(11-06-2023 03:08 PM)Ourland Wrote:  There are many coaches who have made more than enough money in coaching, and who can't get hired again by a big school, but they still have the fire inside to continue. Remember Ken Hatfield?

And the reason he can't win at A&M is called the "SEC," and the only schools that really matter in the SEC are Georgia, Florida, Alabama, LSU, and Tennessee. Add Texas to that bunch next season.

This.

I'd say it this way though.... If you get fired from A&M (much like Hat from HIS job) it is often because you failed to meet some VERY high expectations.

Hatfield went 9-3 in his last year at Clemson, won the Peach Bowl and finished with a top 25 ranking. Two of his other 3 years he was also ranked... his first he was in the top 10. 5-6 his 3rd year was a 'killer'.

If someone like Jimbo is fired from A&M, I'd think the odds that another 'big time' program picks him up are slim... He is in for a career rebuild... and it depends if he is going to go be an OC for a big boy or is he going to be a HC somewhere else... and if HC, why not us? He would surely look at this team as having SOME talent... and at our portal potential as being VERY high, relative to our competition.... and of course if he wins here... and odds are he would... he can write his next BIG check. His contract at A&M will pay him handsomely anyway.

Jimbo has a good enough name and has personally recruited enough p5 guys that I think he could mine the portal well... and of course he knows lots of assistants from over the years... Frankly, I think some of the guys riding the bench at A&M would fit very well on our team... and our school. They've perhaps learned enough humility to not be 100% confident of their pro prospects, but still close enough to it that they want the shot.... and you've got no shot from the sideline.

He knows the Texas recruiting inroads like the back of his hand, and has connections with many potential assistants. It also may be that he's at an age where he has no desire to return to the big time, and we keep him until he retires. It would be a 'statement' hire by Rice if we could pull it off, and would communicate 'commitment' to the rest of the nation. Anyway, what do I know?

(11-06-2023 04:07 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 03:08 PM)Ourland Wrote:  There are many coaches who have made more than enough money in coaching, and who can't get hired again by a big school, but they still have the fire inside to continue. Remember Ken Hatfield?

And the reason he can't win at A&M is called the "SEC," and the only schools that really matter in the SEC are Georgia, Florida, Alabama, LSU, and Tennessee. Add Texas to that bunch next season.

Since Fisher is apparently such a ridiculous suggestion on my part, who would you go after?

I like Owl #s suggestions in this post, especially Blake Baker, the Mizzou DC. From the Houston area, played at Tulane and has good early career experience at Texas/Arkansas/Louisiana schools.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-979225-post-19...id19225130

That's an intriguing possibility. Good candidate

https://mutigers.com/sports/football/ros...0at%20LSU.

(11-06-2023 04:57 PM)Ourland Wrote:  He knows the Texas recruiting inroads like the back of his hand, and has connections with many potential assistants. It also may be that he's at an age where he has no desire to return to the big time, and we keep him until he retires. It would be a 'statement' hire by Rice if we could pull it off, and would communicate 'commitment' to the rest of the nation. Anyway, what do I know?

I agree... It doesn't have to be Jimbo... but if you're going to successfully mine the portal for guys who are out of position or buried on p5 rosters (because we aren't yet in a position to poach a lot of starters from many other g5 programs) then you need someone who has recruited all of those guys... who is a 'name' they would recognize and respect.

The calculus for NIL is different. I don't claim to have it down pat,... not remotely.... but it seems to me that our niche here is obvious. Find guys like Daniels who don't fit the mold of a program with so much pull that they don't need to adapt to their talent... or guys who are getting 1/4 of the reps at a p5... or maybe just special teams... or maybe out of position who are better than what we have or can recruit out of high school. Hire a guy like Jimbo and have him recruit guys like Jimbo.... guys who are good, but underperforming 'top 10' in the SEC expectations.

Again... think if we had poached some p5 OL.... We're likely 8-1 and would probably finish 11-1 with a good loss to Texas... and while maybe not in the playoffs, we're certainly playing a BIG team in a bowl.... g5 teams with gaudy records against 'nobody' and a win over top 25 teams (even if they are also over-rated) and good losses to top 10 are almost always over-rated... so maybe we're playing a team that finished JUST OUT of the playoff.... and their guys are all thinking about transferring to a playoff team OR about the pros... and sometimes all you need is that chance

Right, get anyone with talent who would rather play and get a great education at Rice, than get paid but never touch the field at a football farm. We're on the same page.

No way Jimbo is coming to Rice if the Aggies fire him.

If Saban doesn’t make the CFP, maybe he’ll come to Rice?

I need some of whatever y’all are drinking.

(11-06-2023 07:25 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  No way Jimbo is coming to Rice if the Aggies fire him.

If Saban doesn’t make the CFP, maybe he’ll come to Rice?

I need some of whatever y’all are drinking.

Sounds like you just had some. I like it.

(11-06-2023 07:25 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  No way Jimbo is coming to Rice if the Aggies fire him.

If Saban doesn’t make the CFP, maybe he’ll come to Rice?

I need some of whatever y’all are drinking.

I said the same about Hatfield.

I understand your position, but listen to the pitch.... and Jimbo is an example... not a person. I don't know if he personally fits... but generally he is the sort of guy I'd be after,

No 'contending' p5 team is going to hire Jimbo if he isn't successful at A&M. Maybe as OC or some 'special' position... but not HC. The only schools that would hire him would be schools even more on the 'outside looking in' than A&M... and how do you even DEFINE success there? Finishing 5th instead of 8th in the SEC?

Alternatively, Rice is/was literally a few plays and players away from 11-1 and a shot at a BEATABLE 'name' team in a bowl... and his skills and name (different, but similar in some ways to Sanders at Colorado) could bring in those guys. I mean, he certainly wouldn't likely recruit any WORSE from the portal than Bloomgren...and he 'almost' got us there.

The portal for guys like Daniels could be a GOLD mine for Rice with a coach like Jimbo... Former 5 star guys who maybe got injured and passed over while on the mend.... or who aren't getting the playing time to showcase their talents... who now might value the diploma or graduate degree and get to play most of their games against 3 and 4 star guys... not 5 star guys.... and we'd really only be asking them to BEAT teams that aren't solidly in the top 20....

and if he did that, he'd be writing himself back into the equation for 'the big boys'... OR, he could just be happy and content here with less pressure.

(11-07-2023 11:13 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 07:25 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  No way Jimbo is coming to Rice if the Aggies fire him.

If Saban doesn’t make the CFP, maybe he’ll come to Rice?

I need some of whatever y’all are drinking.

I said the same about Hatfield.

I understand your position, but listen to the pitch.... and Jimbo is an example... not a person. I don't know if he personally fits... but generally he is the sort of guy I'd be after,

No 'contending' p5 team is going to hire Jimbo if he isn't successful at A&M. Maybe as OC or some 'special' position... but not HC. The only schools that would hire him would be schools even more on the 'outside looking in' than A&M... and how do you even DEFINE success there? Finishing 5th instead of 8th in the SEC?

Alternatively, Rice is/was literally a few plays and players away from 11-1 and a shot at a BEATABLE 'name' team in a bowl... and his skills and name (different, but similar in some ways to Sanders at Colorado) could bring in those guys. I mean, he certainly wouldn't likely recruit any WORSE from the portal than Bloomgren...and he 'almost' got us there.

The portal for guys like Daniels could be a GOLD mine for Rice with a coach like Jimbo... Former 5 star guys who maybe got injured and passed over while on the mend.... or who aren't getting the playing time to showcase their talents... who now might value the diploma or graduate degree and get to play most of their games against 3 and 4 star guys... not 5 star guys.... and we'd really only be asking them to BEAT teams that aren't solidly in the top 20....

and if he did that, he'd be writing himself back into the equation for 'the big boys'... OR, he could just be happy and content here with less pressure.

Ourland singled out Jimbo, not me.

Hatfield was a unique individual in a different time and situation. I don't see a lot of similarities between Ken and Jimbo/Saban/"current P5 HC of choice currently not meeting the donor-base expectations". Once these coaches have been benefited from unlimited NIL money to entice recruits, not sure they would even remember how to recruit the old-fashioned way.

I'd rather have a coach on his way up than one on his way down to retirement willing to "just be happy and content with less pressure". I completely agree with your points in your 4th and 5th paragraphs, but I don't believe it takes a former P5 HC to do this. Example - Bloomgren

(11-07-2023 11:46 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Ourland singled out Jimbo, not me.

I realize that... I was distancing myself from 'specifically' Jimbo... though he certainly has a lot of the qualities that would make him attractive to my thoughts here... especially in ways that some new, hot shot up-and-comer would not.

Quote:Hatfield was a unique individual in a different time and situation. I don't see a lot of similarities between Ken and Jimbo/Saban/"current P5 HC of choice currently not meeting the donor-base expectations". Once these coaches have been benefited from unlimited NIL money to entice recruits, not sure they would even remember how to recruit the old-fashioned way.

I would see an identical situation between Hat and Jimbo if A&M fires him... or any other 'big name' that is under-performing the expectations.

As for NIL, I don't disagree... but I'd still be recruiting differently from 'the old-fashioned way'. I think we need for someone like Jimbo to do precisely what Bloom did to get Daniels, Coco, McCaffery and others... to reach into his history of recruiting and uncover guys buried on depth charts/not living their 5 star dreams... and say rather than be a RS Sr or 4 yr graduate (or 5 with a hardship) sitting the bench, come start (and likely be a star) for me here in hopes of re-igniting your NFL dreams... and get an 'enhanced' diploma and/or a graduate degree from a great University in case that doesn't work out.

Quote:I'd rather have a coach on his way up than one on his way down to retirement willing to "just be happy and content with less pressure". I completely agree with your points in your 4th and 5th paragraphs, but I don't believe it takes a former P5 HC to do this. Example - Bloomgren

I think the evidence suggests that Bloomgren can't quite get us there. I'd be okay with someone else who could... but I really don't know how many guys someone without a great name can get in front of. Bloom's last non-Rice recruits are all graduating this year. He doesn't really have any/many similar guys on the shelf, I wouldn't think.

and once I got what I wanted... a name by being a top g5 program... if 'that guy' left, we'd perhaps have reached the point where other g5 stars and p5 bench guys see us as a top destination.... so the younger guy works

I have no idea if Coach Fisher is on the hot seat (or not) at TAMU. My memory of him at Florida State made me think that his coaching/culture style is is not a fit for a school like Rice. I remember reading a number of stories about Jameis Winston and his entitled behavior at FSU, and this paragraph from Wiikipedia gave me pause:

"A 2019 article in Bleacher Report detailed a number of problems with the culture of the FSU program under Fisher. According to former assistants, the players seemed to lose their drive after the 2013 national championship season. Additionally, Bleacher Report revealed that Florida State had the worst Academic Progress Rate score of any Power Five program, and was actually on the verge of an automatic postseason ban. Reportedly, Fisher had given his assistants a mandate to "keep players eligible" above all else; athletic director Dave Coburn conceded as much. Fisher's successor, Willie Taggart, was stunned at the apparent laissez-faire attitude toward academics when he arrived, and instituted immediate changes. Several former assistants from Fisher's tenure believed the casual attitude toward academics were part of a larger erosion of discipline that gradually led to a sense of entitlement."

Wikipedia is far from an unimpeachable source....and if stories are true...it doesn't mean that Fisher hasn't learned his lesson and corrected the cultural/academic issues (at TAMU) that plagued his later teams at FSU.

Nonetheless, I would not be too enthusiastic at the prospect of Coach Fisher moveing 96 miles South East to South Main Street any time soon.

After reading that, me neither. Next...

(11-07-2023 06:56 PM)Ourland Wrote:  After reading that, me neither. Next...

Agreed... but I sure would be interested in another coach with ties to recent 4 and 5 star recruits... even if they didn't ultimately sign with him. Until they change the portal rules, this is our reality.... and they probably will change them at some point... so we need to strike while the iron is hot.

If for some reason we don't get a new head coach (not my call) I STILL think we need to routinely 'sign' a player closely involved with the recruitment of 5 star players to 'big' teams... or like the coach whom the bench players at top 10 schools are all really close to.

I think Bloomgren's upside is limited by two things:

1) He is wdded to a strategic approach--PTR--that really doesn't fit the kinds of people that Rice can recruit. He has gotten away from that a bit with his latest OC, but still deep down he has to want to go there. It may have worked at Stanford, but the last 55 years or so of Stanford football--starting with Rose Bowl wins in 1971 and 1972--don't look anything like the last 55 years of Rice football, which means that they are recruiting in a different pool than Rice is.

2) Whatever hopes he had of recruiting any such people have been greatly hindered by his lack of deep Texas recruiting connections. In the past couple of years he has added some Texas presence to his staff, but is still in a tail chase to get established locally.

For those reasons I think 6 wins may be his absolute topside, particularly considering that the American is probably a stronger conference than what he has been competing in until this year. If that's good enough for Rice, so be it. The president and AD both seem to saying that it is not. We shall see.

(11-08-2023 10:41 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 06:56 PM)Ourland Wrote:  After reading that, me neither. Next...

Agreed... but I sure would be interested in another coach with ties to recent 4 and 5 star recruits... even if they didn't ultimately sign with him. Until they change the portal rules, this is our reality.... and they probably will change them at some point... so we need to strike while the iron is hot.

If for some reason we don't get a new head coach (not my call) I STILL think we need to routinely 'sign' a player closely involved with the recruitment of 5 star players to 'big' teams... or like the coach whom the bench players at top 10 schools are all really close to.

For sure. If Rice ever has a chance to hire a proven coach who has had it with the big time pressures of college football, it needs to grab him. The problem is that there typically aren't many coaches out there that fit that bill. If there are, they are probably in the twilight of their career, and have lost some of the 'steam' that made them great at one point or another.

(11-08-2023 11:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think Bloomgren's upside is limited by two things:

1) He is wdded to a strategic approach--PTR--that really doesn't fit the kinds of people that Rice can recruit. He has gotten away from that a bit with his latest OC, but still deep down he has to want to go there. It may have worked at Stanford, but the last 55 years or so of Stanford football--starting with Rose Bowl wins in 1971 and 1972--don't look anything like the last 55 years of Rice football, which means that they are recruiting in a different pool than Rice is.

2) Whatever hopes he had of recruiting any such people have been greatly hindered by his lack of deep Texas recruiting connections. In the past couple of years he has added some Texas presence to his staff, but is still in a tail chase to get established locally.

For those reasons I think 6 wins may be his absolute topside, particularly considering that the American is probably a stronger conference than what he has been competing in until this year. If that's good enough for Rice, so be it. The president and AD both seem to saying that it is not. We shall see.

Bloomgren was definitely wedded to PTR for too long. He made the change to a more 'open' offensive attack two seasons ago with Tui coming aboard, but it's too late. Maybe if he had 'evolved' a little earlier in his tenure, he could have had a couple of good seasons in CUSA that would've helped him avoid the his current predicament of 'win now or be replaced.'

As far as recruiting is concerned, I don't think he has done a particularly great job until last year with the top #75 class. From what I read, it is the best recruiting class, on paper, that Rice has ever signed. It blows me away that he was able to do it, being that his status as coach is so tenuous, but he did. Relagado probably had a big hand in it, and the move to The American helped a lot. I do have to give him credit for landing the extreme talents of McCaffrey and Daniels, but his OL prospects have done nothing. The bottom line is that Rice is a small private school that sits outside the college football power structure. It will always be imperative that its coaching staff has a special connection and presence within this state (Goldsmith and Bailiff), as Rice doesn't have the appeal of the big football farm universities here that recruit kids very easily.

If you get the chance, you should try to meet Marvin Nash. He is the new Director of Recruiting Operations/High School Relations. Marvin has been on the job since May 2023. He has coached HS football in Texas for the past 15 years. I got to spend some time at a luncheon with him before the season started and I really liked him and was impressed with his knowledge of Texas HS football and the coaches in the State.

It will be interesting to see what his focus on recruiting has been since the season started and how successful Rice has been in getting in the door on quality recruits from the Lone Star State.

My guess is he would be happy to grab a coffee and conversation with some of the Rice alumni/fan base and discuss how recruiting is going (in general).

(11-08-2023 11:59 AM)Kayjay Wrote:  If you get the chance, you should try to meet Marvin Nash. He is the new Director of Recruiting Operations/High School Relations. Marvin has been on the job since May 2023. He has coached HS football in Texas for the past 15 years. I got to spend some time at a luncheon with him before the season started and I really liked him and was impressed with his knowledge of Texas HS football and the coaches in the State.

It will be interesting to see what his focus on recruiting has been since the season started and how successful Rice has been in getting in the door on quality recruits from the Lone Star State.

My guess is he would be happy to grab a coffee and conversation with some of the Rice alumni/fan base and discuss how recruiting is going (in general).

Haven't heard of him. I hope he stays if Bloomgren goes, assuming that Mike is the one who brought him in.

(11-08-2023 11:59 AM)Kayjay Wrote:  If you get the chance, you should try to meet Marvin Nash. He is the new Director of Recruiting Operations/High School Relations. Marvin has been on the job since May 2023. He has coached HS football in Texas for the past 15 years. I got to spend some time at a luncheon with him before the season started and I really liked him and was impressed with his knowledge of Texas HS football and the coaches in the State.

It will be interesting to see what his focus on recruiting has been since the season started and how successful Rice has been in getting in the door on quality recruits from the Lone Star State.

My guess is he would be happy to grab a coffee and conversation with some of the Rice alumni/fan base and discuss how recruiting is going (in general).

We need a guy like that who mines the portal... but more who is connected to the recruiting at p5 schools... as I'm sure lots of them would be happy to get rid of 'bench players' and if they go, would prefer they go to a school that they probably wouldn't play much like us rather than a league opponent or top 10 rival.

That's what I meant when I said 'player'... of course I meant coach... but this is the role.

(11-08-2023 11:59 AM)Kayjay Wrote:  If you get the chance, you should try to meet Marvin Nash. He is the new Director of Recruiting Operations/High School Relations. Marvin has been on the job since May 2023. He has coached HS football in Texas for the past 15 years. I got to spend some time at a luncheon with him before the season started and I really liked him and was impressed with his knowledge of Texas HS football and the coaches in the State.
It will be interesting to see what his focus on recruiting has been since the season started and how successful Rice has been in getting in the door on quality recruits from the Lone Star State.
My guess is he would be happy to grab a coffee and conversation with some of the Rice alumni/fan base and discuss how recruiting is going (in general).

This is exactly the kind of person that Bloomgren should have hired in year one--and two or three of them, minimum. It's what Matt Rhule did with David Wetzel and Joey McGuire from his start at Baylor, and that paid great benefits for an outsider coming in. Better late than never, but I worry that it is too little, too late.