, but we are reaching audiences who have never cared about Rice Football in the past and getting at least a little positive attention from them.


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09-19-2022 10:33 AM
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