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George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
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jimrtex Online
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Post: #61
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-06-2022 12:22 AM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-05-2022 09:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Where the hell would GW play football? Very little land in DC

I was surprised they found spot for a soccer pitch when I went their the first time.
They wouldn't need much of a stadium or parking.

NCAA ought to add Rugby 7s. It is both male and female, and the squad size is reasonably small. Probably around 15 to 20 players. It is physical without the need for gladiator equipment and more fluid than football, and easy enough to understand. It is also an Olympic sport.
09-06-2022 07:43 AM
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CenterSquarEd Offline
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Post: #62
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-06-2022 07:02 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-06-2022 12:53 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(09-06-2022 12:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The A-10 already has Mason in the DC market. If GW left they wouldn't be missed. Not like they're Georgetown, which really commands a market share.

As a side note, anyone notice that all DC area D-I schools are named "George" something? Almost redundant.

And if they’re not George, they’re the American Eagles.

Or the Catholic Cardinals*. Or the Howard Bison. Or the Maryland Terps.


* formerly D1, but have you read David’s plan for them?

Well, the Terrapins are also George because "Terra" and "Geo" both refer to the Earth in Greek.

And clearly all eagles and bison should be called George.

Can't help you with the D3 schools, lol.
09-06-2022 08:01 AM
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JonP Offline
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Post: #63
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-05-2022 11:17 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  The A-10 takes teams who control/dominate their mid-major leagues and or goes far in the dance while having A-10 infrastructure (Richmond, Butler, VCU, George Mason, Davidson, Loyola).

C of C could be that team, they just need to go to like, 3 NCAAs in 5 years.

This dawned on me the other day and it's really astonishing to think about: Every A-10 addition in the last decade made an Elite Eight run before being invited, with four of them going to the Final Four.
09-06-2022 09:08 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #64
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
Count me as one of those who is out on CoC. As in, I'm over their potential. Definitely remember them in the 90's...but, 2018 aside, near crickets since.

But, I don't disagree they bear a resemblance to an A10-type. Then again, I feel/felt that way about Vermont, Stony Brook, Albany, Delaware, and even FGCU. Public schools with hoops-focus (sans football) or the potential to be.

At this point, if they ever wanted another southern school, and keep the public/private thing in mind, go with one of the UNC's...Wilmington or Greensboro.
09-06-2022 09:15 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #65
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-06-2022 08:01 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  
(09-06-2022 07:02 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(09-06-2022 12:53 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(09-06-2022 12:10 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The A-10 already has Mason in the DC market. If GW left they wouldn't be missed. Not like they're Georgetown, which really commands a market share.

As a side note, anyone notice that all DC area D-I schools are named "George" something? Almost redundant.

And if they’re not George, they’re the American Eagles.

Or the Catholic Cardinals*. Or the Howard Bison. Or the Maryland Terps.


* formerly D1, but have you read David’s plan for them?

Well, the Terrapins are also George because "Terra" and "Geo" both refer to the Earth in Greek.

And clearly all eagles and bison should be called George.

Can't help you with the D3 schools, lol.

Don’t forget the UDC Firebirds, the Trinity Washington Tigers, and the Gallaudet Bison. Yes, there’s two schools with the Bison nickname in DC.
09-06-2022 09:41 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #66
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-06-2022 09:15 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Count me as one of those who is out on CoC. As in, I'm over their potential. Definitely remember them in the 90's...but, 2018 aside, near crickets since.

But, I don't disagree they bear a resemblance to an A10-type. Then again, I feel/felt that way about Vermont, Stony Brook, Albany, Delaware, and even FGCU. Public schools with hoops-focus (sans football) or the potential to be.

At this point, if they ever wanted another southern school, and keep the public/private thing in mind, go with one of the UNC's...Wilmington or Greensboro.

But not Asheville?
09-06-2022 11:11 AM
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maybeimhere Online
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Post: #67
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-05-2022 12:07 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Does DavidSt have obscure sites like this bookmarked under folders for all 365+ D1 teams?

Dude he used a yarbarker blog that sourced its "news" from a random website registered a week before for another break.
09-06-2022 11:28 AM
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ZooMass84 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-05-2022 08:43 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The streets are wet. It's raining. Thus, wet streets must cause rain.

Was that on the LSAT?
09-06-2022 11:42 AM
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PeteTheChop Online
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Post: #69
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-05-2022 11:40 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I never really considered GW and the Patriot League.

GW is totally between the A-10 and the Patriot League. The A-10 is about "basketball first, basketball at a high level"; and the Patriot League is about "lots of sports, we're a 'Little Ivy,' all competing nobly for the league trophy."

And I have always assumed that GW was an A-10 program, not a PL program. But they have 22 sports and are spread too thin. And that's why they aren't having basketball success in a long time.

With Fordham, it's obvious... they're a Patriot League model; and they owned the Patriot League in the late 80s/early 90s, so the A-10 invited them. But they have a bigger athletics budget than Dayton and suck at basketball. They need to either slash their sports menu and devote their resources to being good at basketball, or go back to the Patriot.

I never thought of GW in the same way, but they're closer to Fordham than Dayton.


To me, it's about identity and effort. I'm not mad at a school that sucks. I don't want all the schools doing poorly out of my league (that's folly, because there was a stretch where my team was terrible).

But it's a brotherhood, and we need to be on the same page so that when one of us is trash, we're still making every effort to keep our brothers alive. And that's where scheduling comes in. You don't have to be great, you just have to "GET IT." Get what we're doing and play the team game.

Duquesne is freaking great. Duquesne "GETS IT." Duquense a couple years back was 5-13 in A-10 play and finished 15-15 overall. THAT is exactly what we need. Duquesne knew they'd be terrible, so they played MEAC and NEC schools, bottom of AmEast and CAA schools, and just tried to win as many OOC games as possible. THAT is how it's done!


I think the A-10 is better with GW in the league, because the DC market is big and a presence there is vital. But you gotta play your role every year. Take turns being up and contenders, or down and out of the picture. But when you're down, you've gotta win 9+ OOC games to help the league. And too many A-10 teams don't do that.

The A-10 has been too nice to schools not pulling on the same rope. If you want to focus on having the best basketball programs you can, that's why we exist; If you wanna do the "Well rounded athletic department" thing, the Patriot and MAAC are over there.

Bravo ... one of the best-written, most concise posts I've seen on this site!

Didn't know about Fordham's and GW's (over)commitment to a wide-ranging athletic program vs. a streamlined "basketball first" operation at a few other A-10 athletic departments. Fascinating.

Few questions for you JSchmack:

1. Do you see anybody in the A-10 or its office "encouraging" its member schools to, collectively, establish a baseline for spending and commitment to basketball, especially with March Madness really being the only "pot of gold" available for non-FBS schools? Or is the commissioner specifically content to let schools put as much or as little into basketball as their hearts see fit? And ... is it safe to say Saint Louis and Dayton could not care less how much other A-10 schools devote on basketball because both (realistic or not) have one eye focused on getting to the Big East?

2. Might've missed you spelling this out, but would this in your view be the "ideal" and most suitable A-10 going forward?

1. Davidson
2. Dayton
3. Duquesne
4. George Mason
5. GWU
6. Loyola
7. URI
8. Richmond
9. St. Bonaventure
10. St. Joe's
11. Saint Louis
12. VCU
13/ADD: Belmont
OUT: Fordham (return to Patriot League)
OUT: La Salle (return to the Metro Atlantic)
OUT: UMass (return to G5 all-sports league)
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2022 12:59 PM by PeteTheChop.)
09-06-2022 12:56 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #70
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-06-2022 11:11 AM)whittx Wrote:  But not Asheville?

It's definitely nothing against the program or place (though its arena is something only a little over 3K?). I think the perceived pecking order has them behind those other two. Yet, Davidson might have an issue with any of them.
09-06-2022 12:59 PM
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b2b Offline
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Post: #71
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-05-2022 08:43 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The streets are wet. It's raining. Thus, wet streets must cause rain.

03-lmfao +1
09-06-2022 01:06 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #72
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-06-2022 06:55 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(09-05-2022 10:40 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(09-05-2022 08:56 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

Dayton and Saint Louis tagging along with the Zags to the Big East would solve 2/3 of that "problem"

07-coffee3

I think that's what those three schools try to do. They just lobby like heck to join another conference. Once it becomes a real issue, though, I mean. But, SLU's already doing that with that whole "major announcement" for the practice facility and the cringey Joe Buck-narrated video.

I would be shocked if someone took themselves out and down of the A10. Not that some shouldn't just go (La Salle, Fordham, Duquesne especially). The only ways out are moving up or getting kicked out. That won't be happening...especially to G-Dubs, should they decide not to invest in NIL or overall operations like the others in the conference.

Fixed, although didn't La Salle recently go to a Sweet 16? That's better than most of the A-10 recently. That should give them a pass for another generation.
09-06-2022 04:47 PM
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DFW HOYA Online
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Post: #73
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
A lot of these comments are based on a single, unplanned comment by an interim president at George Washington. That said, there are storm clouds ahead.

GW has been in a period of retrenchment for a wile. A major institutional effort to overtake Georgetown in the 1990's fell short, it was put on notice by US News for false numbers on admissions, and American is now at its heels. The GW admit rate is up to 50% compared to 38% at American and 12% at Georgetown. Its most recent president was forced out of his job for proposing a cut in undergraduate programs to support STEM and a faculty vote of no-confidence soon followed. The faculty wants more, of course, and less work to do it.

Athletically, GW used to be considered among the "big 3" universities in the area DC with Maryland and Georgetown. Of late, GW has been to one men's basketball NCAA tournament since 2007, and attendance dipped to just 1,120 a game last season. Its arena is almost 50 years old. GW hasn't been a rah-rah school since it dropped football in 1966 and most students don't go there for community building, but to get a job in or around the government. This past year, the students forced the school to announce it is dropping the Colonials nickname because students confuse it with "Colonists". (Really.)

GW is less Georgetown and more like NYU: an big urban campus of students that come and go for jobs in the city. Is the NYU athletic model (anonymity in Div. III) comparable for GW, or is it Boston University, equally large and anonymous, who play in the Patriot League? Or does GW go all-in on a Temple model, asserting itself as a downtown school with big time sports, where no such visibility now exists in a $27 million athletic department?

The new president has a lot on his/her plate, and won't be there for at least 12-18 months. The interim will likely leave it for the next one.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2022 05:25 PM by DFW HOYA.)
09-06-2022 05:20 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #74
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-06-2022 12:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(09-06-2022 11:11 AM)whittx Wrote:  But not Asheville?

It's definitely nothing against the program or place (though its arena is something only a little over 3K?). I think the perceived pecking order has them behind those other two. Yet, Davidson might have an issue with any of them.

They'd have more of an issue with Winthrop. Wouldn't want a second Charlotte school in the A-10.
09-06-2022 06:00 PM
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Post: #75
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
(09-05-2022 11:17 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-05-2022 07:58 PM)whittx Wrote:  C of Charleston gets it running and they would be equally viable.

That's the thing... "Gets it running"

Anyone without football who isn't past the Mississippi River and "gets it running" can join the A-10. (And Gonzaga is welcome anytime).

I know my Bonnies would love playing in Charleston again. :D

The A-10 takes teams who control/dominate their mid-major leagues and or goes far in the dance while having A-10 infrastructure (Richmond, Butler, VCU, George Mason, Davidson, Loyola).

C of C could be that team, they just need to go to like, 3 NCAAs in 5 years.

C of C does fit into the urban campus mold of many A-10 schools based on campus location (Downtown Charleston)
09-06-2022 06:03 PM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #76
RE: George Washington To Move To Lower Level League?
The lower league makes sense unless they add FBS football.
Then they fill a gap in the ACC adding TV viewers so ACC is likely.
09-08-2022 09:39 AM
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