(09-12-2022 10:11 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  Why would elite recruits choose Alabama or Clemson? It has a lot to do with who the coach is.

Population base in the SE is very different than you get in NE. Two very different worlds, Lincoln cannot be an easy recruit for today's athletes who are not from the area.

(09-13-2022 11:38 AM)MU88 Wrote:  Nebraska used to have the best walk-on program in the country. The also had the best strength and conditioning program in the country. There was a 60 Minutes story about on their weightlifting program. Throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s, NU was a destination program for kids around the country. Unfortunately for them, they have lost the advantages that made them one of the best programs in the country.

A couple of things. Most of Nebraska's all-Americans are from .....? Nebraska. They have a few from Texas, California, and NJ. But, they also have some from Iowa and other midwest states. Nebraska has a lot of pluses. The fan base is among the best in the country. Its a good school with nice facilities. It has a history of success.

I think joining the Big 10 is major reason why NU (and Penn State) has fallen off the map. These schools went from being destination, marque schools, to being Minnesota or Illinois. The Big 10 used to be Michigan, Ohio State and a bunch of relative doormats. The Big 8 was Nebraska, OU and a bunch of doormats. As conferences expanded, these former power schools either got lumped with the doormats and/or if they were already in the conference, they fell back. Expansion has not been good for USC, Florida, Washington, Miami, Florida State, Texas, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, etc from an on-field performance aspect. However, the opposite is true for the former doormat schools in the power conferences, who now have access to more and more money, which allows them to compete with the other doormats, thereby creating a conference full of mediocre teams. A school like Nebraska lost its recruiting advantage over a school like Iowa. You don't see guys like Trev Alberts leaving Iowa to go to Nebraska. Maybe he goes to Ohio State or Alabama, but not Nebraska. As a result, these former power schools have become just another school in a big group of schools. They no longer are special and they never will be again. Yes, they can have nice runs. But does anyone think a Nebraska or a FSU is going to spend 20 years in the top 5-10 in this climate. So far, the only exceptions are probably Ohio State and Alabama, who have remained top dog or increased their profile. So, as Iowa State, Wisconsin, Oregon, etc have become more competitive, the domination of their competition by many former bluebloods has dropped (some significantly).

In their current situation, I think schools like Nebraska can be successful. But, success isn't going to be contending for national championships year in and year out. Success will be a windows of 2-3 years where they are competing for a playoff bid, with their other seasons hanging in the 10-30 range in the polls. I think the days of 10-12 schools being projected to be in the hunt for a national championship before the season are gone. We soon will be down to 2-3 with a legitimate chance and others being happy to make the playoff.

About the bolded, I don't think Penn State has fallen off the map. In the last six years, they have played in three NY6 bowls - Rose, Fiesta and Cotton - winning two of them. They are IMO still very much a national power on the field.

And even Nebraska hasn't fallen off the map in the broadest sense of brand recognition. I mean, the major sports media has been filled with talk about the Nebraska coaching situation, which isn't true of schools with negligible brand value.

(09-13-2022 10:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-13-2022 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-13-2022 08:48 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 03:21 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 03:03 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  what is the football-potential difference between Oklahoma and Nebraska, would you say?

Texas, probably.

There are 29 million people in Texas, and Oklahoma is much more like Texas than Nebraska. Endless miles of nothing look nothing like endless miles of corn. :)

Oklahoma has 4 million people. Nebraska is 2 million. That's a tiny pool comparatively speaking especially when you consider Texas is just next door.

I really believe the cultural changes to farming are a big reason for the change in Nebraska's fortunes along with Iowa as well.

This article from 1996 foresaw the end to powerhouse that was Nebraska football. Its not the farm boys from Nebraska that the program is lacking, its out of state Prop 48 kids-- many of highly questionable character (Lawrence Phillips, Christian Peter, etc.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1996/01/15/he...e-are-over

Yep. But acknowledging this would be to accept something no Huskers fan wants to believe. They still have expectations that are now completely unrealistic, and Tom Osborne isn't about to diminish his own legacy by owning up to the extent to which he was a beneficiary of the old rules.

If Nebraska fans are believing that they should be winning multiple national championships per decade, then I'd agree that unrealistic.

That being said, a program that has sold out every football game for the past 60 years straight with their type of history and recruiting classes shouldn't be going 5 straight years (going on 6) of not even contending for bowl eligibility. It would be one thing if Nebraska fans were still in the mode of when they fired Bo Pellini with a 9-win team - those were the days of unrealistic expectations. I don't think it would be the same now - mere competence and bowl eligibility isn't too much to ask for considering Nebraska's background.

It's pretty well known that the sellout streak is an embarrassing joke. There are some games where the Nebraska stadium doesn't even seem to be 75% full.

(09-13-2022 12:10 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(09-13-2022 10:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-13-2022 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-13-2022 08:48 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-12-2022 03:21 PM)Claw Wrote:  Texas, probably.

There are 29 million people in Texas, and Oklahoma is much more like Texas than Nebraska. Endless miles of nothing look nothing like endless miles of corn. :)

Oklahoma has 4 million people. Nebraska is 2 million. That's a tiny pool comparatively speaking especially when you consider Texas is just next door.

I really believe the cultural changes to farming are a big reason for the change in Nebraska's fortunes along with Iowa as well.

This article from 1996 foresaw the end to powerhouse that was Nebraska football. Its not the farm boys from Nebraska that the program is lacking, its out of state Prop 48 kids-- many of highly questionable character (Lawrence Phillips, Christian Peter, etc.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1996/01/15/he...e-are-over

Yep. But acknowledging this would be to accept something no Huskers fan wants to believe. They still have expectations that are now completely unrealistic, and Tom Osborne isn't about to diminish his own legacy by owning up to the extent to which he was a beneficiary of the old rules.

If Nebraska fans are believing that they should be winning multiple national championships per decade, then I'd agree that unrealistic.

That being said, a program that has sold out every football game for the past 60 years straight with their type of history and recruiting classes shouldn't be going 5 straight years (going on 6) of not even contending for bowl eligibility. It would be one thing if Nebraska fans were still in the mode of when they fired Bo Pellini with a 9-win team - those were the days of unrealistic expectations. I don't think it would be the same now - mere competence and bowl eligibility isn't too much to ask for considering Nebraska's background.

It's pretty well known that the sellout streak is an embarrassing joke. There are some games where the Nebraska stadium doesn't even seem to be 75% full.

They're sold even if they don't show up.

I think Frank's point stands. That does show a very high level of commitment, even if you are too embarrassed by the on-field product to actually go.

(09-13-2022 11:38 AM)MU88 Wrote:  Nebraska used to have the best walk-on program in the country. The also had the best strength and conditioning program in the country. There was a 60 Minutes story about on their weightlifting program. Throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s, NU was a destination program for kids around the country. Unfortunately for them, they have lost the advantages that made them one of the best programs in the country.

A couple of things. Most of Nebraska's all-Americans are from .....? Nebraska. They have a few from Texas, California, and NJ. But, they also have some from Iowa and other midwest states. Nebraska has a lot of pluses. The fan base is among the best in the country. Its a good school with nice facilities. It has a history of success.

I think joining the Big 10 is major reason why NU (and Penn State) has fallen off the map. These schools went from being destination, marque schools, to being Minnesota or Illinois. The Big 10 used to be Michigan, Ohio State and a bunch of relative doormats. The Big 8 was Nebraska, OU and a bunch of doormats. As conferences expanded, these former power schools either got lumped with the doormats and/or if they were already in the conference, they fell back. Expansion has not been good for USC, Florida, Washington, Miami, Florida State, Texas, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, etc from an on-field performance aspect. However, the opposite is true for the former doormat schools in the power conferences, who now have access to more and more money, which allows them to compete with the other doormats, thereby creating a conference full of mediocre teams. A school like Nebraska lost its recruiting advantage over a school like Iowa. You don't see guys like Trev Alberts leaving Iowa to go to Nebraska. Maybe he goes to Ohio State or Alabama, but not Nebraska. As a result, these former power schools have become just another school in a big group of schools. They no longer are special and they never will be again. Yes, they can have nice runs. But does anyone think a Nebraska or a FSU is going to spend 20 years in the top 5-10 in this climate. So far, the only exceptions are probably Ohio State and Alabama, who have remained top dog or increased their profile. So, as Iowa State, Wisconsin, Oregon, etc have become more competitive, the domination of their competition by many former bluebloods has dropped (some significantly).

In their current situation, I think schools like Nebraska can be successful. But, success isn't going to be contending for national championships year in and year out. Success will be a windows of 2-3 years where they are competing for a playoff bid, with their other seasons hanging in the 10-30 range in the polls. I think the days of 10-12 schools being projected to be in the hunt for a national championship before the season are gone. We soon will be down to 2-3 with a legitimate chance and others being happy to make the playoff.

So, if I'm reading you correctly, big media money - by lifting up mid-tier teams - is killing football?

Frost's biggest regret is not leaving UCF, he regrets not gutting the roster and trying to get QB McKenzie Milton to transfer. QB Dillon Gabriel only committed to UCF because of Milton.

Nebraska lead by Milton and Gabriel would have been a lot better than Adrian Martinez. He stuck with Martinez way too long.

(09-13-2022 10:01 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-13-2022 09:54 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(09-13-2022 09:15 AM)Just Joe Wrote:  I really don't get the whole "Nobody can win in Nebraska, why would kids go the Nebraska?" thing. Will Nebraska ever be the dominant force it was 30 years ago? Not likely, for various reasons that have been listed on this thread. But there's absolutely no reason they can't be an Iowa type of program, winning 8 or 9 games a year and occasionally going to Big Ten title games.

I think the issue is, though, that stakeholders within Nebraska won't accept that type of success. We on the outside think this is fine, but, who are we? Even at a place like Iowa, there are people who would be fine with moving on from Ferentz...even if he's probably their greatest coach, and has definitely made Iowa into a consistent competitor within the conference or division.

Is it reasonable to want to be like Alabama, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan, Clemson, USC, etc., really? Even if you are those guys? If it is, then why can't Nebraska also have that mindset?

And can we pump the brakes on how good Iowa has been a little. The Hawkeyes have three divisional titles in the past 20 years and a lot of 8-5 and 7-6 type seasons with a 10-3 here or there in between playing in the B10 West and formerly Legends. Once the conference goes to selecting the top two teams (ie OSU, Michigan, PSU) we will probably see even less of Iowa in the CCG.

Right, because there's the objective stats and then there's the context behind records and seasons. This is all underpinned against Iowa's overall program history, as well. I don't think you're wrong with this take. I don't my think my projection of Ferentz's success is, either. I would say, though, that for the time Ferentz has been there, Iowa is not often a team where others can pencil in the "W" easily. But, you can't confidently pencil Iowa's "W's," either, and that's especially frustrating in those seasons when they can reach 9-10 wins.

Regardless, we're demonstrating how divisive the mere comparison to Iowa this can be for Nebraska; applying context to Iowa's performances. Then again, we're also talking about Nebraska, who was playing in a Big 8 conference during UNL's best years where the majority of the schedule wasn't usually good for a fight.

(09-13-2022 11:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  About the bolded, I don't think Penn State has fallen off the map. In the last six years, they have played in three NY6 bowls - Rose, Fiesta and Cotton - winning two of them. They are IMO still very much a national power on the field.

Agreed, and count me as one who thinks PSU is doing what they can administratively to not retrace the worst of the Paterno/"football culture" era. PSU is still very much a football-first school. And they have remained competitive and successful. But, it's not to the extremes that the Paterno era provided.

I am curious what a new president and AD bring there, though. I don't think Franklin's there for much longer, and I don't know if the next coach is a similar sort to him.

Top three Nebraska coaching candidates are Matt Campbell, Lance Leipold & Bill O'Brien, according to Bruce Feldman.

(09-21-2022 07:42 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Top three Nebraska coaching candidates are Matt Campbell, Lance Leipold & Bill O'Brien, according to Bruce Feldman.

Campbell would be an absolute home run. I'd say the other are solid doubles.

(09-21-2022 07:21 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 07:42 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Top three Nebraska coaching candidates are Matt Campbell, Lance Leipold & Bill O'Brien, according to Bruce Feldman.

Campbell would be an absolute home run. I'd say the other are solid doubles.

Out of that group, I like Lance Leipold, believe it or not. Leipold knows how to work with practically a bare cupboard. Not sure Campbell knows how to do that. No confidence in Bill O'Brien whatsoever

(09-21-2022 07:31 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 07:21 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 07:42 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Top three Nebraska coaching candidates are Matt Campbell, Lance Leipold & Bill O'Brien, according to Bruce Feldman.

Campbell would be an absolute home run. I'd say the other are solid doubles.

Out of that group, I like Lance Leipold, believe it or not. Leipold knows how to work with practically a bare cupboard. Not sure Campbell knows how to do that. No confidence in Bill O'Brien whatsoever

ISU won 7 games in the three seasons before Campbell got there. They were only slightly better than Kansas. Took him one season to have them playing winning football. First time they've had 5 straight winning seasons since the 20's. Like the 1920's. He's by far the best candidate.

BOB would be decent. He'd have them winning 9 games at least but I'm not sure thats good enough.

Campbell would be the best choice, especially since he's already coaching in the area. Leipold would be a good choice too, but he has a much shorter track record at the Power 5 level than Campbell does.

(09-21-2022 07:41 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 07:31 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 07:21 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 07:42 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Top three Nebraska coaching candidates are Matt Campbell, Lance Leipold & Bill O'Brien, according to Bruce Feldman.

Campbell would be an absolute home run. I'd say the other are solid doubles.

Out of that group, I like Lance Leipold, believe it or not. Leipold knows how to work with practically a bare cupboard. Not sure Campbell knows how to do that. No confidence in Bill O'Brien whatsoever

ISU won 7 games in the three seasons before Campbell got there. They were only slightly better than Kansas. Took him one season to have them playing winning football. First time they've had 5 straight winning seasons since the 20's. Like the 1920's. He's by far the best candidate.

BOB would be decent. He'd have them winning 9 games at least but I'm not sure thats good enough.

Either Matt Campbell or Lance Leipold would be great hires for Nebraska. Campbell is a few years ahead of Leipold in the building process, and ISU was never as far in the dumps as KU was. ISU was bad, but KU was a nuclear waste dump.

Both are builders. Campbell may realize he's done as much with ISU as he can. Leipold is 3-0 at Kansas, including 2 wins over serviceable teams. After their last decade, that's incredible. He'll probably take KU to a bowl game this year. More importantly, he speeds up the timeline on renovation of their stadium and places them in a better position for realignment.

I live in Houston, so I watched Bill O'Brien coach the Texans. Not a fan. However, he kept Penn State afloat after the Sandusky scandal. That earns points from me.

As long as the next Nebraska coach treats people well, he's not getting fired for going 9-3 every year. After the last several years, they'll give him a raise for going 9-3.

As an Alabama fan, I would love to see O'Brien get the Nebraska job.