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The Victory Bell is dead – and the Big East killed it

The Miami Student
By Michael Vestey Staff Writer
September 28, 2021 | 9:00am EDT

We have a silly misconception about college athletics – especially college football.

We walk into our local college football stadium every week under this delusion. We watch our teams struggle for years or have great success, reaching the heights of New Years’ Six bowls or the lows of winless seasons.

All of this operates under our mistaken belief that the game of college football is inherently about, well, football.

The Big East wasn’t an especially stable conference after they decided to become a football conference. Thanks to tensions between the primarily basketball schools which formed the foundation of the conference and the newer, primarily football schools – Virginia Tech, Miami (the one in Florida), and Boston College all ended up jumping ship to the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) in 2005.

Those departures left the Big East with a hole they needed to fill – as they were under the minimum of 8 schools needed for a Bowl Championship Series (BCS, the college football postseason system at the time) automatic bid – so they began recruiting.

In 2005, the University of Cincinnati Bearcats were an alright team in the Conference USA – not quite good enough to challenge the top 25, but good enough to challenge powerhouse TCU for conference championships.

They’d just broken a 3-game Ben Roethlisberger-driven RedHawk win streak in the rivalry with a 45-26 win in Cincinnati in 2004, and finished behind only #6 Louisville in the Conference USA standings that season. And then the Big East came knocking.

College football isn’t about football. At the end of the day, it’s more about money than anything else.

In 2005, the Big East commanded around $15 million per year in media rights revenues from football alone. In the same year, Conference USA signed a five-year media rights deal – for a total of $21.9 million. In comparison, the Mid-American Conference (MAC) of which Miami has been a member since 1947 had a media rights deal worth approximately $600,000 per year.

In 2008, a new eight-year deal was signed with ESPN, netting the conference roughly $1 million per year. Assuming the even distribution of media revenues between the schools (general practice, but The Student was unable to find financial records from the time) Cincinnati would be receiving just under $2 million per year, almost 20 times what Miami would receive under the 2008 rights deal.

And money brings success.

In the years up until 1995, when Cincinnati made its move from being an Independent to the Conference USA, Miami led the Victory Bell series, 53-39-7. In the 10 years Cincinnati was in the Conference USA, the series was tied, 5-5.

Since Cincinnati’s move to the Big East in 2005, and the later rebranding of Big East football as the American Athletic Conference (AAC), which it remains as today, Cincinnati has won 15 out of 16 games – the only loss coming in 2005. Out of those 15 games, only four were decided by one score or less. Nine games were decided by three or more scores.

The AAC’s media rights deal currently averages $83 million per year – $7 million per school. The MAC receives $8 million per year – $600,000 per school. It’s not a surprise that Cincinnati keeps winning, making 11 times the revenue from media rights alone.

And it’s not getting better for the RedHawks. On Sept. 10, the Big 12 voted unanimously to accept Brigham Young University, Cincinnati, Houston, and University of Central Florida to the conference, beginning in 2024 and in part to replace Oklahoma and Texas, both departing for the Southeastern Conference.

The Big 12’s current media deal runs out in 2025, and we still don’t know how valuable the next one is going to be. Though it’s likely to be slightly smaller than the current deal, worth $200 million per year.

The move to a power conference is only going to push the Bearcats closer to being a title contender than a small-conference mid-major, and make their gap between the RedHawks ever greater.

The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

Unless, of course, there’s still enough money in it.

(09-12-2022 10:38 AM)doss2 Wrote:  The Victory Bell is dead – and the Big East killed it

The Miami Student
By Michael Vestey Staff Writer
September 28, 2021 | 9:00am EDT

We have a silly misconception about college athletics – especially college football.

We walk into our local college football stadium every week under this delusion. We watch our teams struggle for years or have great success, reaching the heights of New Years’ Six bowls or the lows of winless seasons.

All of this operates under our mistaken belief that the game of college football is inherently about, well, football.

The Big East wasn’t an especially stable conference after they decided to become a football conference. Thanks to tensions between the primarily basketball schools which formed the foundation of the conference and the newer, primarily football schools – Virginia Tech, Miami (the one in Florida), and Boston College all ended up jumping ship to the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) in 2005.

Those departures left the Big East with a hole they needed to fill – as they were under the minimum of 8 schools needed for a Bowl Championship Series (BCS, the college football postseason system at the time) automatic bid – so they began recruiting.

In 2005, the University of Cincinnati Bearcats were an alright team in the Conference USA – not quite good enough to challenge the top 25, but good enough to challenge powerhouse TCU for conference championships.

They’d just broken a 3-game Ben Roethlisberger-driven RedHawk win streak in the rivalry with a 45-26 win in Cincinnati in 2004, and finished behind only #6 Louisville in the Conference USA standings that season. And then the Big East came knocking.

College football isn’t about football. At the end of the day, it’s more about money than anything else.

In 2005, the Big East commanded around $15 million per year in media rights revenues from football alone. In the same year, Conference USA signed a five-year media rights deal – for a total of $21.9 million. In comparison, the Mid-American Conference (MAC) of which Miami has been a member since 1947 had a media rights deal worth approximately $600,000 per year.

In 2008, a new eight-year deal was signed with ESPN, netting the conference roughly $1 million per year. Assuming the even distribution of media revenues between the schools (general practice, but The Student was unable to find financial records from the time) Cincinnati would be receiving just under $2 million per year, almost 20 times what Miami would receive under the 2008 rights deal.

And money brings success.

In the years up until 1995, when Cincinnati made its move from being an Independent to the Conference USA, Miami led the Victory Bell series, 53-39-7. In the 10 years Cincinnati was in the Conference USA, the series was tied, 5-5.

Since Cincinnati’s move to the Big East in 2005, and the later rebranding of Big East football as the American Athletic Conference (AAC), which it remains as today, Cincinnati has won 15 out of 16 games – the only loss coming in 2005. Out of those 15 games, only four were decided by one score or less. Nine games were decided by three or more scores.

The AAC’s media rights deal currently averages $83 million per year – $7 million per school. The MAC receives $8 million per year – $600,000 per school. It’s not a surprise that Cincinnati keeps winning, making 11 times the revenue from media rights alone.

And it’s not getting better for the RedHawks. On Sept. 10, the Big 12 voted unanimously to accept Brigham Young University, Cincinnati, Houston, and University of Central Florida to the conference, beginning in 2024 and in part to replace Oklahoma and Texas, both departing for the Southeastern Conference.

The Big 12’s current media deal runs out in 2025, and we still don’t know how valuable the next one is going to be. Though it’s likely to be slightly smaller than the current deal, worth $200 million per year.

The move to a power conference is only going to push the Bearcats closer to being a title contender than a small-conference mid-major, and make their gap between the RedHawks ever greater.

The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

Unless, of course, there’s still enough money in it.

I'm going to go ahead and repost my Miami rant from a couple of years ago.

Their obsession with trumpeting that 35 year old book has long crossed over into self-parody. It doesn't mean anything. It was the completely subjective opinion of one guy, and even then, Miami and Vermont were thrown onto the list to make it unique and gin up some controversy. Does anyone think that Cal or Virginia even talk about it anymore much less make it the defining event in their existence? Does anyone think that Miami has ever been a better university than schools like Washington, Wisconsin, Illinois or Minnesota that were left off the list? I'll leave OSU off that latter list because they were just coming out of their forced open admission period that was the very basis for Miami's temporary "public ivy" glory. Look at what's happened since. OSU dominates Miami in rankings and admissions selectivity, so it's pretty clear that the mid 60s to the mid 80s were an abnormal deviation from the normal pecking order in Ohio.

Besides "Ivy League" has always meant more than simply academic excellence. It's also a reference to social cache and elitism as there are schools (Chicago, MIT an Cal Tech notably) that are clearly better than half the Ivy League but have never been seen as having the social cache for the wealthy and elite as have Dartmouth or Brown. And that social and economic elitism is everything a public university should not be striving to replicate, yet Miami craves it like a crackhead craves the pipe.

Miami is a garbage school that's been sitting up in that cornfield smelling their own farts and rereading their holy ancient public ivy text over and over for the last 35 years. It's a self-aggrandizing safety school for conservative preppy kids who want to join a frat and major in business while being surrounded exclusively by other conservative preppy kids who join frats and major in business. It's full of kids who didn't get into Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan or Ohio State and then try to use that yellowed, old book to convince themselves and everyone around them that Miami is actually equal to or better than the schools that rejected them. I may not like everything about Ohio State or everything they do, but I respect them as a university and feel that they provide Ohio with a solid, first class flagship research university, and would like to see a more constructive partnership between it and UC. I have no such respect for Miami nor do I see any benefit to UC to have anything to do with it. I think it's a joke of a school, a poor man's Pepperdine.

Rant over.

Can we just pin this response?

(09-12-2022 12:40 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I'm going to go ahead and repost my Miami rant from a couple of years ago.

Their obsession with trumpeting that 35 year old book has long crossed over into self-parody. It doesn't mean anything. It was the completely subjective opinion of one guy, and even then, Miami and Vermont were thrown onto the list to make it unique and gin up some controversy. Does anyone think that Cal or Virginia even talk about it anymore much less make it the defining event in their existence? Does anyone think that Miami has ever been a better university than schools like Washington, Wisconsin, Illinois or Minnesota that were left off the list? I'll leave OSU off that latter list because they were just coming out of their forced open admission period that was the very basis for Miami's temporary "public ivy" glory. Look at what's happened since. OSU dominates Miami in rankings and admissions selectivity, so it's pretty clear that the mid 60s to the mid 80s were an abnormal deviation from the normal pecking order in Ohio.

Besides "Ivy League" has always meant more than simply academic excellence. It's also a reference to social cache and elitism as there are schools (Chicago, MIT an Cal Tech notably) that are clearly better than half the Ivy League but have never been seen as having the social cache for the wealthy and elite as have Dartmouth or Brown. And that social and economic elitism is everything a public university should not be striving to replicate, yet Miami craves it like a crackhead craves the pipe.

Miami is a garbage school that's been sitting up in that cornfield smelling their own farts and rereading their holy ancient public ivy text over and over for the last 35 years. It's a self-aggrandizing safety school for conservative preppy kids who want to join a frat and major in business while being surrounded exclusively by other conservative preppy kids who join frats and major in business. It's full of kids who didn't get into Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan or Ohio State and then try to use that yellowed, old book to convince themselves and everyone around them that Miami is actually equal to or better than the schools that rejected them. I may not like everything about Ohio State or everything they do, but I respect them as a university and feel that they provide Ohio with a solid, first class flagship research university, and would like to see a more constructive partnership between it and UC. I have no such respect for Miami nor do I see any benefit to UC to have anything to do with it. I think it's a joke of a school, a poor man's Pepperdine.

Rant over.

(09-12-2022 12:40 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I'm going to go ahead and repost my Miami rant from a couple of years ago.

Their obsession with trumpeting that 35 year old book has long crossed over into self-parody. It doesn't mean anything. It was the completely subjective opinion of one guy, and even then, Miami and Vermont were thrown onto the list to make it unique and gin up some controversy. Does anyone think that Cal or Virginia even talk about it anymore much less make it the defining event in their existence? Does anyone think that Miami has ever been a better university than schools like Washington, Wisconsin, Illinois or Minnesota that were left off the list? I'll leave OSU off that latter list because they were just coming out of their forced open admission period that was the very basis for Miami's temporary "public ivy" glory. Look at what's happened since. OSU dominates Miami in rankings and admissions selectivity, so it's pretty clear that the mid 60s to the mid 80s were an abnormal deviation from the normal pecking order in Ohio.

Besides "Ivy League" has always meant more than simply academic excellence. It's also a reference to social cache and elitism as there are schools (Chicago, MIT an Cal Tech notably) that are clearly better than half the Ivy League but have never been seen as having the social cache for the wealthy and elite as have Dartmouth or Brown. And that social and economic elitism is everything a public university should not be striving to replicate, yet Miami craves it like a crackhead craves the pipe.

Miami is a garbage school that's been sitting up in that cornfield smelling their own farts and rereading their holy ancient public ivy text over and over for the last 35 years. It's a self-aggrandizing safety school for conservative preppy kids who want to join a frat and major in business while being surrounded exclusively by other conservative preppy kids who join frats and major in business. It's full of kids who didn't get into Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan or Ohio State and then try to use that yellowed, old book to convince themselves and everyone around them that Miami is actually equal to or better than the schools that rejected them. I may not like everything about Ohio State or everything they do, but I respect them as a university and feel that they provide Ohio with a solid, first class flagship research university, and would like to see a more constructive partnership between it and UC. I have no such respect for Miami nor do I see any benefit to UC to have anything to do with it. I think it's a joke of a school, a poor man's Pepperdine.

Rant over.

Thanks to Chuck Martin we are going for the lead. I still cannot believe in Fick's first year Martin gave use the game!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va2u3gfi3zE

(09-12-2022 12:40 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  I'm going to go ahead and repost my Miami rant from a couple of years ago.

Their obsession with trumpeting that 35 year old book has long crossed over into self-parody. It doesn't mean anything. It was the completely subjective opinion of one guy, and even then, Miami and Vermont were thrown onto the list to make it unique and gin up some controversy. Does anyone think that Cal or Virginia even talk about it anymore much less make it the defining event in their existence? Does anyone think that Miami has ever been a better university than schools like Washington, Wisconsin, Illinois or Minnesota that were left off the list? I'll leave OSU off that latter list because they were just coming out of their forced open admission period that was the very basis for Miami's temporary "public ivy" glory. Look at what's happened since. OSU dominates Miami in rankings and admissions selectivity, so it's pretty clear that the mid 60s to the mid 80s were an abnormal deviation from the normal pecking order in Ohio.

Besides "Ivy League" has always meant more than simply academic excellence. It's also a reference to social cache and elitism as there are schools (Chicago, MIT an Cal Tech notably) that are clearly better than half the Ivy League but have never been seen as having the social cache for the wealthy and elite as have Dartmouth or Brown. And that social and economic elitism is everything a public university should not be striving to replicate, yet Miami craves it like a crackhead craves the pipe.

Miami is a garbage school that's been sitting up in that cornfield smelling their own farts and rereading their holy ancient public ivy text over and over for the last 35 years. It's a self-aggrandizing safety school for conservative preppy kids who want to join a frat and major in business while being surrounded exclusively by other conservative preppy kids who join frats and major in business. It's full of kids who didn't get into Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan or Ohio State and then try to use that yellowed, old book to convince themselves and everyone around them that Miami is actually equal to or better than the schools that rejected them. I may not like everything about Ohio State or everything they do, but I respect them as a university and feel that they provide Ohio with a solid, first class flagship research university, and would like to see a more constructive partnership between it and UC. I have no such respect for Miami nor do I see any benefit to UC to have anything to do with it. I think it's a joke of a school, a poor man's Pepperdine.

Rant over.

Bravo, well done and worth re-reading, regularly. .

(09-12-2022 10:38 AM)doss2 Wrote:  The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

I would be happy for it to end BEFORE the 2029 season. The game just doesn't bring any juice. It seems folks my age and older [50+] are the only ones that have any memories of this game as a "rivalry." I could accept scheduling MyAMUH as part of a rotation of Ohio schools - similar to what Ohio State does annually.

(09-12-2022 05:34 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 10:38 AM)doss2 Wrote:  The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

I would be happy for it to end BEFORE the 2029 season. The game just doesn't bring any juice. It seems folks my age and older [50+] are the only ones that have any memories of this game as a "rivalry." I could accept scheduling MyAMUH as part of a rotation of Ohio schools - similar to what Ohio State does annually.

Don't we get a pretty favorable deal with the price and scheduling? If so I'd rather just keep playing them. It's not like BGSU or Akron are going to bring any more juice

(09-12-2022 05:34 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 10:38 AM)doss2 Wrote:  The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

I would be happy for it to end BEFORE the 2029 season. The game just doesn't bring any juice. It seems folks my age and older [50+] are the only ones that have any memories of this game as a "rivalry." I could accept scheduling MyAMUH as part of a rotation of Ohio schools - similar to what Ohio State does annually.

I am well over 50 but it is time to move on or all games are at Nip as it was for many years.

(09-12-2022 06:34 PM)Lurkercat Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 05:34 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 10:38 AM)doss2 Wrote:  The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

I would be happy for it to end BEFORE the 2029 season. The game just doesn't bring any juice. It seems folks my age and older [50+] are the only ones that have any memories of this game as a "rivalry." I could accept scheduling MyAMUH as part of a rotation of Ohio schools - similar to what Ohio State does annually.

Don't we get a pretty favorable deal with the price and scheduling? If so I'd rather just keep playing them. It's not like BGSU or Akron are going to bring any more juice

Yes, both Fickell and AD also like it. The 3rd key is it’s financially beneficial to us. This series isn’t ending time soon until at least one of those changes.

(09-12-2022 06:34 PM)Lurkercat Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 05:34 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 10:38 AM)doss2 Wrote:  The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

I would be happy for it to end BEFORE the 2029 season. The game just doesn't bring any juice. It seems folks my age and older [50+] are the only ones that have any memories of this game as a "rivalry." I could accept scheduling MyAMUH as part of a rotation of Ohio schools - similar to what Ohio State does annually.

Don't we get a pretty favorable deal with the price and scheduling? If so I'd rather just keep playing them. It's not like BGSU or Akron are going to bring any more juice

I agree. It's hard to suggest it's a rivalry anymore. Even the unthinkable upset on Saturday wouldn't energize a rivalry with football programs on such different trajectories these days.

But you got to the heart of the matter. What opponent is more appealing for the one "G5" game in the Big 12 pre-conference protocol? Probably not another MAC school. Other than Ohio, none have ever really been rivals. Want another turn with one of the three T's? Temple, Tulane, and Tulsa don't exactly set hearts ablaze in Nippert. Army or Navy? Who wants to prepare for the triple option for one game a year.

Really, I can't think of any G5 that will fill as many seats at Paycor as what we'll see on Saturday, so why not alternate the Redhawks between Paycor and Nippert and essentially get an extra "home" game every other year?

(09-12-2022 06:34 PM)Lurkercat Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 05:34 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 10:38 AM)doss2 Wrote:  The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

I would be happy for it to end BEFORE the 2029 season. The game just doesn't bring any juice. It seems folks my age and older [50+] are the only ones that have any memories of this game as a "rivalry." I could accept scheduling MyAMUH as part of a rotation of Ohio schools - similar to what Ohio State does annually.

Don't we get a pretty favorable deal with the price and scheduling? If so I'd rather just keep playing them. It's not like BGSU or Akron are going to bring any more juice

Price? Not sure what you are referring to but yes we have rotational scheduling advantage in terms of PBS and the Nip. I meant "juice" in terms of it is billed as one of the oldest rivalries except folks outside of SE Ohio don't know about it or care. I would rather play some different schools from an interest and spread our brand standpoint to other parts of Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky. So other MAC or CUSA schools in a rotation. I know the game with Ohio U a few years back was pretty good and we travel to Athens in 2026. We do play WKY home and home in 2025 and 2026.

(09-12-2022 06:50 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 06:34 PM)Lurkercat Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 05:34 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 10:38 AM)doss2 Wrote:  The Victory Bell is the oldest current non-conference rivalry in the country, having first been played in 1888, and is scheduled to run through 2029. If Cincinnati keeps up its current win streak until then, it might be time to retire this game as a yearly event.

I would be happy for it to end BEFORE the 2029 season. The game just doesn't bring any juice. It seems folks my age and older [50+] are the only ones that have any memories of this game as a "rivalry." I could accept scheduling MyAMUH as part of a rotation of Ohio schools - similar to what Ohio State does annually.

Don't we get a pretty favorable deal with the price and scheduling? If so I'd rather just keep playing them. It's not like BGSU or Akron are going to bring any more juice

Yes, both Fickell and AD also like it. The 3rd key is it’s financially beneficial to us. This series isn’t ending time soon until at least one of those changes.

How is it financially beneficial to us? Please substantiate with facts not vague opinions.

We shouldn’t play an FCS and Miami. One or the other.

(09-12-2022 07:05 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  We shouldn’t play an FCS and Miami. One or the other.

This is the point, particularly as we embark on a 9-game conference schedule. The challenge, and this is a good part of why Miami is still on the schedule, is making sure we have at least 6 home games per year. That should be the minimum, with 7 the norm. It's hard to achieve that during the years when we'll only have 4 conference games at Nippert.

Honestly, i would love to try and get a "winnable" p5 team on the schedule. Home and homes with most ACC teams, 2/3rds of the b10, and some low tier SEC teams. ideally, pitt, cuse, rutgers, nebraska, illini, iu, purdue, northwestern, kentucky, louisville, BC, nc state, wake, duke, vandy, GA Tech, Va tech, uva, maryland, minny, and iowa are all winnable games, imo. if we're able to re/establish a rivalry game with more local programs (iu, purdue, illini, NW, Vandy, Pitt and Louisville) would be my first choice. We get two tune up G5s and a p5 before conference play.

(09-12-2022 07:05 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  We shouldn’t play an FCS and Miami. One or the other.

It’s going to be both every year. Big XII’s non-conference scheduling mandate is one FCS, one G5, and a power 5 to go with 9 conference games.

The UC administration likes the Miami arrangement according to what has been reported by BCJ.

I don’t understand the issues fans have with this scheduling philosophy. There are going to be enough challenging games in conference and finding other MAC level schools to give UC what Miami gives UC is close to impossible. Right now Miami is budget friendly rivalry game that UC fans can attend every year and has been a UC win since the Big East days.

(09-12-2022 07:10 PM)eroc Wrote:  Honestly, i would love to try and get a "winnable" p5 team on the schedule. Home and homes with most ACC teams, 2/3rds of the b10, and some low tier SEC teams. ideally, pitt, cuse, rutgers, nebraska, illini, iu, purdue, northwestern, kentucky, louisville, BC, nc state, wake, duke, vandy, GA Tech, Va tech, uva, maryland, minny, and iowa are all winnable games, imo. if we're able to re/establish a rivalry game with more local programs (iu, purdue, illini, NW, Vandy, Pitt and Louisville) would be my first choice. We get two tune up G5s and a p5 before conference play.

I agree but we've be doing that already. Purdue, UCLA, Indiana, Boston College, Nebraska, Pitt are some of the recent/future ones. If we're keeping the "Miami-O" level school in our scheduling I would rather rotate in other schools on that same level. That's my desire anyway.