Trafalgar Group Poll on the issue.

https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/n...oans-0909/

Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Forgiving $10,000 worth of student loan debt does nothing to fix the problem. In fact, it encourages even more irresponsible fiscal behavior. The federal government needs to get out of the business of backing these loans, and let the private sector decide the loan worthiness of certain degrees. The issue will fix itself quite rapidly.

(09-12-2022 12:23 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Forgiving $10,000 worth of student loan debt does nothing to fix the problem. In fact, it encourages even more irresponsible fiscal behavior. The federal government needs to get out of the business of backing these loans, and let the private sector decide the loan worthiness of certain degrees. The issue will fix itself quite rapidly.

I agree. I think Biden tried to split the baby and ended up with the worst of both worlds.

The private sector isn't very good at social goods though. I don't totally discount the concept, but you have to realize that much of academia is knowledge for knowledge's sake and not everything in our society has to have an immediate return on investment.

Besides, the most useless degree out there isn't the relatively rare gender studies degree, its the kid who has a "general business" degree which is to say they know enough to be dangerous about finance, accounting, and marketing, but not enough to be useful at any of them.

To confront this, we must reform the financing of higher education entirely. Loans must be dischargeable in bankruptcy. The Federal government must step in and place caps on prices. And, for much of a generation, some amount of debt should be forgiven or negotiated now--because it will be forgiven 20 years from now anyways.

(09-12-2022 12:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:23 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Forgiving $10,000 worth of student loan debt does nothing to fix the problem. In fact, it encourages even more irresponsible fiscal behavior. The federal government needs to get out of the business of backing these loans, and let the private sector decide the loan worthiness of certain degrees. The issue will fix itself quite rapidly.

I agree. I think Biden tried to split the baby and ended up with the worst of both worlds.

The private sector isn't very good at social goods though. I don't totally discount the concept, but you have to realize that much of academia is knowledge for knowledge's sake and not everything in our society has to have an immediate return on investment.

Besides, the most useless degree out there isn't the relatively rare gender studies degree, its the kid who has a "general business" degree which is to say they know enough to be dangerous about finance, accounting, and marketing, but not enough to be useful at any of them.

To confront this, we must reform the financing of higher education entirely. Loans must be dischargeable in bankruptcy. The Federal government must step in and place caps on prices. And, for much of a generation, some amount of debt should be forgiven or negotiated now--because it will be forgiven 20 years from now anyways.

I've always thought the solution to the student loan crisis was to allow the debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy. That way their is a price to pay for the borrower (bad credit for years) and for the lender (loss of principal for making bad loans). But it allows people to get out from under onerous debt.

(09-12-2022 12:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:23 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Forgiving $10,000 worth of student loan debt does nothing to fix the problem. In fact, it encourages even more irresponsible fiscal behavior. The federal government needs to get out of the business of backing these loans, and let the private sector decide the loan worthiness of certain degrees. The issue will fix itself quite rapidly.

I agree. I think Biden tried to split the baby and ended up with the worst of both worlds.

The private sector isn't very good at social goods though. I don't totally discount the concept, but you have to realize that much of academia is knowledge for knowledge's sake and not everything in our society has to have an immediate return on investment.

Besides, the most useless degree out there isn't the relatively rare gender studies degree, its the kid who has a "general business" degree which is to say they know enough to be dangerous about finance, accounting, and marketing, but not enough to be useful at any of them.

To confront this, we must reform the financing of higher education entirely. Loans must be dischargeable in bankruptcy. The Federal government must step in and place caps on prices. And, for much of a generation, some amount of debt should be forgiven or negotiated now--because it will be forgiven 20 years from now anyways.

The vast majority of college students are going to college to increase their earning potential. Pursuing knowledge via a degree is a luxury of the rich. Vast amounts of knowledge can been attained for very low cost at a local library or via the internet.

I definitely agree that college loans should be able to be discharged via bankruptcy. This will again force the lenders to be more cautious about lending money for worthless degrees or to students who have no interest in actually graduating. Both things will drive down college costs.

Price caps almost never work, so I would not endorse that approach.

Devil's in the details.

Age of those surveyed:
65+ - 26.6%
45-64 - 36.5%

That's 63.1% of older adults that more than likely don't have any loans.

18-24 - 7.7%
25-34 - 14.2%

So the survey only consisted of 21.9% of likely voters who likely still have loans. That's the target audience for this measure for the most part.

In those demo's the measure pretty much broke even.

18-24 - 49.5% more likely, 50.5% less likely.
25-34 - 50.6% more likely, 49.5% less likely. (Totals shown with their rounding)
https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-con...t-0909.pdf

(09-12-2022 02:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Devil's in the details.

Age of those surveyed:
65+ - 26.6%
45-64 - 36.5%

That's 63.1% of older adults that more than likely don't have any loans.

18-24 - 7.7%
25-34 - 14.2%

So the survey only consisted of 21.9% of likely voters who likely still have loans. That's the target audience for this measure for the most part.

In those demo's the measure pretty much broke even.

18-24 - 49.5% more likely, 50.5% less likely.
25-34 - 50.6% more likely, 49.5% less likely. (Totals shown with their rounding)
https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-con...t-0909.pdf

Well, old people do turn out to vote at a much higher rate than young people.

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Then pass a damn law, the real way, and demand the schools pay the debts.

This isn’t “forgiveness” this is shifting the debt from presumably college educated people to the hairdressers and car mechanics out there. What the heck did they do wrong to be saddled with their neighbors kids college loans?

If the kids can’t or won’t pay them, go after the parents. Not complete strangers.

(09-12-2022 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 02:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Devil's in the details.

Age of those surveyed:
65+ - 26.6%
45-64 - 36.5%

That's 63.1% of older adults that more than likely don't have any loans.

18-24 - 7.7%
25-34 - 14.2%

So the survey only consisted of 21.9% of likely voters who likely still have loans. That's the target audience for this measure for the most part.

In those demo's the measure pretty much broke even.

18-24 - 49.5% more likely, 50.5% less likely.
25-34 - 50.6% more likely, 49.5% less likely. (Totals shown with their rounding)
https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-con...t-0909.pdf

Well, old people do turn out to vote at a much higher rate than young people.

Well, clearly. One of the reasons they likely are doing this...to drive turnout. And in case you're not aware, there's been a WHOLE lot of women registering since the Roe ruling.

(09-12-2022 12:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I agree. I think Biden tried to split the baby and ended up with the worst of both worlds.

That about sums up the Biden administration

(09-12-2022 02:31 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Then pass a damn law, the real way, and demand the schools pay the debts.

This isn’t “forgiveness” this is shifting the debt from presumably college educated people to the hairdressers and car mechanics out there. What the heck did they do wrong to be saddled with their neighbors kids college loans?

If the kids can’t or won’t pay them, go after the parents. Not complete strangers.

I think a law addressing the issue would be a good thing.

But, Republicans seen intent on ignoring the problem and instead inserting mean-spirited garbage attacking the idea of forgiveness.

(09-12-2022 02:31 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Then pass a damn law, the real way, and demand the schools pay the debts.

This isn’t “forgiveness” this is shifting the debt from presumably college educated people to the hairdressers and car mechanics out there. What the heck did they do wrong to be saddled with their neighbors kids college loans?

If the kids can’t or won’t pay them, go after the parents. Not complete strangers.

You know this argument doesn't hold water, right? People who have loans they're paying back ARE taxpayers too...I'm sure most of them will have already paid 10k in taxes since college. And that's not even factoring in the interest they have already paid or will pay on the remainder of their loans.

(09-12-2022 02:32 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 02:22 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 02:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Devil's in the details.

Age of those surveyed:
65+ - 26.6%
45-64 - 36.5%

That's 63.1% of older adults that more than likely don't have any loans.

18-24 - 7.7%
25-34 - 14.2%

So the survey only consisted of 21.9% of likely voters who likely still have loans. That's the target audience for this measure for the most part.

In those demo's the measure pretty much broke even.

18-24 - 49.5% more likely, 50.5% less likely.
25-34 - 50.6% more likely, 49.5% less likely. (Totals shown with their rounding)
https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-con...t-0909.pdf

Well, old people do turn out to vote at a much higher rate than young people.

Well, clearly. One of the reasons they likely are doing this...to drive turnout. And in case you're not aware, there's been a WHOLE lot of women registering since the Roe ruling.

I’m honestly interested to see how much of a driver of turnout that is.

I think it’s actually a major issue for the GOP. Hell, I’m a Republican and I’m pro-choice and feel that the GOP dancing on the grave of a serious societal safety valve is a bad look.

(09-12-2022 02:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 02:31 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 11:58 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Meh, student loans are a catastrophe in waiting.

The GOP does itself a disservice with much of their mean-spirited attacks on it.

A world where kids cant strike out and create their own companies, own small businesses, etc., because they are paying $1000 to the man is a less creative world and more importantly, a more controlled world.

People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Then pass a damn law, the real way, and demand the schools pay the debts.

This isn’t “forgiveness” this is shifting the debt from presumably college educated people to the hairdressers and car mechanics out there. What the heck did they do wrong to be saddled with their neighbors kids college loans?

If the kids can’t or won’t pay them, go after the parents. Not complete strangers.

You know this argument doesn't hold water, right? People who have loans they're paying back ARE taxpayers too...I'm sure most of them will have already paid 10k in taxes since college.

That and the majority will be forgiven in 20 years anyways. Instead of making any money in that time period some private loan servicing companies are going to soak up those payments.

(09-12-2022 02:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 02:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 02:31 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 12:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  People that have paid off their own student loans DO have a bone to pick.

Picking winners and losers is what this is. Trolling for votes from those with little life experience.

There is no good reason not to confront a looming catastrophe.

Student loans are going to be driving even more inequality out there. They are perhaps one of the top reasons a whole generation will not be as productive or innovative in a relative sense as the generations before them.

Saddling a generation, like I said right or wrong, is not good policy.

Then pass a damn law, the real way, and demand the schools pay the debts.

This isn’t “forgiveness” this is shifting the debt from presumably college educated people to the hairdressers and car mechanics out there. What the heck did they do wrong to be saddled with their neighbors kids college loans?

If the kids can’t or won’t pay them, go after the parents. Not complete strangers.

You know this argument doesn't hold water, right? People who have loans they're paying back ARE taxpayers too...I'm sure most of them will have already paid 10k in taxes since college.

That and the majority will be forgiven in 20 years anyways. Instead of making any money in that time period some private loan servicing companies are going to soak up those payments.

Correct. My daughter is set to graduate next spring. Her federal loans only make up around 20% of her total loans.

(09-12-2022 02:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That and the majority will be forgiven in 20 years anyways. Instead of making any money in that time period some private loan servicing companies are going to soak up those payments.

Most people don't know that

(09-12-2022 02:53 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 02:36 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That and the majority will be forgiven in 20 years anyways. Instead of making any money in that time period some private loan servicing companies are going to soak up those payments.

Most people don't know that

I’d be all for an offer in compromise setup.

The way it is now is just nasty from top to bottom and the GOP, who you would hope would be the good guys, are making it worse or introducing mean-spirited garbage like the dick from Florida to outlaw forgiveness.

The whole thing is garbage. We will all pay for this ultimately, much more than just writing it all off now and overhauling the whole system.